The two-handed forehand.
- Thread starter jarko111
- Start date
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
At least 2 different ways of hitting 2-handed on the FH side. Some players who hit primarily double-handed on both sides will keep the same hand on the top on both the BH and FH sides. Fabrice Santoro, "The Magician", did it this way. As a result, his arms were more-or-less crossed on his FH side. Other players, like the great Pancho Segura would change the relative positions of the hand for each side. Left hand on top for his BH side but right hand hand on top for his FH side. So it looked like conventional 2-handed BHs on both wings.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
MajesticMoose
Hall of Fame
This is what you look like trying to hit a 2 handed forehand. Maybe fun to goof around a bit, but not a real option.
100% agree with your post along with the 3 wheeled car. That's pretty much what it looks like.
That's what they said about the 2 handed backhand back in the day. World's ugliest stroke, no reach, just for kids, etc. That's one reason reading old tennis instruction books is so much fun. They warn you against mistakes like the western forehand grip, hitting with an open stance, etc.
Bobs tennis
Semi-Pro
Its never right until you win using something not mainstream then you'll see it all over. Didn't Bartolli win using 2 handed forehand and I don't think she changed grips
DoctorBackhand
Rookie
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/official-2-handed-forehand-thread.410099/
I haven't updated this thread in forever, and there have been a few new threads created since this one died, but it's still the most comprehensive source on the 2 handed forehand that I've seen on the internet.
To answer your question, most people (in the pros and on the forums) keep their bottom hand in a forehand position (usually a Semi-western grip) and the top hand in continental grip. The technique is similar to a normal forehand, but requires a greater shoulder turn to generate power.
Two handed forehands can have a variety of techniques depending on the user. Some are very wristy, others aren't. Some are extremely flat, others loopy. There are some like Hradecka that pelt the shot, and others like Santoro that rely more on finesse. Like any shot in tennis, its effectiveness depends on the ability of the user to leverage its strengths while minimizing its weaknesses.
I haven't updated this thread in forever, and there have been a few new threads created since this one died, but it's still the most comprehensive source on the 2 handed forehand that I've seen on the internet.
To answer your question, most people (in the pros and on the forums) keep their bottom hand in a forehand position (usually a Semi-western grip) and the top hand in continental grip. The technique is similar to a normal forehand, but requires a greater shoulder turn to generate power.
Two handed forehands can have a variety of techniques depending on the user. Some are very wristy, others aren't. Some are extremely flat, others loopy. There are some like Hradecka that pelt the shot, and others like Santoro that rely more on finesse. Like any shot in tennis, its effectiveness depends on the ability of the user to leverage its strengths while minimizing its weaknesses.
Thermoally
New User
I think 2 handed forehand is a good option for a recreation player.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
I play two handed forehand and I win everything.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
^ Of course you do Gregory. We've heard it before -- quite a few tines. When are you going to start competing against higher level players instead of players who you beat all the time?
It can be a decent option. It has been used by some high level collegiate players as well as some world class players. But I don't see it as the NEW modern FH (as GD seems to think).
I have taught the 2-handed FH to some of my novice students. It is one way to get a player to use adequate & properly-timed body rotation (uncoiling) like they do on their 2-handed BH. Some players ARM their FH stroke rather than use proper body uncoiling.
The 2-handed FH is one way to correct this. However, most players who learn a 2-handed FH usually outgrow it in a short time (usually a couple of months at most). But a few stay with it -- as seen with some current WTA players.
.
It can be a decent option. It has been used by some high level collegiate players as well as some world class players. But I don't see it as the NEW modern FH (as GD seems to think).
I have taught the 2-handed FH to some of my novice students. It is one way to get a player to use adequate & properly-timed body rotation (uncoiling) like they do on their 2-handed BH. Some players ARM their FH stroke rather than use proper body uncoiling.
The 2-handed FH is one way to correct this. However, most players who learn a 2-handed FH usually outgrow it in a short time (usually a couple of months at most). But a few stay with it -- as seen with some current WTA players.
.
Gregory Diamond
Professional
It is not easy to find better. I am #3 in Polish ranking in my category and those who are in the first and second place play almost only outside Poland.
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
old school:
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
lol, and which "category" is that...
these 3 appear to be the top 3 polish players...
