There is no GOAT. -Djokovic

Antonio Puente

Hall of Fame
Don't worry about GOAT. Worry about being slam king and masters king. GOAT is just an opinion anyway. Being slam king and masters king is a demonstrable fact.
 

tudwell

Legend
The same players who challenge on grass and hardcourt are there to challenge anyone on clay. That Nadal is just too good is another story.
Yeah, but... that’s the point. Thiem is the only person to even consistently meet Nadal let alone be able to beat him. And he’s yet to win a Masters.
 

tudwell

Legend
And your point is?
I guess my point is that if beating guys like Hewitt, Agassi, and Roddick consistently to win the US Open constitutes a weak era, then beating Thiem as your only major rival is just laughable. So maybe show a little more respect for players of the past who could actually win sizable titles or whatever.
 

clayqueen

G.O.A.T.
I guess my point is that if beating guys like Hewitt, Agassi, and Roddick consistently to win the US Open constitutes a weak era, then beating Thiem as your only major rival is just laughable. So maybe show a little more respect for players of the past who could actually win sizable titles or whatever.
Why are Djokovic, Federer, Stan not considered rivals for Nadal on clay?
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
I'd like to give you 10 likes for this:
I told you before, it seems I need to clarify it again, it is not about what Federer achieved, it is about what Sampras achieved. Federer followed his footsteps because what Sampras did was seen as GOAT and yes even back then ATP ignored masters series events. In case you don't remember Sampras had 11 Masters series titles to Agassi's 17, and no one back then used that as a case to even have that as any sort of argument against Pete, so they wouldn't do it going forward, because that is changing goal posts...which takes it back to something not only Djokovic is saying now, but what Federer himself has said many times and something many, including myself agree with....there is no GOAT of anything, you simply cannot compare eras in tennis.

GOAT is a sensational way to advertise the game to attract a large audience, it is about making money, simple as that.
It all started with Sampras. Can't believe people are not smart enough to figure that out. That's the first thing.

Second: The guys at the top of the game now are intelligent, and as they get older learn (even) more about tennis history, they are smart enough not to insult the great champions of the past. If Novak has been saying that there is no GOAT, kudos to him!
 

Gary Duane

G.O.A.T.
That just proves how good he is on the surface.
It's also a mini version of the whole tour, but more so. If one guy totally dominates on a surface, everyone else starts to at least partially give up.

Don't know if you ever heard about this ad, which goes back decades:

 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
The same players who challenge on grass and hardcourt are there to challenge anyone on clay. That Nadal is just too good is another story.
Yes, Nadal is just too good, but when Federer wins five USO in a row, that is rationalized as weak era...Talk about having your cake and eating it.
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
Laver was GOAT before Federer.

The Sampras slam chase was indeed as you state in your final paragraph. But that wasn’t really what decided GOAT.
I am sure there was GOAT even before Laver, and there will likely be another one in the 30 years.
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
THERE IS A GOAT. We just won't ever know who it is.
There isn't a GOAT unless you can use a time machine and transport players around in time, give them the access to the same training, medicine, and technology of that time and then have them play on all the varying surfaces throughout history. Tennis is one of the few sports where it is most difficult IMO to actually know who is GOAT.
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
I'd like to give you 10 likes for this:

It all started with Sampras. Can't believe people are not smart enough to figure that out. That's the first thing.

Second: The guys at the top of the game now are intelligent, and as they get older learn (even) more about tennis history, they are smart enough not to insult the great champions of the past. If Novak has been saying that there is no GOAT, kudos to him!
Absolutely, his real fight is to find out if he was the best of his time.
 

duaneeo

Hall of Fame
Who is the GOAT is discussed/argued in every sport...who's the greatest golfer, basketball player, quarterback, boxer, sprinter, swimmer, figure skater, gymnast...and yes, tennis player. I think Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic all know this, and each wants his name said by most when the question is asked.
 

