The WADA Director explains the appeal to the CAS. Decision likely around March

[Winner Sinner]

In an interview with Eurosport, Olivier Niggli, director of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA), clarified the reasons for appealing to the CAS in the Sinner case, which could lead to a suspension of one to two years for the world number one.

WADA's Position
“It was considered in the decision that Sinner was not at fault,” Niggli explained. “Our position is that there is still an athlete's responsibility towards his entourage. This is the legal point that will be debated before the CAS.”

The crux of the issue
The case concerns the contamination that occurred through Sinner's former physiotherapist, who had used a spray containing clostebol, a prohibited substance, on his hand. “We do not dispute the fact that it may have been a contamination,” Niggli specified, “but we believe that the application of the rules does not correspond to the jurisprudence.”

The Times
As confirmed to AFP, no decisions will be made before 2025, leaving Sinner in a situation of uncertainty for the coming months. A story that could have important repercussions not only on the career of the Italian tennis player, but also on sports jurisprudence regarding the responsibility of athletes.

 

[Bartelby]

This is exactly what the "wise men" of TT have been saying. If Sinner's entourage is at fault, then he shares some fault according to existing jurisprudence.

If the existing jurisprudence were overturned, it would open the floodgates to doping.

 

[nolefam_2024]

So it took wada exactly 1 year to give final results. The whole process is now full of corruption. First it took 6 months to see the story come out and now 6 months after first clearance.

Sinner may be 30 by the time they finally give final final result.

Corrupt

From the top to bottom.

 

[nolefam_2024]

This situation has made a mockery out of doping testing now. No one cares. No one is afraid. This is like lawless Gotham after Joker arrived now.

 

[Bill Lobsalot]

Sinner could win a couple more slams before this is resolved.

 

[RSJfan]

Non-sensical statement: “So it took wada exactly 1 year to give final results.”

WADA doesn’t give results. It’s a party to the arbitration not the arbitrator. It has a brief window to exercise its right to appeal which begins after the ITIA sends over its case files. The issue on appeal has been known since the appeal was announced. The parties aren’t disputing the veracity of Sinner’s story. That‘s a TTW entertainment.

I don’t understand what WADA does or the arbitration process or the typical timing = corrupt.

I don’t understand this thread. This thread is corrupt.

 

[Bartelby]

If there is anything unexplained here it is how the Independent Tribunal in the Sinner case came up with a decision that flouted existing jurisprudence.

So it took wada exactly 1 year to give final results. The whole process is now full of corruption. First it took 6 months to see the story come out and now 6 months after first clearance.

Sinner may be 30 by the time they finally give final final result.

Corrupt

From the top to bottom.

 

[nolefam_2024]

If there is anything unexplained here it is how the Independent Tribunal in the Sinner case came up with a decision that flouted existing jurisprudence.

Why is the case getting pushed

 

[Bartelby]

Because the Independent Tribunal made an erroneous ruling.

Why is the case getting pushed

 

[nolefam_2024]

Because the Independent Tribunal made an erroneous ruling.

Yes that's fine. And the appeal was raised back in October. Now they have given Sinner 5 more months already. By this time there is no fear left for anyone else. Get caught and give bs reasons. Even if you get punished , it would take years.

 

[jackson vile]

This is exactly what the "wise men" of TT have been saying. If Sinner's entourage is at fault, then he shares some fault according to existing jurisprudence.

If the existing jurisprudence were overturned, it would open the floodgates to doping.

That’s a total overreaction to the highest order

Instead, it should be something more in the middle where if somebody in your entourage makes a mistake you have to make sure that that mistake is corrected and if it’s not corrected, then you are negligent at that point.

If somebody were to put drugs in your drink without you knowing and then you tested positive for narcotics, certainly you shouldn’t go to prison for drug use when you were unknowing and unwilling.

Similar, if one of your family members were to take out a whole bunch of loans in your name without you knowing certainly you shouldn’t be liable for those loans, correct?

However, if you found out about it and failed to contact the authorities or make the necessary corrections, then you would be liable.

Does that make sense to you?

 

[Bartelby]

There is a huge backlog of cases at CAS as the body serves not just tennis.

Yes that's fine. And the appeal was raised back in October. Now they have given Sinner 5 more months already. By this time there is no fear left for anyone else. Get caught and give bs reasons. Even if you get punished , it would take years.