1. Hurkacz
2. Majchrzak
3. Janowicz
Perhaps you're tied with Jerzy? if so, you're pretty good!
where do the other #1 and #2 players play (in your category)?
Gregory Diamond
Professional
I beat Janowicz many times( his father) He was a volleyball player and when he finished his career he began to play tennis. I was then one of the best amateur players in Łódź. 1987-1989 It was during that period. Now if you can add you can calculate in what category I play.
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
hehe, nice.
now we have to see a 2good4u v GD showdown.
Thermoally
New User
There are many factors for a new skill to join in a mainstream for its field. It is not easy for a new skill to be common in the sports of tradition and having a long history. But the technic is rapidly changing in tennis in skill and gear. Who does venture to say 2 handed forehand has already failed in tennis? 2HF has not been tried enough and studied deeply yet.
2HF has many shortcomings to overcome but it has also strength like or beyond 2HB which is widely used by pro player.
Last edited:
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
I suspect that the 2-handed Fh, both flavors (crossed & uncrossed), have been around for more than a century — at least in the rec & amateur ranks. Back in the 1940s and 50s, Pancho Segura’s 2-hander was considered by Jack Kramer and many others to be “the greatest single shot ever produced in tennis” back in the day.
Poncho S was the #1 player on the planet for part of this era. Monica Seles was a #1 WTA player (with a double-handed Fh) in the 1990s. Marion Bartoli won the big W in 2013. Despite these successes, the Fh with 2 hands never inspired many tennis players to embrace and adopt it.
Not so with the 2-handed Bh. It was still a novelty in the 60s and 70s when the #1 players, Connors & Evert, started to make it respectable. With Agassi and his gen, this version of the Bh started to become the de facto standard. Despite the modern day adoption of this stroke, for most (not all) players, their 1-handed Fh is still their stronger side.
What makes anyone think the 2-handed version of the Fh is going to be any more of a weapon than the 2-handed Bh (much less the 1-handed Fh)?
A right-handed batter in baseball and in cricket is hitting what we could regard as 2-handed forehand (uncrossed). Despite its dominance in these sports and its long history in tennis, it has never been considered a viable option for most competitive (or elite) tennis players.
.
Last edited:
Dragy
G.O.A.T.
You mentioned couple of times how younger players with inferior technique beat themselves and cannot stand against 2hfh. What inhibits you from playing 50+? 45+? I can underastand your unwillingness to invest more time and money to get into more competitive 55+ environment than where you play now, but aren't you curious if your claims and level of play can really keep against better competition?
Dragy
G.O.A.T.
Is there any spin in BB batting? I come from the Europe and Asia nothern intercrossing...
Gregory Diamond
Professional
Last year I played most tournaments in +50 category and in July for some time was #2 in Polish ranking in +50 category and had chance for first position. It depended on result of my match with #1 in the final of one tournament. I was in the lead 6:0 1:0 and lost scecond set and supertiebreak. This year in the final of ITF tournament I also was in the lead 6:0 1:0 and lost. Next time when I win the first set 6:0 I`ll give the first game of the second set to my opponent to avoid result 6:0 1:0. When you win 7 games in a row it is natural to think that the match is over. You try to change your game to end the match earlier and it is a chance for your opponent. I hope that next time I`ll be wiser.
Last edited:
Thermoally
New User
nado olaesdong-an yangson pohaendeuwa baeghaendeuleul gusahajiman eoneu nuguhantedo jo-eon-eul guhal su eobs-eossda. lekeulieisyeon seonsu-in naneun geugeos-i jeolsilhaji anhjiman polo seonsuegeneun
I've been playing forehands and backhands for a long time, but I could not get any advice from anyone. As a recreation player, I do not deserve it, but it is not for a captive player. As
I've been playing 2 handed forehand and backhand for a long time, but I could not get any advice from anyone. As a recreation player, I am ok with it. but it is not for a professional player. As you said, some global players have been successful with 2 handed forehand, but they would have had to go through a lot of trial and error processions. If I'm a professional player, I do not accept it, and lesson coaches do not recommend a 2 handed forehand like you. I think this is the biggest reason why a player who plays both hands forehand is rare.
In order for the two-handed forehand technology to develop, more accumulation of knowledge is needed than anything else.
