This is my Hardcourt Greatest List from 1 to 4.

REKX

Rookie
So from number 1 (greatest) to number 4.

1. Roger Federer

2. Novak Djokovic

3. Rafael Nadal

4. Peter Sampras

Explanation:

For me Roger Federer's prime form on hard and grass is beyond anything we have ever seen. If you have watched Federer in real life, his forehand is something different than any other player in history. It's like a weapon, the way it travels, the spin (just a bit below Nadal's RPM). When he goes for winners from both forehand and backhand, it is again something we have never seen, the accuracy and execution.

Djokovic is an amazing hard court player, always was. The greatest return of serve of all time. Athleticism and flexibility, sliding, like we have never ever seen before. He was a great player when he was young, competing with Federer, and even beat Federer in the Australian Grand Slam. And recently he has become a such a force, I think not quite as dominant as Federer but close second.

Nadal for me is third. Nadal was a clay court specialist and changed his game to become competitive on hard courts. Nadal probably had the greatest competition of all time. Prime Federer and Prime Djokovic which is something that he had to deal with. He has beaten them both in hard courts, in grand slams which shows his hard court pedigree. Injury of course prevented him from getting another 2 or 3 hard court grand slams, but that is the nature of his explosive technique.

Sampras was a very good player. I didn't see much of him as he was before my time as I was growing up. But from what I have seen, he has a very good serve and volley game but also played a lot from the baseline. I think Sampras baseline game compared to the three above is way way way behind. Sampras had very little competition during his years, no other player was domination, and his rivals like Agassi would frequently go outside of the top 100 - no competition. With the utmost respect, I feel as though Sampras would have got eaten alive from the baseline by any of Federer, Nadal or Djokovic. Also Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are all amazing at passing shots, but Nadal more so - and we have seen serve and volley is not an ideal way to play against the big three.

What do you think?
 

REKX

Rookie
I am looking at the list and will act that this is a game find an intruder. The answer is 3.
No this is not the case.

Nadal had stiff hard court competition and still managed to beat them. Sampras, what competition did he have?
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
You know I came into this thread hoping to be impressed that somehow Wimbledon 2008 was going to be mentioned in a thread that is actually about ranking HC GOATs. A bit disappointed...

But I found this gem....

Nadal probably had the greatest competition of all time.

Federer and Djokovic have played each other 10 times in HC slams, an incredible six times at USO. Nadal has four meetings with each, and no meetings with Federer at USO. Explain to me, how the top two GOATs in your list, having faced each other 10 times, didn't have the greatest competition?
 

TheFifthSet

Legend
No this is not the case.

Nadal had stiff hard court competition and still managed to beat them. Sampras, what competition did he have?
Except...he didn't beat them very often. See here:

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/a-h2h-perhaps-more-damning-than-14-23.595284/

Nadal is 8-20 in HC finals against top 10 players (3-7 excluding Federer and Djokovic, in case you think that skews things), 63-63 overall against the top 10, and has only won 18 hard court titles (18-25 in all HC finals).

The idea that Nadal has beaten the best on HC with any regularity is unfounded. He isn't in the same universe as Sampras on HC.
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
No this is not the case.

Nadal had stiff hard court competition and still managed to beat them. Sampras, what competition did he have?
What competition did Sampras have?

In his losing effort in USO 2001, he faced a tougher draw than any that Nadal had, when Nadal actually won the title. Sampras beat not one, not two, but three USO champions back to back to back, two of them were multiple time USO champs, the third was the defending champion, just to get to the final, where he lost to the player who he beat the year before, and who was about to end the year world number one.
 

captainbryce

Hall of Fame
No this is not the case.

Nadal had stiff hard court competition and still managed to beat them. Sampras, what competition did he have?
Nadal has a losing record to both Djokovic (18-7) and Federer (11-9) on hardcourts. Nadal didn’t dominate any of his rivals on that surface (unless you consider Andy Murray his rival). By comparison, Sampras hardcourt record over his primary rival Agassi was also 11-9.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
You know I came into this thread hoping to be impressed that somehow Wimbledon 2008 was going to be mentioned in a thread that is actually about ranking HC GOATs. A bit disappointed...

But I found this gem....

Nadal probably had the greatest competition of all time.

Federer and Djokovic have played each other 10 times in HC slams, an incredible six times at USO. Nadal has four meetings with each, and no meetings with Federer at USO. Explain to me, how the top two GOATs in your list, having faced each other 10 times, didn't have the greatest competition?
Except...he didn't beat them very often. See here:

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/a-h2h-perhaps-more-damning-than-14-23.595284/

Nadal is 8-20 in HC finals against Top 10 players, 63-63 overall, and has only won 18 hard court titles (18-25 in all HC finals).

The idea that Nadal has beaten the best on HC with any regularity is unfounded. He isn't in the same universe as Sampras on HC.
End thread. Perfect posts.
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
Pete has more USOs and AOs than Nadal, and not to even mention his other hardcourt achievements. No way is Nadal ranked above him and he is not even above Agassi. The list should be:

1. Federer
2. Djokovic
3. Sampras
4. Agassi
5. Lendl
6. McEnroe
7. Nadal
 
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TheFifthSet

Legend
As for my list

1. Federer
2. Djokovic
3. Sampras
4. Lendl (AO was grass until '88)
5. Agassi
6. McEnroe
7. Connors

and then

8. Nadal

Mind you, after 7 there's a big drop-off. Also, if HC's were a little older then many pre-open era players would rank higher than Rafa too. It's essentially a ranking of the top HC players of the past 30-35 years.
 
