The two remarkable 12 months of Andy Murray's career

[Deleted member 77403]

Not at all. The tennis community regards his 2011 season as a masterclass of tennis.

I speak about everything from 2014 and beyond.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Agreed. The major titles are worth more and are "must-win" titles.

The OSG and WTF are important titles, and are nice to have, but NOBODY should take one over rounding out the Career Grand Slam.

But according to you the AO isn't a prestigious tournament anyway so surely Andy only needs to win RG to complete the Career Slam, no?

 

[FrontHeadlock]

But according to you the AO isn't a prestigious tournament anyway so surely Andy only needs to win RG to complete the Career Slam, no?

Reading comp issues?

The AO is leaps and bounds more prestigious for a pro tennis player than an OSG or WTF. The AO is a must-win if you want to be GOAT or in the conversation.

That said, it's also clearly the least prestigious of the 4 majors. If I had only 1 major to win, the AO would be my last choice. And If I could only win 3 of the 4 majors, I'd exclude the AO no question. I also think that, since the USO is also on hard courts, lacking an AO title is ameliorated by the fact that you still have a hard court major.

Truthfully the greatest value the AO has is in completing a career grand slam (or some multiple thereof). Once someone got to 2 AO titles, I can't understand why they wouldn't just take more of the other 3 majors, at least in an abstract conceptual sense.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Reading comp issues?

The AO is leaps and bounds more prestigious for a pro tennis player than an OSG or WTF. The AO is a must-win if you want to be GOAT or in the conversation.

That said, it's also clearly the least prestigious of the 4 majors. If I had only 1 major to win, the AO would be my last choice. And If I could only win 3 of the 4 majors, I'd exclude the AO no question. I also think that, since the USO is also on hard courts, lacking an AO title is ameliorated by the fact that you still have a hard court major.

Truthfully the greatest value the AO has is in completing a career grand slam (or some multiple thereof). Once someone got to 2 AO titles, I can't understand why they wouldn't just take more of the other 3 majors, at least in an abstract conceptual sense.

What's it like to still be living in the 1980s?

 

[FrontHeadlock]

What's it like to still be living in the 1980s?

I mean, there always has to be an Australian Open or a PGA Championship. It doesn't mean players don't want to win them.

But as a huge Agassi fan, I'd trade 3 of his AO titles for any combination of the other 3 majors.

 

[Djokovic2011]

I mean, there always has to be an Australian Open or a PGA Championship. It doesn't mean players don't want to win them.

But as a huge Agassi fan, I'd trade 3 of his AO titles for any combination of the other 3 majors.

I wouldn't trade Djokovic's 6 Aussie Opens for all the tea in China. IMO winning a HC major(the surface which has the toughest competition), especially the one played at the beginning of the year when all the players are fresh and raring to go, means more than holding up the trophy at any of the other three slams so taking that into account, prestige really means very little in the grand scheme of things.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

I wouldn't trade Djokovic's 6 Aussie Opens for all the tea in China. IMO winning a HC major(the surface which has the toughest competition), especially the one played at the beginning of the year when all the players are fresh and raring to go, means more than holding up the trophy at any of the other three slams so taking that into account, prestige really means very little in the grand scheme of things.

Cool. And as a non-fan of Djokovic, I don't happily make all 12 of his majors Aussie Opens!

 

[abmk]

Length of the match isn't everything. An hour walking is less tiring than half an hour sprinting. Fed vs Del Potro was a serve fest and clearly Del Potro couldn't have been that tired if he's beating Djokovic. Don't you see how it keeps happening against Murray? How these top players keep supposedly keep playing their "worst" matches against him and keep playing beyond crap. Djokovic world tour final for example after he had just slaughtered Nishikori. It's not all them playing bad and Murray on form is capable of beating the best (this is what Federer and Djokovic fans for some reason refuse to accept and just have to make up some half baked excuse)

length of match isn't everything, but 1.5 hrs more of tennis is a considerable amount. it wasn't just a servefest btw. there were quite a few rallies as well.
delpo was also 24-25 and recovered better than ~31 year old Federer did.

As far as the WTF 2016 is concerned, Murray actually played a 3.5 hr SF and did brilliantly to beat Djokovic in straight sets in the final. That WTF final, while not a good performance by Djoko, was hardly close to being his worst match.
He also did very well to beat Djoko in the Oly 12 SF in straights.

I think just based on form, Murray would've been favored over federer in the Olympics final by a bit - assuming no delpo tiring him out. But then who knows how the mental factor would come into the picture.

It sure as hell would be a tough battle. If you think a federer not tired/not playing cr*p loses in straight sets , winning only 7 games in 3 sets on grass, you are crazy.

 

[abmk]

Then you and I have nothing more to say on the matter. You said your opinion, I said mine. I accept your opinion, don't agree, but accept it, since it is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. This discussion is now over.

yes, it is.

 

[abmk]

Slams is the biggest and no one has said anything different but there are tournaments outside it aswell that are career defining. And on that note Murray has accomplished everything.

sure , but then don't go on comparing him with ATGs like Federer, Nadal, Djokovic.

 

[timnz]

For all his remarkable consistency and being one of the four pillars that carried the game for decade, there were two periods of a year each that immortalized the Muzziah of professional tennis.