I've been playing 2 handed forehand and backhand for a long time, but I could not get any advices from anyone. As a receation player, I am ok with it, but it is not for a professional player. As you said, some global players have been successful with 2 handed forehand, but they would have had to go through a lot of trial and error processions. If I'm a professional player, I do not accept it, and lesson coaches do not recommend a 2 handed forehand like you. I think this is the biggest reason why a player who plays both hands forehand is rare.
In order for the two-handed forehand technology to develop, more accumulation of knowledge is needed than anything else.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Don’t know about cricket batting in this regards. In cricket bowling (pitching), various spin types are employed to a very high degree. Same thing for pitching in BB.
However, in BB batting the spin on the ball is fairly moderate. Difficult to impart a massive amt of spin on a round (spherical) ball with a round (cylindrical) bat. Nonetheless, spin is used. On home run balls (and other deep, long balls), underspin is imparted to the ball the ball to aid in its lift so that it travels further. Same thing is done for many golf strokes.
Golf is another sport where a 2-handed forehand stroke is utilized. When putting in golf, the ball has topspin (since it is rolling forward on the ground). Many shots (drives and ground balls) in BB batting are either hit fairly flat or with some moderate topspin.
2 hands are also utilized, on both sides, in lacrosse, hockey and field hockey.
Last edited:
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Since the 2-handed forehand has been around such a very long time in tennis, there is already a considerable amount of knowledge on the subject. Many very young players adopt this type of of Fh when they are learning the game. Fairly certain that this is the reason that Segura, Seles, Bartoli, Peng Shuai, Fabrice Santoro, and other elite players develop this type of Fh in the first place.
However, most young players eventually drop the 2-handed Fh in favor of the more versatile and more powerful 1-handed Fh. I would not be surprised if I learned that some of the players players with the best FHs in tennis started out with a 2-handed Fh in their youth but then switched to the 1-handed Fh as they got a little bit older.
And yes, the 1-handed version tends to generate more RHS (for greater ball speed and spin) than the 2-handed stroke. That is because the racket is gripped lower on the handle and can attain higher racket head speeds (RHS). When the second hand is added to the grip, the maximum racket speed is limited somewhat because of the (effectively) shorter grip. (But there are some players who can generate high ball speeds with their 2-handed BHs). With 2 hands on the racket, it can usually be placed into position a bit quicker, but its top speed becomes more limited. The study of physics reveals why this is so.
2 hands are utilized in baseball & cricket because the bats are much heavier and have much greater swingweights (moment of inertia) than tennis rackets. The swingweight (MOI) of a golf club is also greater than the SW of a tennis racket since they are so much longer.
With BHs, we see that greater spins are possible with the 1-handed strokes than with the 2-handed strokes. Spin studies in the 90s reveal this. I believe than spin studies on Yandell’s site show the same thing for more modern players as well. Pretty certain that it has been found that Federer can put as much spin on his 1-handed Bh as Nadal puts on his Fh.
A considerable mount of knowledge is already known about hitting 2-handed FHs in golf, baseball, cricket, hockey & lacrosse.
.
Last edited:
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
I used to hit a 2hfh pancho style like 30 years ago for a few months. Recently i tried it again and after a min it started clicking but its the tennis equivalent of constipation:This is what you look like trying to hit a 2 handed forehand. Maybe fun to goof around a bit, but not a real option.
Thermoally
New User
Spin and racket speed are important factors. But I think you already know that they are not all. Consider Federer's one hand BH and Nadal's two hands BH, for example. Federer's BH, which has a high RPM, could not be able to claim to be better. I do not claim that 2 HF is superior to 1 HF. 2 HF technology is also believed to be a good alternative if the elements are optimized (including racquets).
Last edited:
Thermoally
New User
Seeing you try 2HF again, I think you must be a tennis lover. I want to appreciate you who is different from the person ridiculing 2 HF, not even trying.
But I think it takes more time and effort to know the true value of 2 FH, because nobody can tell it from the side and you have to find the answer by yourself.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Is this Gregory Diamond with a second account or a multiple personality disorder?
Gregory Diamond
Professional
The great battle between the best one handed forehand in older categories in Poland and the best two handed forehand in all categories. Champion of Poland in +50 category from 2017 and Runner-up in +55 category from the same year.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah i will try pretty much anything. I spent about 10 min hitting that fh and the only value I could see was that it forces a good unit turn.
