Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by Red Rick, May 18, 2017.
How about this draw for Rafa ?
The low bounce in Rome was the difference. So many balls in Thiem's strike zone today versus Madrid where Nadal's heavy shots really neutered Thiem's game. Plus Thiem's big serves more profitable in Rome. RG higher bouncing. FFS Thiem barely got by the Destroyer.
Hopefully everyone now sees what I've been going on about. Thiem is a champion mentally. Nadal wanted back in this match, but Thiem still prevailed. Another dose of what I call "Thiem Gold" in this match where he just played at another level when necessary (the whole match). Nadal was merciless with his game on the big serve points in Madrid, but couldn't pull another rabbit out of the hat today.
I thought RG resembled Rome more than Madrid.
Thiem train hitting critical velocity.
Two of his titles last year were also won in that manner. He saved MP against Nadal to win Buenos Aires on clay I think and did the same against Federer to win Stuttgart on grass. Never write this guy off.
Exactly. Which is why I'd actually see this as a positive thing for Rafa. The way Thiem played today basically showed that he has given up playing his own game against Rafa, as he feels he will not beat him that way. Trust me. There is no way in hell that Thiem will be able to repeat this kind of performance over five sets against a 100% motivated Rafa if they meet at RG. Would be awesome if he did, but I just do not see it happening. Period.
Yeah. Maybe Meles means to say that Madrid played faster and I can imagine Nadal rushing Thiem in those conditions. Thiem needs all the time he can get to set up his big strokes so the slower the better. I won't read too much into this result, though. RG will be BO5. Let's see how he copes with that. To give credit where due, he made the semis last year so he did cope pretty well earlier and can do it again.
In a way, it reminds me of Dimitrov fighting till the last point at AO. Last week despite Thiem losing, I enjoyed the match.
Great job Thiem, congrats!
I think Thiem will beat Djokovic if Djokovic comes through today.
Not sad with this loss. Avoided two more grueling matches before FO. He can rest for a while before RG now. Playing Thiem and Djokovic back to back after playing some 17 matches in little over a month wasn't ideal prep for RG.
Interestingly, he was supposed to lose both the matches in straight sets but he saved MPs in both 2nd sets.
I actually think his pre RG preparation couldn't have gone better. He beat Djokovic which is a huge boost psychologically, gathered enough points to be in the top 4 and now has 10 days rest before the french open. Yes he is 31 but physically he has looked quite good. Maybe a slight sign of fatigue here but you would expect that after 3 titles on clay. Despite this loss he will feel confident about his game and you get a day break before every match at slams. It is also unlikely that all of his matches would be long. He can obviously lose at RG but IMO it won't be due to fatigue but because of someone outplaying him.
I agree. Thiem will probably lay down and not win the tournament. If he DOES win Rome, he's really arrived and hats off to him. But so often these young guns choke or lose after beating a great player. In order to send a real shock wave through the tour, he has at least win tomorrow and Sunday.
This. He should request a Wednesday start date too
"Tomorrow, I'll be in Majorca fishing or playing golf",Nadal who says Thiem was great whereas he didn't feel at best after all those matches
Q: "Rafa, what was wrong today?" Nadal: "What was wrong is that the other player played very well"
Nadal is the moral victor
You can argue either way. This makes him lose his aura and gives other players confidence.
I'm not a complete expert. Its closer, but Monte Carlo is supposed to be the closest. Temperature is just like altitude, more decreases air density and the ball really flys. I'm not sure about bounce height to be honest. RG was very wet last year and I believe 2009 was hot and dry. Not sure which conditions favor Thiem or Rafa. We found out today that Rafa liking Rome better than Madrid didn't matter for their matchup.
It has to be stressed that Nadal certainly played poorly at the start of this match and allowed Thiem to really tee off. He was back in at the end of 2nd as far as level, but still lost match in the end. Rafa has been great on serve, but when he gets tight (like the Fed match) he gets two conservative on first serve. Thiem won 50% of first return points in the 2nd set and Nadal very high 75% first serves in play. He may have reverted from the Moya game plan that has made him so great this year. Thiem was getting mauled on first serve in the first set believe it or not. Thiem adjusted in the 2nd and went bigger with just 56% in play, but a mighty 83% won. I can tell you I was screaming at the TV when Thiem DF'd trying to go for big 2nd serves. He was much better rolling them in. Thiem won 75% of his 2nd serve points in set one (smaller number of them). Rafa kept him at 43% in the 2nd, but Thiem still got through on serve. The big, big difference in 2017 for Thiem on clay is nice first return numbers, but also a more resillient serve game. It doesn't really show in the numbers too much, but Thiem just in his matches is winning a lot more matches in straight sets and we saw him dig out of 0-40 hole in Madrid with Rafa at end of first set.
The great think about this for Thiem is he's just going to get better and better. He'll be off next week and my only worry would be an early upset in the first few matches at RG by some big server like Querrey. (Thank the maker Querrey will be seeded along with Delpo at RG )
Your statement above (bolded) I'm not so sure about.
If I ask myself the (relevant) question... "Is Dominic Thiem as good as Robin Söderling?" I think the answer is probably yes. And then if I ask myself the question... "Is this 2017 Nadal better or worse than 2009 Nadal?" I think the answer is probably equal or worse.
Given those two answers, I have to conclude that Thiem actually does have a possibility of beating Nadal at Roland Garros this year. Keep in mind that Söderling had only won 3 titles at the time he took down Nadal, also. So Thiem is in a very similar position.
Personally, I don't think Thiem will beat Nadal at Roland Garros. I think even for Söderling to have done it... the chances were remote. But if it is going to happen... I think this is the time.
