The USTA bumped me up to NTRP 5.0. Problem is, I'm not a 5.0.

[bluetrain4]

This is the most ridiculous thing, and totally unexpected.

I'm traveling to Phoenix next week and playing a tournament. I went on USTA Tennislink to register today. Entered my USTA number, and my name comes up and it indicates that, unknown to me, I'm an NTRP 5.0 rated player.

Okay, I'm a decent player. Played since I was 8 (I'm now 37), played varsity tennis for all of high school (though never made it to the State tournament), and played club tennis in college. So what.

I was away from the sport for 4 years and came back in 2006, at which time I rated myself a 4.0.

Within a year, I was up to a 4.5 level, which is which I consider myself. I've played a lot of tennis, and viewed a lot of players, and I just can't honestly say that I deserve to be a 5.0. I know what a 5.0 looks like, and It doesn't look like me.

I don't think the USTA ever bumped me up to 4.5 before this 5.0 fiasco. And, it is a problem, because in bigger tournaments, where I don't want to play Open division, and there are NTRP divisions instead of age group divisions, this now means I can't play NTRP 4.5. More importantly, I can't play on 4.5 teams.

I don't understand what the USTA is basing this on. I've won some Mens 35s tournaments against 4.5 and 4.0-level competition. I've had a decent match with a guy rated 5.0, but have also had some pretty bad losses to 5.0 rated guys.

The only thing that stands out is the tournament I played in Arizona last year, where I played the 4.5 division and beat everyone I played pretty bad. BUT, those players had to be playing up. They were not 4.5 players to begin with, so who cares if I ran through the field. I beat a bunch of 4.0s.

At least in the tournament I'm playing in Arizona this year, I'm playing age-group, not NTRP. I hope to God they don't seed me based on my 5.0 rating. This is my first tournament outdoors in months. I'm just playing to get in the swing of outdoor tennis.

This is all very unexpected and a bit frustrating. I'm not a guy who wants to overrate myself for ego purposes. I'm also not a guy who wants to underrate myself just so I have a better shot at winning certain tournaments. I want to be accurately rated, and in my honest opinion, I'm a 4.5. Where I fall on the 4.5 continuum, I don't know. I play a lot of players who identify as 4.5s and I have competitive matches with them. I'm just not seeing 5.0.

 

[Nellie]

Sorry to hear that. The 5.0 ranking is tough because there are not many 5.0 league. Maybe, more will start as the USTA pushes up big blocks of players.

 

[Marshredder]

If you're winning several 4.5 tournaments, its expected that you get bumped up. Try not to think of it as a bad thing! Think of it as a challenge. I often make an effort to play people way above my level of play just because its a great learning experience and you get better much quickly as you're put in a position where you have to prepare, react etc much quicker.

And hey, if you lose a lot in 5.0, you'll just get bumped down.

 

[Topaz]

I don't understand what the USTA is basing this on. I've won some Mens 35s tournaments against 4.5 and 4.0-level competition. I've had a decent match with a guy rated 5.0, but have also had some pretty bad losses to 5.0 rated guys.

The only thing that stands out is the tournament I played in Arizona last year, where I played the 4.5 division and beat everyone I played pretty bad. BUT, those players had to be playing up. They were not 4.5 players to begin with, so who cares if I ran through the field. I beat a bunch of 4.0s.

.

I think it is being based on what I bolded. Also, it doesn't sound like you know for sure if the 4.5s you beat up on were playing up or not.

Basically, if you continually beat up on the people at your level (which it sounds like you did on more than one occasion), you will get bumped.

Also, not sure if you are aware of this or not, but there was a 'Big Bump' this year...more movement than normal because the USTA is trying to prevent sandbagging. Lots of threads about it on here, if you want to look them up.

 

[nhat8121]

i thought one is suppose to be happy when one gets promoted, only in amedica

just b/c you don't feel 5.0 doesn't mean you're not one...seems like quite a resume, promotion is valid.

 

[bluetrain4]

I'm thinking it must be based primarily on the Arizona 4.5 tournament. But, seriously, and no offense to them, they guys I played just didn't seem to be 4.5-level players. But, as someone pointed out, I don't know their actual ratings. Maybe they rated themselves 4.5.

