Thiem or A. Zverev, who wins a slam first?

Thiem or A. Zverev, who wins a slam first?

  • A. Zverev

    Votes: 31 67.4%
  • Thiem

    Votes: 15 32.6%

  • Total voters
    46
Both of these guys will win a grand slam sometime in the next 4 years, possibly sooner. So who do you think wins one first? I go with Thiem winning RG before Zverev wins his first slam (USO).
Give your opinions.
 

Plamen1234

Hall of Fame
Zverev imo.Thiem is going to win a Slam when Nadal stop playing at RG.Thiem is not going to win Wimby or the HC Slams anytime soon imo - his level on grass and hard is not good enough.On clay he is pretty good but well Nadal stands in his way.I dont see him beating Nadal at RG in the next few years
 
Zverev imo.Thiem is going to win a Slam when Nadal stop playing at RG.Thiem is not going to win Wimby or the HC Slams anytime soon imo - his level on grass and hard is not good enough.On clay he is pretty good but well Nadal stands in his way.I dont see him beating Nadal at RG in the next few years
Thiem will only get stronger though, and he keeps getting closer. Just a matter of time. I see Nadal winning 1 or 2 more RG before Thiem time
 

Sputnik Bulgorov

Professional
Thiem is very good, but at this point, he hasn't even proven to be as good as someone like Coria on clay. He got thrashed by Nadal in RG and just lost to Klizan and Jarry in the two clay tournaments he tried to vulture.

Zverev seems to have the all surface ability and consistency that Thiem lacks, and he's younger than Thiem to boot.
 

ak24alive

Legend
Thiem doesn't even aim to win the slams not named RG.
After Wimbledon this year, he played Hamburg(Clay), Kitzbuhel(Clay) back to back and now he will have to play Toronto and Cincy back to back. That's 4 tournaments in a row, 2 of which are on clay(and why???). That is so not the schedule someone who aims to win the USO should follow. He even injured himself in Kitzbuhel.
Zverev on the other hand is trying hard. He hasn't made deep runs in slams yet but he is clearly trying. He has his priorities sorted out. Thiem is a disappointment to me in that department. In many ways he is refusing to realize his potential outside clay.
So yeah I pick Zverev.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Thiem is very good, but at this point, he hasn't even proven to be as good as someone like Coria on clay. He got thrashed by Nadal in RG
1. Thiem has 2 SF and 1 F at RG, while Coria only has 1 SF and 1 F at RG. Subsequently, Thiem is better on clay than Coria.
2. He got thrashed by Nadal because Nadal is the King of clay. Don't expect to see something similar to Nadal in your lifetime. Nadal has beaten all-time great players like Djokovic, Federer, Wawrinka and Murray in his road to his 11 Roland Garros titles. Thiem would be no exception.
 

ak24alive

Legend
1. Thiem has 2 SF and 1 F at RG, while Coria only has 1 SF and 1 F at RG. Subsequently, Thiem is better on clay than Coria.
By that logic Anderson is better than DelPotro on grass as he has one Wimby final and Delpo doesn't.
By that logic Anderson is better than Zverev on Hard courts but... their H2H is 4-0 in favor of Z and as far as I remember you always say H2H prove who is better and who is not. So what is correct then??
 
D

Deleted member 756486

Guest
Nadal will probably be winning RG until he’s 92 so I don’t see Thiem winning anytime soon unfortunately.

As for Zverev, he still isn’t winning a slam anytime soon. People are getting far too excited over a ATP 500 win.
 

Sputnik Bulgorov

Professional
1. Thiem has 2 SF and 1 F at RG, while Coria only has 1 SF and 1 F at RG. Subsequently, Thiem is better on clay than Coria.
2. He got thrashed by Nadal because Nadal is the King of clay. Don't expect to see something similar to Nadal in your lifetime. Nadal has beaten all-time great players like Djokovic, Federer, Wawrinka and Murray in his road to his 11 Roland Garros titles. Thiem would be no exception.