FRV2

Semi-Pro
There isn't a GOAT unless you can use a time machine and transport players around in time, give them the access to the same training, medicine, and technology of that time and then have them play on all the varying surfaces throughout history. Tennis is one of the few sports where it is most difficult IMO to actually know who is GOAT.
Yes, what you say is true. Now that I think about it, it may be that if both Laver and, let's say, Federer played in Laver's time, then Laver would be greater, but if they both played in Federer's time, then Federer would be greater. So there really is no GOAT..... I'm going with Federer.
 
Of course there is no GOAT, and there never has been. Never understood why people think we need one. There is not one stat that can do it, not even slams (most important though).

GOATist people ruin many things and we get no where with it. Meanwhile we miss the great tennis and players we have. I love Fed and like Rafa a lot, and dislike Djoker, but they all are all great and need to be enjoyed while still playing great.

No need to ruin it with GOATist junk.
 

Krish0608

Hall of Fame
Federer has been saying this all along. There are generational GOATs. Not one single GOAT across generations in a continuously evolving sport. The sport played by Laver and Djokovic are two completely different sports with just the same rules.
 

TennisFan3

Legend
Excellent comment by Novak. There is no one GOAT.

It's the player you liked the most. That's the GOAT for you - it's subjective and cannot be objective because it's impossible to compare.
 

RaulRamirez

Hall of Fame
Essentially, I agree with Novak.
As hard as it is to compare any of The Big 3 with Sampras and Borg, it is even harder to compare any of them with, Laver, Rosewall, Gonzales and those who preceded them.

Still, when discussed honestly and with a sense of appreciation, it is not a bad thing to compare the careers of the three most accomplished players of the Open Era, who are still dominating the tour.

Of course, they are all still playing...
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
No player will ever describe themselves as GOAT. Why would they? They would take a huge amount of flak for doing so.
What they believe in their hearts might be very different though.
 

ForehandRF

Professional
Shanghai 2010 final vs Federer
AO 2010 QF vs Nadal
Canada 2010 final vs Federer
Olympics SF/F vs Murray/Djokovic in 2012.
HELL YEAH he is the GOAT when he plays like that.
To this day it's remarcable how many problems Murray used to cause to Fed on BO3 back in those days :)
 

ForehandRF

Professional
Djokovic believes you cannot pick the greatest player ever for a simple reason because: You cannot compare tennis 50 years ago and now.
Laver, McEnroe, Connors, Lendl. They played with wooden rackets, it was a different kind of tennis: rhythm, whole Tour. Who knows how good would those players be now?"
https://www.tennisworld usa.org/tennis/news/Roger_Federer/75672/novak-djokovic-speaks-about-his-relationship-with-roger-federer/

I doubt that what Nole said makes sense to many people around this board and I really can't imagine how this place would look like without this imaginary "goat" whom 95% of TTWers believe in, Lol.
Now he says there is no GOAT but he said so many times in the past that Fed is the greatest.He changed his mind after the Wimbledon Final ? Well, it looks like :D
 

ABCD

Hall of Fame
To this day it's remarcable how many problems Murray used to cause to Fed on BO3 back in those days :)
Well spotted. Federer did not fully develop his game back then. He reached his full potential in the last 4-5 years, which led to better results against Murray and Nadal.
 

KINGROGER

G.O.A.T.
Well spotted. Federer did not fully develop his game back then. He reached his full potential in the last 4-5 years, which led to better results against Murray and Nadal.
But worse results against Djokovic, so obviously not his “full potential”.
 

BHud

Hall of Fame
Well spotted. Federer did not fully develop his game back then. He reached his full potential in the last 4-5 years, which led to better results against Murray and Nadal.
Murray :-D :-D :-D Not even in the conversation...
 

hipolymer

Hall of Fame
Far cry from where he was in 2011, calling Rafa as GOAT when he only had 10 slams. Shows you the mentality he had back then, and really shows you why he underperformed after 2011 (because he still had that Rafa complex even after beating him 6 times in a row)
 
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