Thiem now 15-18 against the Big Three

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
Federer wasn't having Z's success at 20 so it was more understandable for him to struggle. Zverev blossomed earlier.

I mean when you are world no.3, slam contention should be expected from you.
He obviously didn't blossom earlier if he can't make it to a QF of one Slam the entire year.

I just explained that. Do you honestly think he would be world #3 in 2011-2013? He's be lucky to be top 8.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Sampras was not a guy who used a lot of variety. He wasn't Federer for example plus he would give Medvedev a target who loves to defend and run down everything. He is a more aggressive and taller Hewitt which would be terrible for Sampras.

But every player is different. Federer wasn't winning Slams at that age either.
Well, Med could have lost to Roddick himself instead, who pushed Hewitt to 5.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
He obviously didn't blossom earlier if he can't make it to a QF of one Slam the entire year.

I just explained that. Do you honestly think he would be world #3 in 2011-2013? He's be lucky to be top 8.
My point is he could have tried to contend since the period was very open. Z existed before 2020 and he peaked much earlier than the other Next Genners.
 
Well, I am less forgiving for today's current crop because they aren't dealing with the Big 3 at their best. Hewitt/Roddick and co at least were dealing with a GOAT at his peak.

Thiem in particular is in his physical prime against the Big 3 past theirs. No one in the past had this advantage.

Djokovic was there for the taking at the AO this year, so I'm not excusing Thiem here. He wasn't up against Djokovic at his best.

If you think having just 2005 Federer would give Thiem a higher chance of winning, you're in for a disappointment.
Exactly. I can't even hypothetically think of Thiem surviving the attack of peak @ForehandRF
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
So he was not as good. We agree.
If we compare Thiem’s performance against the field vs Big 3’a performance against field, I think we’d see that Thiem has improved more than Big 3 has declined.
I think at least Fed certainly became worse than even his 2015 and 2017 versions.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
That doesn't really change the fact that none of the three really have an effective plan to beat Thiem any more.

When the big three step out on the court with Thiem now, all three of them know he is now the better player. Whether Thiem really knows it yet, is probably the major factor in whether he wins or loses.
I don't think Thiem will ever be the favorite over the Big 3 in any match. But he does have age on his side at least, as well as belief against them.
 

BackhandDTL

Professional
Thiem is 12 year younger than Fed, 7 years younger than Rafa and 6 years younger than Djoker. All of those guys are in their mid to late 30's. Thiem should be beating them like a drum whenever he plays any of them, regardless of surface.

Edit: Oops! Now see Clout's basically identical post previously.
Clueless. Nadal is godlike at RG even still.
 

Sabratha

Banned
He obviously didn't blossom earlier if he can't make it to a QF of one Slam the entire year.

I just explained that. Do you honestly think he would be world #3 in 2011-2013? He's be lucky to be top 8.
Nah he'd be No. 5. No way do guys like Ferrer and Berdych rank ahead of him. Also Medvedev isn't beating '01 Hewitt, the guy crushed Kafelnikov and Sampras back to back. How's he going to touch that?
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Sampras was not a guy who used a lot of variety. He wasn't Federer for example plus he would give Medvedev a target who loves to defend and run down everything. He is a more aggressive and taller Hewitt which would be terrible for Sampras.

But every player is different. Federer wasn't winning Slams at that age either.
med's retuning+passing/lobbing don't even come remotely close to that of Hewitt. Just stop.
 

Sabratha

Banned
That's mainly because fed started baseline ballbashing in that match, that's where 2014 version of him was certainly not better than Wawrinka.
I think him making the quarters a couple of times and running into sizable competition in Fed and peaking Gasquet says a lot about his grass pedigree. Not on the level of his HC or clay conquests but he's hardly a mug there.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
He was on the verge of losing in straight sets against fed on clay. (Matchpointerer again)
fed got 2 close ones vs Boric&La Monf, but blew it vs Thiem.
Fascinating clay season from him in 2019 though - at his age.
Would've been nice if he had taken one of the 2 sets vs Nadal in the semi - more so the 2nd set. had 3 BPs at 4 all, right?
 

Devtennis01

Hall of Fame
It's a misleading stat, though. Really, what does it mean, as a valid subject of a stat, Big 3? They are not one 3 headed monster!
 

blablavla

Legend
The bottom line is that these days, Thiem beats all of the big 3 more often than not - and the matches he loses tend to be very tight. He has them figured out.

