Third best season ever for Djokovic?

[RF-18]

That's like saying any other top player would have taken advantage of Nadal's serve in 2011 final just because Ultron could.
Who do you really think would have stood a chance in the 3rd set the way Novak played? Set 4 Novak wouldn't have happened without Nadal winning the 3rd set, saving 3 break points in epic fashion. Novak gave up the fight in set 4.

I generally don't like this "he played poor" etc etc. I don't think Novak would have played poor if he played someone other than Nadal. It was Novaks own fault for not bringing it, while Nadal did in the clutch moments. That's all there is to it.

 

[NatF]

Novak was a complete mess in the 2013 USO final in sets 1 and 4. You saying he lost all fight after the 3rd set only rectifies my point. He showed better fight in the 2007 USO final after disappointing in the first 2 sets than he showed in the 2013 USO final.

A Novak who is playing well doesn't just doesn't give up the fight after a setback.

I already said Novak played well in sets 2 and 3, so Nadal did a tremendous job of snatching that 3rd set from the jaws of defeat. But Novak made Rafa's life much easier than it should have been by playing poorly in sets 1 and 4.

Just 2 good sets is not going to cut it against any great player, not just Nadal.

Even a year before Djokovic fought from two sets down against Murray in horrible conditions.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Federer also made many unforced errors when he played Nadal in Slam finals.

And they all ended in a fourth set breadstick on his preferred surface.

 

[mike danny]

Federer at Wimbledon is better than RAFA at the USO and Djokovic making 66 UEs in the 2013 USO final isn't a great performance.

Novak's performance in the 2013 USO final was close to Roddick's in the 2006 USO final. Those who disagree just look at the name instead of looking at the form.

Nadal is not a bad match-up for Novak on HC so no excuse for Novak to play as poorly as he did. Federer OTOH is a horrible match-up for Roddick so the 2006 final being as close as it was showed that Novak wasn't playing at a higher level than Roddick.

 

[Jonas78]

If we shall follow Fed-hater (Bullzillion/Ultronian) logic, Djokers highest level is 2018, it's just the field thats catching up.

 

[mike danny]

That's like saying any other top player would have taken advantage of Nadal's serve in 2011 final just because Ultron could.
Who do you really think would have stood a chance in the 3rd set the way Novak played? Set 4 Novak wouldn't have happened without Nadal winning the 3rd set, saving 3 break points in epic fashion. Novak gave up the fight in set 4.

Federer himself would have stood a fairly good chance against Nadal in the 2011 USO final.

 

[mike danny]

Federer also made many unforced errors when he played Nadal in Slam finals.

But did Federer just give up the fight in the 4th set on his preferred surfaces?

Nadal making Djokovic give up the fight is the silliest excuse I have ever heard. Federer was in deeper zhit in the 2008 Wimb final and he didn't give up the fight. AO 2009 too. Fed didn't give up the fight after Nadal snatched that 3rd set from him.

 

[NatF]

Federer also made many unforced errors when he played Nadal in Slam finals.

Indeed, shows that facing ATG's in finals isn't always what it's cracked up to be...

 

[mike danny]

I generally don't like this "he played poor" etc etc. I don't think Novak would have played poor if he played someone other than Nadal. It was Novaks own fault for not bringing it, while Nadal did in the clutch moments. That's all there is to it.

Except he did play poorly in big matches against players other than Nadal. Murray USO 2012 and Nishikori USO 2014 ring a bell?

It's not blasphemy to say that one ATG played poorly against another ATG. Just because one ATG lost to another ATG, it doesn't mean he played great.

Also what you used to say, like "Novak wouldn't have felt so disheartened if he had played someone other than Nadal" is not true. Nishikori USO 2014 and Murray USO 2012 also come to mind. Wawrinka FO 2015 as well.

 

[Steve0904]

His 3rd best season is 2016, but if you're looking at the best of his 1 slam seasons I think it's 2012.

 

[mike danny]

His 3rd best season is 2016, but if you're looking at the best of his 1 slam seasons I think it's 2012.

Djokovic's 2012 is a contender for best 1 slam season alongside Murray's 2016.

 

[RF-18]

Except he did play poorly in big matches against players other than Nadal. Murray USO 2012 and Nishikori USO 2014 ring a bell?

It's not blasphemy to say that one ATG played poorly against another ATG. Just because one ATG lost to another ATG, it doesn't mean he played great.

Also what you used to say, like "Novak wouldn't have felt so disheartened if he had played someone other than Nadal" is not true. Nishikori USO 2014 and Murray USO 2012 also come to mind. Wawrinka FO 2015 as well.

That is true, you can still play poorly against lesser opponents and lose as you show but it doesn't change much. He lost and played bad when he had to bring it, and that is something only he can fault himself for. The general point though was 13 being Djokovic 3rd best season, and I agree with you that it wasn't.

