Thiem rejects plan to help lower ranked players

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Miki 1234

Semi-Pro
I've seen players on the ITF-Tour who don't commit to the sport 100 per cent. Many of them are quite unprofessional. I don't see, why I should give them money.



Just shows that arrogance and selfishness is quite normal in pro sports .
Some hide it better then quadruple bypass personality patient Dominic Thiem tho.
I would just like to ad what about all of those thousands of college players that finished college only because of tennis . Are they also not professional even tho they earned their profession by playing tennis . And how come such players almost never make it in pro tennis. It should be a walk in a park with so many lazy useless players competing .After all pro tennis pays much more then college deegree.
 

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
He didn't know it, but Dominic Thiem had just become the center of attention in the tennis world. His words and opinions about the Common Fund to help players between the 250 and 700 of the ATP ranking set off a devastating storm of comments. Many distorted his words, others nuanced them and some were devoted merely to passing an opinion on the Austrian's statements.

The general reaction was undoubtedly negative. The Austrian appealed at all times to an alleged lack of professionalism of many tennis players who live on the Futures circuit, bound to positions in the ranking that are completely uncomfortable. "None of the low ranking players are fighting for their lives right now. I have seen a lot of cases of ITF Tour players who are not 100% committed to this sport, many of them behaving in an unprofessional manner. I do not understand why we should now give him our money. "

The concept behind those statements is relatively clear: not all players who will receive money from the Player Relief Fund deserve it if we rely on effort and the desire to move up. However, the controversy generated behind those words has forced the Austrian to speak publicly. Not to retract his words, but to clarify them and explain his argument in greater depth. "There are some details, little things, that bother me about all this," Dominic said in a few words picked up by Spox. One of the inconsistencies that the Austrian finds is the cut that this fund makes in the 700th player in the world. "There are 2,000 players in the ranking, there are also the players behind 700." But that's not what bothers Thiem the most.

"I am not going to change my opinion or what I said the other day. There are some players that I do not want to support. Consequently, I would prefer that the players choose, for ourselves, to whom all this money should go, who will give it to them He truly deserves and would benefit from it. " Of course, the Austrian also took the opportunity to qualify his words before the immense snowball generated. "My statements seemed a bit harsh, I did not want to say it in such a hurtful way. But there is something that is true, and it is that not only in these times, there are people, organizations or animals that need our help much more than probably any athlete". Thus, the Austrian stressed what he said last week: that there are institutions that should have a higher priority when receiving financial aid.

 

Cashman

Hall of Fame
I've seen players on the ITF-Tour who don't commit to the sport 100 per cent. Many of them are quite unprofessional. I don't see, why I should give them money.



Just shows that arrogance and selfishness is quite normal in pro sports .
Some hide it better then quadruple bypass personality patient Dominic Thiem tho.
I would just like to ad what about all of those thousands of college players that finished college only because of tennis . Are they also not professional even tho they earned their profession by playing tennis . And how come such players almost never make it in pro tennis. It should be a walk in a park with so many lazy useless players competing .After all pro tennis pays much more then college deegree.
All he was saying is that if he is going to donate money for COVID-19 relief, he would rather do it to people who need it more than pro athletes.

Lower ranked players may earn about as much as people working minimum wage at McDonalds - but unlike fast food workers, they aren’t there because they need the money. They are choosing to chase a dream - any and all of them could walk into a very nicely paid club pro gig any time they like.

The real reason why this fund is being pushed isn’t because lower ranked tennis players are at risk of starving. It’s because there is a risk that they will all abandon the satellite tour and go get real jobs. That would be devastating for the sport’s ongoing viability and development.

That’s a business problem for the ATP and WTA, so it’s their responsibility to solve it. If the top players bail them out with charity, it will mean they can avoid addressing the fact that the economic model for pro tennis is completely ****ed up.
 
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tacou

G.O.A.T.
This is very dumb. Countless articles, written by players themselves, have illuminated how players ranked outside the top 100 break even at best.

Yes, there are people in critical condition in hospitals right now. These are strange, sad, hard times.
There are also tons of people out of work with little to no safety net, and the world no. 300 tennis player most definitely could be in that situation.
 
Federer bailed everyone out anyway.

