There will be no catharsis once Nole breaks Fed and Nadal’s slam count

[initialize]

It’s clear Nole will stop at nothing until his “numbers” surpass that of both Nadal and Federer. And as a Fed fan, it’s undoubtable he will. But once he does, I think he won’t get the satisfaction he wants or thinks he’ll get. His numbers will tally, but the crowd shouting “Federer, Federer!” Or “Go Rafa!” will be sketched in his mind forever, haunting him no matter how many records he breaks. No statues will be built in his name, maybe other than in Belgrade. Couches will ask their young trainees whether they want a one or 2 handed backhand, and the kids will say “1-handed! I want my backhand to look like Federer and Tsitsipas!”

What’s the point of Djokovic doing what he does then despite these truths? Was Nole’s fate, sealed by his selling of his soul to the devil, to be the best tennis player in the world but to be loved and remembered by no one?

 

[PilotPete]

The error is to put Nadal and Federer in the same category. Wherever Federer plays, they shout his name even when Nadal is present, perhaps even in Spain!

 

[Spencer Gore]

Trust me, if he finishes with all the records he'll be the guy they're talking about one hundred years from now.

 

[Sorry_to_tell_you_mate]

Trust me, if he finishes with all the records he'll be the guy they're talking about one hundred years from now.

People remember Michael Jordan but he is not even the one with most rings.

 

[Deleted member 771911]

He won't be the first man to achieve what he wants and then realise it did not bring him what he wanted. How he makes it out the other side of that will define him.

 

[Beckerserve]

It’s clear Nole will stop at nothing until his “numbers” surpass that of both Nadal and Federer. And as a Fed fan, it’s undoubtable he will. But once he does, I think he won’t get the satisfaction he wants or thinks he’ll get. His numbers will tally, but the crowd shouting “Federer, Federer!” Or “Go Rafa!” will be sketched in his mind forever, haunting him no matter how many records he breaks. No statues will be built in his name, maybe other than in Belgrade. Couches will ask their young trainees whether they want a one or 2 handed backhand, and the kids will say “1-handed! I want my backhand to look like Federer and Tsitsipas!”

What’s the point of Djokovic doing what he does then despite these truths? Was Nole’s fate, sealed by his selling of his soul to the devil, to be the best tennis player in the world but to be loved and remembered by no one?

Whoever wins Slam Race is GOAT. Nothing else now matters. Buckle up.

 

[T&M Returns]

Of course he won't be as loved. People sense phoniness. Kyrgios has spoken about it plenty.

Same reason McEnroe is hugely popular despite only having something like 7 majors. He's a jerk but he doesn't hide it. He's completely comfortable being himself, much like Federer and Nadal. Djokovic will just never have that.

 

[TheNachoMan]

You need to ease up on your sodium chloride intake

 

[ompluscator]

People remember Michael Jordan but he is not even the one with most rings.

Yes, because he was the best in his generation and he couldn’t lose finals. He didn’t struggle against his rivals, he didn’t choke in finals, he was winning when he was down, injured, sick.

That’s GOAT, and not the one who has “prettier” backend.

 

[jm1980]

Same reason McEnroe is hugely popular despite only having something like 7 majors. He's a jerk but he doesn't hide it. He's completely comfortable being himself, much like Federer and Nadal. Djokovic will just never have that.

McEnroe is popular because he is American

 

[WhiskeyEE]

The error is to put Nadal and Federer in the same category. Wherever Federer plays, they shout his name even when Nadal is present, perhaps even in Spain!

True. Endorsement Earnings 2020:

1. Federer 100 M
2. Djokovic 32 M
3. Nadal 26 M

Nadal is nowhere near as popular as Federer. He has a hardcore fan base, but if he were really on Fed's level he would make more money.

The Highest-Paid Tennis Players 2020: They Are Barely Playing, But The Top 10 Pros Still Earned $340 Million

Roger Federer ranks as the world's highest-paid tennis player for the 15th straight year with a record $106 million, including $100 million from sponsors and appearance fees.

www.forbes.com

 

[weakera]

Are/were Jordan, Ruth, Ali, Phelps etc. happier or more satisfied with their lives than your typical person? It's an interesting question tbh. Probably your family and loved ones have a greater bearing on those thoughts on your death bed.

