Things are hanging by a thread

Lew II

Legend
Make this a thread lol.
Not so much to talk about. Roddick himself has stated that he'd have no chance against peak Djokovic.

Tsonga has a similar level/game to Roddick's (Djokovic in his book mentions a couple of times Tsonga as one of the best players he ever faced along with Big4), and look at the h2h progression against Djokovic:

until 2010 --> 2-5
since 2011 --> 15-1
 

RS

Legend
Not so much to talk about.

Tsonga has a similar level/game to Roddick's and look at the h2h progression against Djokovic:

until 2010 --> 2-5
since 2011 --> 15-1

Djokovic in his book mentions a couple of times Tsonga as one of the best players he ever played along with Big4.
I mean the statement Roddick made in the tweet as a thread to see what people think.
 

blablavla

Legend
Not so much to talk about. Roddick himself has stated that he'd have no chance against peak Djokovic.

Tsonga has a similar level/game to Roddick's (Djokovic in his book mentions a couple of times Tsonga as one of the best players he ever played along with Big4), and look at the h2h progression against Djokovic:

until 2010 --> 2-5
since 2011 --> 15-1
did Tsonga ever:
reach #1 in ranking
win GS tournaments
 

socallefty

Hall of Fame
Or he could do like Federer, that drastically improved his H2H against Nadal, Murray, Berdych:

until 2013 --> 30-39 (43.5%)
since 2014 --> 20-2 (90.9%)

;)
Federer gets older and gets better against every other player not named Novak. Could it be that he needs his age excuse only against Novak. Why is it so hard for so many to just admit that Federer is not anywhere as good a player as Novak? Are they watching tennis with their eyes open for the past decade?

I guess it is as hard for Novak fans to admit that he has under-achieved in Slams and Olympic golds against a much more defensive, aesthetically awful player to watch like Nadal.

It is a travesty that the tennis gods (I don‘t really believe in them, but it is cool to think of a Valhalla inhabited by tennis gods) seem to have deemed that the GOAT title will likely reside with Nadal. Then again, goats are ugly animals and it makes sense with how life works that the Big 3 player with the ugly defensive style (cue returning from 20 feet behind the baseline) comes out on top. Life is not fair, is it?
 

Indigo

Semi-Pro
Novak is 34, a father of two, way past his peak which was 10 years ago in 2011. I simply don't understand why do people have to compare players with age difference of 15 years. It's just not reasonable, especially when the other player is almost at the end of his professional career. When these young players are 34, Novak will be over 50, grey hair, walking with a stick and his kids will be finishing college and having their own families. Novak can be father to these young contenders, yes, that's exactly how silly these comparisons and h2h are, plain silly.
 

Lew II

Legend
Federer gets older and gets better against every other player not named Novak. Could it be that he needs his age excuse only against Novak. Why is it so hard for so many to just admit that Federer is not anywhere as good a player as Novak? Are they watching tennis with their eyes open for the past decade?

I guess it is as hard for Novak fans to admit that he has under-achieved in Slams and Olympic golds against a much more defensive, aesthetically awful player to watch like Nadal.

it is a travesty that the tennis gods (I don‘t really believe in them, but it is cool to think of a Valhalla inhabited by tennis gods) seem to have deemed that the GOAT title will likely reside with Nadal. Then again, goats are ugly animals and it makes sense with how life works that the Big 3 player with the ugly defensive style (cue returning from 20 feet behind the baseline) comes out on top. Life is not fair, is it?
Federer in Slams since 2014 Wimbledon:

vs non-Djokovic top5 players --> 6-1
vs Djokovic --> 0-6

:whistle:
 

socallefty

Hall of Fame
Federer in Slams since 2014 Wimbledon:

vs non-Djokovic top5 players --> 6-1
vs Djokovic --> 0-6

:whistle:
Lew, I may not agree with your methods and stats, but ‘Sono d'accordo con te’. Novak is the BOAT and it is sad that he has had so many lulls in his career at Slams that a much less offensive player like Nadal will end up with a better claim to the GOAT title than he does. It would have been a less bitter pill for me to swallow if Fed had ended up as the GOAT as he has a much more aesthetically pleasing game, but he was always destined to be the ThirdWheelerer. It is sad that Novak did not have the patience to outlast Nadal with solid defense at Roland Garros in 2012-2014 and in contrast was too passive against Murray and Wawrinka in other Slam finals - not to mention his boneheadedness in 2H2016-2017 during the Pepe era and the 2020USO.