Thiem doesn't have it like the Big 3, so I understand him not letting go of some change. Federer took care of it. Don't worry. Daddy saved the sport.
 

SonnyT

Legend
I admire his honesty and courage, speaking out against the Big 3!

Depends on how the fund's structured. He's ranked in the top 4, but the other 3 are at least 10 times richer than him. So if the contribution is based on ranking, it's unfair to him and everyone else except the Big 3. The devil is in the details, as almost always is!
 

Tennease

Legend
Dominic Thiem may not care, but most tennis professionals lose money playing the game

By Cody Atkinson
Posted 10h ago, updated 5h ago


As the coronavirus pandemic continues to have a global impact, a battle is taking place inside one of the world's major sports.

On one side of the net stands the current men's world number one tennis player and ATP Player Council president Novak Djokovic, who is lobbying for a proposed fighting fund to help the lower-ranked professionals on tour keep their heads above water.

"The majority of the players who are ranked between 200, 250 in the world and the 700th or 1,000th [ranked player] do not have (national) federation support, do not have sponsors," Djokovic said.

"They are completely independent and left alone."


Djokovic and other top players, such as Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer, theorise that without an active lower level the elite base of men's tennis will suffer over time.

Opposed to Djokovic and his illustrious colleagues is men's world number three and rugged individualist, Dominic Thiem, who believes that any player struggling to make a living only has themselves to blame.

"There are many, many players who don't put the sport above everything else and don't live in a professional manner," Thiem told Austrian newspaper Krone.

"I don't really see why I should give such players money. None of us top players got anything handed to us, we all had to fight our way up."
Unlike many professional sports, tennis players essentially operate as independent contractors. There is no bargained minimum wage and no one to pick up the critical expenses required for day-to-day survival.

Screenshot-20200430-173759-Firefox.jpg


Time off the court is money out of their pockets. Injured tennis players often try to rush back from their ailments quickly to make sure they keep the cash coming.

With the sporting world largely in lockdown because of coronavirus, no elite players are hitting the court right now. Within the lower ranks, players are dipping below the breadline.

In 2014, the International Tennis Federation commissioned a study that suggested the average player cost for a tennis professional ranked between 101 and 250 in the world (without support staff and taxes) for a single season was $71,371.

About 95 per cent of all professional tennis players surveyed at this time said their prize money did not cover their costs.

A more inclusive look suggested about $250,000 is required to sustain an average-level player and support staff on tour for a year.

This means around the top 200 players on the ATP and WTA Tours do enough to support themselves adequately each year, and another 100 or so can scrape by through taking shortcuts and living cheaply.

Considering there are approximately 3,500 professional players on both the male and female sides, it means most players lose money while playing tennis.

Aussie O'Connell grinding out a living
A perfect case study is Australian journeyman Chris O'Connell.

During his tennis career, O'Connell has scrapped to keep his dream alive — selling clothes, washing boats and dodging border controls. It finally paid off last year.

No player contested or won more professional matches than O'Connell did in 2019, racking up 82 victories across the world.

Screenshot-20200430-174011-Firefox.jpg


According to O'Connell, he spent $90,000 on tour travelling as cheaply as he could. The 82 wins across the year blasted him up the rankings to number 114 in the world, earning him about $106,027 in prizemoney.

That gave O'Connell a profit of about $16,000.

O'Connell was able to win about as much prize money as the 227th-highest earning golfer on the US PGA Tour, a figure around the same amount of money that the 670th highest-paid AFL player takes home.

Djokovic and Thiem both earned in excess of 100 times what O'Connell was able to grind out.

12198376-3x2-xlarge.jpg

Chris O'Connell has lived a journeyman's existence on the ATP Tour.(AAP: Dan Himbrechts)

O'Connell's success on the smaller stage in 2019, however, has meant that he has been able to earn more money on tour already this year than last, despite not having won an ATP Tour match this season.

This is largely due to his lucrative first-round loss at the Australian Open.

Grand Slam tournament appearances are the financial lifeline of all tennis players, where they earn the big bucks. Last year, Australian Priscilla Hon won around $485,000 playing singles on the WTA Tour, contesting tournaments in locations such as 's-Hertogenbosch and Hiroshima.

