There is no right or wrong way

#3
If it holds up tomorrow without breaking down i'llbe convinced, looking forward to a good final vs Djokovic
Djokovic vs Kachanov final. Special K is on fire at the moment and Djokovic had a real tough one vs Fed. Nole still the fav but Kachanovs odds have gotta come down after his recent performances.

Kachanovs fh is a real hammer. My sons coach has started to introduce a similar style of take back on my sons fh and in practise works well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

acintya

Hall of Fame
#4
Djokovic vs Kachanov final. Special K is on fire at the moment and Djokovic had a real tough one vs Fed. Nole still the fav but Kachanovs odds have gotta come down after his recent performances.

Kachanovs fh is a real hammer. My sons coach has started to introduce a similar style of take back on my sons fh and in practise works well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
really? whats the reason? is your son using full western like Kachanov (am i right?) I also find a lower takeback great.. once i also watched a Jeff Salzenstein video where he said that he also preffers the lower takeback more.. 70% of pros use the high takeback and coaches teach it that way too.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
#5
who teaches this? No one. Similar to Sock.
Interesting that his neutral grip while waiting for his oppoent's ball is his western FH...

Compare to someone like Wawrinka who waits in continental grip (even though he only infrequently uses it for slice BH).
 

acintya

Hall of Fame
#6
Interesting that his neutral grip while waiting for his oppoent's ball is his western FH...

Compare to someone like Wawrinka who waits in continental grip (even though he only infrequently uses it for slice BH).
exactly like me - only that i wait in SW but I will maybe switch to full western! nadals neutral grip is also his forehand grip. :)

what is intersting is - that all online coaches teach that you should bring your racquet back with your non dominant hand - holding it at the throat. well - Kachanov is NOT doing it like that. He takes the racquet back with his arm not with the shoulder turn. interesting ****
 
#7
really? whats the reason? is your son using full western like Kachanov (am i right?) I also find a lower takeback great.. once i also watched a Jeff Salzenstein video where he said that he also preffers the lower takeback more.. 70% of pros use the high takeback and coaches teach it that way too.
My sons fh grip is SW toward 3/4 Western - slightly in between. The coach is a former slam player so I’ll trust his judgement but I can see that the take back helps my son take the ball earlier and encourages him to make better use of his legs. He doesn’t coach a low take back but a wider rather than straight backward take.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#9
exactly like me - only that i wait in SW but I will maybe switch to full western! nadals neutral grip is also his forehand grip. :)

what is intersting is - that all online coaches teach that you should bring your racquet back with your non dominant hand - holding it at the throat. well - Kachanov is NOT doing it like that. He takes the racquet back with his arm not with the shoulder turn. interesting ****
Would love to see this forehand of yours! Sounds devastating!
 
#10
...........................................

............... He takes the racquet back with his arm not with the shoulder turn. .............
Maybe we looked at different forehands -

For the one forehand I looked at at 13 sec, he appears to have normal range shoulder turn. I'd estimate about 90 degrees from takeback max angle to impact.

He may get more of that with feet and hip turn and less from trunk twist, ? but that would take a study to determine and the summed result of pelvis turn and trunk turn is that the uppermost body turns.

The off arm may just go along for the ride and not be helping the racket. ?? But if the off hand is on the racket it goes back farther in a reproducible way. That allows the off arm a longer motion to accelerate and then be pulled in for extra uppermost body turn speed as discussed recently.
 
Last edited:

acintya

Hall of Fame
#15
Maybe we looked at different forehands -

For the one forehand I looked at at 13 sec, he appears to have normal range shoulder turn. I'd estimate about 90 degrees from takeback max angle to impact.

He may get more of that with feet and hip turn and less from trunk twist, ? but that would take a study to determine and the summed result of pelvis turn and trunk turn is that the uppermost body turns.

The off arm may just go along for the ride and not be helping the racket. ?? But if the off hand is on the racket it goes back farther in a reproducible way. That allows the off arm a longer motion to accelerate and then be pulled in for extra uppermost body turn speed as discussed recently.
yes. i just wanted to say that I think he is not taking the racquet back with his non dominant hand and shoulder so excessive as manny coaches teach. The left hand leaves the racquet very soon - in the starting phase of the takeback. if you compare it to Nishikori:


but lets only add that even PROS change their takebacks sometimes, they are improving or going in the wrong direction. They want to evolve I guess:

read this boys & girls:

http://betatennis.com/nadals-forehand-evolution-is-this-the-cause-of-his-slump/

maybe i am analyzing too much but it has helped me a lot. At the end of the day we need to stop thinking and just hit it in the most natural way - and every person has its own way. From all the things - the elbow raise and watching the ball has helped me the most - and lets not forget the Adrin Himelheber drill - Coach Kyril`s drill is good too.
 

acintya

Hall of Fame
#16
@acintya

Now that @Curious is no longer starting all these new posts, you have taken his place! Please follow in his footsteps and provide videos so we can better understand what you are writing about.
i dont get it - are you make fun out of me or are you just joking? :p anyways as long as i watch or play tennis i will be coming up with this threads :D
 

acintya

Hall of Fame
#17
Would love to see this forehand of yours! Sounds devastating!
my right is pretty heavy. but now i am learning a left handed forehand for three months now - i am slowly improving - i am doing it technically perfect - that was my idea - to start slow and in the right way so that later i will not have any flaws on my forehand.
 