Nadal never lets his fans down as he usually plays to the ceiling of his limited defensive game compared to more talented offensive players like Federer and Djokovic who subject their fans to many more highs and lows.
 

blablavla

Legend
Federer in Slams since 2014 Wimbledon:

vs non-Djokovic top5 players --> 6-1
vs Djokovic --> 0-6

:whistle:
Becker vs Sampras 7-12, which actually started as a 3-1 till 1991
Becker vs Agassi 4-10, which actually starter as 3-0 til 1989
Becker vs Kafelnikov 4-2, and they first met in 1995
Becker vs M Chang 5-1, and they first met in 1991

so, you know, your argument is just proving that current crop of top 10 players isn't any better than the 90s, where players 6-8 younger were not able to handle Becker, while ATGs like Sampras and Agassi could easily defeat him again and again

which raises again the question, which younger ATGs Novak is facing?
Djere? Albot? Goffin? Krajinovic?
can you please help me with the list?
 

Crazy Finn

Professional
Not so much to talk about. Roddick himself has stated that he'd have no chance against peak Djokovic.
What no stats?

Oh right, the h2h is 5-4 Roddick. That would mean that Roddick > Djokovic by Lew logic, except most of it is before 2011, which doesn't exist.

Federer in Slams since 2014 Wimbledon:

vs non-Djokovic top5 players --> 6-1
vs Djokovic --> 0-6

:whistle:
So basically this says the Djokovic is much better than the rest of the top 5, since Federer is great against them and Lew's spent 50% of his posts convincing us that Fed isn't good. Thus - Weak Era.
 

nov

Semi-Pro
Lew, I may not agree with your methods and stats, but ‘Sono d'accordo con te’. Novak is the BOAT and it is sad that he has had so many lulls in his career at Slams that a much less offensive player like Nadal will end up with a better claim to the GOAT title than he does. It would have been a less bitter pill for me to swallow if Fed had ended up as the GOAT as he has a much more aesthetically pleasing game, but he was always destined to be the ThirdWheelerer. It is sad that Novak did not have the patience to outlast Nadal with solid defense at Roland Garros in 2012-2014 and in contrast was too passive against Murray and Wawrinka in other Slam finals - not to mention his boneheadedness in 2H2016-2017 during the Pepe era and the 2020USO.

Nadal never lets his fans down as he usually plays to the ceiling of his limited defensive game compared to more talented offensive players like Federer and Djokovic who subject their fans to many more highs and lows.
As a Djokovic fan i'd like if Djokovic ended up with most slams because he's the best player and it will be fair. But mostly life is not fair so if hes not gonna end with most slams i dont care if Nadal or Federer will end up as most slams winner. I like both of them even Nadal very defensive player, but he has his own style, playing physical game and spin the ball like crazy. All 3 players are different but nice to watch.
 

blablavla

Legend
Thiem already has edge and Tsitsipas is getting closer on clay.
Thiem? maybe

Tsitsipas?
If Novak didn't choke the 3rd set, the match would be done in 3.
So, no, Tsitsipas has a long way to go before he can say that he is close to challenge Novak on clay
 

pj80

Hall of Fame
you think so?

go check the highest ranking achieved by Roddick
go check what is his best result at GS
and go check his H2H with Novak

not bad for a "mug"?

now please publish the entire list of players younger than Djokodal that at least have:
- reached #1 in ranking before 24 years old
- won GS title. I'll be generous, no time limit here
they don't have the luxury that arod enjoyed when he reached those. He didn't have to contend with Fed 2.0, Nadal and Djoker...surely some of them would have done so if they had the same competition.
 

blablavla

Legend
they don't have the luxury that arod enjoyed when he reached those. He didn't have to contend with Fed 2.0, Nadal and Djoker...surely some of them would have done so if they had the same competition.
irrelevant.
he defeated whoever was on the other side of the net.
just like Djokovic and Nadal did
just like Fed did
just like Sampras and Becker did
just like Edberg did
and the list goes on and on and on
 

pj80

Hall of Fame
just wait till Berdych & Murray will enter their prime and the H2H will reverse immediately
according to some Nole fans, modern medicine allows players to become better with every year
these Nole fans don't say till when it lasts, but my own prediction is that this improvement cycle goes till approximately 67 years old
those two slowed down due to serious injury as well as (in Berdych case) lack of motivation...nothing to with age. They are still somewhat in their physical prime at 33
 

pj80

Hall of Fame
irrelevant.
he defeated whoever was on the other side of the net.
just like Djokovic and Nadal did
just like Fed did
just like Sampras and Becker did
just like Edberg did
and the list goes on and on and on
Yes, but don't you think they would have better chance vs Ferrero or Nalbandian then lets say the 3 greatest slam performers we've ever seen.
 