 

[Bartelby]

If a third party contaminated Sinner's skin or body then he would be let off, but this is his team so they are not third parties but his agents.

That’s a total overreaction to the highest order

Instead, it should be something more in the middle where if somebody in your entourage makes a mistake you have to make sure that that mistake is corrected and if it’s not corrected, then you are negligent at that point.

If somebody were to put drugs in your drink without you knowing and then you tested positive for narcotics, certainly you shouldn’t go to prison for drug use when you were unknowing and unwilling.

Similar, if one of your family members were to take out a whole bunch of loans in your name without you knowing certainly you shouldn’t be liable for those loans, correct?

However, if you found out about it and failed to contact the authorities or make the necessary corrections, then you would be liable.

Does that make sense to you?

 

[travlerajm]

Non-sensical statement: “So it took wada exactly 1 year to give final results.”

WADA doesn’t give results. It’s a party to the arbitration not the arbitrator. It has a brief window to exercise its right to appeal which begins after the ITIA sends over its case files. The issue on appeal has been known since the appeal was announced. The parties aren’t disputing the veracity of Sinner’s story. That‘s a TTW entertainment.

I don’t understand what WADA does or the arbitration process or the typical timing = corrupt.

I don’t understand this thread. This thread is corrupt.

The reason WADA isn’t disputing the veracity of Sinner’s story is that there’s no easy way to disprove it, even if they believe it’s fabricated.

It’s much easier to address the problem that an athlete should never be able to simply blame a positive test on a member of his team. It’s always been the case that the athlete is responsible for everyone on his team, and Sinner getting away scot free would be big change in precedent. It’s hard to foresee him not being banned if a judge with any logic gets to decide, but I’m not betting any marbles given the shady stuff we’ve already witnessed in this particular case.

 

[smoledman]

So Sinner has to play AO and Dubai with this ******** hanging over him. F-en weirdos.

 

[Bartelby]

On the other hand, Sinner did play all 2024 thanks to this probably erroneous decision.

So Sinner has to play AO and Dubai with this ******** hanging over him. F-en weirdos.

 

[smoledman]

On the other hand, Sinner did play all 2024 thanks to this probably erroneous decision.

Yeah but how much can he take of this nonsense?

 

[RSJfan]

This thread is corrupt. In addition it’s likely some TTW members are using banned substances and it appears more mind-altering than performance enhancing.

To put the rest of us at ease that we are posting in a fair environment, TTW should file an application to become a WADA Code signatory and anti-doping testing should be implemented. My fav Raul should be tested first. Randomly of course.

“…any other entity having significant relevance in sport may submit an application to WADA to become Signatory.” [bold added]

Become a Code Signatory

In accordance with Article 23.1.2 of the Code, the following

www.wada-ama.org

 

[smoledman]

From now on all TTW members will be randomly drug tested.

 

[RSJfan]

The reason WADA isn’t disputing the veracity of Sinner’s story is that there’s no easy way to disprove it, even if they believe it’s fabricated…

The burden of proof was/is on Sinner to prove No Fault or Negligence not on ITIA/WADA to disprove it.

 

[travlerajm]

The burden of proof was/is on Sinner to prove No Fault or Negligence not on ITIA/WADA to disprove it.

By trying to pass the blame onto his team member, he did nothing to prove ‘no fault’, because he is responsible for any actions of his team regarding banned substances.

 

[RSJfan]

By trying to pass the blame onto his team member, he did nothing to prove ‘no fault’, because he is responsible for any actions of his team regarding banned substances.

You’re assuming how the CAS panel will determine the legal issue in dispute on appeal. You may be correct, or not. It’s obviously not the ITIA’s view.

Assume you believe the story. Pretend it’s not tennis related and you have zero interest in the outcome. Do you think it’s fair to athletes to receive a ban under these type of circumstances?

 

[travlerajm]

You’re assuming how the CAS panel will determine the legal issue in dispute on appeal. You may be correct, or not. It’s obviously not the ITIA’s view.

Assume you believe the story. Pretend it’s not tennis related and you have zero interest in the outcome. Do you think it’s fair to athletes to receive a ban under these type of circumstances?

All the athletes know the rules. So it’s fair that everyone must follow them.

 

[Bartelby]

By having convenient "fall guys" he got any potential suspension reduced considerably, but the Independent Tribunal's "horsehairs" were somehow induced not to suspend.

