Thiem: “Sinner and Alcaraz are changing the game “

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
Basically he’s saying these two guys play more aggressively than the Big 3:

 
Okk... And.... Sinner is already breaking his bird legs in half at 20:rolleyes:. They're not doing anything. If the Big 3 were in their prime Sinner/Carlos wouldn't win a set
 

Federev

Legend
I don’t think I have ever seen a Fed FH over 100mph. I think Thiem is saying that these guys go for more shot per shot. Alcaraz regularly registered 100 mph and massive RPM on FH.
Maybe they give more pounds of flesh per shot than Fed. If that’s what you mean by aggressive. That’s not what i usually think of.

But it makes sense Thiem would say that’s aggressive. Since that’s his style. Which I like.

But…

taking the ball as early as Fed?

The serve +1 success Like Fed?

# of shots before trying the kill shot like Fed?

Hmmm…I’d have a hard time believing they’re more aggressive in those ways than Fed at his most aggressive.

But I do love me some Sincaraz rivalry. Breath of fresh air.
 
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mahatma

Hall of Fame
Very interesting and illuminating comments from Thiem.

The most impressive thing for me with Sinner and Alcaraz is how high are they actually going to go if they are already playing at this level so early in their careers, and how long can they sustain it for?

Im not expecting them to keep it going for almost 20 years like Nadal and Federer have, but it would be cool to see just what heights they are going to go to if they get 10 years of relatively injury-free tennis.

I do feel like there are going to be some other players in the same age range who are also going to join Sinn and Alcaraz, and watching them rise to the challenge is going to be very cool because these two have already created they own aura in a very short period of time.
 

NeutralFan

Legend
Maybe they give more pounds of flesh per shot than Fed. If that’s what you mean by aggressive. That’s not what i usually think of.

But it makes sense Thiem would say that’s aggressive. Since that’s his style. Which I like.

But…

taking the ball as early as Fed?

The serve +1 success Like Fed?

# of shots before trying the kill shot like Fed?

Hmmm…I’d have a hard time believing they’re more aggressive in those ways than Fed at his most aggressive.

But I do love me some Sincaraz rivalry. Breath of fresh air.
He meant these two guys go for broke earlier than Fed. People forget that Fed was not Uber agressive and his greatness was built by him starting an era with a superb defense , high percentage shots and great agression, later followed by Djokodal. TTW act as prime Fed would go for winner on every single shot while it's not true. He started era with perfect blend of everything.
 

ForehandCross

G.O.A.T.
The average speed of fh of Wawrinka for the entire 2014-2016 was 81mph, yes - 2+ years data and Djokovic was 80mph.

We have seen fast tennis. A lot of it.

And here we are saying that Alcaraz has done something that we haven't seen before. lol
Folks need something to cling on. Thiem himself used to hit as big if not bigger from both wings than these guys.
 

ForehandCross

G.O.A.T.
I don’t think I have ever seen a Fed FH over 100mph. I think Thiem is saying that these guys go for more shot per shot. Alcaraz regularly registered 100 mph and massive RPM on FH.

Educate yourself a bit more, this is on the very first search. And most of it is from old man Fed, younger Nose used to go on FH bombs more.

Also Nose in his last full time season was hitting as big as Alcaraz in some matches, especially the 2019 WTF against Novak.

 

NeutralFan

Legend
They're changing the game. They make a lot more errors than The Big 3. :sneaky:
Never said they didn't. Read my full post.contrary to popular opinion Fed played quite high percentage shots and his defense was top notch and made very few errors.
 
