Theory on the dreaded high 1hbh

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by StringSnapper, May 11, 2018.

  1. StringSnapper

    StringSnapper Professional

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    As most 1hbh players know a high ball to that side can be a real pain in the ass. But i think ive found the solution, as employed by mr. Federer

    The secret is to always inject pace into the rally. If the rally ends in 4 shots its unlikely they will have hit you a high 1hbh.

    If there is pace on the ball, it will be more difficult for your opponent to hit a super high ball to your bh. Theyll be fighting against the flow of the match. No one except Nadal really successfully wrestles control of a rally against Fed to send him high balls to his bh, cos everyone is always scrambling around the court cos of the immense pace on the ball.

    So the options are:
    1. play like fed with the more linear block bh and take it on the rise (and cover 3/4ths of the court with ur fh) or
    2. hit a wawrinka style circular bh usually hard and crosscourt (enables you to handle higher balls anyway, but perhaps with more power and less accuracy)

    Shapovalov seems to employ this tactic too. He doesn't get into long rallies where opponents can start rolling high balls to his bh, he keeps pace on the ball. Often going in for a volley after he rips his bh. Shapo is a lefty so its a fh to bh matchup crosscourt for him, making this even more important

    Maybe a reason why so little %of players seem to use a 1hbh but a much larger %seems to hover around the top 50, an aggressive game that dictates play seems to have a higher ceiling of potential
     
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  2. FiReFTW

    FiReFTW Hall of Fame

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    Hit it on the rise is the best solution if you are capable to do it.
     
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  3. StringSnapper

    StringSnapper Professional

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    i prefer wawrinkas bh myself, and he stands further back. Still rips the ball and generates pace though. He also doesnt leave his fh side open as much since he doesnt run over to his bh to hit fhs as much. (I think this is ideal for him too cos he isnt as fast as other top players)
     
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  4. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Hall of Fame

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    What if they serve a high kicker to your BH?
     
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  5. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Slice low and angled.
     
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  6. FedGR

    FedGR Rookie

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    I think a good approach is to not moonball back and put yourself in a situation where you don't feel comfortable. You need to go through the ball more (not windshield motion), with a little bit more aggressive grip.

    Another is to hit on the rise. Another approach is to slice wide. Another approach is to slice dtl to his fh. If you are able to employ this shot well then you will "restart" the point because if's a good low ball to his fh, they will 90% go cc. Another approach is to drop shot to their forehand. Another to hit a very high arc ball and go to the net.

    A lot of options, it depends on what feels comfortable. Mixing things is always my approach.
     
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  7. FedGR

    FedGR Rookie

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    Either go way back and rip your bh if you have that shot or you just move in and take it early.
     
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  8. Dou

    Dou Rookie

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    How about a real solution - learn how to hit the high ball? with proper technique you should be able to rip a ball at eye level.

    Learn how to load the shot with Internal Shoulder Rotation with RELAXED wrist, so that even when hitting a high ball the racket face is still CLOSED.

    That is the key.

    You can't hit a high ball because you have never been taught properly... there are lots of bad teachings out there.. " swing low to high" "fist the ball", "stay side ways", "left hand going back"... all these things that are either wrong, or have nothing to do with hitting the ball.



    the hit at 1:30... about nose high.. but he should have no problem if it was eye high... notice how the racket face is CLOSED going from the power position to the impact... learn that, and you won't be needing band-aids such as hitting on the rise or letting the ball drop or injecting pace lol
     
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  9. Kevo

    Kevo Hall of Fame

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    If you can hit your 1HBH hard like Stan does you can stand way back like he does and let it come down a little bit. I do that sometimes. I also will hit high loopers when the ball is above my head. You can reach a good ways above your head with a 1HBH, but you lose power up there so you have to make sure you get it back deep. Slice is also a good option if your comfortable hitting it. I like going down the line with the slice on high balls if they're not hit too hard. Makes it easier to hit it down and still clear the net.
     
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  10. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    If you know how to hit a traditional slice backhand, then you can easily handle high balls to your backhand. Unfortunately, the traditional slice backhand is a lost art in the modern game, including the top players like Mr. Federer.

    Check out the first 3 seconds of this Wilson tennis racquet ad. That is how to hit a high ball to the backhand.

     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
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  11. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    Well said! This is the answer! Learn to hit it

    How many players actually practice high balls to the bh??? Got to start there

    My footwork is terrible and my racquet way too heavy but I can hit better high Bhs than most my level so everyone should be doing it

     
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  12. Dou

    Dou Rookie

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    This is only 1 option, but useless if it's the only option.. slice doesn't have a dipping curvature and doesn't pass well.

    There is no such thing as a 'lost art'.. it's simply lost because it doesn't fit the game anymore.
     