Of that $485,000, about $350,000 came from the Grand Slam tournaments, where she only won a single main-draw match.

Hon earned more from losing in the second round of qualifying at Wimbledon last year than she did at any non-Grand Slam event.

For players stuck on the fringes of qualifying for Grand Slam tournaments (with a ranking around 220 in the world), they are forced to travel to far-flung places where they likely lose money and potentially earn precious ranking points to get to the big stage.

Ultimately, both Djokovic and Thiem have valid points to some degree.

For Djokovic, ensuring the growth of the game is for the greater good, as is minimising the real financial hurt some of his colleagues are feeling right now.

For Thiem, the prospect of taking away money he rightfully won might be painful and strikes at the heart of natural justice.

The Austrian, however, must recognise that less successful players are not necessarily unprofessional, rather they are perhaps less talented to begin with, or at least not as talented right now.

Maybe the best answer is that the system has been broken for a long time and the extended shutdown of almost all global sport (Belarussian football excluded) could be an ideal opportunity to fix broken and outdated financial models across all sports.
 

Cashman

Hall of Fame
According to O'Connell, he spent $90,000 on tour travelling as cheaply as he could. The 82 wins across the year blasted him up the rankings to number 114 in the world, earning him about $106,027 in prizemoney.

That gave O'Connell a profit of about $16,000.
Whilst I am sympathetic to the fact that this is not much money - O'Connell is the seventh best tennis player in Australia. If he wanted to come off the tour and take up full-time coaching, he could make a very comfortable living (although admittedly not right now, with all the clubs shut). He isn't making $16K a year because he has no other options - he's doing it because he's choosing to chase his dream.

Whilst I would like lower ranked players to earn more, it's not a black and white issue. Lower-ranked players do not bring money into the sport - Challengers and Futures operate at a net loss. These tournaments exist solely because they are crucial to player development. Given this, to a certain extent low earnings are good - because they create an 'up or out' system. That is - once it becomes apparent that a player is not going to crack the big-time, they quit and make room for the next up-and-coming kid.

If suddenly you can make a decent living by playing satellites, more and more has-beens and never-weres will hang around taking up draw spots into their 30s. This denies opportunities to the young players who the tournaments are actually designed to help.
 
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blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Whilst I am sympathetic to the fact that this is not much money - O'Connell is the seventh best tennis player in Australia. If he wanted to come off the tour and take up full-time coaching, he could make a very comfortable living (although admittedly not right now, with all the clubs shut). He isn't making $16K a year because he has no other options - he's doing it because he's choosing to chase his dream.

Whilst I would like lower ranked players to earn more, it's not a black and white issue. Lower-ranked players do not bring money into the sport - Challengers and Futures operate at a net loss. These tournaments exist solely because they are crucial to player development. Given this, to a certain extent low earnings are good - because they create an 'up or out' system. That is - once it becomes apparent that a player is not going to crack the big-time, they quit and make room for the next up-and-coming kid.

If suddenly you can make a decent living by playing satellites, more and more has-beens and never-weres will hang around taking up draw spots into their 30s. This denies opportunities to the young players who the tournaments are actually designed to help.

sure, much of what you say is correct.
and not blaming Thiem here.
but I do find it weird that in one of the biggest sports, players outside top 100 barely break-even financially or even burn cash.

there are many other sports, where a top 10'000 athlete makes a lot of money.

It should be ITF + ATP + WTA who takes care of the prize money paid out in smaller tournaments.
As I mentioned already, there is no need to reduce the prize money in early rounds of ATP level tournaments for example.
But if instead of ever increasing the payments for Masters + GS semi-final + final + winner, those funds would be directed to support the Challenger + Futures level tournaments, the situation would be better by now.
The players that reach those stages in Masters and GS, are not dependent on prize money, they get endorsements immediately.
 

mbm0912

Hall of Fame
It's hardly Thiem's responsibility to prop us lower ranked players. Let Mr. Billionaire take care of it.
 
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TU87

Rookie
Love Thiem's honesty in the age of political correctness. He is not the only player that feels this way I'm sure. This is professional tennis. These players decided that they wanted to be professional tennis players. Sorry that the 200th ranked tennis player does not make as much as the 200th ranked NFL player, but that has been known forever.
 