 

[Mediterranean Might]

Really sad and pathetic thread.

 

[GhostofPetros]

let me guess, the only thing that will bring Nole lasting joy is to bring joy to others?

 

[initialize]

Yes, because he was the best in his generation and he couldn’t lose finals. He didn’t struggle against his rivals, he didn’t choke in finals, he was winning when he was down, injured, sick.

That’s GOAT, and not the one who has “prettier” backend.

Yeah, but MJ retired at 32, and the one with the “pretty backhand” is still playing at 40 and still beats his rivals on occasion, moreso Nadal of course

 

[daphne]

It’s clear Nole will stop at nothing until his “numbers” surpass that of both Nadal and Federer. And as a Fed fan, it’s undoubtable he will. But once he does, I think he won’t get the satisfaction he wants or thinks he’ll get. His numbers will tally, but the crowd shouting “Federer, Federer!” Or “Go Rafa!” will be sketched in his mind forever, haunting him no matter how many records he breaks. No statues will be built in his name, maybe other than in Belgrade. Couches will ask their young trainees whether they want a one or 2 handed backhand, and the kids will say “1-handed! I want my backhand to look like Federer and Tsitsipas!”

What’s the point of Djokovic doing what he does then despite these truths? Was Nole’s fate, sealed by his selling of his soul to the devil, to be the best tennis player in the world but to be loved and remembered by no one?

Another pathetic and miserable existence. Why waste oxygen! Do it.

 

[Deleted member 783101]

He has already achieved what he wants. To him this is all extra. If he didn't have this attitude he wouldn't have this kind of mental fortitude, this sort of cold bloodedness in difficult situations.
He has already accepted people's negative opinions on him. He plays for those who love him and support him.
Kids and youngsters all over the world , most of which not Serbian like me, see him as a source of inspiration in life.
If Novak truly wanted the kind of legacy some of you keep obsessing about he would be the one with Vogue's Anna Wintour in his box at the Us Open, he would be the one with no controversial opinions he would be the one the media would divinize. Alas, most of you will stop at the surface and not truly attempt to grasp the human being they're confronted to and discover the layers of depth they possess.

 

[daphne]

He won't be the first man to achieve what he wants and then realise it did not bring him what he wanted. How he makes it out the other side of that will define him.

Here is yet another one LOL

 

[Sorry_to_tell_you_mate]

Yes, because he was the best in his generation and he couldn’t lose finals. He didn’t struggle against his rivals, he didn’t choke in finals, he was winning when he was down, injured, sick.

That’s GOAT, and not the one who has “prettier” backend.

Exactly, people will remember Nadal owning RG since his first match, that's more impressive than anything Djokovic has accomplished.

 

[daphne]

He has already achieved what he wants. To him this is all extra. If he didn't have this attitude he wouldn't have this kind of mental fortitude, this sort of cold bloodedness in difficult situations.
He has already accepted people's negative opinions on him. He plays for those who love him and support him.
Kids and youngsters all over the world , most of which not Serbian like me, see him as a source of inspiration in life.
If Novak truly wanted the kind of legacy some of you keep obsessing about he would be the one with Vogue's Anna Wintour in his box at the Us Open, he would be the one with no controversial opinions he would be the one the media would divinize. Alas, most of you will stop at the surface and not truly attempt to grasp the human being they're confronted to and discover the layers of depth they possess.

Bravo!

 

[GhostofPetros]

Yeah, but MJ retired at 32, and the one with the “pretty backhand” is still playing at 40 and still beats his rivals on occasion, moreso Nadal of course

Nose couldn't retire at 32 because his record would have been a sad 10-23 against his top rival and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Make no mistake, Fed playing on was a bare necessity to stay in the GOAT conversationm It was not a cherry on top of his resume.

