fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
So I haven't read any major ******** yet.
Where you get your wisdom from?
Dominic doesn't have his own academy.
Thiem rejects plan to help lower ranked players
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Where you get your wisdom from?
Dominic doesn't have his own academy.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
After calculating travel-related expenses and tournament earnings, the vast majority of lower-ranked players are deeply in the RED and do NOT rely on tournament earnings to eat.
In fact, their huge expenses dwarf their measly tournament earnings. They are actually financially better off now with the covid shutdown and lack of travel expenses.
So your notion that they must be "compensated for lost tournament earnings" is a rather misguided one I'm afraid.
Perhaps you can try again with the "social welfare" angle as your "tournament earnings" argument has just been utterly destroyed.
Sorry!
In 2014, the International Tennis Federation commissioned a study that suggested the average player cost for a tennis professional ranked between 101 and 250 in the world (without support staff and taxes) for a single season was $71,371.
About 95 per cent of all professional tennis players surveyed at this time said their prize money did not cover their costs.
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His uncle or father has.
What about club matches which is major source of income if not the only one.
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
But that's not true either - Dominic has no uncle who plays tennis.
In reality Dominic and his friends, Dennis Novak, Sebastian Ofner and Jurij Rodionov (currently the 4 best tennis players in Austria) have left Südstadt (former academy of G. Bresnik) and are now in the "Better Tennis Center" in Alt Erlaa. (directly in Vienna). That is all!
You said that players in top 500 have ultimate meritocracy.
Which cant be further from the truth.
Most cant even afford a decent meal but eat sandwiches in the room , let alone coach how is that lvl playing field.
Most college players dont get a single point.
College doesnt seem to mind giving them scolarship.
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In that academy thiems dad or some cousin coached for years and it was practicaly his , had a friend who played there.
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
that's not true either - Wolfgang Thiem, was a tennis coach at the Bresnik Academy for many years and has spent the last 10 years training at that Academy.
People come to practice there coz of Thiem and pay 5k dollars on month to his family.
Hes being fed by the same guys he bashes any way you put it.
My friend always said he practices on thiem academy btw.
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
Then you must have mixed up something - that's just not true.
Here's proof:
Tennis: Wolfgang Thiem: Bresnik "hat sich selbst abgeschossen"
Nach der Trennung seines Sohnes Dominic hat sich wenige Monate später auch Vater Wolfgang Thiem beruflich von Günter Bresnik getrennt.
www.kleinezeitung.at
Then you must have mixed up something - that's just not true.
Here's proof:
Tennis: Wolfgang Thiem: Bresnik "hat sich selbst abgeschossen"
Nach der Trennung seines Sohnes Dominic hat sich wenige Monate später auch Vater Wolfgang Thiem beruflich von Günter Bresnik getrennt.
Makes no difference really since hes father is a coach hes born and raised on money of people he despises.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
What are "club matches"? These ATP Pros beat up on the local club players?
fritzhimself
Hall of Fame
I think there's something wrong with you.
D
Deleted member 769694
Guest
Club matches are like high lvl league tennis. Like a college team
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
He says that club matches are only source of income for these lower ranked ATP pros
Never heard of such a thing in America... Must be a European thing.
There are major club matched in france italy and germany plus many others .
Players normaly play at least 2 leagues and more .
That is 3 to 6 matches per league and 1k plus eu for 400 atp player or so. Dont know the exact prices now ...And this is most of the money players live from.
Down side of this is they lose weeks that should be spent on tournaments and practice and time.
Same time you need good ranking to get good money so its a race to make points then get money to get points again.Not that easy .
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
You are talking nonsense as usual. You are dealing with averages. Looked at this way, many are better off not playing tennis forever.
What we are talking about here is lost earning potential, whether realised or not, so this is why a tiny fund is being proposed to give them some token compensatory payment.
It's a gesture of kindness, that's all. It does not address the more fundamental issues plaguing tennis, and is not designed to do so.
What we are talking about here is lost earning potential, whether realised or not, so this is why a tiny fund is being proposed to give them some token compensatory payment.
It's a gesture of kindness, that's all. It does not address the more fundamental issues plaguing tennis, and is not designed to do so.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
The typical #300-#500 ranked player is deeply in the RED. They have gladly made that choice in order to chase a dream.
They would have been even deeper in the RED had covid never happened.