By trying to pass the blame onto his team member, he did nothing to prove ‘no fault’, because he is responsible for any actions of his team regarding banned substances.

 

[RSJfan]

All the athletes know the rules. So it’s fair that everyone must follow them.

The ITIA and WADA don’t even agree on what the rules mean so your premise is incorrect. And I don’t find “the rules are the rules” a good argument for deciding if a rule is fair. And my question was — to reword it — if the rule is interpreted as WADA prefers do you think it’s a just rule?

 

[Bill Lobsalot]

From now on all TTW members will be randomly drug tested.

Can you list the banned drugs...say, before 10PM tonight?

 

[JMR]

As confirmed to AFP, no decisions will be made before 2025, leaving Sinner in a situation of uncertainty for the coming months.

This is the same vague information that has been available for a while now. Why then does the title of this thread say, "Decision likely around March"? Nothing in the material that you have posted refers to that time frame. There isn't even anything stated about the hearing date, much less the decision date. Moreover, we know from the most recent CAS published hearing schedule (https://www.tas-cas.org/en/media/latest-news/article/list-of-hearings-4.html) that the Sinner hearing cannot occur before February 11. So now you somehow have reliable information about both when the case will be heard and when it will be decided?

 

[RSJfan]

This is the same vague information that has been available for a while now. Why then does the title of this thread say, "Decision likely around March"? Nothing in the material that you have posted refers to that time frame. There isn't even anything stated about the hearing date, much less the decision date. Moreover, we know from the most recent CAS published hearing schedule (https://www.tas-cas.org/en/media/latest-news/article/list-of-hearings-4.html) that the Sinner hearing cannot occur before February 11. So now you somehow have reliable information about both when the case will be heard and when it will be decided?

I don’t know when the Carrot appeal hearing date will be known or when the full decision will be published. What I do know is that given the intense interest within tennis that it is very likely that the bottom line will be published shortly after the hearing and before the full decision and that Dr Raul will write a number of angry posts alleging foul play for not publishing the full opinion. In due course the full decision will be published and Dr Raul will have long moved on with no interest whatsoever in the full decision or any alleged foul play. I have seen this movie before and I rate it three stars. It’s a weak, formulaic plot that you’ve seen many times but it’s still entertaining. Like a Liam Neeson revenge movie.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Yes that's fine. And the appeal was raised back in October. Now they have given Sinner 5 more months already. By this time there is no fear left for anyone else. Get caught and give bs reasons. Even if you get punished , it would take years.

The entire court system is corrupt. Endless appeals. There is no incentive to expedite. The CAS is a quasi-court/arbitrator but the same principles apply.
There is huge incentive to delay,delay, and then delay. More money for the lawyers and courtroom guards and judges.
The stench from the bench is making us clench!

 

[Bartelby]

There is a hearing and then there is an appeal. It doesn't get much simpler than that. The problem here is that the Tribunal decided to invent new principles.

The entire court system is corrupt. Endless appeals. There is no incentive to expedite. The CAS is a quasi-court/arbitrator but the same principles apply.
There is huge incentive to delay,delay, and then delay. More money for the lawyers and courtroom guards and judges.
The stench from the bench is making us clench!

 

[RSJfan]

The entire court system is corrupt. Endless appeals. There is no incentive to expedite. The CAS is a quasi-court/arbitrator but the same principles apply.
There is huge incentive to delay,delay, and then delay. More money for the lawyers and courtroom guards and judges.
The stench from the bench is making us clench!

One appeal = endless appeals. Dr Raul logic.

You can’t delay exercising your right to appeal or you lose it. There is nothing to suggest any party is trying to delay or how they could given the time frames for submissions are spelled out in the rules.

See the CAS Procedural Rules Secrion C for the timing of when briefs and exhibits are due. It‘s a short time frame. Your “delay” is the same complaint any lawyer or party would have that they want to get ahead on the calander but CAS can oversee only so many cases a year and has a fixed number of arbitrators to call on and limited resources. The arbitration is much quicker and cheaper than litigation/courts which is a prime reason for its appeal, pun intended.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

There is a hearing and then there is an appeal. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

Endless appeals apply to the public court system in general.
The doping system remains slow, non-transparent, corrupt and bureaucratic. It can be streamlined. Stop defending the slowness.

Halep criticized the International Tennis Integrity Agency (ITIA), saying:
"It can only be bad will on the part of ITIA, the organisation that did absolutely everything to destroy me despite the evidence.