RVAtennisaddict

Professional
Agree this issue is discrepancies. If the lower ranks are so important for development, take some prize money from the top and spread it out more. If my they are unwilling to do that (ATP/WTP) they should suffer the consequences.

Countries tennis associations can also choose to help or hurt. I mean my usta dues and fees are really begin paid back to me... 40-60 for a league that then we players arrange court times, bring balls, equipment etc. Effectively we pay a fee to be able to record scores to affect our ranking and a possibility (remote) to play sectionals/regionals/nationals.
 

pat200

Semi-Pro
The solution in tennis is to spread the prize money a bit more. those who reach the last 4 rounds for example make an exorbitant amount of money. Take away from the top prizes and distribute to the lower and everyone would still be happy. This is the problem with the whole capitalist system.
 

Miki 1234

Semi-Pro
All he was saying is that if he is going to donate money for COVID-19 relief, he would rather do it to people who need it more than pro athletes.

Lower ranked players may earn about as much as people working minimum wage at McDonalds - but unlike fast food workers, they aren’t there because they need the money. They are choosing to chase a dream - any and all of them could walk into a very nicely paid club pro gig any time they like.

The real reason why this fund is being pushed isn’t because lower ranked tennis players are at risk of starving. It’s because there is a risk that they will all abandon the satellite tour and go get real jobs. That would be devastating for the sport’s ongoing viability and development.

That’s a business problem for the ATP and WTA, so it’s their responsibility to solve it. If the top players bail them out with charity, it will mean they can avoid addressing the fact that the economic model for pro tennis is completely ****ed up.

People dont realize there is huge difference in life quality in different countries .
Most futures players come from **** countries in europe or over the world where mcdonalds pays 400 eu per month and college degree 800.
This is like at least 80 percent of touring guys from 250 to 800.
They dont earn any money at all. Most of them scrap to survive , by playing club matches and from parents .They reduce cost of living ,practicing and physiotherapy therapy to 0 and all money goes to tournaments.
You can survive with extra 10k eu a year playing tennis and even less in a lot of eu countries .
So why not chase a dream if you are already top 500 and spend all your life doing it. You deserved it. Its not like something better is waiting for you.
You can always coach.

Now its not up to you or me to tell em stop playing , its only if we support or not.
Some made first step and did and some dont want to support sport that gave them everything they have .

Thiem gladly abuses this sport and makes academy on his name and charge crazy amounts and sell dreams to noobs.
Are those players in his academy professional or not. If not why does he charge that insane amount for lazy mfs.

He tell clients they are pro even tho they cant win a match and top 500 are not pros .
Hypocrisy at its finest.
 

Enga

Hall of Fame
I think I know what he means when he says some players lack professionalism- Tennis isnt like other sports. Ask your mom what she thinks if you told her youre gonna be a top 1000 ranked tennis player. She will likely take that to mean youre gonna be a bum who plays games too much while living off the family's coin.

There is not much room for "elite" players. No one is really interested in ranked 700 players and they do not contribute much to the sport. The supposition that it is an investment in the sport doesnt usually pan out. These guys have already hit their ceiling and will not get better. I would daresay that financial aid would simply encourage them to gatekeep, acting as a wall for young talent, stifling their growth.

They can contribute as much by playing the game for fun with local players as they could touring around trying desperately to score an ATP point.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
I think I know what he means when he says some players lack professionalism- Tennis isnt like other sports. Ask your mom what she thinks if you told her youre gonna be a top 1000 ranked tennis player. She will likely take that to mean youre gonna be a bum who plays games too much while living off the family's coin.

There is not much room for "elite" players. No one is really interested in ranked 700 players and they do not contribute much to the sport. The supposition that it is an investment in the sport doesnt usually pan out. These guys have already hit their ceiling and will not get better. I would daresay that financial aid would simply encourage them to gatekeep, acting as a wall for young talent, stifling their growth.

