The valuable time between split step and unit turn

[Curious]

Some will probably say: Overanalysis, waste of time etc but I noticed I'm always late in my preparation because of a kind of discordance, disconnection between my footwork/split step and the unit turn. In a way I am too busy with the feet at the time of the ball being hit on the other side of the court and by the time I start my unit turn the ball has already bounced which I'm sure is too late. I noticed this when I was watching Kyrgios practice video and compared to my hitting today. He times his unit turn so well that it coincides with the time of the ball's first flight until the bounce, then he is well ready for the swing. I almost start the unit turn at the time of the bounce. With the ball machine it is much harder to time it obviously but I think I do this during real play as well. Any tips to overcome this issue?

 

[SinjinCooper]

The sequence goes: split step, recognize, unit turn, backswing. This saves time because the unit turn gets the body into position to hit while simultaneously getting the racquet halfway back to its furthest point before the real takeback ever begins. (In reality, the unit turn segues seamlessly into the backswing, but for learning purposes, it's easier to imagine it coming first.)

Your sequence goes: split step, recognize, take a full backswing using just the arms, then turn the body. The whole thing takes about twice as long as it should, as a result.

It's called a unit turn because the body, arms, hands, and racquet all turn as a unit. Yours don't. Your first move is with the arms, and the body only separately, and only afterward. Work on it till it becomes a unit turn (stress on "unit"), and your efficiency will improve.

You're not overanalyzing. It's a good question, a simple fix, and an important one, especially against bigger hitters.

 

[SinjinCooper]

Also, very dramatic lighting. Props.

 

[Curious]

The sequence goes: split step, recognize, unit turn, backswing. This saves time because the unit turn gets the body into position to hit while simultaneously getting the racquet halfway back to its furthest point before the real takeback ever begins. (In reality, the unit turn segues seamlessly into the backswing, but for learning purposes, it's easier to imagine it coming first.)

Your sequence goes: split step, recognize, take a full backswing using just the arms, then turn the body. The whole thing takes about twice as long as it should, as a result.

It's called a unit turn because the body, arms, hands, and racquet all turn as a unit. Yours don't. Your first move is with the arms, and the body only separately, and only afterward. Work on it till it becomes a unit turn (stress on "unit"), and your efficiency will improve.

You're not overanalyzing. It's a good question, a simple fix, and an important one, especially against bigger hitters.

Thanks, good points. I wasn't really aware that I initiate first with the arms then the torso follows and not turned enough also. But is this really likely to contribute to me being late, or just another issue to be fixed?

 

[SinjinCooper]

Thanks, good points. I wasn't really aware that I initiate first with the arms then the torso follows and not turned enough also. But is this really likely to contribute to me being late, or just another issue to be fixed?

You're going to have to both turn AND take your backswing either way. You're either doing them together (as happens with a good unit turn), or you're doing them one at a time. It's most definitely a time issue that will slow you down.

It means, among other things, that when a ball is coming too fast to get into position and allow a full swing, Nick (along with all other unit turners) has already fully turned, and can abbreviate the arm takeback, but can still get the full force of the legs, hips, core and shoulders into the ball...just not the full arm as well.

When it comes at you that fast, you've "abbreviated" out the legs, hips, core, and shoulders, and have to rely on ONLY the arm. Which is not only less powerful than the full body, but also doesn't swing properly if the body is in the wrong position. The quicker you turn, the more pace you can deal with, and the more pace you can deliver back.

I wasn't kidding when I said your current way of getting prepped is taking twice as long as it should. You can still hit a nice forehand that way, so long as you have the time to, but time becomes a limiting factor.

 

[Curious]

I guess a full unit turn is more difficult when you use open stance and you are 50 years old due to flexibility issues. Should I use more neutral stance and better unit turn or continue with open stance and a lesser unit turn?

 

[SinjinCooper]

Shouldn't be much to do with flexibility, really. If a ball comes right to you, neutral stance is pretty much always indicated. Because that's how to initiate that full-body unit turn to include all the parts of the stroke in the least time. Balls right at you are often the ones you have the least time to react to. That's why you see so many pros who you think of as "open stance hitters" hitting from a neutral stance in practice sessions. Because warm-up hits are most often directly to them. Cooperative rallies.

Assuming you want to stay more open on strokes you have to move to, you just get turned sideways while you're moving there, doing your racquet prep as you move, and step out with the rear plant foot as you get into position. You probably already do that, since turning sideways to move to a ball is more or less instinctual for most people (apologies to TTPS), but it didn't really feature in the clip above.

Good topic, and good questions.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Notice how Nick K barely even split steps.
When I see TT rec players do a split step, it is cringeworthy and unnatural.
Textbook example of "Learned it on the internet" and it being totally useless and awkward and forced.
It's this useless little up down bunny hop that does nothing, and actually makes them late.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Notice how Nick K barely even split steps.
When I see TT rec players do a split step, it is cringeworthy and unnatural.
Textbook example of "Learned it on the internet" and it being totally useless and awkward and forced.
It's this useless little up down bunny hop that does nothing, and actually makes them late.

Pros run the gamut of split step height and knee bend. Goffin has barely of either. Murray has a very high split. Djokovic and Nadal have very low crouches.

The takeaway is that you won't get a consistent answer if you try to reconcile all styles to dogmatic rules. If you think you can adapt to the Kyrgios style, go for it. I was taught to have a bigger split and it works for me.

What I don't recommend is abandoning the split: just because a pro can play that way doesn't mean you will be able to.