There is no charity distribution required here. Just as Thiem said, charity efforts are much better directed elsewhere.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
What do the tennis players need money for now when they aren’t travelling anyway? They are getting money from the state, staying home.
People who lost their jobs now in various businesses ain’t getting any money from their previous employers. I don’t see why tennis players should get special treatment.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
I can't see how people donating money into a fund is special treatment unless you want to ban all charitable donation and have universal reliance on the state.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
The players who want to donate can do that, they shouldn’t be forced!
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
These lower ranked players forego lucrative teaching opportunities in order to travel the world in order to pursue their dreams of hitting the jackpot as a top ATP pro.
This is not a charity scenario.
The reality is that the typical low rank player spends more on travel expenses than they gain in tournament winnings.
The fact of the matter is that these players are now, ironically, in a much better financial position without the travelling expenses.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Exactly what I think too!
Its better donations given to the ones that really needs it, maybe the elderly that are dying like flies and not properly taken care of for example. Give them a respectful living in the end of their lives.
Sure what about world piece lets make that happen.
Lets help starving kids in africa as well.
Hey lets pushed that even further maybe people should not play tennis or watch tennis at all,
or writing on forums
If they can give up on their dream for which they worked for 15 years so can we give up our hobby and help the poor.
Lets put that money were it belongs.
This world needs a change.
Wow this feels so good now im morally superior I feel like a superman
Now i know why you all do it .
Goes back to eating doritos and watches youtube....
Oh and quit the these scholarships colleges give to lazy tennis players which cant even break top 100 atp.
Why would they give 100k plus to rec players that cant even play at futures most of the time.
And give them to somebody who really deserves it.
Superman warriors like me.
I will probably go on this feels much better then expected.
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Why would someone try for 15 years to come to top 300 and then start teaching
They can teach after they finished.
And if someone is 800 he would probably like to get 500 .
Also in most countries there is nothing lucrative in tennis coaching , i know many that barely survive being top 300 atp
You only talk from us perspective and almost no one in us plays pro tennis.
They lose from ****y lil croatia 5x in a row in davis cup.
makes no sense what you say.
So you ask why do they do it
1. they come from poor countries and not much opportunities anyway
2. because itf tournaments are structured in such way to make players hooked on playing as much as possible because they tax each and every tournament and make money of it.
The more tournamets the better for them worse for players.
Its a scam .
If they wanted to they would just use old satelite method where were only 800 players and even less if they wanted to.
put only 3,4 futures per week like challengers and who makes past open pre qualy and qualy and few main draws is already worth 500 at least.
If they cant they quit in a year no harm done they had a chance of real play after all.
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TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Eh
That was a bit too much from you. An essay cause I agree w Thiem wouldn’t like to give tennis players money when they get it from the state anyway.
Goodness me
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
No one is being forced ... but I await eagerly the next shift in your objection.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
People always point elsewhere when they want to escape a duty that falls on them.
The idea is that the tennis community should make a tiny donation to those among their own community.
The idea is that the tennis community should make a tiny donation to those among their own community.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
I see that you have given up all pretence at argument ... and moved on to direct personal attack.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Whatever Bartelby...you are all the time insulting and you have done so plenty of times with me, I don’t care, but at least have the respect that others can treat you the same.
have a good night.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Congratulations. You are finally beginning to understand that the #300-#700 player is not covering his travel-related expenses.
He is chasing the dream of being a top ATP pro and earning millions. He has gladly made the choice of foregoing a lucrative club teaching job to chase that top ATP dream...
Covid has shut down yacht races too. According to you, they need a bailout from fellow yacht owners.
Look at this Aussie player Chris O'Connell. He reached the Top 100. Won more matches than anybody in the ATP. And still only broke even. He could earn far more teaching but has gladly made that choice to lose money.
Now, if a Top 100 guy is only breaking even, just imagine how deeply in the RED the lower ranked players are.
This means around the top 200 players on the ATP and WTA Tours do enough to support themselves adequately each year, and another 100 or so can scrape by through taking shortcuts and living cheaply.
Considering there are approximately 3,500 professional players on both the male and female sides, it means most players lose money while playing tennis.
Aussie O'Connell grinding out a living
A perfect case study is Australian journeyman Chris O'Connell.
During his tennis career, O'Connell has scrapped to keep his dream alive — selling clothes, washing boats and dodging border controls. It finally paid off last year.