Otherwise it didnt offer any benefits that I could see and had some huge drawbacks. Its lack of reach was a big challenge. I though it would offer more pace but it didnt seem to offer any more than my reg fh. Def lacked spin which perhaps thats why it didnt get the power levels I thought it should.
Ros would be a disaster with two hands for me unless i used a 2hbh as well and didnt change hands. Which imho would mean that one side had an unatural grip where one arm limits reach significantly
What benefits are you finding?
Thermoally
New User
I'm not Gregory Diamond and I do not know who he is. ^^. I am a recreation player who mainly plays double games in a tennis clup twice a week. I have been recording the game to analyze and fix my tennis skills(see bellow link to my recent match video) because I do not have a coach to advise me, as I said. I am not a high level player but have studied two handed tennis skills(stoke and volley) for several years. It was from my little experience that I told that 2 HF can be a good choice for a recreation player. I am sorry if my writing has upset you.
Last edited:
Thermoally
New User
The advantages of two handed strokes are as follows, I think.
- By using bodycore Symetrically reduces the risk of injury and comforts the body.
- Stable return.
- Enables attacks in various directions.
- It is difficult for the other person to grasp my intention.
- easy to make topspin lob.
- power under control.
- Makes a good kinetic chain.
- Power is reinforced.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
I can see the 1st one. Its a def advantage if you use two hands off both sides. But the rest you can get with a onehanded shot.
Nice hitting btw.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Upset me... Huh?
Just gotta say that your response to @Shroud (post #29) came off sounding a lot like GD. And who is it that you are referring to when you mention “the person ridiculing 2 HF”?
Gregory Diamond
Professional
Now I remember. I watched your videos about year ago. I was looking for anything about two handed forehand on youtube because I was changing my old two handed forehand for new with crossed hands. I see that you try to play two handed forehand in the same way as two handed backhand. In your two handed forehand your right hand is dominant(you seem to be left handed). In my two handed forehand my right hand does almost all work. My two handed forehand is similar to one handed forehand. Usually my left hand is very loose. It is used mainly to take the racket back and precisely lead the racket at the ball. But when I try to block fast balls or try to rotate fast balls approaching me then I use left hand more. It looks the same but it is a completely different stroke.
Thermoally
New User
The person I am talking about is a person who compared 2 HF with a car having three wheels. I wonder how much he or she understand and experience 2 HF.
Last edited:
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Would not take offense at that. I actually thought that comparison to the 3-wheeled was rather amusing. The cross-handed version of the 2hFh (Fabrice Santoro & Monica Seles) does look rather odd... like that car. I much prefer the uncrossed version.
Thermoally
New User
I also take the comparison as funny and amusing one like U. But I am saying a difference between just ridiculing the weired car and trying to drive it. Who does know if that kind of car will look like this: ^^
Last edited:
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
I also take the comparison as funny and amusing one like U. But I am saying a difference between just ridiculing the weired car and trying to drive it. Who does know if that kind of car will look like this: ^^
Now that vehicle looks a lot cooler/sexier. This is more like a Roger Federer or Richard Gasquet 1-handed backhand.
Thermoally
New User
^^ I can not refute. So it really looks like Federer BH. You win. ^^
Thermoally
New User
I recently have met on the line with four recreation players who stroke with both hands. Surprisingly, they all have different forms mainly in back swing.
In grips, only one of them puts his dominant hand over the other hand as I do. In this case, hands overlap when doing backhand stroke, and in other case hands are crossed when forehand stroke. Players of the latter case seem to have more difficulty in overlapping hands. I think it is because the dominant hand is interrupted by the other weak hand. It may be a reason you to make the left hand loose in forehand stroke.
Last edited:
Gregory Diamond
Professional
I can play two handed forehand both with dominant right hand (what I usually do when approaching ball is not too fast) and with dominant left hand(if the ball is fast). You can see in videos that Bartoli, Kucova and Hradecka dont use left forefinger to hold the racket. Right hand is dominant. Peng Shuai uses all fingers of left hand but at the end left hand almost doesnt hold the racket so right hand is dominant too.
Thermoally
New User
I think you could become a high level player by wisely overcoming the disadvantages of 2 HF in your own way as the pro-player mentioned. I will introduce the guys I know your YouTube channel and let them get some hints from your skill. Of course I will visit your channel frequently. ^^.
Last edited:
