Think Racket Preparation.

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Here is a slow-motion video of several Federer service returns - forehand and backhand. See how far back the racket has been taken.

I *think* what @thomas daniels means is "racquet prep" involves the unit turn, not a separate motion of takeback. It's hard to tell because he doesn't explicitly state this. But it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

Furthermore, I think he then states that only worrying about racquet prep is fine for the rec player; no need for a huge takeback.

One could use a larger takeback but that takes time and maybe we don't have enough with a fast incoming ball.

How large a takeback the pros use might be irrelevant to TD's reasoning.

Then again, since I'm on his ignore list, I can't ask him.

 

[mcs1970]

The reason you don't feel the takeback is because you're unconsciously competent; it happens automatically without thought. Great if you have that skill. But it doesn't help someone who doesn't have the skill. In order to get to that level, you have to go through many reps where you are explicitly thinking about it until it becomes cemented firmly.

I *think* this is what @mcs1970 was driving at.

I have zero issues with Mr Daniels. Seems like he was a good player and now coaching overseas. Most of his advice seem to be pithy aphorisms talking about mental strength. In this case he is talking about actual tennis technique advice which is why I was interested.

ROS and volleys are two of the glaring weaknesses in my game. In other areas(Serve,fh, bh, fitness) I am pretty competent and can handle pace very well on both wings. I thought this thread could provide some new insights on helping my ROS which is why I was asking OP for video.

 

[mcs1970]

And he will never be. It is not easy to be suresh.

I cannot figuratively or literally fill your shoes. You are greatness.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

ROS and volleys are two of the glaring weaknesses in my game. In other areas(Serve,fh, bh, fitness) I am pretty competent and can handle pace very well on both wings.

Interesting point. I have the same RoS weakness but not so much the volley weakness. I frequently over-swing on my return although I'm not sure if that's due to an excessive takeback or just being too aggressive/optimistic. But I rarely overswing on a volley because I recognize that many volleys will not be putaways but setups for a potentially easier volley or OH.

 

[mcs1970]

Spadea's advice IS old school. Racket well back and extend through the ball. The Roddick serve-return reference was not relevant because he was talking about regular forehands most of the time.

I was also talking about regular FH when I talked about Wilander and how Wilander’s advice contradicts Spadea’s. The coaches I follow are Tom Avery, Brent Abel, and Lance Goodell . So I am a big proponent of old school strokes and style for most casual rec players.

 

[sureshs]

I was also talking about regular FH when I talked about Wilander and how Wilander’s advice contradicts Spadea’s. The coaches I follow are Tom Avery, Brent Abel, and Lance Goodell . So I am a big proponent of old school strokes and style for most casual rec players.

Do casual rec players have a new-school style? I don't think so. They usually do not possess old-school flat and reliable strokes, nor new-school heavy topspin strokes. They end up doing whatever they can.

 

[mcs1970]

Interesting point. I have the same RoS weakness but not so much the volley weakness. I frequently over-swing on my return although I'm not sure if that's due to an excessive takeback or just being too aggressive/optimistic. But I rarely overswing on a volley because I recognize that many volleys will not be putaways but setups for a potentially easier volley or OH.

I am fine in singles with ROS. but in doubles tend to worry too much about the net man and try to make the perfect shot, resulting in all sorts of errors. There was a thread here recently about this with a lot of good suggestions. Will try to test some of those whenever I get back on the court again post injury.

Volleys...I need to work on it much more.

 

[mcs1970]

Do casual rec players have a new-school style? I don't think so. They usually do not possess old-school flat and reliable strokes, nor new-school heavy topspin strokes. They end up doing whatever they can.

I think it is because they try new school strokes first they make errors or maybe I am generalizing based on my experiences.

I went from that to the other extreme of full conti on both wings, to then going more to an Aussie grip to get gentle but reliable topspin. If I can do it anyone can. As mentioned I started following videos of coaches who teach that style and have stuck to it.

 

[sureshs]

I think it is because they try new school strokes first they make errors or maybe I am generalizing based on my experiences.