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  13. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    I couldn’t disagree more. The topic is high bouncing balls to the backhand. In my view, a traditional slice backhand is the best option against a high bouncing, heavy topspin, ball to the backhand side. You can absolutely mash high balls if you know how to do it. There is no such thing as a lost art? Silly comment! Unfortunately, it is very much a lost art.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
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  14. Dou

    Dou Rookie

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    'In my view' are the keywords... as in from an amateur's perspective.. and I don't disagree, in recreational play anything goes. and for the purpose of this thread as the OP is also an amateur, a slice-down really aint that bad.

    But 'anything goes' does not go for the pros. Shot selection follows the jungle rule - the survival of the fittest. Players/coaches not only develop the most powerful weapon (clearly a topspin drive for 1h or 2hbh, you can hit harder with more margin because of the dipping curvature), they also scout each other to find any weakness. You don't see any pros who can only slice a backhand do you? such a player cannot survive on the tour.

    And let's leave 'Mr. Federer' out of the discussion. What is your profession? doctor? lawyer? accountant? whatever... say a random guy on the street, who knows nothing, tries to tell you how to do your trade...sounds reasonable? let alone the best doctor/lawyer/accountant? let alone the GOAT doctor/lawyer/account? yeah, that is basically how reasonable your comment is about Federer.
     
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  15. StringSnapper

    StringSnapper Professional

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    There are some pros who seem to survive with only a slice BH lol. Lopez comes to mind
     
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  16. Dou

    Dou Rookie

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    Lopez hits plenty of drives... you should be able to see some if you watch at least 10 minutes of his play lol... His drive is a little too old school for today's high spin game though, that's maybe why he doesn't use much. There is not enough ISR in the loading and the wrist is in a semi-stiff position, so his balls are quite flat.. old school like the Bryan brothers, and also Blake.

    You will almost certainly see a drive if he has to pass from the bh.
     
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  17. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Again, I disagree. Your comments “anything goes” and “random guy on the street” are condescending non sequiturs intended for what purpose? To discredit my position without addressing the substance of the issue - proper slice backhand technique that I am trying to share with the board?

    One again, a traditional slice backhand is (or would be), the most effective option against a high bouncing ball to the backhand at every level. Unfortunately, I am not aware of a single coach, personally or on line, even those who execute it beautifully themselves, who knows how to teach it correctly. I learned how to hit a slice backhand, and how to handle the high ball to the backhand, from watching the first 3 seconds of that Wilson ad that I posted above when it aired on TV. BJK’s emaculate technique in that ad was an epiphany for me.

    I invoked Mr. Federer in response to the OP who did the same.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
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  18. Dou

    Dou Rookie

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    lol.... you don't have to convince me... go on twitter and advice Federer directly.
     
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  19. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Sorry, you and we are not pro players.
    Rec player, 5.0 and down, won't be topspinning high backhands and still handle LOW backhands.
    And with only topspin, the net rusher soon learns to crowd the net.
    With slice, you can lob off the same prep, and hard low slices are difficult to volley. You also drop shot with slice.
     
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  20. Dou

    Dou Rookie

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    Goodness.. now all the people who can't hit a topspin backhand show up to say how great the slice is.
     
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  21. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Yup, it's nice to be able to slice.
     
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  22. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    I’m not trying to convince you. I write for the benefit of anyone who would like to improve their stroke production. You and others are free to do with the information what you wish. As for Federer, it seems that both Edberg and Ljubicic have had some positive influence in this respect in the past few years.
     
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  23. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    If you remember @tennis_balla ’s video, he demonstrates that you can also hit topspin off of what appears to be a slice setup, ala Laver and Roche. It’s beautifully deceptive.
     
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  24. onehandbh

    onehandbh Legend

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    Can you post a video of you hitting a traditional slice backhand?
     
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  25. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    I could but I won’t for reasons already explained numerous times. But, if you are interesting in learning the technique, see the video I posted above.
     
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  26. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    Man so much absolutism here. Why cant one hit both? And why can’t one hit topspin lobs?

    I practice both myself:
     
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  27. Dou

    Dou Rookie

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    there you go... we need more doers, instead of talkers :)
     
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  28. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    If I can do it most everyone can i imagine.

    Both have their advantages I imagine. I like the topspin mostly myself as it seems easier and is a stronger shot mostly
     
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  29. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    It all depends on your skills. However, in my view, all other things being equal, a traditional slice backhand is an easier skill to master than a topspin backhand and an easier option with which to handle high balls at any level of play, especially balls that are head height or above.
     
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  30. ubercat

    ubercat Rookie

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    Well since nobody can show us how to do it we won't be bringing back the Traditional slice.

    And since there s at least 4 variations of the modern slice how many shots do we need?

    @Shroud if you have this shot can you post a vid. I m happy to try it out. But I m really a paint by Numbers guy. I need good spot mo vid.

    On a more useful note I practice these by standing close to the wall and hitting down to send the ball into back corner.

    It's probably practice hitting off back foot. But as a OHBH that's most desparate defence ie when I really need the shot.