And, I'm wondering if the USTA even considers the ratings of the people you beat. Maybe they just look and say, "Well he dominated a 4.5 tournament," without even considering the level of the people in the tournament.

As for the 35s tournaments which I won or was a finalist, again, by my own assessment, most of the guys were more 4.0-ish, but I guess they could have been self-rated at 4.5. And, if they were 5.0s, I lost. But, as I said, I played a tournament final against a guy who may have been rated a 5.0 and lost 3-6, 6-0, 6-3. Okay, a good result vs. a 5.0 guy. But, over the summer of 2009, I was also basically destroyed (6-2, 6-1 type scores) on more than one occasion by 5.0s.

5.0 is a no mans land for me. 4.5 is, in my opinion, the peak of everyday recreational tennis. Guy's who have played and know how to play, but who are not worldbeaters. 5.0 is the domain of ex-college guys, club pros, maybe guys like me, but 10 years younger, 15 pounds lighter, and a step faster.

Maybe all of my assumptions and knowledge about NTRP levels are incorrect.

And, I live in Springfield, Illinois. Not Florida or Atlanta, Southern Cal or Texas. I don't live in a tennis hotbed. There are NO team opportunities for 5.0s where I live.

 

[bluetrain4]

i thought one is suppose to be happy when one gets promoted, only in amedica

just b/c you don't feel 5.0 doesn't mean you're not one...seems like quite a resume, promotion is valid.

Yes, you're right. I could take an alternative view and be proud of the bump and not be victimized by it. Entirely true, I don't need to see this so negatively. But, I'm still surprised and little dismayed.

 

[J_R_B]

And, I'm wondering if the USTA even considers the ratings of the people you beat. Maybe they just look and say, "Well he dominated a 4.5 tournament," without even considering the level of the people in the tournament.

The dynamic ratings (your "real" rating, like 4.31 instead of just 4.5) and the ratings category bumps are done by computers, not people. The algorithm compares your dynamic rating to the dynamic rating of your opponent and calculates an expected result. The more the actual result deviates from the expected result, the bigger the adjustment in your dynamic rating. So, if you are rated 4.42 and play an opponent rated 4.37, the computer would expect a very close match. If you beat him 1 & 1, your dynamic rating will increase and his will decrease since this result is not expected for players with that close of a dynamic rating. If you play an opponent with a rating of 4.02, the computer expects you to win a blowout. If you win 1 & 1, your dynamic rating will change very little since the computer is expecting a blowout. OTOH, if you win 7-5, 3-6, 6-4, your dynamic rating will take a little hit despite winning since the computer was not expecting a close match. The computer definitely does not just consider that you won a 4.5 tournament without considering the dynamic ratings of your opponents.

Did you play in a 4.5 league? If you have league matches to use for your ratings, the computer will use the league matches. If you don't have league matches, the computer will give you a Tournament Exclusive rating based on your tournament results. You can tell if your rating is based on league play or just tournament matches by going to the TennisLink Find A Rating page and searching for yoruself:

http://tennislink.usta.com/leagues/reports/NTRP/FindRating.asp

There is a Rating Type column. If this is C or B, your rating is league based. If it is T, then it is Tournament Exclusive (or S=Self-Rated, A=Appeal).

 

[decades]

is this a bit like Brooklyn Decker saying I don't deserve the SI cover because I don't look hot in a bikini?

 

[LeeD]

More like saying...." I need to sandbag, because collecting trophies is the most important part of my life, and I always want to play against players who are inferior to me, so I feel great about myself and never lose" .....

 

[goober]

I'm thinking it must be based primarily on the Arizona 4.5 tournament. But, seriously, and no offense to them, they guys I played just didn't seem to be 4.5-level players. But, as someone pointed out, I don't know their actual ratings. Maybe they rated themselves 4.5.

And, I'm wondering if the USTA even considers the ratings of the people you beat. Maybe they just look and say, "Well he dominated a 4.5 tournament," without even considering the level of the people in the tournament.

.