Unless it's Nadal at RG, I expect Thiem to be the bookies' favourite in his next match against the Big 3.
except for the GS finals.
it's not so much vs Nadal at RG.

he was afraid to defeat Novak at AO 2020.

he was afraid to win the USO 2020.
unfortunately for both him and Sascha, one of them had to go home with the title, so it doesn't matter how much they tried to lose, only 1 could lose.
Thiem needs to acquire that killer instinct, that all great champs have
he needs to thrill under pressure and in the finals
 

tennis_pro

Bionic Poster
I don't why you're including Safin. That was nearly 16 years ago and he only had to beat Federer..lol. Stan gets credit because he beat two of them twice in Slams but look what it took to do it. Good luck replicating that and he even played his best, imo, at 2013 AO and lost in the 4th round.

Zvevev would have reached them in AO if the draw were different. He would have in NY too. Medvedev made the SF in NY too so not his fault the big 3 weren't there to face him.
Only had to beat Federer....lol, you mean peak Federer in a Slam on a HC? The only time out of 12 tournaments in 2004-2007 where Fed lost at a Slam outside of clay? That Federer?

You have no idea about how big that upset was back then and even more now when we put it in context. Peak Fed almost never lost a big match outside of clay.
 
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fed got 2 close ones vs Boric&La Monf, but blew it vs Thiem.
Fascinating clay season from him in 2019 though - at his age.
Would've been nice if he had taken one of the 2 sets vs Nadal in the semi - more so the 2nd set. had 3 BPs at 4 all, right?
He lead the 2nd set 2-0 and had game points on serve to go up 3-0.
He didn't have 3 break points at 4-4, rather he blew a 40-0 lead on serve. And before that in the 8th game at 4-3 on nadal serve, he had multiple deuces but couldn't manage a break point due to poor shot selection (not going to open court on 3 occassions iirc).
Imo without wind, roger could've managed a much much better fight, but the outcome was NID.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
I don't why you're including Safin. That was nearly 16 years ago and he only had to beat Federer..lol. Stan gets credit because he beat two of them twice in Slams but look what it took to do it. Good luck replicating that and he even played his best, imo, at 2013 AO and lost in the 4th round.

Zvevev would have reached them in AO if the draw were different. He would have in NY too. Medvedev made the SF in NY too so not his fault the big 3 weren't there to face him.
"only"
 

bobleenov1963

Professional
Until Thiem can beat two of the big 3 in a grand slam event, BO5, he is just another average player. Thiem's fan should just STFU.....
 
Only had to beat Federer....lol, you mean peak Federer in a Slam on a HC? The only time out of 12 tournaments in 2004-2007 where Fed lost at a Slam outside of clay? That Federer?

You have no idea about how big that upset was back then and even more now when we put it in context. Peak Fed almost never lost a big match outside of clay.
And it took MP saving and 9-7 in the fifth to do it. One loss and it was a Simpsons one.
 

blablavla

Legend
Until Thiem can beat two of the big 3 in a grand slam event, BO5, he is just another average player. Thiem's fan should just STFU.....
you mean an average 3.5?

as he is usually fluctuating between #3 and #4, I thought 3.5 would be fair for now.
which is well above the average player
 

bobleenov1963

Professional
you mean an average 3.5?

as he is usually fluctuating between #3 and #4, I thought 3.5 would be fair for now.
which is well above the average player
Thiem is still an average player and still is until he beat two of big 3 in grand slam on the way to the title and win it. Beating the chump Zverev does not count.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Compared to 2 or more big 3. We all know peak Federer was a beast. That isn't up for debate...lol
beating peak Fed at AO 2005 >> beating peak Djokovic at RG 2015
beating peak Hewitt at AO 2005 >> beating Old-erer at RG 2015

Safin beating only one of the big 3 at AO 2005 compared to Stan beating 2 of the big 3 at RG 2015.

Safin's was considerably tougher, no contest.

beating peak Fed at AO 2005 > beating prime Federer at USO 2009
beating peak Hewitt at AO 2005 > beating below par serve Nadal at USO 2009


Safin beating only one of the big 3 at AO 2005 compared to Delpo beating 2 of the big 3 at USO 2009

Safin's was clearly tougher
 
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NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
Only had to beat Federer....lol, you mean peak Federer in a Slam on a HC? The only time out of 12 tournaments in 2004-2007 where Fed lost at a Slam outside of clay? That Federer?

You have no idea about how big that upset was back then and even more now when we put it in context. Peak Fed almost never lost a big match outside of clay.
I mean as in only having to beat ONE of them, not that Federer wasn't tough to beat. I have no idea how this was taken any other way.
 

BackhandDTL

Professional
The bottom line is that these days, Thiem beats all of the big 3 more often than not - and the matches he loses tend to be very tight. He has them figured out.

Unless it's Nadal at RG, I expect Thiem to be the bookies' favourite in his next match against the Big 3.
I agree if it’s not grass. I think Thiem might even be favored against Novak at the AO
 
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