No player contested or won more professional matches than O'Connell did in 2019, racking up 82 victories across the world.
According to O'Connell, he spent $90,000 on tour travelling as cheaply as he could. The 82 wins across the year blasted him up the rankings to number 114 in the world, earning him about $106,027 in prizemoney.
That gave O'Connell a profit of about $16,000.
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Bartelby
Bionic Poster
I was pointing out how silly your reductio ad absudum was. We are talking about a donation here, not the viabiltiy of the tour. Stay relevant!
Your mentor may lack empathy, but you still have a chance.
Your mentor may lack empathy, but you still have a chance.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
We like to deal with facts. Facts are so wonderful and we do hope that you learn to embrace them.
The unfortunate irony here is that the low ranked 2020 covid sidelined player has far less expenses today compared to 2019.
The 2020 player has budgeted $100,000 for 2020 traveling and tour expenses which he has not used.
The fact of the matter is that the struggling lowly ranked player was in far greater financial need in 2019 with his touring expenses and losing in the early rounds of tournaments.
And what was donated in 2019? Nothing! Now we are being told that this same player needs a donation in 2020 when he is financially better off?
No. We, along with Thiem, will direct our charity efforts to far worthy causes. And hope the Big Three do the same with the millions they are considering donating.
Please do try to show empathy to those people that are truly struggling during this pandemic. It really is very cruel and elitist.
No player contested or won more professional matches than O'Connell did in 2019, racking up 82 victories across the world.
According to O'Connell, he spent $90,000 on tour travelling as cheaply as he could.
The 82 wins across the year blasted him up the rankings to number 114 in the world, earning him about $106,027 in prizemoney. That gave O'Connell a profit of about $16,000.
Thousands of hungry people line up for food in South Africa
OLIEVENHOUTBOS, South Africa (AP) - Thousands of people stood in line for hours on Saturday in a South African township waiting for handouts of food. The scene has repeated for days in one of the world's most unequal countries as charities haul essentials to low-income neighborhoods suffering...
www.sfgate.com
Food lines a mile long in America’s second-wealthiest state - The Boston Globe
In more than 40 percent of households in New Jersey, at least one person is out of work because of the coronavirus pandemic, a Monmouth University poll released on Monday found.
www.bostonglobe.com
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You would be surprised.
But that means nothing to you.
49 out of top 50 want to help but what do they know about tennis and the business side of the sport.
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Bartelby
Bionic Poster
You won't be directing your charity to any worthy cause as you lack empathy, just like Thiem and your mentor.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
These lower tier players have already budgeted $100, 000 for their upcoming 2020 touring expenses. 99% of these low tier players will not even come close to breaking even in 2020. And that is fine with them.They have willingly chosen to pursue their dreams of being a top ATP pro,
knowing full well that it likely will be a very very unprofitable endeavor -- the #100 player barely broke even, let alone the #500.
Our Bart refuses to acknowledge that these low tier 2020 players, now suddenly shut down by covid and free of touring expenses are, quite ironically, financially better off today than in 2019, and are not deserving of charitable donations.
Why was our empathetic Bart not advocating for donations to these low tiered players in 2019 when they needed it far more than today?
Very peculiar indeed.
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Bartelby
Bionic Poster
The topic is not the viability of the tour, but of an empathetic response to an acute crisis.
These lower tier players have already budgeted $100, 000 for their upcoming 2020 touring expenses. 99% of these low tier players will not even come close to breaking even in 2020. And that is fine with them.They have willingly chosen to pursue their dreams of being a top ATP pro,
knowing full well that it likely will be a very very unprofitable endeavor -- the #100 player barely broke even, let alone the #500.
Our Bart refuses to acknowledge that these low tier 2020 players, now suddenly shut down by covid and free of touring expenses are, quite ironically, financially better off today than in 2019, and are not deserving of charitable donations.
Why was our empathetic Bart not advocating for donations to these low tiered players in 2019 when they needed it far more than today?
Very peculiar indeed.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
You are the one making the case for a charitable donation to these lower tier players from their more successful and more talented peers.
Links posted have clearly shown you that these lower tier ATP players do not even come close to meeting their tour expenses and operate at a loss for the year.
These lower tier players are, ironically enough, are financially better off during covid because they are sitting on a personal tour expense/travelling budget that has not been spent.