blablavla

Legend
those two slowed down due to serious injury as well as (in Berdych case) lack of motivation...nothing to with age. They are still somewhat in their physical prime at 33
ok dude

1. what's your best guess, what is causing injuries?
2. do you want to tell me that Nadal didn't have injuries? or Fed? or Novak?

Novak initially refused to do an elbow surgery, because it is so little known area, and if you look back you might find many claims that it was his "career ending" injury
Rafa. Well, I think he had too many injuries to even start the topic
Fed, remember when he skipped the rest of the season post Wimbledon? what do you think, he was on holidays? also, what's your best guess, why is he skipped 2020?

3. what is your best guess, why Safin, Hewitt and many others decided to quit?
and to round it up, what do you think is the underlying reason of injuries in a sport like tennis, where athletes are not punching each other like in MMA, and are not tackling each other like in basketball, hockey or soccer?
 

blablavla

Legend
Yes, but don't you think they would have better chance vs Ferrero or Nalbandian then lets say the 3 greatest slam performers we've ever seen.
I think that Ferrero wasn't ready to be #4 in the world.
I think he was a fierce competitor, determined to do whatever it takes to become #1.
And this part is missing in the generations that await the Big 3 to retire

P.S.
Big 3 won't voluntarily retire.
They will keep playing till they make it to the latest rounds of biggest tournaments and till they are inside top 5 ranking
 

Linelicker

Rookie
I have to say I'd love it if Djokovic ended with negative H2H against all of them, would shut up the age deniers nicely.
Should create a cognitiv dissonance, caught between "becoming better with age" and "best era ever" theories. In my view, tennis has seldom been weaker than 2016-2021. Any true young all time great would have swept this era (RG would probably still belong to Rafa). I think the unlycky ones were Murray and Wawrinka who got injured just when the opening came, and they were also playing their best tennis when the injuries stopped them.

Djokovic fans are obsessed with proving he is best. Kyrgios has positive H2H with Novak but that's because Novak was terrible. While Nadal and Federer are not allowed to be terrible.

Nadal will likely pass Federer in the race this year, and I am more curious about the Ultronians' desperate excuses than the Maestronians' tears.
 

DerekNoleFam1

Hall of Fame
Very wishful thinking by the OP.
It was still an 89% win rate in 2020.
Anything other than another multiple slam year in 2021 will be a big surprise.
 

daphne

Semi-Pro
Djokovic

vs Thiem 7-5
vs Medvedev 4-3
vs Zverev 4-2
vs Tsitsipas 4-2

You could see that 2021 will be very different as these players are getting stronger and Djokovic is getting weaker.

These 4 will most likely have a winning record against Djokovic by 2022.

Add players like Rublev, Sinner & Sonego and you can see why Djokovic seems very nervous these days.
It must be a biach thing being a biach.
 
Djokovic

vs Thiem 7-5
vs Medvedev 4-3
vs Zverev 4-2
vs Tsitsipas 4-2

You could see that 2021 will be very different as these players are getting stronger and Djokovic is getting weaker.

These 4 will most likely have a winning record against Djokovic by 2022.

Add players like Rublev, Sinner & Sonego and you can see why Djokovic seems very nervous these days.
lol what’s their record only including best of 5? I’ve come to accept that the big 3 will never be surpassed by any of the current crop. They will decline with age and injury to a point where eventually the other players can beat them, not because of the current crop of competitors raising their level. Even old and injured as they are now, they are still giants among mental midgets.
 

iopzzza

Rookie
Lets get this cleared out. Respect to the new guys, but the thing is they are not getting that better, just Djokovic and Nadal are getting too old and slowed down. That's the only reason they lose. If u dont believe me , watch the intensity of US OPEN finals or the AO final in 2012. That cant be matched by the young guys, no matter who good they become.
 
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