 

[daphne]

I am going to say only this - did you see the boy who received the GOAT's racket?

That's LOVE.

 

[ompluscator]

Yeah, but MJ retired at 32, and the one with the “pretty backhand” is still playing at 40 and still beats his rivals on occasion, moreso Nadal of course

MJ retired when he was 40, and before that when he was 35, as a champion of NBA. When he was 40 he was still putting some serious numbers, and not retiring from a match to avoid losing against his rivals.

 

[zorglub76]

I'd be satisfied if I were Novak. People would still love Federer more, but I'd know I did more than Federer and I was better player than him.
(maybe it's worth mentioning that I like Borg more than Federer, so he wins the Most Likeable Player Of All Time title for me)

 

[Grgisme]

 

[weakera]

He has already achieved what he wants. To him this is all extra. If he didn't have this attitude he wouldn't have this kind of mental fortitude, this sort of cold bloodedness in difficult situations.
He has already accepted people's negative opinions on him. He plays for those who love him and support him.
Kids and youngsters all over the world , most of which not Serbian like me, see him as a source of inspiration in life.
If Novak truly wanted the kind of legacy some of you keep obsessing about he would be the one with Vogue's Anna Wintour in his box at the Us Open, he would be the one with no controversial opinions he would be the one the media would divinize. Alas, most of you will stop at the surface and not truly attempt to grasp the human being they're confronted to and discover the layers of depth they possess.

Not that I question Djokovic's happiness in life but what makes you think he doesn't want those things or to be friends with Anna Wintour? I'm not saying he does but has he ever been clearly celebrity averse?

I wonder if he ever got to the table with Nike. Probably would have made a big difference for his western image.

 

[ompluscator]

Exactly, people will remember Nadal owning RG since his first match, that's more impressive than anything Djokovic has accomplished.

I would really like to understand the flow of your thoughts, how you interpreted my post and came to conclusion you wrote

 

[Deleted member 783101]

Not that I question Djokovic's happiness in life but what makes you think he doesn't want those things or to be friends with Anna Wintour? I'm not saying he does but has he ever been clearly celebrity averse?

I wonder if he ever got to the table with Nike. Probably would have made a big difference for his western image.

Indeed. I think Nike never wanted anything to do with him. Regarding celebrities, being friends with Anna Wintour means you're very deep into the whole elite game. It means you've sacrificed your freedom of speech to represent or be part of a group of very powerful people who basically decide the cultural evolution of our civilization. Novak has been outspoken about "knowing what things certain people do to be mainstream/famous" and choosing not to do it in order to remain authentic to himself.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

The catharsis will be when some people realise that other's successes do not amount to anything in real life for them.

 

[weakera]

Indeed. I think Nike never wanted anything to do with him. Regarding celebrities, being friends with Anna Wintour means you're very deep into the whole elite game. It means you've sacrificed your freedom of speech to represent or be part of a group of very powerful people who basically decide the cultural evolution of our civilization. Novak has been outspoken about "knowing what things certain people do to be mainstream/famous" and choosing not to do it in order to remain authentic to himself.

I'll leave the satanic celebrity cult topic aside and ask why you think Nike wouldn't be interested, or more significantly why Djokovic perhaps wouldn't be interested in Nike? Are we going to pretend that Uniqlo or Lacoste are somehow the "good" global corporations?

 

[Deleted member 783101]

The catharsis will be when some people realise that other's successes do not amount to anything in real life for them.

There is this thing called inspiration. I don't know if you've heard about it. I watxh Novak but I also pursue my own dreams in my own field of specialization and look at him and other champions and great humans whenever I doubt myself.
Some of us on this forum will change/are already changing the world. I'm one of them.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

I'll leave the satanic celebrity cult topic aside and ask why you think Nike wouldn't be interested, or more significantly why Djokovic perhaps wouldn't be interested in Nike? Are we going to pretend that Uniqlo or Lacoste are somehow the "good" global corporations?

Lacoste is worlds apart from Nike and Uniqlo as ethos. They still hire players, and not adopt them, but that is besides the point.