2019 Journeyman Player : $50,000 touring expense budget. $30,000 tournament winnings = $20,000 loss.
2020 Journeyman Player : Still sitting on top of most of his unspent $50,000 touring expense budget.
You are only half correct. There is a crisis. But lower tier ATP players are not the victims.
Thiem has it exactly right. Fix the system but charity is better spent elsewhere during this crisis. People are starving to death in food lines.
Empathetic response? There is nothing to respond to here. There is no fire.
You can stop sounding your false alarm and make an empathetic response to the true victims starving during this crisis.
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Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Thiem is free to do what he wants, but he lacks empathy for his fellow tennis players ... so that is a shame.
You are the one making the case for a charitable donation to these lower tier players from their more successful and more talented peers.
Links posted have clearly shown you that these lower tier ATP players do not even come close to meeting their tour expenses and operate at a loss for the year.
These lower tier players are, ironically enough, are financially better off during covid because they are sitting on a personal tour expense/travelling budget that has not been spent.
2019 Journeyman Player : $50,000 touring expense budget. $30,000 tournament winnings = $20,000 loss.
2020 Journeyman Player : Still sitting on top of most of his unspent $50,000 touring expense budget.
You are only half correct. There is a crisis. But lower tier ATP players are not the victims.
Thiem has it exactly right. Fix the system but charity is better spent elsewhere during this crisis. People are starving to death in food lines.
Empathetic response? There is nothing to respond to here. There is no fire.
You can stop sounding your false alarm and make an empathetic response to the true victims starving during this crisis.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Thiem strongly empathizes with players and supports a change in the system. Not charity gimmicks.
Unlike you, Thiem is wise enough to understand who is truly deserving of charity during this pandemic.
We are very impressed with Thiem indeed.
Save your empathy for those that are truly needy and suffering during this pandemic. Hint: It is not the #400 ranked ATP Pro touring the world.
"I'd rather donate to people & institutions, who really need it. There is no profession in the world, where you are guaranteed success and high income at the start of your career. None of the top players took anything for granted. We all had to fight our way up the rankings."
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Thiem doesn't really need anyone here to explain what he said.
He put forward a nasty proposition that treats his fellow professionals as beggars when they are not.
It's a shameful position to take, but it's hardly unusual in the rather brutal world we live in, and which the pandemic has not changed in the slightest.
He put forward a nasty proposition that treats his fellow professionals as beggars when they are not.
It's a shameful position to take, but it's hardly unusual in the rather brutal world we live in, and which the pandemic has not changed in the slightest.
"I'd rather donate to people & institutions, who really need it."
-- Dominick Thiem
There has always been poor people and there will always be poor people .
Thiem can help them when ever he wants.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
And there is a crisis in tennis ... now ... so if he wants to help he should act ... now.
If he has greater causes, then he should announce his donation ... now ... as the crisis is happening .... now.
If he has greater causes, then he should announce his donation ... now ... as the crisis is happening .... now.
a10best
Legend
a little tough to find but I the slams get a pretty sweet deal for the tournament.
They paid out $57 million last year
here's 2018:
Most Grand Slam revenue numbers are not made public, but the United States Tennis Association reported just over $380 million in U.S. Open revenue in 2018 and paid out $53 million in player compensation, which amounts to 13.94 percent of the total. The players get 14% of the tournament revenue. WT_?
In Tennis, Men and Women Are United in Looming Prize-Money Fight (Published 2019)
The players’ battle for a bigger piece of the pie at Grand Slam events is not a new one. What distinguishes the latest campaign is that it is a joint effort by men and women.
where's the protester professionals(Mac, Chrisssy and Martina) on this?
a10best
Legend
Not so wrong in many ways. I'd say very few. The slams keep all the money to themselves. They give out about 13-15% of the revenue. That's pure greed.
$380 million revenue at US Open 2018
Players got $57 million in that same 2018 US Open.
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Bartelby
Bionic Poster
The oligopoly power of the four slams is well-known and hard to dislodge, but it has nothing to do with Thiem's stinginess.
a10best
Legend
I prefer pivoting towards the real culprits of greed. The slams!!
The whiners are not Thiems kids. Therefore no liability or responsibility. he is not a true big four either.
Then again, the USTA is not responsible for European players' success. European Tennis Federation is.
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