The "bunny hop" does not make people late; doing the hop late makes them late. And I don't find it useless; I find it quite useful.

What does your coach say?

 

[SinjinCooper]

What does "barely even split step" mean? It isn't about height. It's about distributing your weight to move quickly either direction by coming down on the balls of your feet, with a nice, wide, stable base, right after contact by your opponent.

I started at the beginning to see how many times in a row Nick did this without failing. I stopped counting at about fifty. He split steps every time.

 

[GuyClinch]

I started at the beginning to see how many times in a row Nick did this without failing. I stopped counting at about fifty. He split steps every time

LMAO. TTPS is a one of those guys whose plays tennis poorly then mostly scours the forums to find proof his ****ty play is actually the 'correct' way. POMO, Taiss, Oserver - the list of these guys is large.

The average person just split steps. It's not hard or complicated..

Now with regards to Krygios forehand - the great thing about pro forehands is the timing. Ball going slower - turn is slower so that its one continuous motion. Unit Turn right into forward swing - smooth - no hitches or jerks. Fed of course is same way.

What you notice about rec tennis players is they like the idea of doing one thing at a time - rather then mutiple movements simultaneously.

 

[navigator]

Notice how Nick K barely even split steps.
When I see TT rec players do a split step, it is cringeworthy and unnatural.
Textbook example of "Learned it on the internet" and it being totally useless and awkward and forced.
It's this useless little up down bunny hop that does nothing, and actually makes them late.

I'm (obviously) a TT rec player. Is my split step "cringeworthy and unnatural"?

http://screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cbeYr66CKr
http://screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cbeYr66CKr
Do you have any suggestions for me to improve my footwork? I always thought it was one of my strengths but I don't have the depth of knowledge and experience that you have.

Teach me Master. When I can remove the dampener from your hand, then it will be time for me to leave.

The average person just split steps. It's not hard or complicated..

Yes, indeedy.

 

[navigator]

^^^ @TimeToPlaySets

Still waiting on your answer.

 

[ChaelAZ]

^^^ @TimeToPlaySets

Still waiting on your answer.

He is checking with his coach....who is reading TT forums on the Internet to get proper tips to give him so he can report back.

 

[navigator]

He is checking with his coach....who is reading TT forums on the Internet to get proper tips to give him so he can report back.

It's the brand of mad genius that I'll never fully understand.

 

[ChaelAZ]

It's the brand of mad genius that I'll never fully understand.

Tangled webs weaved, and all. Yup.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I'm (obviously) a TT rec player. Is my split step "cringeworthy and unnatural"?
http://screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cbeYr66CKr
Do you have any suggestions for me to improve my footwork? I always thought it was one of my strengths but I don't have the depth of knowledge and experience that you have.

Your split step does not look awkward, since it is so small.

You want a tip? You seem to be lazy on your BH side. Instead of backing up and hitting topspin, you are lazily hitting a slice.
My coach stops the rally every time I do that. Move back and hit it with topspin, don't just weakly slice.
Against a strong player, the weak slice will be the end of the point.

 

[JohnYandell]

Curious,
Unit turn doesn't take flexibility--make sure your left side comes along--rotation of the left hip and of the left foot up on the toe. Don't hit open! Semi-open or neutral.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Your split step does not look awkward, since it is so small.

Size of split step does not correlate with awkwardness. If it did, Murray would be very awkward. It's about balance and timing.

You want a tip? You seem to be lazy on your BH side. Instead of backing up and hitting topspin, you are lazily hitting a slice.
My coach stops the rally every time I do that. Move back and hit it with topspin, don't just weakly slice.
Against a strong player, the weak slice will be the end of the point.

Why would @navigator need to back up to hit TS? He could hit it by short-hopping the ball. And backing up requires more work and possibly cedes some court control; maybe Navigator didn't want to do that.

Why is standing one's ground and hitting slice "lazy" or "weak"? Slice can be a very effective shot, especially when it skids. At what timestamps is the shot lazy and weak?

Against a strong player, any weak shot will be the end of the point: slice, TS, flat, moonball, etc. Singling out the slice is not fair.

Maybe your coach stops you because the lesson is on driving the BH with TS. Federer mixes in slice beautifully: why is his shot not lazy and weak against the strong competition he faces?

 

[navigator]

Your split step does not look awkward, since it is so small.

Well, it is called a split "step", and not a split "jump", after all. But I'm no expert.

You want a tip? You seem to be lazy on your BH side. Instead of backing up and hitting topspin, you are lazily hitting a slice.

Perhaps. Although Ken Rosewall was an ok player and never came over the ball. I'll try to muddle along.

(Actually, I think you mean "stepping in" and hitting topspin, not "backing up". It's hard to hit an effective topspin BH while you're backing up.)

My coach stops the rally every time I do that. Move back and hit it with topspin, don't just weakly slice.
Against a strong player, the weak slice will be the end of the point.

Perhaps. But since you'll never beat a strong player it's irrelevant in your case, so this is a non-sequitor. You should probably just focus on getting the ball back in the court - slice, topspin, or flat.

 

[navigator]

Why is standing one's ground and hitting slice "lazy" or "weak"? Slice can be a very effective shot, especially when it skids. At what timestamps is the shot lazy and weak?

Oh, I hit some lazy and weak slice BHs here and there. But...

Against a strong player, any weak shot will be the end of the point: slice, TS, flat, moonball, etc. Singling out the slice is not fair.

... that (above) is the real point, particularly at the rec level. A weak shot is a weak shot, regardless of how much or what type of spin it has.