They can contribute as much by playing the game for fun with local players as they could touring around trying desperately to score an ATP point.

ask your mom what she thinks if youre gonna be a top 1000 ranked volleyball player.

well, you are gonna make money, even if people won't line-up in front of the stadium to watch the #1000 player in the world.
in other sports, in football, for example, some teams play with empty stadiums, yet their pros, who might not even be in the top 10'000 players in the world, are doing quite OK financially.
so why tennis shall be resumed to the big 3?
1. do you think it would be very interesting to have grand slams starting a the semifinal stage because nobody cares about players who are not part of big3?
2. from where shall you have new talent, if tennis is limited to top 20 / 50 / 100 players?
 

SeeItHitIt

Professional
Cancel Culture 101. Dom spoke out. Its disturbing to hear such words for the average (choose your gender here). Words hurt. He must be a jerk wad. A spoiled barely older than teenager shooting his mouth off.

Then again, this could be his learned opinion and in/from his experience. There might even be an ounce of truth to it...ahh, it doesn’t matter. Dom is bad, he must be cancelled.

[sarc off]
 

Miki 1234

Semi-Pro
Cancel Culture 101. Dom spoke out. Its disturbing to hear such words for the average (choose your gender here). Words hurt. He must be a jerk wad. A spoiled barely older than teenager shooting his mouth off.

Then again, this could be his learned opinion and in/from his experience. There might even be an ounce of truth to it...ahh, it doesn’t matter. Dom is bad, he must be cancelled.

[sarc off]


All players in his academy are professional btw even tho most of them will not get a single atp point.
But such a hard workers and so professional not like itf guys.
If not im sure Dominic would not take their money. 5k per month to be exact
He is not cheat and hypocrite after all with such high morals about what is professional and not.
He would surely not take money from lazy non professionals let alone cheat them that they will be pros.

That is how u put sarc on.
Hope u learned a lesson.
 

Enga

Hall of Fame
ask your mom what she thinks if youre gonna be a top 1000 ranked volleyball player.

well, you are gonna make money, even if people won't line-up in front of the stadium to watch the #1000 player in the world.
in other sports, in football, for example, some teams play with empty stadiums, yet their pros, who might not even be in the top 10'000 players in the world, are doing quite OK financially.
so why tennis shall be resumed to the big 3?
1. do you think it would be very interesting to have grand slams starting a the semifinal stage because nobody cares about players who are not part of big3?
2. from where shall you have new talent, if tennis is limited to top 20 / 50 / 100 players?
1. What do you think?
2. Where do you think?

It's really pointless to answer those questions because it's so simple my head could explode. Tennis is a GAME. You play the GAME to get better at the GAME. If you're good enough, people might pay to see you play. Otherwise, it's just a game. Beggars can't be choosers.

Also, you guys put too much stock in the ATP rankings. Past around the 124 rank its kinda meaningless. Rank is all chance and happenstance at that level. Basically what I'm saying is, the top 1000 ranked players are not the 1000 best players.
 

Miki 1234

Semi-Pro
1. What do you think?
2. Where do you think?

It's really pointless to answer those questions because it's so simple my head could explode. Tennis is a GAME. You play the GAME to get better at the GAME. If you're good enough, people might pay to see you play. Otherwise, it's just a game. Beggars can't be choosers.

Also, you guys put too much stock in the ATP rankings. Past around the 124 rank its kinda meaningless. Rank is all chance and happenstance at that level. Basically what I'm saying is, the top 1000 ranked players are not the 1000 best players.

Sure but that is not even an opinion.
I could say the same about your life , its just a life if u die why would i care, its life you die you live better or worse it just a life.
And just about everything else .
And im not saying that it is , just an example.
But in real life you try to improve stuff you do even if its just a game.
If not why bother.
And some good steps are very welcome and someone needs to make them.
Some did.
 

Enga

Hall of Fame
Sure but that is not even an opinion.
I could say the same about your life , its just a life if u die why would i care, its life you die you live better or worse it just a life.
And just about everything else .
And im not saying that it is , just an example.
But in real life you try to improve stuff you do even if its just a game.
If not why bother.
And some good steps are very welcome and someone needs to make them.
Some did.
I don't understand the relevance of anything you've said so far. Like the Thiem academy thing. He charges people to play at his academy right? Is that supposed to be contradictory? He's taking money from them, not giving it. It's completely consistent with everything he said.
 

Miki 1234

Semi-Pro
I don't understand the relevance of anything you've said so far. Like the Thiem academy thing. He charges people to play at his academy right? Is that supposed to be contradictory? He's taking money from them, not giving it. It's completely consistent with everything he said.