    Of course a ball machine with TS would be better but I don't have access to a court.
     
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  31. MasturB

    MasturB Legend

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    If you can't half volley or hit on rise, your best bet is to use a bit more wrist reverse windshield wiper at the top to give you more help. Otherwise you have a very thin margin to hit a high 1HBH and flatten it out for a winner. It can be done but the margins are so thin your timing has to be immaculate .

    That's for a topspin 1hbh.

    Slicing 1HBH on high balls is way easier.
     
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  32. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    Yikes if you are asking about slice then I am a bad bad example and hit that shot all wrong. It works for me but best not to copy shroud
    Iowa guy hits it well
     
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  33. StringSnapper

    StringSnapper Professional

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    We have to Dou.
     
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  34. StringSnapper

    StringSnapper Professional

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    Lol the sound of your ball machine winding up reminds me of the "bionic high one hand backhand" video


    Also I strongly agree with your opinion. So much absolutism happening. In the league i play in, my slice gets eaten alive at the net. Much better option to pummel it with a topspin. I'm sure some crafty players are better with slice though. theres no "right" answer
     
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  35. FedGR

    FedGR Rookie

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    The shot you are suggesting is the right shot to make but very few under 4.5 can do it consistently. You see professionals avoiding because depending on how high the ball is, the swing and the launch angle changes. It requires amazing timing, that's why very few people hit it.

    Also, hitting on the rise is not a band aid. It is strategy and it is used in order to take time away from your opponent.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
    #35
  36. styksnstryngs

    styksnstryngs Professional

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    FTFY... Us double handers have no issues.
     
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  37. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    No, most 2hbh block with some sidespin and slice combination.
     
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  38. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    No one can show you how to do it? Did you read the whole thread and watch all the videos?
     
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  39. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    If a tree falls in the forest, and nobody is around to video the event..did it happen?
     
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  40. styksnstryngs

    styksnstryngs Professional

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    Well I guess it all depends on who you're hitting with. I play high school tennis and everyone decent can hit normal topspin balls at head height.
     
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  41. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, low ones are tough to top but come on Leed. Topspin can neutralize the net guy with a well timed lob like at 8 sec even off the best player on the planet:

     
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  42. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    Maybe this

     
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  43. StringSnapper

    StringSnapper Professional

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    One of the "watch next" videos that came up after this finished was a video called "intercourse" with mature content. A french artsy short. Highly related to your BH ROS winners, the internet knows sex appeal and it comes in the form of a 1hbh
     
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  44. ubercat

    ubercat Rookie

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    Thanks @Shroud that one I will watch. I don't always understand Jeff s stuff but at least I have a chance. Obviously all the YouTube tennis coaches r wasting their time as anybody can just learn from Racquet commercials.
     
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  45. leojramirez

    leojramirez New User

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    I'd like to add to this as it is something we've been working with my coach. I've come to understand that most of us at club level are not professionals and cannot employ those tactics.
    I play on clay so the effects here magnifies and taking it on the raise is barely an option. The slice approach is good but as always with the slice you don't want to over do it. The key here is that you want to play a defensive high percentage shot and the best way to approach this is with early preparation and stepping back as much as necessary, so that instead of hitting the ball over your head you hit it at shoulder/head level brushing up for topspin. It does not matter if you lean backwards and shift your weight to your back leg, remember this is a defensive shot.
    As usual at first when learning new shots you will suck at it and your shots will land on the service box but once you are comfortable you can apply heavy spin deep cross court which will force your opponent to deal with the same uncomfortable shot from which he/she won't be able to attack the ball while also giving you time to recover for the next shot.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  46. Jimbud

    Jimbud Semi-Pro

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    That old Wilson ad is AWESOME! Classic and hilarious.....
     
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  47. StringSnapper

    StringSnapper Professional

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    I think this is the most realistic option for most people here
     
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  48. Dou

    Dou Rookie

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    RELAX your wrist to complete 'deadness' and rip up the back of the ball.... If I can describe it in 1 sentence, anybody can do it, 3.0 or 5.0.... problem is the old school people in the clubs don't know how to hit it and teach it.

    Someone mentioned clay - even more critical to be able to rip it there... slices sit up.
     
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  49. Dou

    Dou Rookie

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    RELAX your wrist to complete 'deadness' and rip up the back of the ball.... If I can describe it in 1 sentence, anybody can do it, 3.0 or 5.0.... problem is the old school people in the clubs don't know how to hit it and teach it.

    Someone mentioned clay - even more critical to be able to rip it there... slices sit up.
     
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  50. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Is the expenditure of energy hitting the above the shoulder 1hbh worth it in gain over the simple and effortless slice?
    Not talking theory PRO level, buy rec level up to 4.5.
     
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  51. jhick

    jhick Professional

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    Agreed. Learn to hit a reliable slice for the high 1 handed backhands.
     
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