Of course, if Nadal is out of form then he is pretty much beatable by anyone at any tournament. But that situation doesn't really apply right now.
Didnt watch this
But the best gift from the win is
The mental edge to Thiem in their
Good to have this now before RG.
But come Halle you will care what Fed does, don't you?
Think this probably sets up well for Nadal. Going to get some extra rest before Roland Garros, I fully suspect him to torch everyone there once was are talking Bo5.
Nadal was a bit off, and Thiem was superagressive. Good win for Thiem, completely deserved.
I hope all those misses from Nadal on his FH were just a bad day. This shouldn't change expectatives for RG.
He isn't the defending champion though.
Just got back,,
Congrats to Thiem blnt Nadal, a round of drinks on Meles, make it two he is not cheap.
Did the draws come out already?
Nice day on both sides so far. Venus/Muguruza and Novak/Del Potro, don't disappoint.
You're correct about his match with Fed but against Rafa he won the first set and saved a MP in the decider.
I bet my house on Thiem repeating this.
website say May 21
Hmm, not really. Nadal had a kind of slow start, but it was mainly to Thiem GOATing out there and throwing him the sink. He was outplayed there big time until 5-1. Then Thiem relaxed a bit and Nadal upped his game, and the same was going on in the second set until Thiem broke Nadal's serve again and it was good night Nadal
This loss could actually prevent Rafa from grabbing the No. 2 seeding for Wimbledon, especially if Djoko wins today
There's no doubt that Thiem will dominate clay and other surfaces once the big 3 retires. I think Thiem will be Fed's replacement.
Hope he's the moral victor at RG too - and not the real one
Good post. I am also not so sure about the bolded part you quoted.
However, I am positive that: 1. Nadal at 2009 was WAY better than Nadal 2017. His speed is decreased since he has aged, and his reaction is not the same. I think that is clear as crystal
2. Thiem being as good as Soderling? That is a more debatable subject. Robin had a huge serve and a biggest forehand (man, I miss those players!). I would say Thiem is a slightly worse version of the Swede, but also Thiem is a natural player in clay. We may also add that Dominic has a RG SF to back up his confidence. Difficult to compare both players really
Anyway, Nadal is always injured when he loses so a good recovery for him before RG
The bet is on
Nothing(other than Fed winning Wimbledon) would please me more than if he did it Let's hope you're right.
I think that's also because Thiem tried to play inside the court. In Madrid and Barcelona he was well behind. But Rafa's shots did not have the same bite here so it made his job a little easier.
Told you not to get too hyped over Rafa, regardless of whether this was a tank or not. Best of 5 is very different as well. You'll likely see in the FO that Rafa is done. All it's gonna take is someone to step up.
Yeah, I don't really get into the reasons a player goes out of form. Every player has their reasons. Injuries, being a head-case, being out of shape, or just having a bad day. They all have their reasons and it usually isn't random. I just know "out of form" when I see it. In his career, I think most of Nadal's issues in being out-of-form stem from injuries and then from confidence issues when losing while coming back from injury.
But I don't think those reasons for being out-of-form are good, bad or otherwise. I don't assign a "moral value" to those reasons. To me, they are what they are.
I'd be happy with a lot of outcomes in this French Open. If Thiem won, that would be great. If Nadal won his 10th, that would be great. If Djokovic found his form after playing out of form for months, that would be great. I'm pretty satisfied with whatever outcome happens this year. I think this clay season has been really exciting for a lot of reasons.
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Hopefully you're right
I'm absolutely livid at the moment. Biggest tactical tank I've ever seen in my life. Hoped 3 tough opponents would get knocked out in early rounds, and when none did, made the decision to "knock" oneself out of the tournament. Absolute disgrace, I've most all respect I had for Nadal now. Out of all the players, who would've guessed that Nadal would use underhanded tactics to gain an advantage? I'm just lost for words.
And by the way, I have no doubt that Thiem is capable of beating Nadal, It's just the manner in which it happened that annoys me. It's like he didn't even want to disguise the fact he was tanking the match, as if he wanted us to know that he could win really. What a lunatic. I'm glad his dreams were crushed at AO now, by his rival that he supposedly overcame 9 years earlier. Let's hope Stanimal shows up and slaps Nadals ass at the French. Someone needs to teach this egotistical monster a lesson in humility and respect for your opponent. Shameful!!!
Thiem is much stronger mentally than Stan the Man, if their weapons are just equal Thiem will be >> than Stan.
For all the people saying Nadal looks tired, needs break before RG, has played so much. All the tenniscasters talk about is the grueling schedule that Thiem has and how he can't win a major because he is playing so much. Furthermore, for the last three weeks he has almost gone match for match with Rafa (often having to play more/harder to make it to the end match against Rafa because he has not been as dominate as Rafa has). If Nadal is tired, I would be very worried about a 2 week long, best of 5 with higher caliber of players coming...
*nods* I see.
I'll keep that in mind.
That's not all they talk about.
Maybe tune in to another channel if they're frustrating you.
From what I saw (most of first set), Nadal was playing below average (for him) tennis and Thiem was playing lights-out. Thiem came in with the right game plan and was not making many mistakes. A player like him can beat anyone on clay when he's in that zone (except for maybe a peak Nadal/Djokovic/Stan.)
I'm kind of glad Nadal got a loss out of his system before RG. Otherwise I worry that the hype and pressure of going into the French on a ridiculous streak might negatively effect his play. Nadal played well enough today to beat 99% of the field. Unfortunately he ran into one of the few 1% in Thiem and Thiem was on. Hats off to Thiem. I've always liked him. Glad to see he's finally getting to be a serious contender with the big guns.
I mean he won rg last year
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