There has never been a 3 slam season without winning Wimbledon before, will Novak do it first time.

Nadal_King

Hall of Fame
So in all 3 slam winning years only the one in which Wimbledon wasn’t won is still to taka place. Most occurring has been without Rg with Roger doing it thrice and Novak doing it twice. Without Ao was done by Rafa in 2010 and without Uo by Novak in 2021. Will Novak do it first time without Wimbledon
 
So in all 3 slam winning years only the one in which Wimbledon wasn’t won is still to taka place. Most occurring has been without Rg with Roger doing it thrice and Novak doing it twice. Without Ao was done by Rafa in 2010 and without Uo by Novak in 2021. Will Novak do it first time without Wimbledon
This is absolutely embarrassing – please delete this.
 
Despite the, ahem... "minor flaw" in OP's premise, it is actually almost true; men who win three slams in a season do tend to be Wimbledon champions. Mats Wilander is literally the only outlier...

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The complete list on the women's side for comparison is as follows.

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Hitman

Bionic Poster
Hmmmm. Alcaraz had a tough draw two weeks ago on a surface he was green on (excuse the pun) Novak didn’t punish him….

Yes, but also he was one point away from sealing the match. And at Wimbledon Djokovic made the very fatal mistake of underestimating Alcaraz.

When I see Wimbledon 2023, it reminds me of Federer USO 2009, both were riding high of getting the slam record and both in a way were becoming victims of their own sense of perceived invincibility. Djokovic didn't expect the match he got and that is on him, there is no way he will ever let his guard down again.

Now, can he be simply outplayed by Alcaraz in USO? Yes, he can. But will he go in underestimating Alcaraz again, no chance. Plus Alcaraz didn't lose a set in the quarters or semis, so while he played two decent players, outside of the first set against Rune, lets be honest, he faced very little resistance. Medvedev just rolled over in the semi.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Yes, but also he was one point away from sealing the match. And at Wimbledon Djokovic made the very fatal mistake of underestimating Alcaraz.

When I see Wimbledon 2023, it reminds me of Federer USO 2009, both were riding high of getting the slam record and both in a way were becoming victims of their own sense of perceived invincibility. Djokovic didn't expect the match he got and that is on him, there is no way he will ever let his guard down again.

Now, can he be simply outplayed by Alcaraz in USO? Yes, he can. But will he go in underestimating Alcaraz again, no chance. Plus Alcaraz didn't lose a set in the quarters or semis, so while he played two decent players, outside of the first set against Rune, lets be honest, he faced very little resistance. Medvedev just rolled over in the semi.
I don't think Djokovic underestimated Alcaraz.

Nole respects Carlos too much. So he plays his best in these matched. Like first sets of all 3 matches.

Problem is not with underestimating. Alcaraz is becoming his peer. And he is probably mentally even stronger based on his stats.
 

Rattie

Legend
Yes, but also he was one point away from sealing the match. And at Wimbledon Djokovic made the very fatal mistake of underestimating Alcaraz.

When I see Wimbledon 2023, it reminds me of Federer USO 2009, both were riding high of getting the slam record and both in a way were becoming victims of their own sense of perceived invincibility. Djokovic didn't expect the match he got and that is on him, there is no way he will ever let his guard down again.

Now, can he be simply outplayed by Alcaraz in USO? Yes, he can. But will he go in underestimating Alcaraz again, no chance. Plus Alcaraz didn't lose a set in the quarters or semis, so while he played two decent players, outside of the first set against Rune, lets be honest, he faced very little resistance. Medvedev just rolled over in the semi.
You mean the set point in the 2nd?

I would agree, Djokovic underestimated Carlos. Effectively he said it himself in the post match interview. And yes, he won’t make that mistake twice.

What he can’t control is Father Time. It hasn’t really been mentioned much in here but to my eyes Novak looked pretty weary in the later stages of the match while Carlos was as fresh as a daisy.

Agreed, Carlos had little resistance in the Rune and Med matches but in the USO he played many five setters. Endurance is not an issue for Alcaraz, not at his age. It is for a 36 yr old.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
I don't think Djokovic underestimated Alcaraz.