I can vouch for Bluetrain that he did not dominate a legit 4.5 tourney in Phoenix last year. He beat a 4.0 rated player 7-5, 7-6 in the first round, beat a mid level 4.5 player in the second round and beat a 4.5 player in the finals who had been recently bumped up from 4.0 and to date I believe has not won a match against another 4.5 rated player.

But still he probably is a strong 4.5 at the least. It may not be fair, but at worse just play a bunch of matches this year at 5.0 and open and if you lose a lot you will probably be bumped backed down.

 

[bluetrain4]

I can vouch for Bluetrain that he did not dominate a legit 4.5 tourney in Phoenix last year. He beat a 4.0 rated player 7-5, 7-6 in the first round, beat a mid level 4.5 player in the second round and beat a 4.5 player in the finals who had been recently bumped up from 4.0 and to date I believe has not won a match against another 4.5 rated player.

But still he probably is a strong 4.5 at the least. It may not be fair, but at worse just play a bunch of matches this year at 5.0 and open and if you lose a lot you will probably be bumped backed down.

I didn't even remember the 7-5, 7-6 match. I was playing two different singles divisions (4.5 and 30s or Open, I think), and I thought that match was in the 30s or Open, but apparently it wasn't, which gives even more credibility to my argument. Lol. The matches that I actually dominated were against the (on paper) better players. This just shows you how convoluted the rating process is.

 

[LeeD]

Please feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong.
I thought the goal in playing tennis is first to have fun, then to improve, then to play at higher levels.
Always good to know some progress is happenning. Never good to be bumped DOWN a full level.

 

[ace18]

I got this information from a usta league coordinator...

Are you playing in the Michael Rodriguez Tennis Classic?

Rating points

2.5 & below = 2.5

4.01 - 4.50 = 4.5

2.51 – 3.00 = 3.0

3.01 – 3.50 = 3.5

3.51 – 4.00 = 4.0

4.01 - 4.50 = 4.5

4.51 – 5.00 = 5.0

if your rating is 4.51, you get bumped, you might have just bumped over the 4.5 pt level.

 

[86golf]

If you are borderline, just appeal and you will get the automated grant. If not you are likely where you belong.
FYI-you are not in the minority, about 60% of league players got bumped up for this season so many of those good 4.5's from last year are likely right there with you.

 

[nocab]

With the information you gave it's pretty easy to find you on tennislink.

I don't know why you care. You played 2 league matches in 2007 at the 4.0 level and only open or age level tournaments that year. Last year you played one 4.5 tourney and the rest open, 30's or 35's. So it shouldn't matter if you are a 3.0 or a 7.0 because it seems like you don't want to play league and the level you play at most tournaments doesn't require a ntrp rating.

What would you do with if you had a 4.5 rating? Nothing different then what you will be doing with your 5.0 rating.

 

[bluetrain4]

With the information you gave it's pretty easy to find you on tennislink.

I don't know why you care. You played 2 league matches in 2007 at the 4.0 level and only open or age level tournaments that year. Last year you played one 4.5 tourney and the rest open, 30's or 35's. So it shouldn't matter if you are a 3.0 or a 7.0 because it seems like you don't want to play league and the level you play at most tournaments doesn't require a ntrp rating.

What would you do with if you had a 4.5 rating? Nothing different then what you will be doing with your 5.0 rating.

Well, you may have a point, but a couple things I want to point out. First, my initial post was a "rant". I was very surprised at the 5.0 rating, and a bit confused, since I really don't think I deserve the bump, so I just posted quickly.

Obviously, a post of such nature is self-involved, a bit petty, and, to many people, pointless. Why should anyone care about my rating "problem"? I realize that in the larger picture, my USTA NTRP rating is not going to affect my life considerably. Believe me, I get that. I love tennis, but it is really just a hobby. As others have pointed, out, I should actually be happy, be grateful that I've been bumped, instead of complaining. So, to the extent that I made this seem like the end of the world, I apologize. It's not. There are many people with more pressing problems.

But, this is a tennis forum, so if there's anywhere I can post a self-indulgent tennis rant, it would be here.