 

[ScentOfDefeat]

This is what I call GOAT coping.
When you invest too much of your identity and sense of self-worth in supporting the most consensual and establishment-backed player of your time, whose records you were sure wouldn't be beaten in your lifetime (a brave bet if I ever saw one), and then realise you probably bet on the wrong horse. You also realise it's too late to change lanes and save face, and all you have left is an argument you don't believe in, but that you hope will produce a comfortable echo-chamber for yourself and other delusional fans to feel safe in.
All I can say is the following: what a shame that tennis, for you, only amounts to this.
It's such a great sport.

 

[TripleATeam]

So... Fed GOAT because pretty backhand, the thread?

 

[Tennis_Hands]

There is this thing called inspiration. I don't know if you've heard about it. I watxh Novak but I also pursue my own dreams in my own field of specialization and look at him and other champions and great humans whenever I doubt myself.
Some of us on this forum will change/are already changing the world. I'm one of them.

You will realise that you are inspired, because you decided to be, and from there on you won't need Djokovic or whoever you are supporting for that.

Ideally, you like the tennis your favourite player plays, and so you like tennis in general more, and so go on the tennis court more to enjoy the game on your own.

As for changing the world: the world is one cold place, where the more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[weakera]

Lacoste is worlds apart from Nike and Uniqlo as ethos.

A completely meaningless sentence. Nike is on a different planet than Lacoste in terms of branding, power and influence.

 

[NiCo515]

People remember Michael Jordan but he is not even the one with most rings.

Actually Jordan does have the most rings in the modern era if we're talking about superstars who led their team, and he did it with the same team, without joining forces with his rivals, and he never lost a final. No one is counting ancient Bill Russell above him because he played in an NBA that had 8 teams with amateur-level competition. Comparing a guy who is most known for being the most clutch player ever and never losing important games to someone like Federer is laughable. One snatches victories from the jaws of defeat; the other chokes from positions akin to being up 20 with a minute left in an NBA finals game 7.

 

[Deleted member 783101]

I'll leave the satanic celebrity cult topic aside and ask why you think Nike wouldn't be interested, or more significantly why Djokovic perhaps wouldn't be interested in Nike? Are we going to pretend that Uniqlo or Lacoste are somehow the "good" global corporations?

Do not put words into my mouth. I choose them wisely. Look, Djokovic put a couple tennis balls on one eye during photoshoots to satisfy his sponsors, I don't know if that satisfies your curiosity. I have already seen beyond the whole cult idea, there are more universal concepts behind it and it's inevitable for any cicilization at our growth stage to develop certain propensities and thought cultures.
I think that his actions and free expression speak for themselves and show that he has chosen contracts without certain kinds of obligations. Moroever sponsoring the potential greatest tennis player of all time is not a bad deal even if he doesn't pusb tour narratives all day long.

 

[Sudacafan]

Nole will feel so empty after he breaks all the records. I will be worried for his well being.

 

[weakera]

Do not put words into my mouth. I choose them wisely. Look, Djokovic put a couple tennis balls on one eye during photoshoots to satisfy his sponsors, I don't know if that satisfies your curiosity. I have already seen beyond the whole cult idea, there are more universal concepts behind it and it's inevitable for any cicilization at our growth stage to develop certain propensities and thought cultures.
I think that his actions and free expression speak for themselves and show that he has chosen contracts without certain kinds of obligations. Moroever sponsoring the potential greatest tennis player of all time is not a bad deal even if he doesn't pusb tour narratives all day long.

Why can't you write plainly?

 

[victorcruz]

Whatever helps you sleep at night OP. I think it's time to appreciate the goats, who very likely will be with Djokovic on top because when they are gone... we will have nothing but the tweet generation.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

A completely meaningless sentence. Nike is on a different planet than Lacoste in terms of branding, power and influence.

But you didn't ask which one is more powerful. You asked (or rather stated) that they are operating on the same plane as businesses, and they are not.
Nike's position is because they don't stop in front of anything.