Regarding Wawrinka FO 15 final, I don't think Novak played poor. He played pretty fine IMO and if he adjusted his approach result could have been different but Wawrinka truly peaked that match while Novak wasn't at his best tactically. The match went 4 sets, but really all it came down to was a few key points here and there, and Wawrinka made some of the luckiest shots I've seen on a tennis court

 

[mike danny]

That is true, you can still play poorly against lesser opponents and lose as you show but it doesn't change much. He lost and played bad when he had to bring it, and that is something only he can fault himself for. The general point though was 13 being Djokovic 3rd best season, and I agree with you that it wasn't.

Regarding Wawrinka FO 15 final, I don't think Novak played poor. He played pretty fine IMO and if he adjusted his approach result could have been different but Wawrinka truly peaked that match while Novak wasn't at his best tactically. The match went 4 sets, but really all it came down to was a few key points here and there, and Wawrinka made some of the luckiest shots I've seen on a tennis court

Novak simply allowed Wawrinka in the FO final to take the initiative. That's poor play on his part. Allowing a big hitter to take the initiative is tactical error 101.

Playing poorly doesn't just mean making errors, it also means playing the wrong strategy, which Novak did against Stan in the FO final IMO.

 

[RF-18]

Novak simply allowed Wawrinka in the FO final to take the initiative. That's poor play on his part. Allowing a big hitter to take the initiative is tactical error 101.

Playing poorly doesn't just mean making errors, it also means playing the wrong strategy, which Novak did against Stan in the FO final IMO.

With Wawrinkas weapons and big hitting of course Novak will be put on the defensive alot, but at the same time Novak was trying to be aggressive aswell and move him around, and he did but Wawrinka wouldn't give in. He was very resilient, and at the same time made world class winners that he had to do in order beat him.

All sets were VERY close, as I said few key points decided everything. If they play that match over again 5 times, Novak would win 4 of them. That day was just the day the stars aligned for Wawrinka.

 

[Zhilady]

Wawrinka made some of the luckiest shots I've seen on a tennis court

Luckier than the Djokovic return on match point at the 2011 US Open?

 

[RF-18]

Luckier than the Djokovic return on match point at the 2011 US Open?

That was a brilliant shot perfect illustration of Djokovics return prowess.

 

[Zhilady]

That was a brilliant shot perfect illustration of Djokovics return prowess.

And 2015 was a perfect illustration of Wawrinka’s dominance over Djokovic in Grand Slam finals. No luck involved.

 

[RF-18]

And 2015 was a perfect illustration of Wawrinka’s dominance over Djokovic in Grand Slam finals. No luck involved.

12 > 3
5 > 0
30 > 1
223 > 0
4 > 0
19 > 5

 

[Deleted member 757377]

That was a brilliant shot perfect illustration of Djokovics return prowess.

And what followed showed Federer's mental weakness.

No excuse there.

 

[Zhilady]

12 > 3
5 > 0
30 > 1
223 > 0
4 > 0
19 > 5

Djokovic >>> Wawrinka, obviously. But if Wawrinka was hitting lucky shots in the 2015 FO final, so was Djokovic in the 2011 USO semifinal. Can’t have it both ways, kid.

 

[RF-18]

Djokovic >>> Wawrinka, obviously. But if Wawrinka was hitting lucky shots in the 2015 FO final, so was Djokovic in the 2011 USO semifinal. Can’t have it both ways, kid.

Haha come on @Zhilady , you are a smart person, I'm just having a bit of a laugh

 

[Zhilady]

And what followed showed Federer's mental weakness.

And what did this show?

 

[Shaolin]

More importantly, what is the 6th best season ever for Federer, excluding odd number years and years he defeated Santoro?

 

[Deleted member 757377]

And what did this show?

I find no excuses for that match. Did you ever read from me Nadal was lucky?

I read all the time Djokovic at the 2011 US Open was lucky, instead.

 

[Zhilady]

I find no excuses for that match. Did you ever read from me Nadal was lucky?

Did I ever say that you said Nadal was lucky? I was asking you what that showed you about Djokovic. Waiting with bated breath for your evaluation.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

I disagree with @RF-18, Wawrinka-Djokovic in hc/clay slam finals can end both ways. The fact is Djokovic already had won that tournament in some ways, beating Nadal and Murray. It was a nightmarish path.

 

[Deleted member 757377]

Did I ever say that you said Nadal was lucky? I was asking you what that showed you about Djokovic. Waiting with bated breath for your evaluation.

A mental/physical weakness in that match, as it was shown in the US 11 semifinal by Federer.

 

[JoelSandwich]

Overall I’d prob go with 2012 but I’d surely put 2008 above 2016
Think they’re similar years 2008 just faced better competition

Comparing to 2016
AO: 2008 wins in 4/5
FO: 2016 but Djokovic played a good match vs the best version of Nadal ever so it’s tough to say
WIMB: Both versions sucked but 2008 at least lost to Safin (even though he hates grass)
USO: Losing to prime Federer at the USO in four sets with two close sets is better than losing to a decent Wawrinka in four sets
WTF: 2008 clearly

The masters Djokovic was pretty good the first half in 2008 and 2016
Djokovic has the one in Montreal in 2016 vs a meh draw but Djokovic was also solid at Cincinnati in 2008 vs clearly better competition
Probably go with 2016 overall for the masters though