Thiem and Soderling have had remarkably similar careers

King No1e

Legend
2 RG finals in their mid-20's, troubled Nadal on clay, but won their only big title on HC. Both couldn't break through Fedalovic (yet) and reached #4 as their highest rankings.

Who has had the better career so far? Who has been better on clay so far? Off clay?

Discuss.
 

FRV2

Semi-Pro
I give the nod to Soderling for a big match at a grand slam. Thiem's biggest win in a grand slam was probably beating Djokovic in the semis of the French. Soderling's was beating Nadal at the French. I give the nod to Soderling here. So I say Soderling until Thiem does something bigger.
 

Fridge

Semi-Pro
Soderling. He took out Nadal and Fed in slams (while they were the defending champs too and number one seed i think).
 

papertank

Hall of Fame
Soderling was a beast, truly tragic that we didn't get to see what he could really achieve.

Thiem is also extremely impressive and is will definitely break through at the grand slam level at some point. I think when all is said and done his career will be way more impressive, though that's not hard given Soderling retired so early.
 

clout

Hall of Fame
Soderling beat a 22 year old Nadal at RG while Thiem can barely win a set off Rafa in his early 30’s....Robin also beat Fed when he was only 28 and the defending champ in 2010 as well. The only significant win Thiem’s had at RG so far in his whole career was the 5-setter against a 32 year old Novak who he should’ve beaten in 4
 

BorgTheGOAT

Professional
2 RG finals in their mid-20's, troubled Nadal on clay, but won their only big title on HC. Both couldn't break through Fedalovic (yet) and reached #4 as their highest rankings.

Who has had the better career so far? Who has been better on clay so far? Off clay?

Discuss.
Where exactly did Thiem trouble Nadal? Masters etc are not really important especially not during this stage of Nadal’s career. As of now, Soderling beat peak Nadal at the French (only player to EVER do so) and also defending champion Fed. Thiem’s ein against Djokovic completely pales in comparison especially since it was a choke fest from both sides.
 

Azure

Hall of Fame
Definitely Soderling on paper. Thiem will lift RG one day and when he does that, there will be no doubt that Thiem is the better player.
 

Lew II

Hall of Fame
Vs Big4

Thiem 12-19
Soderling 6-32

Against Soderling they were in better form but it's still a huge difference.
 

BorgTheGOAT

Professional
No one can do anything against the "old" Nadal, since in the last 3 RG editions he won 56 sets out of 58 against all other players at RG.
That’s because the new gen sucks and Federer and Djokovic declined in parallel to Nadal. Anyways, Nadal did not even play Djokovic in those last three RG editions. I don’t say that he wouldn’t be the favorite but given their history, I think Nole would still be his toughest opponent. Soderling in the form of their 2009 match would destroy the older Nadal from 2018/2019. Soderling in the form of the 2010 Federer match would still comfortably beat him.
 

BorgTheGOAT

Professional
Vs Big4

Thiem 12-19
Soderling 6-32

Against Soderling they were in better form but it's still a huge difference.
Thiem is more consistent, played - as you mentioned- worse versions of them and also beat them in lesser tournaments like masters. Soderling had by far the higher peak level, though. There is no way anyone can convince me that Thiem would even win a set against 2009 Nadal or even 2010 Federer.
 
Mentioning Soderling always reminds me of the 2010 RG QF and makes me smile.
And then you realise 2009 RG R16 and then cry, but then you realise again that rafa has won 8 RGs since then, which again brings smile on your face...
This Nadal, even in his late career stretch has won as much RGs as all of the other RG winners from last 15 years together..
He's the clay GOD
 

DSH

Hall of Fame
After Soderling, Sweden has not had players in the top 100, if I'm not mistaken.
Why is the absence of Swedish players with quality like the one mentioned, Johansson or Enqvist?
:unsure:
 

Lew II

Hall of Fame
Thiem is more consistent, played - as you mentioned- worse versions of them and also beat them in lesser tournaments like masters. Soderling had by far the higher peak level, though. There is no way anyone can convince me that Thiem would even win a set against 2009 Nadal or even 2010 Federer.
He beat Djokovic twice but could not have taken a set from Federer? o_O

2017-19 Nadal on clay lost more times to Thiem (3) than he did to the rest of the tour (2) (y)
 

FRV2

Semi-Pro
Thiem is super passionate. I really want him to win RG soon. If he wins a slam this thread is moot.
We are debating who has had the better career up to this point, not who will have the better career. You would be ill-advised to say Thiem won't have the better career when all is said and done, especially since he will be on tour when the Big3, especially Nadal, are not.
 