Nole respects Carlos too much. So he plays his best in these matched. Like first sets of all 3 matches.

Problem is not with underestimating. Alcaraz is becoming his peer. And he is probably mentally even stronger based on his stats.

The fact he said - Now I need to worry about you on grass - Was a very telling thing. After beating Alcaraz on a surface and conditions that were much better suited to Alcaraz in Paris, playing him on a surface that was almost alien to CA seemed like a much better scenario. Add to the fact Djokovic had won some super clutch Wimbledons, had the slam record, IMO he did underestimate him to a degree.

That will not happen again.

I want to say this though, Djokovic did play well, at the end of the day Alcaraz was the better player and won, but I don't really think Djokovic was at mentally prepared as he was at RG. That second set, his mind just went AWOL at the start, serve vanished, and then in the tie-break completely bad UE shots cost him.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
You mean the set point in the 2nd?

I would agree, Djokovic underestimated Carlos. Effectively he said it himself in the post match interview. And yes, he won’t make that mistake twice.

What he can’t control is Father Time. It hasn’t really been mentioned much in here but to my eyes Novak looked pretty weary in the later stages of the match while Carlos was as fresh as a daisy.

Agreed, Carlos had little resistance in the Rune and Med matches but in the USO he played many five setters. Endurance is not an issue for Alcaraz, not at his age. It is for a 36 yr old.
Nole lacked strength to hit through the wind. His legs seemed heavy. On pts won they were roughly same. So I know Carlos has as many things to improve as Novak has going wrong.

I think Nole has 2 more years where he has to trade wins with Carlos.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
You mean the set point in the 2nd?

I would agree, Djokovic underestimated Carlos. Effectively he said it himself in the post match interview. And yes, he won’t make that mistake twice.

What he can’t control is Father Time. It hasn’t really been mentioned much in here but to my eyes Novak looked pretty weary in the later stages of the match while Carlos was as fresh as a daisy.

Agreed, Carlos had little resistance in the Rune and Med matches but in the USO he played many five setters. Endurance is not an issue for Alcaraz, not at his age. It is for a 36 yr old.

Tired though can be a factor in a concentrated small period.

Think about it like this, suppose Alcaraz goes five sets in the quarters and semis and heads into the finals to take on a fresh Djokovic, that right there puts him at a disadvantage.

So my point still stands, Djokovic will never underestimate Alcaraz again, ever....and if he gets to the final fresher than Alcaraz, who has a few tough five setters along the way, Djokovic WILL punish him.
 

Rattie

Legend
Nole lacked strength to hit through the wind. His legs seemed heavy. On pts won they were roughly same. So I know Carlos has as many things to improve as Novak has going wrong.

I think Nole has 2 more years where he has to trade wins with Carlos.
Possibly. The difference is Novak has long been confident he doesn’t really face a threat unless it’s Rafa. Not any more.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
The fact he said - Now I need to worry about you on grass - Was a very telling thing. After beating Alcaraz on a surface and conditions that were much better suited to Alcaraz in Paris, playing him on a surface that was almost alien to CA seemed like a much better scenario. Add to the fact Djokovic had won some super clutch Wimbledons, had the slam record, IMO he did underestimate him to a degree.

That will not happen again.

I want to say this though, Djokovic did play well, at the end of the day Alcaraz was the better player and won, but I don't really think Djokovic was at mentally prepared as he was at RG. That second set, his mind just went AWOL at the start, serve vanished, and then in the tie-break completely bad UE shots cost him.
How can he improve in the second set?
 

Rattie

Legend
Tired though can be a factor in a concentrated small period.

Think about it like this, suppose Alcaraz goes five sets in the quarters and semis and heads into the finals to take on a fresh Djokovic, that right there puts him at a disadvantage.

So my point still stands, Djokovic will never underestimate Alcaraz again, ever....and if he gets to the final fresher than Alcaraz, who has a few tough five setters along the way, Djokovic WILL punish him.
Perhaps. That is a lot of ifs.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Perhaps. That is a lot of ifs.