July 2012 to July 2013 - After reaching his first Wimbledon final, he wins his first Olympic single gold, wins the USO, reached the final of AO, won Miami, won Queens and won Wimbledon.

December 2015 to November 2016 - Wins Davis Cup, reaches the final of AO, wins Rome, reaches final of RG, wins Queens, wins his second Wimbledon title, wins his second single Olympic gold, dominates the fall season winning back to back masters in Shanghai and Paris, becomes world number one, wins the WTF and then win the year ending number one trophy.

When you look at these accomplishments, he has ticked almost every box, and it is because of these insane peaks he has produced, on top of the incredible consistency, that I don't put him with the Wawrinka's of this world. For me, he might not be as great as Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, but if there is a big four, which for me there is, no one deserves that fourth spot more than him.

The Muzziah of professional tennis

Closer analysis, like you have done, would suggest that Murray actually (and I know many don’t think this but I do) is in the Edberg, Becker territory.

 

[abmk]

Closer analysis, like you have done, would suggest that Murray actually (and I know many don’t think this but I do) is in the Edberg, Becker territory.

umm, no.

Not achievement wise and not peak level wise.
Just consistency is not going to cut it.

This sort of stuff/sh*t is why people get pissed off at the Murray-overrating.

 

[True Fanerer]

umm, no.

Not achievement wise and not peak level wise.
Just consistency is not going to cut it.

This sort of stuff/sh*t is why people get pissed off at the Murray-overrating.

I knew you were going to jump on this lol,.

 

[SafinSucks]

For all his remarkable consistency and being one of the four pillars that carried the game for decade, there were two periods of a year each that immortalized the Muzziah of professional tennis.

July 2012 to July 2013 - After reaching his first Wimbledon final, he wins his first Olympic single gold, wins the USO, reached the final of AO, won Miami, won Queens and won Wimbledon.

December 2015 to November 2016 - Wins Davis Cup, reaches the final of AO, wins Rome, reaches final of RG, wins Queens, wins his second Wimbledon title, wins his second single Olympic gold, dominates the fall season winning back to back masters in Shanghai and Paris, becomes world number one, wins the WTF and then win the year ending number one trophy.

When you look at these accomplishments, he has ticked almost every box, and it is because of these insane peaks he has produced, on top of the incredible consistency, that I don't put him with the Wawrinka's of this world. For me, he might not be as great as Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, but if there is a big four, which for me there is, no one deserves that fourth spot more than him.

The Muzziah of professional tennis

So this is what it takes to get 28 likes in one post.
The sky is blue.
The Pope is catholic...

 

[Meles]

For all his remarkable consistency and being one of the four pillars that carried the game for decade, there were two periods of a year each that immortalized the Muzziah of professional tennis.

July 2012 to July 2013 - After reaching his first Wimbledon final, he wins his first Olympic single gold, wins the USO, reached the final of AO, won Miami, won Queens and won Wimbledon.

December 2015 to November 2016 - Wins Davis Cup, reaches the final of AO, wins Rome, reaches final of RG, wins Queens, wins his second Wimbledon title, wins his second single Olympic gold, dominates the fall season winning back to back masters in Shanghai and Paris, becomes world number one, wins the WTF and then win the year ending number one trophy.

When you look at these accomplishments, he has ticked almost every box, and it is because of these insane peaks he has produced, on top of the incredible consistency, that I don't put him with the Wawrinka's of this world. For me, he might not be as great as Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, but if there is a big four, which for me there is, no one deserves that fourth spot more than him.

The Muzziah of professional tennis

What about 2009? Murray never really achieved the promise shown that year except for 2016.

 

[Meles]

Give me a list of eras in which Murray approaches 5 slams. How many other eras does he even sniff 3 Wimbys+USO's in? He only even has like 3 good USO runs period and two of them ended in very mediocre performances(give him a pass on 08 because he was tired), so he'd need the stars to align to win 1 in any period. 1-2 Wimby's is reasonable, but again he's not beating peak Fed/Sampras/Mac/Becker etc. so he'd need to sneak some in maybe in the early 90's or early 00's. AO wasn't even a real major until 89 and had generally pretty strong winners besides 98-99 and 02. And pretty much all those things would need to happen for him to win 5 majors. So late 90's/early 00's is his best bet because 97-first half of 99 was pretty weak and 02 was pretty weak too. And I see Murray being a bit worse with gut strings relative to the field because he struggles with depth of shot anyways and his 2nd serve is a joke even with poly so that makes it tougher.

Bottom line is that a good bit has to go right for him to win 3 or more slams in other periods given how tight the lockdown was on Wimby/USO most years. If his 2012-2016 aligns with Federer's peak instead of Djokovic's there's a good chance he has 0 majors unless he snuck one out beforehand. Every single major from 2003-2009 was won by a player playing at a clearly higher level than Murray is capable of on those respective surfaces, besides 03 USO, 04 RG and 09 USO (And Murray is far from a lock at any of those). So it goes both ways.

Long time ago did some scenarios on who picks up slams if one of the big 4 missing. Murray did not pick up much. Federer and Djokovic picked up a lot.

 

[Mainad]

What about 2009? Murray never really achieved the promise shown that year except for 2016.

2012-2013 was pretty close.