#18
my right is pretty heavy. but now i am learning a left handed forehand for three months now - i am slowly improving - i am doing it technically perfect - that was my idea - to start slow and in the right way so that later i will not have any flaws on my forehand.
Would love to see videos of the heavy right and how the lefty fh is progressing.
 
#19
i dont get it - are you make fun out of me or are you just joking? :p anyways as long as i watch or play tennis i will be coming up with this threads :D
Not making fun or joking. Curious would start threads and include videos which would illustrate his understanding about the thread topic.
 

ChaelAZ

Hall of Fame
#21

who teaches this? No one. Similar to Sock.

I always bring that up with coaches, what they would do if a young player was with them and they had a stroke that was considered outside the prototypical mechanics, or even extreme like a Sock. We've seen some real doozies in HS tennis and in my son's program. At the end of the day, unless they are having issues in match play, and depending on just how far they are looking to go, if they can hit with pace, weight, and consistency, you let them play their style.
 

acintya

Hall of Fame
#23
Would love to see videos of the heavy right and how the lefty fh is progressing.
maybe when I will have a new phone. Currently im on a 13 year old phone with a damaged camera. i am only little worried if i will ever bting the power of my left near my strong right. i am doing a lot of other thing in real life with the left hand to improve it. but the most speed and power is in the rotation\turn and not in the hand itself.
 
#26
1. all pros vary their forehand techniques

2. the minute details of the take back are not that important as long as they hit the key check points

3. hitting out in front, having a good finish and trying to get on the front foot when possible are way more important than take back details or tiafoe's hitch or khach's one arm take back
 

acintya

Hall of Fame
#27
1. all pros vary their forehand techniques

2. the minute details of the take back are not that important as long as they hit the key check points

3. hitting out in front, having a good finish and trying to get on the front foot when possible are way more important than take back details or tiafoe's hitch or khach's one arm take back
you are absolutely right but its nice to observe and study tennis
 

ChaelAZ

Hall of Fame
#29
3. hitting out in front, having a good finish and trying to get on the front foot when possible are way more important than take back details or tiafoe's hitch or khach's one arm take back
Agree. Forward contact point is a big key.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#30
High or low does not matter, you just have to get to the pat the dog position and he does that. The only unique think kachanov does is that he separates the hands early instead of unit turning two handed.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
#31
To me his forehand looks different than most pro players, almost unorthodox looking. But it’s a great forehand and I love watching him rip that thing, truly amazing the way he pushed joker around the court.

I think there are some here that are so hung up on perfect technique that they can’t admit when a pro player doesn’t use it.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
#33
Pros don’t all look the same and do the exact same things when they hit their forehands but they all do the key fundamentals and they don’t arm the ball.
Who said anything about arming the ball? What exactly are the key fundamentals?
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
#35
That’s what you do and there’s no pro that hits like you regardless of how different they takeback the racquet.
I never said that a pro arms the ball like I do so I’m not sure what you mean. I was talking about his forehand looking a little unorthodox, which has nothing to do with the way I hit I’m not sure how that came into this discussion.
 
#36
I never said that a pro arms the ball like I do so I’m not sure what you mean. I was talking about his forehand looking a little unorthodox, which has nothing to do with the way I hit I’m not sure how that came into this discussion.
Pros don’t all hit the same “style” forehand. They have different take backs. They have different swing paths. Some have straight arm. Some have double bend. They may have different follow throughs. But they all turn their torsos and drop their racquets into the slot. They all generate power by uncoiling their torso. These are the essential fundamental elements.
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
#37
Pros don’t all hit the same “style” forehand. They have different take backs. They have different swing paths. Some have straight arm. Some have double bend. They may have different follow throughs. But they all turn their torsos and drop their racquets into the slot. They all generate power by uncoiling their torso. These are the essential fundamental elements.
Ya that makes sense, it does look like they all get power by uncoiling.
 
#38
Ya that makes sense, it does look like they all get power by uncoiling.
That’s why khachanov isn’t doing anything “different” compared to the other pros. His fh contains the same fundamental elements. His stylistic elements are different but they aren’t important.
 