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Krish872007

Talk Tennis Guru
Never said they didn't. Read my full post.contrary to popular opinion Fed played white high percentage shots and his defense was top notch and made very few errors.
This is basically true - he was the best offensive baseline around for a long time
He was able to pull the trigger whenever he wanted to and then unleash a barrage of attacking forehands, but his stock play was a mix of everything against most opponents
There were some days he would go all out attack / blitz

Thiem entered into ball bashing mode a lot of the time, trying to hit a winner off every ball
Alcaraz and Sinner kind of do the same thing, albeit with even less patience - so they can be considered more "aggressive" in this context
 

thepaint19

Hall of Fame
I don't trust Alcaraz, because once he loses a step of quickness (which could happen very soon, because Nadal slowed down as early as 2008-09), his lack of height and wingspan will be a problem in such a tall era.
Sinner has to prove he can play aggressively on the biggest points at slams and WIN them :eek:
 

Zoid

Hall of Fame
Lot of different takes here. I actually agree with Thiem (based on my viewing of their US QF match).

The aggression in shot selection is higher in these two than it was/is compared to Djokovic and probably Rafa and Federer too. Perhaps 05/06 Fed before conditions slowed he looked to attack with his forehand to a degree similar to alcaraz.

Doesn't mean the weight of shot or speed etc. is higher. Certainly not.

While Federer's court position was more aggressive, he played with more calculation. Sinner and Alcaraz are young and fearless and they are still exploring their limits, so in a sense it's natural to see young guys go for the kill early (07/08 Djokovic was hyper-aggressive, as was an 05 Nadal on hard). Alcaraz especially makes a lot of errors trying to belt the cover off the ball from difficult positions.

We also see far more drop shots from the Alcaraz/Rune/Sinner gen -- and this is a form of aggression. It's a risky shot.

In short, the calculated baseline rallies of attrition that were a hallmark of Nadal/Djokovic are not evident in these young guys (yet—maybe it will come, but my instinct says no). Sinner and Alcaraz look to take risk earlier in the rallier, whether that means changing direction, drop shot, coming forward (Alcaraz) etc. They do so more than the big-3 when given the same ball.

*Also: But I don't think this is an 'evolution' of the game. It is just a shift in style. We see more winners but far more errors. The Big-3 are still the peak of modern tennis by a margin.
 

GhostOfNKDM

Hall of Fame
I don’t think I have ever seen a Fed FH over 100mph. I think Thiem is saying that these guys go for more shot per shot. Alcaraz regularly registered 100 mph and massive RPM on FH.
Hitting hard is part of being aggressive, but not all of it.

Aggressiveness to me is an overall strategic attitude to playing the game - trying to keep the points short, not relying on winning by attrition, looking to move in (which includes hitting hard from the baseline) and finish points at the net.

To be fair, Alcaraz and Sinner are showing a lot more than the gen before them .

But one big aspect of that aggressiveness thats missing their games is taking the ball early, off the rise: stepping inside the baseline to do it and in effect taking time away from the opponent - the way Agassi and Fed did.

I just don't see these younger players do that.
 

Krish0608

Legend
Sinner has done literally nothing to change the game. He’s a rich man’s Davydenko (or poor man’s Davy depending on how you look at it) . Alcaraz though, is changing the game. He is the proverbial game changer
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
Maybe they give more pounds of flesh per shot than Fed. If that’s what you mean by aggressive. That’s not what i usually think of.

But it makes sense Thiem would say that’s aggressive. Since that’s his style. Which I like.

But…

taking the ball as early as Fed?

The serve +1 success Like Fed?

# of shots before trying the kill shot like Fed?

Hmmm…I’d have a hard time believing they’re more aggressive in those ways than Fed at his most aggressive.

But I do love me some Sincaraz rivalry. Breath of fresh air.
Fed’s serve much better than Alcaraz/Sinner so much easier to finish point earlier.
Fed played pretty aggressively in 2004-05 but evolved into a superior tactical player once he saw the defense from Nadal and Djokovic…
 

dking68

Professional
Sinner has done literally nothing to change the game. He’s a rich man’s Davydenko (or poor man’s Davy depending on how you look at it) . Alcaraz though, is changing the game. He is the proverbial game changer
Huh?? Could Davydenko return as well as Sinner could?
 
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