I went from that to the other extreme of full conti on both wings, to then going more to an Aussie grip to get gentle but reliable topspin. If I can do it anyone can. As mentioned I started following videos of coaches who teach that style and have stuck to it.

Never heard of the Aussie grip. What is it? Only heard of conti, eastern, semi western, and western, maybe also Hawaiian.

 

[mcs1970]

Never heard of the Aussie grip. What is it? Only heard of conti, eastern, semi western, and western, maybe also Hawaiian.

JMac and Mandlikova used it. Between conti and Eastern and you can use it on both wings. I do slip to Eastern if I have time to setup for a passing shot.

Edit. Reading now some call conti as Aussie grip though I thought Aussie was modified conti. The latter is what Inam referring to.

 

[sureshs]

JMac and Mandlikova used it. Between conti and Eastern and you can use it on both wings. I do slip to Eastern if I have time to setup for a passing shot.

Edit. Reading now some call conti as Aussie grip though I thought Aussie was modified conti. The latter is what Inam referring to.

@Slowtwitcher I use a SW grip because I play against players with Nadal-like topspin

 

[user92626]

All he said was that when faced with fast balls (which seldom happens in rec tennis), have a short takeback and block the ball and send it back with the pace of the sender. People have said this about service returns and volleys for a long long time.

In rec play, the challenge is usually the opposite. It is about how to put away slow balls and hit to where the opponent isn't.

The other problem with OP is that it claims racket takeback is not racket preparation. A short takeback is ALSO a preparation, sometimes reflexive and sometimes acquired through experience with faster serves.

The reason you don't feel the takeback is because you're unconsciously competent; it happens automatically without thought. Great if you have that skill. But it doesn't help someone who doesn't have the skill. In order to get to that level, you have to go through many reps where you are explicitly thinking about it until it becomes cemented firmly.

I *think* this is what @mcs1970 was driving at.

Guys, look

It's fact that there's a huge gap btw written words in TT and performing tennis actions. It could be that a perfectly written instruction possibly leads to a completely crappy tennis action, and vice versa a poorly written phrase leads to an eventual break through tennis action.

With that in mind, I rather not go down the rabbit hole of nitpicking apart anything or scrutinizing anything, and my impression is that's what you guys are doing! Well, whatever, if that floats your boat.

Another thing, maybe my foundation is already there, and all Thomas did was trigger an idea that I long forgot.


I don't necessarily know precisely what he means by "... instead think racket prepartion first and always" but it's good enough for own take-away. Another coach in this place also wrote the phrase "protect your contact point at all cost" -- whatever he means exactly but it rings true with me.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Guys, look

It's fact that there's a huge gap btw written words in TT and performing tennis actions.

Which is why accuracy and definition of terms are so important to me.

With that in mind, I rather not go down the rabbit hole of nitpicking apart anything or scrutinizing anything, and my impression is that's what you guys are doing! Well, whatever, if that floats your boat.

You call it nitpicking and scrutinizing; I call it clarifying. We'll agree to disagree.

Another thing, maybe my foundation is already there, and all Thomas did was trigger an idea that I long forgot.

Which is what I wrote about "unconsciously competent".

I don't necessarily know precisely what he means by "... instead think racket prepartion first and always" but it's good enough for own take-away. Another coach in this place also wrote the phrase "protect your contact point at all cost" -- whatever he means exactly but it rings true with me.

You're satisfied with this uncertainty; I am not. Or, at the very least, I'm motivated to want to delve further.

 

[sureshs]

Another coach in this place also wrote the phrase "protect your contact point at all cost" -- whatever he means exactly but it rings true with me.

It is usually phrased as "defend your contact point." It means don't surrender and move back, but try to decide where you want to take the ball and stick to the decision. Usually it also means contact out in front, which is the preferred position.

 

[user92626]

It is usually phrased as "defend your contact point." It means don't surrender and move back, but try to decide where you want to take the ball and stick to the decision. Usually it also means contact out in front, which is the preferred position.

Ok. Good.

Keep adding, contributing with our own interpretations --whatever you think would help others.