#39
yes. i just wanted to say that I think he is not taking the racquet back with his non dominant hand and shoulder so excessive as manny coaches teach. The left hand leaves the racquet very soon - in the starting phase of the takeback. if you compare it to Nishikori:


but lets only add that even PROS change their takebacks sometimes, they are improving or going in the wrong direction. They want to evolve I guess:

read this boys & girls:

http://betatennis.com/nadals-forehand-evolution-is-this-the-cause-of-his-slump/

maybe i am analyzing too much but it has helped me a lot. At the end of the day we need to stop thinking and just hit it in the most natural way - and every person has its own way. From all the things - the elbow raise and watching the ball has helped me the most - and lets not forget the Adrin Himelheber drill - Coach Kyril`s drill is good too.
Khachanov serve is interesting, he goes up through trophy almost at same time as toss, quick motion, like the pinpoint for stepping into it forward motion and great drive up, easy on the knees. My new serve
 

Dragy

Professional
#40
really? whats the reason? is your son using full western like Kachanov (am i right?) I also find a lower takeback great.. once i also watched a Jeff Salzenstein video where he said that he also preffers the lower takeback more.. 70% of pros use the high takeback and coaches teach it that way too.
I just took a closer look and crazy guy holds it hawaiian:

@nytennisaddict you followed the crowd and missed your Masters title opportunity years ago (your weight was possibly also close to Karen's so evidently).
 

acintya

Hall of Fame
#43
His index knuckle is on bevel 6. Trust your eyes, everyone was calling Nadal's grip "extremely closed".
well i know the positions and thanks. man I should never again listen to others but trust only my eyes like you said. that grip is very uncommon but I like surprises! but if you are so tall (1,98m!) such grip is very hard on low balls. interesting stuff!
 

Dragy

Professional
#44
well i know the positions and thanks. man I should never again listen to others but trust only my eyes like you said. that grip is very uncommon but I like surprises! but if you are so tall (1,98m!) such grip is very hard on low balls. interesting stuff!
Hey I didn't imply to read protreptic (cool word), and I'm actually quite surprised as well with a tall guy using such a grip. By the way, despite everyone used to say Karen's forehand is monstruos, I always found it not that fast just by how it looked and how opponents played it. Stats against Djoker confirm that quite well. And his grip actually makes it tough to really drive the ball. My personal opinion is Karen's forehand efficiency is based on his serves to set up good opportunities and his confidence and mental toughness to pick and execute shots with offensive placement. Not hitting through opponents.
He also actually defends well - against Nole he returned many balls when on stretch. This however has a flip side: being young Karen manages to fight and grind through a couple of sets, but his Grand Slam experience displayed how he may struggle in 5-setters (which is expected for such a big guy if he's not Sascha Zverev - the feather giant). I hope he further developes some perfect balance to capitalize even more on his strengths.
 
#47
Well, you're the only guy I've known to have been using hawaiian FH, and I needed to hook you stronger to the case which made that escalate...
certainly does look like extreme western... if not hawaiian.. but he's able to hit through it...
i wonder if he's extremely susceptible to short low slice to his fh... as it's really tough to pick up with that grip, and he's also tall (making it even harder).
i don't recall djoker trying to exploit that... then again he's not known for his slice (like fed is)... seemed like djoker was feeding kk a steady diet of balls in kk's strikezone.
 
Last edited:
#48
After Karen turned 15 he moved to Split, Croatia, where he trained under Vedran Martic, Goran Ivanisevic's former coach. Later, he moved to Barcelona and was coached by Galo Blanco. I heard during the U.S Open one of the commentators mentioned he had a more orthodox forehand grip as a youngster but then went to Spain to train and somehow his grip shifted more towards the Western extreme.

I heard his coach is going to fix it in the future? Does it really need fixing? It looked very effective against Djokovic a few days ago in Paris. He really doesn't need a western grip because he's 6' 6" and has no issues with higher bouncing balls. Against bigger servers he might not be able to switch his grip in time to hit a solid return effectively. Reminds me of Marat Safin in his younger days....big tall dude that moves very well for his size and big power.
 
Last edited:

Dragy

Professional
#49
Against bigger servers he might not be able to switch his grip in time to hit a solid returns effectively.
With hawaiian grip being flipped aroud conti it's actually should be reasonably good for any return - slice both sides, 2hbh and fh. In a wierd way, though. @Shroud how you like this no-grip-change?

Maybe it's the reason he doesn't need his second hand for the takeback? Or the other way, he settled with this grip because of no assistance of offhand on FH takeback? Oh tennis forum where you get me tomorrow...
 

tlm

G.O.A.T.
#50
After Karen turned 15 he moved to Split, Croatia, where he trained under Vedran Martic, Goran Ivanisevic's former coach. Later, he moved to Barcelona and was coached by Galo Blanco. I heard during the U.S Open one of the commentators mentioned he had a more orthodox forehand grip as a youngster but then went to Spain to train and somehow his grip shifted more towards the Western extreme.

I heard his coach is going to fix it in the future? Does it really need fixing? It looked very effective against Djokovic a few days ago in Paris. He really doesn't need a western grip because he's 6' 6" and has no issues with higher bouncing balls. Against bigger servers he might not be able to switch his grip in time to hit a solid returns effectively. Reminds me of Marat Safin in his younger days....big tall dude that moves very well for his size and big power.
Lol fix his forehand. That shot is a lethal weapon, he slapped joker all over the court with that forehand.
 
Top