1) Coria is also a Monte Carlo and Hamburg champion vs 0 clay masters for Thiem. He has 4 other finals in clay masters vs 2 for Thiem. Coria also pushed younger claydal to a 5th set tiebreaker on clay while Thiem can't even manage a set in bo5 vs old Nadal despite being 9 years younger. Coria is better than Thiem on clay.
2) For once, we agree on something. It makes it even more exceptional that Coria almost beat Nadal in bo5.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
By that logic Anderson is better than DelPotro on grass as he has one Wimby final and Delpo doesn't.
By that logic Anderson is better than Zverev on Hard courts but... their H2H is 4-0 in favor of Z and as far as I remember you always say H2H prove who is better and who is not. So what is correct then??
Solid argument.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
1) Coria is also a Monte Carlo and Hamburg champion vs 0 clay masters for Thiem. He has 4 other finals in clay masters vs 2 for Thiem. Coria also pushed younger claydal to a 5th set tiebreaker on clay while Thiem can't even manage a set in bo5 vs old Nadal despite being 9 years younger. Coria is better than Thiem on clay.
2) For once, we agree on something. It makes it even more exceptional that Coria almost beat Nadal in bo5.
Thiem is 7 years younger, not 9, but your point still stands.

I agree that Coria as of now is better on clay than Thiem. I find Thiem highly overrated on every surface, including clay.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
1) Coria is also a Monte Carlo and Hamburg champion vs 0 clay masters for Thiem. He has 4 other finals in clay masters vs 2 for Thiem. Coria also pushed younger claydal to a 5th set tiebreaker on clay while Thiem can't even manage a set in bo5 vs old Nadal despite being 9 years younger. Coria is better than Thiem on clay.
2) For once, we agree on something. It makes it even more exceptional that Coria almost beat Nadal in bo5.
1) The Masters 1000 argument: Soderling has 0 Masters 1000 on clay, yet almost no one puts Coria over Soderling. Soderling has 2 RG finals and has defeated both Nadal and Federer there. So the results in GS are still the most relevant criterion. Therefore, Thiem is better on clay than Coria.

2) The H2H against Nadal on clay argument: Coria could not defeat any version of Nadal at RG. Plus, Coria faced pre-peak teenager Nadal prior to 2008. Now Nadal is obviously less fast, but a much more aggresive player with an improved backhand. If Coria couldn't even defeat pre-peak Nadal, let alone this experienced and more aggresive Nadal at RG. By the way, what happens if Thiem can't beat Nadal despite being 7 years younger? Nadal is the King of clay, you won't see nothing like him in your lifetime. No single player in the history of tennis could defeat 2018 Nadal at RG, with the exception of peak Nadal or an inspired Soderling maybe.
 
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Sport

G.O.A.T.
Thiem is 7 years younger, not 9, but your point still stands.

I agree that Coria as of now is better on clay than Thiem. I find Thiem highly overrated on every surface, including clay.

You make an interesting point with the "as of now" Mike. Coria only made 1 SF and 1 F at RG in his whole career. Thiem has already made 2 SF and 1 F at RG despite being only 25. So probably Thiem will surpass by far Coria's career on clay.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
You make an interesting point with the "as of now" Mike. Coria only made 1 SF and 1 F at RG in his whole career. Thiem has already made 2 SF and 1 F at RG despite being only 25. So probably Thiem will surpass by far Coria's career on clay.
Probably. But can't ignore the fact that Coria actually has big titles on clay.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Thiem can't even manage a set in bo5 vs old Nadal despite being 7 years younger.
According to that logic, Cilic is pathetic for not defeating Federer at Wimbledon 2017 or Australian Open 2018, despite being 7 years younger than Federer.

You can reply that Cilic actually made a 5 sets final at the AO. But we should consider that 1) Nadal is 5 years younger than Federer, so the age difference shouldn't be so noticieable and 2) Nadal is far more dominant on clay than Federer on hard courts.
 

boredone3456

G.O.A.T.
Personally both have major issues in winning a major.