Regarding the lengthy process and its impact, Halep commented:
"It was painful, is painful and maybe the injustice that was done to me will always be painful."

 

[Bartelby]

When it comes to BEVs you're all for slow. I thought you never got out of second gear!

Halep had to fund her own scientific research to get off and that takes time, so a long process worked to her advantage.

Endless appeals apply to the public court system in general.
The doping system remains slow, non-transparent, corrupt and bureaucratic. It can be streamlined. Stop defending the slowness.

Halep criticized the International Tennis Integrity Agency (ITIA), saying:
"It can only be bad will on the part of ITIA, the organisation that did absolutely everything to destroy me despite the evidence.

Regarding the lengthy process and its impact, Halep commented:
"It was painful, is painful and maybe the injustice that was done to me will always be painful."

 

[Sudacafan]

This thread is corrupt.
I am sure that users are receiving money from WADA or from Sinner's team to post the things I am reading.
Democracy died here the moment they nuked my petition thread, the only petition I made in my 7 years of TTW membership.
Shocked and appalled.

 

[RSJfan]

Endless appeals apply to the public court system in general.
The doping system remains slow, non-transparent, corrupt and bureaucratic. It can be streamlined. Stop defending the slowness.

Halep criticized the International Tennis Integrity Agency (ITIA), saying:
"It can only be bad will on the part of ITIA, the organisation that did absolutely everything to destroy me despite the evidence.

Regarding the lengthy process and its impact, Halep commented:
"It was painful, is painful and maybe the injustice that was done to me will always be painful."

Following his conviction El Chapo had nothing nice to say about the Eastern District of NY or the Metropolitan Correctional Center. His words before being shipped off to a Supermax prison:

”… the conditions of my confinements under which I’ve lived for the last 30 months have been total torture...It’s the most inhumane situation I’ve lived in my life. It’s been lack of respect for human dignity...When I was extradited to the United States I expected to have a fair trial, a trial where justice would be blind and where my fame, my reputation, would not be a determining factor in the administration of justice. But what happened was actually the opposite...I take advantage of this opportunity to say there was no justice here...”

 

[RSJfan]

This thread is corrupt.
I am sure that users are receiving money from WADA or from Sinner's team to post the things I am reading.
Democracy died here the moment they nuked my petition thread, the only petition I made in my 7 years of TTW membership.
Shocked and appalled.

I assumed you closed the poll and that “Yes” won. I have been acting based upon that belief and will continue to do so.

 

[roysid]

In an interview with Eurosport, Olivier Niggli, director of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA), clarified the reasons for appealing to the CAS in the Sinner case, which could lead to a suspension of one to two years for the world number one.

WADA's Position
“It was considered in the decision that Sinner was not at fault,” Niggli explained. “Our position is that there is still an athlete's responsibility towards his entourage. This is the legal point that will be debated before the CAS.”

The crux of the issue
The case concerns the contamination that occurred through Sinner's former physiotherapist, who had used a spray containing clostebol, a prohibited substance, on his hand. “We do not dispute the fact that it may have been a contamination,” Niggli specified, “but we believe that the application of the rules does not correspond to the jurisprudence.”

The Times
As confirmed to AFP, no decisions will be made before 2025, leaving Sinner in a situation of uncertainty for the coming months. A story that could have important repercussions not only on the career of the Italian tennis player, but also on sports jurisprudence regarding the responsibility of athletes.

Those two guys..from where they came from. They caused harm to Sinners case

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

When it comes to BEVs you're all for slow. I thought you never got out of second gear!

Parties are harmed if cases are not decided swiftly.

Nobody is harmed if the American transition to BEVs is put off until 2035 instead of 2030.

Very much to the contrary, your 2030 BEV mandate releases more C02 into the atmosphere in the near-term as BEVs and charging stations are rapidly built.

A compact BEV will reach carbon parity with a compact ICE vehicle after about 3 years of operation, assuming typical driving habits and energy consumption rates.​

​

This timeframe reflects the higher initial emissions associated with BEV production and the operational emissions based on the current electricity generation mix in the U.S.​

If our favourite climate alarmist Bart was truly interested in reducing his dreaded GHG emissions he would focus his agitation efforts towards Americans reducing beef consumption by 50% or so.
That would have an immediate effect on GHG emisions. Without inconveniencing and demonizing ordinary Americans simply commuting to work in their evil compact ICE.
Full Disclosure: BEV Bart drives a compact ICE.