True, I don't play 4.5 league, but that's only because where I live (Springfield, Illinois), there is none. But, I do plan on moving soon, to a much larger city (probably Chicago or Atlanta) where there is a 4.5 leagues, and, therefore, my rating does matter.

Furthermore, I may have had an opportunity to play on a 4.5 team out of St. Louis this summer, and that, obviously, is affected by my rating.

Again, I realize that his is hardly the end of the world. But, I thought it was an appropriate subject for an adult league and tournament forum.

 

[dlk]

^^^Solid post. You've demonstrated introspection that accompanies what it takes to have the game of a 5.0. I wish I had your problem, I'll top out at 4.0 most likely.

 

[nkbond]

quickest way down, play 9.0 mixed with an average to weak 4.0 woman and generate a mixed-exclusive rating. It's usually takes only a season or two to get back to 4.5. That's the preferred cycle for several 5.0 guys in my area who like to play 4.5, and yes, when they're all down, they have won districts, sectionals, and made nationals last year.

 

[andfor]

Well, you may have a point, but a couple things I want to point out. First, my initial post was a "rant". I was very surprised at the 5.0 rating, and a bit confused, since I really don't think I deserve the bump, so I just posted quickly.

Obviously, a post of such nature is self-involved, a bit petty, and, to many people, pointless. Why should anyone care about my rating "problem"? I realize that in the larger picture, my USTA NTRP rating is not going to affect my life considerably. Believe me, I get that. I love tennis, but it is really just a hobby. As others have pointed, out, I should actually be happy, be grateful that I've been bumped, instead of complaining. So, to the extent that I made this seem like the end of the world, I apologize. It's not. There are many people with more pressing problems.

But, this is a tennis forum, so if there's anywhere I can post a self-indulgent tennis rant, it would be here.

True, I don't play 4.5 league, but that's only because where I live (Springfield, Illinois), there is none. But, I do plan on moving soon, to a much larger city (probably Chicago or Atlanta) where there is a 4.5 leagues, and, therefore, my rating does matter.

Furthermore, I may have had an opportunity to play on a 4.5 team out of St. Louis this summer, and that, obviously, is affected by my rating.

Again, I realize that his is hardly the end of the world. But, I thought it was an appropriate subject for an adult league and tournament forum.

First I recommend just playing 5.0 and move on. Or if you have to, appeal to the section and see if you get moved down. When you appeal also complain there are not enough 5.0's to create a team and no 5.0 teams near where you live. True story....a 5.0 rated player from the Johnson City, TN area appealed to 4.5 and part of his complaint was there was no 5.0 teams within reasonable driving distance from his home. The Southern Section actually had a behind the scenes rule to account for boarderline players allowing the appeal down due to lack of players of similar level in the area. It's worth a shot, let us know what happens. *Disclaimer* All sections are not the same with the USTA League rules. Go figure.........

If you're going to appeal you better hurry before you move. When you move to ATL or CHI I doubt you'll have a chance at winning an appeal. They'll tell you to play and the system will take care of your rating when you establish a record a 5.0.

 

[10sguy]

sorry - duplicate post/reply

 

[10sguy]

quickest way down, play 9.0 mixed with an average to weak 4.0 woman and generate a mixed-exclusive rating. It's usually takes only a season or two to get back to 4.5. That's the preferred cycle for several 5.0 guys in my area who like to play 4.5, and yes, when they're all down, they have won districts, sectionals, and made nationals last year.

Oh yeah . . . get your rating down to where you can dominate, be a macho all-the-time winner! Remember, on average, 50 percent of players lose every time out. There's more to enjoying this game than just winning. Sheesh!!

 

[mbrnj]

I was told that appeals were not being granted even in circumstances like mine. I played 3.5 for several years and was successful but not dominant. Last summer I relocated across country and began playing with several 3.0 and 3.5 players from a 3.5 team. Again I was successful but not dominant. Last fall my rating goes up to 4.0 and as I was beginning to search for a new team I suffered an injury which will keep me sidelined until the end of April. My chances of finding a team now are nil as I will not be 100%. If I cannot get on a team how can the computer "do the job" of adjusting the rating? I have resigned myself to the fact that I will have to sit this season out but realistically I may never have the range of motion that I had before the injury. Does that mean that I never play USTA again??