So its ok to abuse the sport and charge absurd amounts from mostly totally unprofessionals.
But its not ok to help the sport and players who are btw 10x better then 99 percent of his academy.

So yeah its consistent but why would anyone like this guy
or like people like you for that matter who think everything is just crap since they dont do it.
Not surprised at all you dont get it.
 
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Enga

Hall of Fame
So its ok to abuse the sport and charge absurd amounts from mostly totally unprofessionals.
But its not ok to help the sport and players who are btw 10x better then 99 percent of his academy.

So yeah its consistent but why would anyone like this guy
or like people like you for that matter who think everything is just crap since they dont do it.
Not surprised at all you dont get it.
I would say its ok to help players you want to help. What's most important in life is you do things you want to do, because you want to do it. Not because politics pressures you to so that you can maintain a nice boy image. If that's what life is, appeasing a mass of strangers for the sake of politics, then I would happily play the villain.
 
Whilst I am sympathetic to the fact that this is not much money - O'Connell is the seventh best tennis player in Australia. If he wanted to come off the tour and take up full-time coaching, he could make a very comfortable living (although admittedly not right now, with all the clubs shut). He isn't making $16K a year because he has no other options - he's doing it because he's choosing to chase his dream.

Whilst I would like lower ranked players to earn more, it's not a black and white issue. Lower-ranked players do not bring money into the sport - Challengers and Futures operate at a net loss. These tournaments exist solely because they are crucial to player development. Given this, to a certain extent low earnings are good - because they create an 'up or out' system. That is - once it becomes apparent that a player is not going to crack the big-time, they quit and make room for the next up-and-coming kid.

If suddenly you can make a decent living by playing satellites, more and more has-beens and never-weres will hang around taking up draw spots into their 30s. This denies opportunities to the young players who the tournaments are actually designed to help.

Your last part is unfortunately right. My dream, although just a dream would be for tennis to be popular that has beens and not so greats actually could make a decent living. That would be cool. But unlikely.
 
The solution in tennis is to spread the prize money a bit more. those who reach the last 4 rounds for example make an exorbitant amount of money. Take away from the top prizes and distribute to the lower and everyone would still be happy. This is the problem with the whole capitalist system.

Agree 100%. It would help so much. And not hurt much.
 
Does anybody else have examples of Dominic being not so PC or being a little bit of doucchebagg? Because I remember his coach that left him saying something along the lines of "he is a nice looking house on the outside but on the inside it's much different."

I ballboyed for him in Miami and he seemed nice enough. Didn't say thank you when I'd give him his sweaty towel back though...
 

Miki 1234

Semi-Pro
I would say its ok to help players you want to help. What's most important in life is you do things you want to do, because you want to do it. Not because politics pressures you to so that you can maintain a nice boy image. If that's what life is, appeasing a mass of strangers for the sake of politics, then I would happily play the villain.

And its ok to to make academy on your name and tell parents the quite opposite what you think . Thats just good business.
And its ok to be hypocrite and have double standards and change opinion in 2 sec if needed.
And its ok to have high morals after that .
Well thats how you do it.
Sure man but you are not playing a villain you are one.
 
And its ok to to make academy on your name and tell parents the quite opposite what you think . Thats just good business.
And its ok to be hypocrite and have double standards when it suits you so you dont have to pay.
And its ok to have high morals after that .
Well thats how you do it.
Sure man you but then you are not playing a villain you are one.

The world is a lot more screwed up than this tennis players little hypocrisies... But I agree he doesn't seem like a totally transparently good guy or role model.
 

Miki 1234

Semi-Pro
The world is a lot more screwed up than this tennis players little hypocrisies... But I agree he doesn't seem like a totally transparently good guy or role model.
You are very right , he is just plain stupid kid with to much time that pushed the wrong button.
He will learn from this.
They all did this crap sooner or later more or less....
But you dont bite the hand that is feeding you thats for sure.
 

Enga

Hall of Fame
And its ok to to make academy on your name and tell parents the quite opposite what you think . Thats just good business.
And its ok to be hypocrite and have double standards and change opinion in 2 sec if needed.
And its ok to have high morals after that .
Well thats how you do it.
Sure man but you are not playing a villain you are one.
Why are you calling him a hypocrite when we just established that he has remained consistent?