Zverev has masters shields to his name to prove he can hang with the big boys and beat them. However I really question is ability to win 7 best of 5 matches in a row. He hasn't even made a major SF. The Zverev we see in say, the Washington Final and that we have seen in Masters tournaments has not really shown up in the majors. He really needs to work on how he plays a best of 5 match because he really struggles there at this point no matter the surface.

Thiem at least has a major final to his credit and a couple of other SF. Sadly they are all on clay where Rafa is still king and there are others who can rise to challenge him. He is quickly seeming to become a 1 surface wonder and that won't help him unless he can really become a demon on clay. right now he is no demon, certainly talented and very capable, but doesn't look ready to storm to a RG title even if Rafa were out of the picture. He would still need some breaks.

I mean...I don't know. Thiem has certainly gotten a lot closer to winning one by at least getting to a final. but Zverev has more proof he can beat the big boys someplace. I'd probably say Zverev right now because I think once he figures out the best of 5 formula he as least could be an all surface threat.
 

Sputnik Bulgorov

Professional
1) The Masters 1000 argument: Soderling has 0 Masters 1000 on clay, yet almost no one puts Coria over Soderling. Soderling has 2 RG finals and has defeated both Nadal and Federer there. So the results in GS are still the most relevant criterion. Therefore, Thiem is better on clay than Coria.

2) The H2H against Nadal on clay argument: Coria could not defeat any version of Nadal at RG. Plus, Coria faced pre-peak teenager Nadal prior to 2008. Now Nadal is obviously less fast, but a much more aggresive player with an improved backhand. If Coria couldn't even defeat pre-peak Nadal, let alone this experienced and more aggresive Nadal at RG. By the way, what happens if Thiem can't beat Nadal despite being 7 years younger? Nadal is the King of clay, you won't see nothing like him in your lifetime. No single player in the history of tennis could defeat 2018 Nadal at RG, with the exception of peak Nadal or an inspired Soderling maybe.

1) Strawman argument. Soderling has nothing to do with the comparison between Thiem and Coria. Both Thiem's and Coria's best result at RG is one final, so they are even. Thiem has 2 SFs to Coria's 1 but that wouldn't make up for Coria's 2 Masters 1000 on clay to Theim's 0. Therefore, Coria is better than Thiem as things currently stand.

2) I'm actually not using the H2H against Rafa on clay, as Thiem obviously wins there. I'm saying Coria challenged Nadal more in Bo5 than Thiem did. 2005 Nadal on clay is better than 2018 Nadal on clay. 2005 Nadal beat peak Federer, peak Coria and doping Puerta. Nadal started his all-surface record 81 match clay win streak in 2005. If Thiem couldn't even take a set off 2018 Nadal at RG, he would get slaughtered by 2005 Nadal 6-0 6-2 6-1.
 

Sputnik Bulgorov

Professional
You make an interesting point with the "as of now" Mike. Coria only made 1 SF and 1 F at RG in his whole career. Thiem has already made 2 SF and 1 F at RG despite being only 25. So probably Thiem will surpass by far Coria's career on clay.

Probably. But can't ignore the fact that Coria actually has big titles on clay.
Remember that Coria's career was cut short due to service yips, a problem that interfered with his service rhythm and timing. He couldn't play a match without serving tons of double faults. Coria was done being a full time tennis player by 2006, when he was only 25 years old. He had already accomplished more than Thiem at the same age.

Of course, I expect Thiem to finish with a better clay career than Coria simply because he will have a longer one and he'll continue playing after Rafa retires.
 

Sputnik Bulgorov

Professional
According to that logic, Cilic is pathetic for not defeating Federer at Wimbledon 2017 or Australian Open 2018, despite being 7 years younger than Federer.