 

[weakera]

Actually Jordan does have the most rings in the modern era if we're talking about superstars who led their team, and he did it with the same team, without joining forces with his rivals, and he never lost a final. No one is counting ancient Bill Russell above him because he played in an NBA that had 8 teams with amateur-level competition. Comparing a guy who is most known for being the most clutch player ever and never losing important games to someone like Federer is laughable. One snatches victories from the jaws of defeat; the other chokes from positions akin to being up 20 with a minute left in an NBA finals game 7.

One day in most of our lifetimes, Jordan and his era will be viewed as anciently as you see Russell. As the game continues to evolve and change. That's the harsh reality of life. The shelf life for any of them as genuinely respected GOATs is 50-70 years, max. We all know Babe Ruth wouldn't make contact facing Jacob deGrom.

 

[beltsman]

It’s clear Nole will stop at nothing until his “numbers” surpass that of both Nadal and Federer. And as a Fed fan, it’s undoubtable he will. But once he does, I think he won’t get the satisfaction he wants or thinks he’ll get. His numbers will tally, but the crowd shouting “Federer, Federer!” Or “Go Rafa!” will be sketched in his mind forever, haunting him no matter how many records he breaks. No statues will be built in his name, maybe other than in Belgrade. Couches will ask their young trainees whether they want a one or 2 handed backhand, and the kids will say “1-handed! I want my backhand to look like Federer and Tsitsipas!”

What’s the point of Djokovic doing what he does then despite these truths? Was Nole’s fate, sealed by his selling of his soul to the devil, to be the best tennis player in the world but to be loved and remembered by no one?

It would be sad if he wasn't such a jerk. But this is exactly right. All of this is meaningless.

 

[Midaso240]

I tend to agree, Djokovic is the only player that seems obsessed with stats and numbers. I think Rafa and Roger, I mean obviously they want to win more but I think they're at peace with what they've achieved. It's less of a big deal to them whether they get surpassed in the slam count than it is to tennis fans. And if Djokovic sets the record at 23, someone will come along one day and break it 100%. There's no one I can see right now who has that hard-nosed will not be denied 'I WILL be the best ever' attitude but there will be in the future no doubt.

 

[NiCo515]

I tend to agree, Djokovic is the only player that seems obsessed with stats and numbers. I think Rafa and Roger, I mean obviously they want to win more but I think they're at peace with what they've achieved. It's less of a big deal to them whether they get surpassed in the slam count than it is to tennis fans. And if Djokovic sets the record at 23, someone will come along one day and break it 100%. There's no one I can see right now who has that hard-nosed will not be denied 'I WILL be the best ever' attitude but there will be in the future no doubt.

lmao yeah, Federer is playing at 40 years old with multiple injuries and dragging his four young children around the world to live in hotels because "he just loves the game man." Jesus Christ some of you people are beyond deluded; you're clinically insane.

 

[Red Rick]

You need to ease up on your sodium chloride intake

Tbh many different salts that make you a lot more unhinged than simple sodium chloride.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

lmao yeah, Federer is playing at 40 years old with multiple injuries and dragging his four young children around the world to live in hotels because "he just loves the game man." Jesus Christ some of you people are beyond deluded; you're clinically insane.

I think that you are deluded, if you think that Federer still plays, because he wants numbers.

BTW, the "hotels" in which his kids stay (if they stay in such) are nicer than most people's homes, so don't worry about them not being at home: they are everywhere at home.

 

[StannisTheMannis]

these forums have gone entirely down a depression spiral now with federer and Nadal being usurped by Novak.

 

[eagletennis]

One day in most of our lifetimes, Jordan and his era will be viewed as anciently as you see Russell. As the game continues to evolve and change. That's the harsh reality of life. The shelf life for any of them as genuinely respected GOATs is 50-70 years, max. We all know Babe Ruth wouldn't make contact facing Jacob deGrom.

That's nonsense. Russell played in a leauge which had 8 teams. NBA wasn't fully formed until merger. That's bad comparison. Also numbers dont age especially in individual sport. If he has numbers and stats it doesn't matter what year it is