But that is what I am discussing anyway, a potential hypothetical. It cannot be ruled out. Alcaraz looked vulnerable against Jarry in the third round, and he was very lucky it didn't go five at W.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Tired though can be a factor in a concentrated small period.

Think about it like this, suppose Alcaraz goes five sets in the quarters and semis and heads into the finals to take on a fresh Djokovic, that right there puts him at a disadvantage.

So my point still stands, Djokovic will never underestimate Alcaraz again, ever....and if he gets to the final fresher than Alcaraz, who has a few tough five setters along the way, Djokovic WILL punish him.
Who can take him to five now? That is the question. Carlos is unique. He is totally complete player who trashes top 5/ top 10 like they are wildcards.

This is catch 22. I always wanted Rafa tired before RG finals but who could do that. Nole could reach the final but he would have to play his best. While Rafa being dominant would roll through to the final.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
What do you mean?

Are you talking about Djokovic's play? Well his serve went straight to hell, it was one of the worst serving performances from him I have seen in a very very long time.
Was it ? Was it worse than USO 2016 or Wimby 2019. I will remind he lost 1 and won another and in both he served much worse.

Nole hit 64 % first serves and he won a hell of pts on second serves. And people are telling Carlos is among the hardest to ace players. He is so good at returning that it does make his opponent look serving bad.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Who can take him to five now? That is the question. Carlos is unique. He is totally complete player who trashes top 5/ top 10 like they are wildcards.

This is catch 22. I always wanted Rafa tired before RG finals but who could do that. Nole could reach the final but he would have to play his best. While Rafa being dominant would roll through to the final.

Alcaraz is a fantastic player, but lets not act like he is invincible. If he plays Sinner again, he will still have to deal with that match up problem. Sinner is one guy who can not only rob Alcaraz of time, but hit him off the court, we saw it last year at USO where he was a point away, and we saw him outplay CA in Miami.

The question is also about him dealing with the pressure for the first time as the defending champion. He went under the radar at USO, all the way, he was just one of the potential winners. At Wimbledon he was the complete underdog. At RG, he was the fav and we saw what happened.

So, while I have him as at least co fav for USO, he is not a lock for the title. Now if he comes in and cleans house in Canada and Cincinnati, we can take another look.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Was it ? Was it worse than USO 2016 or Wimby 2019. I will remind he lost 1 and won another and in both he served much worse.

Nole hit 64 % first serves and he won a hell of pts on second serves. And people are telling Carlos is among the hardest to ace players. He is so good at returning that it does make his opponent look serving bad.

Djokovic is known for pinpoint placement serving. He simply didn't find his spots, now a part of that had to do with Djokovic not adjusting well to conditions, but his serving on key points was simply not there. I think he served only two aces the whole match, Raz is good, he isn't that good.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Alcaraz is a fantastic player, but lets not act like he is invincible. If he plays Sinner again, he will still have to deal with that match up problem. Sinner is one guy who can not only rob Alcaraz of time, but hit him off the court, we saw it last year at USO where he was a point away, and he saw him outplay CA in Miami.

The question is also about him dealing with the pressure for the first time as the defending champion. He went under the radar at USO, all the way, he was just one of the potential winners. At Wimbledon he was the complete underdog. At RG, he was the fav and we saw what happened.

So, while I have him as at least co fav for USO, he is not a lock for the title. Now if he comes in and cleans house in Canada and Cincinnati, we can take another look.
I know he is not lock but only guy I can see beating him right now is Nole.

He literally creamed Tsitsipas Berrettini and Medvedev in the last 2 slams. I am never going to underrate that performance.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
I know he is not lock but only guy I can see beating him right now is Nole.

He literally creamed Tsitsipas Berrettini and Medvedev in the last 2 slams. I am never going to underrate that performance.