I wonder if you know the words you're typing. I considered ignoring you because your grasp of English is low but now I see I made the mistake in not doing so.

You also reveal yourself to be the typical modern zealot and boring tribal human.
 

Miki 1234

Semi-Pro
Why are you calling him a hypocrite when we just established that he has remained consistent?

I wonder if you know the words you're typing. I considered ignoring you because your grasp of English is low but now I see I made the mistake in not doing so.

You also reveal yourself to be the typical modern zealot and boring tribal human.

How is consistent to say to one group of people you are great but to another which is clearly 10x better you suck at the exact same sport.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
So you defend Thiem by imagining that he has better causes when it's clear that this is not his argument for rejecting the plan?

Thiem can do whatever with "his" money. He may be giving to a better cause which he may never tell us about. So, I will never judge Thiem on this one.
 

AceSalvo

Legend
So you defend Thiem by imagining that he has better causes when it's clear that this is not his argument for rejecting the plan?

Does Thiem owe you an exact explanation of his argument so that its "clear" to you??

Which part of "its his hard earned money" do you not understand?? And why do you think Thiem should make his argument clear cut so that you can sleep better at night??
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
Love Thiem's honesty in the age of political correctness. He is not the only player that feels this way I'm sure. This is professional tennis. These players decided that they wanted to be professional tennis players. Sorry that the 200th ranked tennis player does not make as much as the 200th ranked NFL player, but that has been known forever.

The term “political correctness” lost any specific meaning long ago but if I had to guess you seem to be using it to mean “an opinion I don’t agree with,” which is fine but it would be clearer just to say that.

I find Thiem’s point regarding, in essence, that there are people hurting a lot more than tennis players he’d rather help unpersuasive. The attempt by certain tennis players to establish a fund to assist lower ranked players is similar to other industries and individual businesses pulling together to help their specific industry or business, as the case may be. He should help pro tennis and he obviously can also give to others if he wants.

It also seems to me that wrapped up in this assistance fund question is the question that periodically arises of how many players should you have in pro tennis and which Thiem implicitly raises with his objection to supporting very low ranked players. I think it a fair point. Maybe up to ranked 350 ?

Tennis is extremely top heavy with respect to earnings, the top guys make the bulk of the money on and off the court and will continue to earn off the court money even with no tournaments, the amount being asked from the top players seems trivial when you make millions (tens of millions in the case of some) a year and you can‘t have the Major events without some players ranked above 100.

Once the top players figure out who and how much, Thiem should pony up.
 
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AceSalvo

Legend
Its ATP that has to make a "mandatory" compensation for players who cannot break even while playing in the system ATP built.

Thiem has no "mandatory" obligation to take part in this. Thiem probably has seen first hand how there are lower ranked players who are just fooling around and does not want to spend money on them. Yes there are other hard working lower ranked players. Again, Thiem may chose not to support them as well. No harm done.

I didn't see any Australian shaming Thiem for not donating towards the Australian Wildfire cause. If he thought thats Australia's problem, so be it. Its his money.
 
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Gazelle

G.O.A.T.
Thiem has a point. Remember Tomic? The guy who admitted he just showed up for a first round paycheck and didn't put in any effort?

Well, Tomic right now is ranked 202, and thus would benefit from the charity. Why should Thiem give him his money, while he doesn't put the work into it, and is still busy counting all his millions?

Now, Thiem can illustrate and clarify his case with all the arguments in the world, it will be to no avail. Since people are obsessed with seeing everything black/white (instead of admitting both sides charity/no charity have a point), many people who don't agree with Thiem will simply villainize him, without listening to what he has to say.
 
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AceSalvo

Legend
Well, Tomic right now is ranked 202, and thus would benefit from the charity. Why should Thiem give him his money, while he doesn't put the work into it, and is still busy counting all his millions?


Are we also going to fact-check who from the 200-700 is earning money via side businesses?? Why would those players need more money?? How long will this take and what is the baseline amount??

The US stimulus check were based on tax information on "all" income. Good luck doing something like that here.
 
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