You can reply that Cilic actually made a 5 sets final at the AO. But we should consider that 1) Nadal is 5 years younger than Federer, so the age difference shouldn't be so noticieable and 2) Nadal is far more dominant on clay than Federer on hard courts.

Cilic was pathetic in the Wimbledon 2017 final. The magnitude of the event got to him and he was crying as he was getting his ass handed to him. He put up a fight in the AO, and I don't think a 5 set loss to Fed is THAT bad anymore.

Nadal is the clay god, more dominant on clay than anyone on any surface, but you would expect that Thiem, with 3 victories over Rafa in bo3, would at least be able to put up some resistance at RG vs a past prime Rafa, but he hasn't. At least he won 2 more games in 2018 and didn't get bageled. Rafa is 9-0 in sets vs Thiem in RG and none of those sets went farther than 6-4. Even Diego Schwartzman has done better than Thiem vs Rafa in RG.
 

Sputnik Bulgorov

Professional
Thiem is 7 years younger, not 9, but your point still stands.

I agree that Coria as of now is better on clay than Thiem. I find Thiem highly overrated on every surface, including clay.
Thiem looked scary good in his victories over Nadal in Rome 2017 and Madrid 2018, but the problem is that those performances are difficult to replicate because he relies so much on making low percentage winners instead of constructing the point. That's why he can make beating Rafa look easy and then only win one game vs Djokovic the next day. He only reaches those heights once a year, and then spends the other clay tournaments losing to lesser players like Klizan, Jarry, Fognini, etc.

Zverev at least has a higher percentage game that he can stick with day in and day out without too many upsets. I feel that he will reach a point where even his B game will be enough to reach at least quarters regularly.
 

SeeItHitIt

Professional
I want the answer to be DT, but he’s not even close to winning more than a few matches in a row before ‘who the heck is that in Thiem’s body’ shows up.
 

Fedole

Semi-Pro
Zverev imo.Thiem is going to win a Slam when Nadal stop playing at RG.Thiem is not going to win Wimby or the HC Slams anytime soon imo - his level on grass and hard is not good enough.On clay he is pretty good but well Nadal stands in his way.I dont see him beating Nadal at RG in the next few years
Where can Zverev win at though? Aussie Open is too fast for him/not high bouncing enough (IMO), French Open as you say Thiem is awaiting once Nadal is done/drops his level. Wimbledon and USO are his options at the minute but he has never done anything on grass so not sure.

Thiem has the best shot at one particular Slam; Zverev will probably perform better at the next few slams overall. Whether that will be good enough to actually win one we will have to wait and see!
 

flanker2000fr

Hall of Fame
I like both players, and they both have obvious potential.

Not sure who will get the first slam, but Zverev is 3 years and change younger than Thiem, and has demonstrated a willingness to evolve his game that Thiem hasn't. The latter is, for now, far too content staying in his comfort zone, on clay and 2 meters behind the baseline.

If Zverev keeps working physically to build the endurance to last 7 games at the best of 5, he will be a real threat to anyone on any surface, clay included.
 
Thiem will only get stronger though, and he keeps getting closer. Just a matter of time. I see Nadal winning 1 or 2 more RG before Thiem time

Thiem isn't getting much closer, though. Three years in a row, it took Nadal or Djokovic to stop him at RG, but they beat him very easily on all three occasions:

6-2 6-1 6-4
6-3 6-4 6-0
6-4 6-3 6-2

This year, he did win nine games rather than seven, but that is rather glacial progress!
 
D

Deleted member 743561

Guest
Thiem isn't getting much closer, though. Three years in a row, it took Nadal or Djokovic to stop him at RG, but they beat him very easily on all three occasions:

6-2 6-1 6-4
6-3 6-4 6-0
6-4 6-3 6-2

This year, he did win nine games rather than seven, but that is rather glacial progress!
Those straight-set scorelines are actually an interesting observation. I don't see the "transitional" matches taking the form of these knock-down, drag-out slugfests to which we've become accustomed in recent years. I think when one of these guys finally cracks the code, it becomes a whitewashing the other way.
 