That is fine. But the point I am making is, IF Alcaraz doesn't steamroll through his draw and is made to work through it to get to Djokovic, while Novak gets a much easier path, that will spell trouble for Alcaraz.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
That is fine. But the point I am making is, IF Alcaraz doesn't steamroll through his draw and is made to work through it to get to Djokovic, while Novak gets a much easier path, that will spell trouble for Alcaraz.
I competely forgot. Rune didn't win a single set vs him. Who is going to take 2 sets away from Raz now? Sinner?
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Are you talking about Djokovic's play? Well his serve went straight to hell, it was one of the worst serving performances from him I have seen in a very very long time.
I agree, but bizarrely, Novak's backhand also let him down, which is highly unusual since he has one of the greatest BH's in tennis history. He made two crucial BH errors in the second set TB on absolute sitters. I don't think he's done this since 2009, literally. His BH is solid as a rock.

But these types of close matches have gone his way for many, many years. At 36, this won't be happening as much.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
I agree, but bizarrely, Novak's backhand also let him down, which is highly unusual since he has one of the greatest BH's in tennis history. He made two crucial BH errors in the second set TB on absolute sitters. I don't think he's done this since 2009, literally. His BH is solid as a rock.

But these types of close matches have gone his way for many, many years. At 36, this won't be happening as much.

Yes, I have spoken about how he just hit sitters into the net on standard rally balls.

He was bound to lose such a match, so it is what it is, but you can see one thing clearly, Alcaraz didn't outplay him, he simply was steadier in the key moments more. And when the players are that closely matched, that is all it takes to tip the scales.
 
Who can take him to five now? That is the question. Carlos is unique. He is totally complete player who trashes top 5/ top 10 like they are wildcards.

This is catch 22. I always wanted Rafa tired before RG finals but who could do that. Nole could reach the final but he would have to play his best. While Rafa being dominant would roll through to the final.
Alcaraz is far from invincible. He’s very good but he was still pushed all the way to win his first 2 slams. He may got more dominant but players can still exploit his game a bit and take sets.

He’s not at the level of peak Nadal at RG where he’s a lock for the title without dropping a set. Same for Novak at Australia or Fed when he dominated Wimbledon and us open in the 2000’s.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Alcaraz is far from invincible. He’s very good but he was still pushed all the way to win his first 2 slams. He may got more dominant but players can still exploit his game a bit and take sets.

He’s not at the level of peak Nadal at RG where he’s a lock for the title without dropping a set. Same for Novak at Australia or Fed when he dominated Wimbledon and us open in the 2000’s.
It's like Carlos is number 2 fav at AO to Nole but if I see him play anyone else he might be looking for easy victory. I don't see many that can beat him.
 
Yes, I have spoken about how he just hit sitters into the net on standard rally balls.

He was bound to lose such a match, so it is what it is, but you can see one thing clearly, Alcaraz didn't outplay him, he simply was steadier in the key moments more. And when the players are that closely matched, that is all it takes to tip the scales.
I feel as great as Alcaraz was, Djokovic also helped him out at times.

I feel the BH was a bit more error prone and the serve wasn’t great. Playing alcaraz probably affected Novak a bit but his whole game wasn’t firing like we seen in previous matches. He looked better in Australia and French compared to Wimbledon this year.
 
It's like Carlos is number 2 fav at AO to Nole but if I see him play anyone else he might be looking for easy victory. I don't see many that can beat him.
Yeah but we can’t rule out the burnout factor or he could have a bad day.

Can Carlos still win when his plan A game doesn’t work. He probably can but I still think there will be tournaments and matches where he gets frustrated as he’s still figuring things out.

Alcaraz is in the top 2 favourites nearly everywhere now but I still don’t see him cleaning everything up in sight yet.

I think he likes it when the pressure is off him too. Mentally Wimbledon was easier for him due to less expectation on grass. It will be the opposite in New York with big pressure on him. Let’s see how he deals with it.
 
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Nole has never hit 80% in slam final I think. The farther you go, the harder the opposition is.
He’s been closer to it though. Ok not 80% but he’s been over 70% and close to 75%.

It was just the first serve but even on 2nd serves he didn’t always hit them with the authority we seen in other matches or other slams. He just seemed a bit flat on serve in general.
 
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