 

[andfor]

I was told that appeals were not being granted even in circumstances like mine. I played 3.5 for several years and was successful but not dominant. Last summer I relocated across country and began playing with several 3.0 and 3.5 players from a 3.5 team. Again I was successful but not dominant. Last fall my rating goes up to 4.0 and as I was beginning to search for a new team I suffered an injury which will keep me sidelined until the end of April. My chances of finding a team now are nil as I will not be 100%. If I cannot get on a team how can the computer "do the job" of adjusting the rating? I have resigned myself to the fact that I will have to sit this season out but realistically I may never have the range of motion that I had before the injury. Does that mean that I never play USTA again??

You can play combo or mixed later in the year after4 you heal up. If no team will have you becuase you are not a good 4.0 that won't fly with the USTA. Expect them to tell you as they told a 5.0 friend of mine who could not get on a team, "start your own team". Good luck

 

[Ronaldo]

I was told that appeals were not being granted even in circumstances like mine. I played 3.5 for several years and was successful but not dominant. Last summer I relocated across country and began playing with several 3.0 and 3.5 players from a 3.5 team. Again I was successful but not dominant. Last fall my rating goes up to 4.0 and as I was beginning to search for a new team I suffered an injury which will keep me sidelined until the end of April. My chances of finding a team now are nil as I will not be 100%. If I cannot get on a team how can the computer "do the job" of adjusting the rating? I have resigned myself to the fact that I will have to sit this season out but realistically I may never have the range of motion that I had before the injury. Does that mean that I never play USTA again??

Isn't there a medical appeal? Like if you have your hand amputated? And used a hook.

 

[samprasvsfederer123]

look the point is that you are a good player no?

 

[andfor]

Isn't there a medical appeal? Like if you have your hand amputated? And used a hook.

You may think you're being funny and ya you kind of are.

True story. I played 4.5 state a few years ago. We had a good team. I played doubles against a guy with one leg. That's right 1 freaking leg, the other leg was a prosthesis. The 1 legged guy if I remember correctly served left-handed and played right-handed. Anyway, he was a darn good athlete and heck of a tennis player. My partner and I lost. Needless to say a bunch of tennis buddies locally made fun of us. The 1 legged guy got moved up to 5.0 the next year. Some of the same guys who laughed at us the year before had to play the guy at state in 5.0 the next year. They lost too!

Since then I have not given much weight to those who want a medical waiver.

 

[OrangePower]

^^^

Another true story:

I lost 6-2 6-3 to a guy with one arm (other arm missing from shoulder). Played him in a local tournament. He would serve by holding the ball with his racket hand, toss up ball high, then take the racket back.

And in case you're wondering, I'm a 4.5, and I found out later that my opponent is a legit 5.0. He used to be a top D1 college player and then lost his arm in a car accident.

 

[mbrnj]

The email we received from USTA stated that medical appeals were not being granted for injuries, even those with a recovery time of 1 year or more. The computer is supposed to take care of the rating when the player does finally come back.
I would be open to starting my own team--if I knew players. I moved from an area with probably 40-50 teams at the 4.0 level per season to an area that had 4 last season. The players that I will be playing with when I return from my injury will not be 4.0's (probably not even 3.5's) so getting a team to take me as a charity case would be almost impossible.

 

[Ronaldo]

The email we received from USTA stated that medical appeals were not being granted for injuries, even those with a recovery time of 1 year or more. The computer is supposed to take care of the rating when the player does finally come back.
I would be open to starting my own team--if I knew players. I moved from an area with probably 40-50 teams at the 4.0 level per season to an area that had 4 last season. The players that I will be playing with when I return from my injury will not be 4.0's (probably not even 3.5's) so getting a team to take me as a charity case would be almost impossible.

I was joking about the hook. However, locally many players try to use the medical appeal for many reasons, heart disease, cancer recovery, whatever. Our new problem is that many players over 60 were bumped up a level and decided not to play, period.