Thiem was a nightmare for Djokovic

nolefam_2024

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Dominic Thiem is 6/7 years younger than Djokovic. When he was playing the pre 2017 Nole, he was a kid. Nole beat him handily.

But from 2017 to 2020 in 4 years, he went 5-3 vs Djokovic.

One of Nole's most humiliating loss came at expense of Thiem at RG in 2017.
He stopped Nole from fighting for another Nole slam in RG 2019.
He snatched Nole's hope of ending year at number 1 in 2019.
And he possibly robbed Nole from another YEC in 2020.

4 losses Nole suffered vs him had huge significance.

Is Thiem the 5th toughest opponent Nole faced after Rafa, Fed, Andy and Stan? Or do you rate Medvedev higher?

Will anyone from before big 4 like Andy Roddick be considered better rival than Thiem? And if not for injuries, did Thiem have Nole's number or it was just a few coincidences.
 
at Roland Garros, he was better than Nole during 2017-2019. Then Djokovic reached a higher level from 2020 onwards. I personally feel that 2021 Djokovic would beat any version of Thiem at RG.
Everywhere else, Nole would have dismembered his ambitions even during 2017-2019 had he faced Thiem in BO5.
 
Checkmate said:
at Roland Garros, he was better than Nole during 2017-2019. Then Djokovic reached a higher level from 2020 onwards. I personally feel that 2021 Djokovic would beat any version of Thiem at RG.
Everywhere else, Nole would have dismembered his ambitions even during 2017-2019 had he faced Thiem in BO5.
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How could he reach higher level despite getting old?
 
Checkmate said:
at Roland Garros, he was better than Nole during 2017-2019. Then Djokovic reached a higher level from 2020 onwards. I personally feel that 2021 Djokovic would beat any version of Thiem at RG.
Everywhere else, Nole would have dismembered his ambitions even during 2017-2019 had he faced Thiem in BO5.
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I feel the matchup was a good one for Thiem. He was faster than Rafa in those days and his one hander was not that attackable on clay. Nole did beat Tsitsipas twice during this time but tsitsipas backhand was not unattackable.
 
He was a player that could cause trouble but nightmare is a bit much.

2017 was against a crap Djokovic. 2019 was a very good win, the only defeat Djokovic had in 5 slams.

I would fear more an in-form Wawrinka than Thiem. Between Medvedev and Thiem it's close, yeah, depends on the surface and event.
 
BauerAlmeida said:
He was a player that could cause trouble but nightmare is a bit much.

2017 was against a crap Djokovic. 2019 was a very good win, the only defeat Djokovic had in 5 slams.

I would fear more an in-form Wawrinka than Thiem. Between Medvedev and Thiem it's close, yeah, depends on the surface and event.
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Not really, not in BO5 anyway. Med has always been powerless against an in form Djoker in slams, whereas Thiem was a real danger anywhere (obviously excluding grass) and almost beat him on his turf on RLA, which is a pretty big feat. But I do agree that Stan was a bigger threat, his peak was clearly higher than Thiem's.
 
Kralingen said:
Thiem has essentially 6 good Slam runs in his entire career lol. RG 17-19, USO 18/20, AO 20.

That’s it. And RG 17 is kind of questionable.
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You are right. I remember he had habit of not reaching second week even before his career took off. A lot of it was lack of mental strength which left winnable matches on the table.

So the question would be, was he really hampered by injuries or without injuries his career would be something similar to what Medvedev has? Medvedev has a few finals, and a slam. But he has a bunch of masters titles and ATP finals. Thiem had 1 masters in his entire career.

I think it's now established that masters and slams can't be co related so there is more chances of him having Wawrinka like career with a few peak wins.
 
What we can consider is Thiem was playing a weaker field in 2017-19 than today. He never played fed or even Nole outside of RG. Medvedev and Tsitsipas were still very raw. Tsitsipas was just 19. And Zverev who added depth to the game then was an absolute mug. So basically Thiem's peak coincided with some weak areas of tennis.

In 2023, tennis isn't much better as well. Especially in Roland Garros, the 2017-19 Thiem can get a win.
 
nachiket nolefam said:
What we can consider is Thiem was playing a weaker field in 2017-19 than today. He never played fed or even Nole outside of RG. Medvedev and Tsitsipas were still very raw. Tsitsipas was just 19. And Zverev who added depth to the game then was an absolute mug. So basically Thiem's peak coincided with some weak areas of tennis.

In 2023, tennis isn't much better as well. Especially in Roland Garros, the 2017-19 Thiem can get a win.
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While 2017-2019 wasn't a strong period, it was much stronger than anything we have since covid started. 2020-2023 is the asterisk era, with 2023 being a new low.
 
StrongRule said:
While 2017-2019 wasn't a strong period, it was much stronger than anything we have since covid started. 2020-2023 is the asterisk era, with 2023 being a new low.
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Yes. But in those days Federer played at high level in Wimbledon. But Thiem has no good results in Wimbledon anyway.
 
CoolCoolCool said:
Not really, not in BO5 anyway. Med has always been powerless against an in form Djoker in slams, whereas Thiem was a real danger anywhere (obviously excluding grass) and almost beat him on his turf on RLA, which is a pretty big feat. But I do agree that Stan was a bigger threat, his peak was clearly higher than Thiem's.
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Medvedev has a great win at USO 2021 and Thiem at RG 2019.