Azure

Hall of Fame
We are debating who has had the better career up to this point, not who will have the better career. You would be ill-advised to say Thiem won't have the better career when all is said and done, especially since he will be on tour when the Big3, especially Nadal, are not.
I answered that in my first post.

You can only play who is in front of you. This is why I never get into weak era or goat debates. Years down the line a GS winner will be seen as one - the asterix we (arm chair critics) place beside their names will have no value.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
2 RG finals in their mid-20's, troubled Nadal on clay, but won their only big title on HC. Both couldn't break through Fedalovic (yet) and reached #4 as their highest rankings.

Who has had the better career so far? Who has been better on clay so far? Off clay?

Discuss.
Big difference is Soderling's career was stopped by mono.

I mean, real mono.
 
2 RG finals in their mid-20's, troubled Nadal on clay, but won their only big title on HC. Both couldn't break through Fedalovic (yet) and reached #4 as their highest rankings.

Who has had the better career so far? Who has been better on clay so far? Off clay?

Discuss.
.
 

BorgTheGOAT

Professional
He beat Djokovic twice but could not have taken a set from Federer? o_O

2017-19 Nadal on clay lost more times to Thiem (3) than he did to the rest of the tour (2) (y)
He beat Djokovic once in his worst year and 2019 Djokovic isn’t exactly a strong version either. Not winning a set against Federer might be an exaggeration but he sure as hell wouldn’t win one against 2009 Nadal, he can barely do so against 2017-2019 nadal. As for your other point, everyone should finally have understood that at this point in their career the Big three do not really care about masters etc anymore. Fognini also beat Nadal on clay in beat of three. Zverev won masters and WTF over Djokovic and Federer yet the big three won all slams since AO 2017. Saying that Thiem is troubling Nadal on clay because he beat him in Masters is like saying Woodforde was troubling Sampras on grass as he beat him in Queens.
 

Musterrific

Rookie
Thiem will just remain a pretender to the clay throne until he grows the balls necessary to take out Nadal at the French. Soderling's lack of fear and respect against peak Nadal on clay was the key to his legendary victory. Thiem is way too nice to achieve a similar result.
 

The Blond Blur

Professional
Sod with the higher peak, Tim is more consistent. Obviously Sod is retired, and Timmy is in his physical prime so he can add more titles to his name. I think Timmy will win at leat 1 RG maybe 2 tops before he's done. But, Rafa is going to be at least 3 years old for that to happen.
 

WhiskeyEE

Legend
Soderling was good on all surfaces. Didn't necessarily have the results because he was still improving when he got sick and the tour was much deeper but he was better on HC and especially grass than Thiem.
 

Lew II

Hall of Fame
He beat Djokovic once in his worst year and 2019 Djokovic isn’t exactly a strong version either. Not winning a set against Federer might be an exaggeration but he sure as hell wouldn’t win one against 2009 Nadal, he can barely do so against 2017-2019 nadal. As for your other point, everyone should finally have understood that at this point in their career the Big three do not really care about masters etc anymore. Fognini also beat Nadal on clay in beat of three. Zverev won masters and WTF over Djokovic and Federer yet the big three won all slams since AO 2017. Saying that Thiem is troubling Nadal on clay because he beat him in Masters is like saying Woodforde was troubling Sampras on grass as he beat him in Queens.
2019 Djokovic not strong? LOL Only Thiem beat him in the last 5 slams.

If Nadal doesn't care about other clay tournaments why did he lose only twice to all other players in three years?

Djokovic and Sampras have no business here. They didn't lose mostly to only one player 60% like Nadal did with Thiem on clay.
 

TennisFan3

Legend
I'd rate Thiem higher. He is FAR more consistent. And arguably has at least 2/3rds of his career remaining. He will do a LOT more and possibly win at least 1 RG. Maybe even more.

Soderling had a higher peak. Unfortunately for the Swede he will NEVER be remembered for his 2009 and 2010 RG finals.

He will ONLY be remembered for the remarkable 2009 R4 RG win over Rafa. That match is in tennis history as one of the biggest upsets of ALL time.
The way Soderling played in that match was remarkable. It takes tremendous tennis to beat even an injured Nadal in 4 sets in RG.
 

aman92

Hall of Fame
Thiem will win multiple slams and has been much more consistent than Soderling ever was already
 
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