Those straight-set scorelines are actually an interesting observation. I don't see the "transitional" matches taking the form of these knock-down, drag-out slugfests to which we've become accustomed in recent years. I think when one of these guys finally cracks the code, it becomes a whitewashing the other way.

I could see that being the case for Zverev or one of the teenagers, though it's hard to tell which of them yet. I can't see Thiem suddenly winning easily against an older player. Thiem turns 25 in less than a month, so I don't think sudden rapid improvement is likely for him.
 
D

Deleted member 743561

Guest
I could see that being the case for Zverev or one of the teenagers, though it's hard to tell which of them yet. I can't see Thiem suddenly winning easily against an older player. Thiem turns 25 in less than a month, so I don't think sudden rapid improvement is likely for him.
Maybe it won't take rapid improvement. Two-way street. Things have been breaking right for the old guard... but the wheels could fall off.

The formula for conquering the ATGs is likely to involve them losing as much as the challengers winning.
 
No single player in the history of tennis could defeat 2018 Nadal at RG, with the exception of peak Nadal or an inspired Soderling maybe.

I disagree here....
Any nadal version from 2005-17 (except for 2015, 2016) would have straight setted 2018dal.... The 2018 level was even below 2017, which itself is much lower than other years' nadals....
Especially 2008 nadal would have given 3 bagels maybe

2005-07, 2009, 2011 fed would easily beat 2018dal in 3/4...
2011-16 djok would eat away 2018dal in 3/4
2015 stan takes him in 4....

Nadal's 2018 level, even on clay, is much much lower than past versions, but none could expose it...
Diego could have made it for sure, but rain....
 
No single player in the history of tennis could defeat 2018 Nadal at RG, with the exception of peak Nadal or an inspired Soderling maybe.

I disagree here....
Any nadal version from 2005-17 (except for 2015, 2016) would have straight setted 2018dal.... The 2018 level was even below 2017, which itself is much lower than other years' nadals....
Especially 2008 nadal would have given 3 bagels maybe

2005-07, 2009, 2011 fed would easily beat 2018dal in 3/4...
2011-16 djok would eat away 2018dal in 3/4
2015 stan takes him in 4....

Nadal's 2018 level, even on clay, is much much lower than past versions, but none could expose it...
Diego could have made it for sure, but rain....
 

Gemini

Hall of Fame
Thiem's best moments only seem to present themselves on clay. Zverev seems more balanced when it comes to results despite the surface so his opportunities are greater. If either wins a major, Zverev will get there first.
 
D

Deleted member 743561

Guest
Torn, Nadal winning is epic but Thiem needs a boost fast before he ends up like Dimitrov :oops:
He looked and sounded so confident before this year's final.

I felt if he'd taken that first set, things might have broken differently. Thoughts?
 

Enceladus

Legend
Early in July, it I was said that Thiem. But now I'm not sure because in Wimbledon Djokovic returned in full strength. If Nadal had lost on RG 2019/20, Thiem would still have a difficult path to the title because he would face Djokovic.
 

Plamen1234

Hall of Fame
I disagree here....
Any nadal version from 2005-17 (except for 2015, 2016) would have straight setted 2018dal.... The 2018 level was even below 2017, which itself is much lower than other years' nadals....
Especially 2008 nadal would have given 3 bagels maybe

2005-07, 2009, 2011 fed would easily beat 2018dal in 3/4...
2011-16 djok would eat away 2018dal in 3/4
2015 stan takes him in 4....

Nadal's 2018 level, even on clay, is much much lower than past versions, but none could expose it...
Diego could have made it for sure, but rain....

And lets not forget that Nadal was losing against Zverev in Rome before the rain saved him.
 

tennisgurl

Semi-Pro
My bet will be on Sasha (even though I like Thiem too)..the younger Zverev just has a more complete game atm I feel
 
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