I don't think it was THAT close in AO 2020 for a five-setter, it was mostly because Djokovic had that fight with the umpire at the end of the second set and gifted a few games at the end of it and the beginning of the third that cost him two sets. Outside that period he seemed to be in control. I think he would have been in far more trouble if Medvedev converts the set point at the USO final this year even if one match was straight sets and one was a five-setter. Though of course, it's different beating Djokovic at the AO than the USO and Medvedev did very poorly at the AO in 2021.
 
BauerAlmeida said:
Medvedev has a great win at USO 2021 and Thiem at RG 2019.

I don't think it was THAT close in AO 2020 for a five-setter, it was mostly because Djokovic had that fight with the umpire at the end of the second set and gifted a few games at the end of it and the beginning of the third that cost him two sets. Outside that period he seemed to be in control. I think he would have been in far more trouble if Medvedev converts the set point at the USO final this year even if one match was straight sets and one was a five-setter. Though of course, it's different beating Djokovic at the AO than the USO and Medvedev did very poorly at the AO in 2021.
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Med's win was just a result of Djokovic being off. He's still yet to make a slam match against Djoker competitive when Djoker isn't terrible.
 
It’s pretty sad that Timmy was a bigger threat by himself than all of #NextGen combined vs the Big 3. And he wasn’t much of a threat either. Had it not been for Zedrot out choking him Timmy would be schlemless. The dude was just straight terribad in big matches. He was capable of peaking kind of high before a big F, but he essentially never delivered when it really mattered.
 
Thiem really should have won that 2020 aus open 5 setter final. 5-7 h2h vs novak including wins indoor at the atp finals. His peak level was greater than any of med, zverev etc. If he had continued in that form, he could have taken a few slams off an ageing novak.
 
sportsfan1 said:
Thiem really should have won that 2020 aus open 5 setter final. 5-7 h2h vs novak including wins indoor at the atp finals. His peak level was greater than any of med, zverev etc. If he had continued in that form, he could have taken a few slams off an ageing novak.
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That wasn't even his worst loss. USO 2017 and USO 2018 were far worse.
 
Andy Roddick was born with Federer and also before Djokodal, that put him in an awkward spot with no advantage.
Thiem had all the age advantage over Djokovic/Nadal and still ended up with a fluke win

Roddick > Thiem

Defeats in Grand Slam Matches at (QF/SF/F) to a player who went on to be the "Eventual Champion" that year in that slam.

[Stats Since 01 Jan 2000]

01. Andy Murray - 13 Times (4 Semi Finals & 8 Finals)
02. Andy Roddick - 10 Times (3 Semi Finals & 4 Finals)
03. Tomas Berdych - 10 Times (4 Semi Finals & 1 Final)
04. Kei Nishikori - 7 Times (2 Semi Finaks & 1 Final)
05. Marin Cilic - 6 Times (1 Semi Final & 2 Finals)
06. Lleyton Hewitt - 5 Times (2 Semi Final & 2 Finals)
07. Dominic Thiem - 5 Times (2 Semi Final & 3 Finals)
08. Juan Martin Del Potro - 5 Times (3 Semi Final & 1 Final)
09. Joe Wilfred Tsonga - 5 Times (3 Semi FInal & 1 Final)
10. Stan Wawrinka - 4 Times (2 Semi Final & 1 Final) [Also lost a close 4th round match to Novak once at the AO]

Murray and Roddick suffered the most at the hands of the Big 3, not that overrated Thiem....
 
mike danny said:
Thiem was never a nightmare. The guy was a terrible big match player.
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Bad in big finals: 1-3 in Major finals (0-1 against Djokovic). 0-2 in WTF finals.
Good in big SFs: 4-2 in Major SFs (1-1 against Djokovic). 2-0 in WTF SFs (1-0 against Djokovic).
Good in big QFs: 6-2 in Majors QFs (1-0 against Djokovic).

Definitely not someone Djokovic would have been thrilled to see in his half or the draw at Majors post-2020 had Dominic remained healthy.

As for Thiem's record in Major finals, facing Nadal in two French finals and Djokovic in an Australian Open final (that he lost in five sets) is as tough as it gets.
 
mike danny said:
Med's win was just a result of Djokovic being off. He's still yet to make a slam match against Djoker competitive when Djoker isn't terrible.
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Ironically, his first ever slam match with Djokovic was the only competitive slam match between them, back when Medvedev's game was not fully developed.
 
duaneeo said:
I mean it was 12 years after Nole won his first AO title.
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Djokovic was 32 and would have an 89.1% winning percentage in 2020.

Age 32 for Nadal was 2018-2019 when he won 3 Majors.

In other words, Nadal and Djokovic were still playing really well at age 32. 2020 Djokovic was still a very good version of him.
 
buscemi said:
Djokovic was 32 and would have an 89.1% winning percentage in 2020.

Age 32 for Nadal was 2018-2019 when he won 3 Majors.

In other words, Nadal and Djokovic were still playing really well at age 32. 2020 Djokovic was still a very good version of him.
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I wouldn’t worry or bother explaining. He’s a fanatic Federer fan who has a phobia against players winning slams in their 30s. You do the maths and you will see why.
 
Last edited:
Much like Peak Wawrinka, the way to beat Djokovic was to overwhelm him with power and shot depth. Thiem at his peak hit consistently harder off of both forehand and backhand than anybody on tour, it was a beauty to watch when he was on. If he had a little more mental strength, we'd be talking about a 3-4 time slam winner most likely.

It's too bad that injuries robbed him of some of his prime because he'd still be a threat today otherwise and make the tour more interesting than the general snoozefest we received in 2023. It's hard to believe that he's only 30 so maybe there's time for him to compete at the highest level again.
 
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