Western Countries Must Cut Meat Consumption by 75% | Earth.Org

According to a new study, elevated meet consumption and climate change are strictly related. How does livestock affect our environment?

earth.org

https://www.weforum.org/stories/2019/08/global-meat-consumption-reduce-mitigate-effects-global-warming/

 

[Sudacafan]

I assumed you closed the poll and that “Yes” won. I have been acting based upon that belief and will continue to do so.

They beat me on it, but with the No leading.
Well, maybe it's better that way. Nobody will know that No won.

 

[RSJfan]

They beat me on it, but with the No leading.
Well, maybe it's better that way. Nobody will know that No won.

Unless I can review a certified audit of the poll results I will make Fedal threads with the assumption that “Yes“ won. I heard there is approximately a six month delay in processing certification requests so I will have a minimum of that amount of time to place Fedal threads in GPPD even if “No” incredibly managed to win. However, I will not post Egg threads to GPPD because Egg should have retired already so we don’t get anymore embarrassing Nardi matches and no one wants to see Egg posts in GPPD after he retires.

Your poll should have remained unmolested. It was well crafted and a very democratic exercise. You should consider taking your dispute with TTW moderators to arbitration. If you read Raul’s posts related to tennis arbitrations you can get a lot of good tips on strategy.

 

[RSJfan]

Parties are harmed if cases are not decided swiftly.

…

 

[insideguy]

Just a question. What agencies were in charge of the Russian figure skater case? She was like 14 when they were drugging her. That wasnt her fault. But they took her medal and the teams medal. So she wasnt at fault but the country pumped her full of dope. Is that any type of precedent in a case like this or does tennis just do its own thing.

 

[jackson vile]

If a third party contaminated Sinner's skin or body then he would be let off, but this is his team so they are not third parties but his agents.

If your lawyer acted without your consent and not in your best interest you should be liable for his negligence?

 

[jeroenn]

If a third party contaminated Sinner's skin or body then he would be let off, but this is his team so they are not third parties but his agents.

So an employee with a grudge, or one 'bought' by your competitors who wants you out, can 'accidently' apply a bit of cream and presto; you're banned for 2 years. That's about the size of it?

 

[Bartelby]

Don't be ridiculous! In such an unlikely event, a player simply has to provide evidence of an employee's grudge or betrayal.

So an employee with a grudge, or one 'bought' by your competitors who wants you out, can 'accidently' apply a bit of cream and presto; you're banned for 2 years. That's about the size of it?

 

[Bartelby]

See the answer given above. The Lawyer would also be liable for debarring by the legal profession.

If your lawyer acted without your consent and not in your best interest you should be liable for his negligence?

 

[jeroenn]

Don't be ridiculous! In such an unlikely event, a player simply has to provide evidence of an employee's grudge or betrayal.

'Simply'.....That's assuming you have evidence. And that is assuming a lot.

There have been a lot of arguments here on this board on how there is so much money involved and that is why the ATP turns a blind eye or there's unequal application of the rules, or as a big reason to actually do PED's.

So in that train of thoughts, it's not that far fetched that player X could bribe someone on player Y's staff to 'contaminate' and Player Y wouldn't even have to know about it. He gets tested postive, can't explain it, voila, one rival for player X bites the dust and gets booted for 4 years.

 

[Bartelby]

A few get away with such plots, presuming that anyone would do such a thing, but the overwhelming majority do not.

If you have no evidence that you were "framed" then it's quite possible that you are just searching for a story to sell.

'Simply'.....That's assuming you have evidence. And that is assuming a lot.

There have been a lot of arguments here on this board on how there is so much money involved and that is why the ATP turns a blind eye or there's unequal application of the rules, or as a big reason to actually do PED's.

So in that train of thoughts, it's not that far fetched that player X could bribe someone on player Y's staff to 'contaminate' and Player Y wouldn't even have to know about it. He gets tested postive, can't explain it, voila, one rival for player X bites the dust and gets booted for 4 years.

 

[jeroenn]

If you have no evidence that you were "framed" then it's quite possible that you are just searching for a story to sell.

My point, your head, they should meet.

 

[Bartelby]

You're too cryptic here so nothing meets!

My point, your head, they should meet.