As for my list

1. Federer
2. Djokovic
3. Sampras
4. Lendl (AO was grass until '88)
5. Agassi
6. McEnroe
7. Connors

and then

8. Nadal

Mind you, after 7 there's a big drop-off. Also, if HC's were a little older then many pre-open era players would rank higher than Rafa too. It's essentially a ranking of the top HC players of the past 30-35 years.
Fine list. Connors only has 3 HC slams to Nadal's 4, but then the USO (his favourite slam) was not played on hard courts until 1978.

Nadal at the USO is kind of like Djokovic at W: yes, he's a 3-time champion there, but he's certainly the weakest man in the Open Era on that surface to have won 3 titles, and some 2-time champs are arguably greater (Agassi, Djokovic at the USO vs. Nadal; Connors, Edberg at W vs. Djokovic)
 

ibbi

Legend
Look, Nadal is one of the greatest competitors of all time, and only an idiot can deny that. The things that he has been able to accomplish are seriously remarkable all things considered, but 3rd all time? I know the history of hard court tennis is much relatively shorter than grass and clay, but damn. His ability to step up on the biggest stage, on the biggest days, and beat his greatest rivals is what makes him an all time great, but specifically on the surface? He hasn't even won... 4 of the biggest hard court tournaments on the calendar. You're going to be in the picture for all time greatest I'd say you'd need to be a little bit closer than that. A little more consistent day in and day out.
 

Fedforever

Hall of Fame
You know I came into this thread hoping to be impressed that somehow Wimbledon 2008 was going to be mentioned in a thread that is actually about ranking HC GOATs. A bit disappointed...
You didn't give it enough time!! Now it won't happen :(
 

ZiggyStardust

Professional
Pete has more USOs and AOs than Nadal, and not to even mention his other hardcourt achievements. No way is Nadal ranked above him and he is not even above Agassi. The list should be:

1. Federer
2. Djokovic
3. Sampras
4. Agassi
5. Lendl
6. Nadal
I feel like McEnroe is certainly above Nadal on hardcourts. By level of play, so are Connors, Edberg, and Becker by my reckoning.
 
I am sorry, I am looking for instant gratification...just don't have enough time to be patient nowadays. ;)
I’ve heard that producers of the program have taken that into consideration with their investment in Reverse-DVR™ technologies. AO’s still nearly two months off. Why wait? In fact, I would’ve told you all the result last week if a forum had been created for such things. ;)
 

NoleFam

G.O.A.T.
I feel like McEnroe is certainly above Nadal on hardcourts. By level of play, so are Connors, Edberg, and Becker by my reckoning.
Now that I think about it, McEnroe is above Nadal on hard court since all 4 of his USO titles came on hardcourt against tougher fields. I'm only going by achievements and not level of play so I wouldn't rate Connors over Nadal since 2 of his USO titles came on grass and clay, and I wouldn't rate Becker or Edberg over him either. Even though they probably all had a higher level on the surface than him, he did achieve more.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
I’ve heard that producers of the program have taken that into consideration with their investment in Reverse-DVR™ technologies. AO’s still nearly two months off. Why wait? In fact, I would’ve told you all the result last week if a forum had been created for such things. ;)
It would have been nice to know winner of AO, so I can move onto IW...
 

Chanwan

G.O.A.T.
No this is not the case.

Nadal had stiff hard court competition and still managed to beat them. Sampras, what competition did he have?
I've read 5 posts or so from you and that's 4 more than I should have. On ignore you go. Trolls should be fun.
 

Backspin1183

G.O.A.T.
So from number 1 (greatest) to number 4.

1. Roger Federer

2. Novak Djokovic

3. Rafael Nadal

4. Peter Sampras

Explanation:

For me Roger Federer's prime form on hard and grass is beyond anything we have ever seen. If you have watched Federer in real life, his forehand is something different than any other player in history. It's like a weapon, the way it travels, the spin (just a bit below Nadal's RPM). When he goes for winners from both forehand and backhand, it is again something we have never seen, the accuracy and execution.

Djokovic is an amazing hard court player, always was. The greatest return of serve of all time. Athleticism and flexibility, sliding, like we have never ever seen before. He was a great player when he was young, competing with Federer, and even beat Federer in the Australian Grand Slam. And recently he has become a such a force, I think not quite as dominant as Federer but close second.

Nadal for me is third. Nadal was a clay court specialist and changed his game to become competitive on hard courts. Nadal probably had the greatest competition of all time. Prime Federer and Prime Djokovic which is something that he had to deal with. He has beaten them both in hard courts, in grand slams which shows his hard court pedigree. Injury of course prevented him from getting another 2 or 3 hard court grand slams, but that is the nature of his explosive technique.

Sampras was a very good player. I didn't see much of him as he was before my time as I was growing up. But from what I have seen, he has a very good serve and volley game but also played a lot from the baseline. I think Sampras baseline game compared to the three above is way way way behind. Sampras had very little competition during his years, no other player was domination, and his rivals like Agassi would frequently go outside of the top 100 - no competition. With the utmost respect, I feel as though Sampras would have got eaten alive from the baseline by any of Federer, Nadal or Djokovic. Also Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are all amazing at passing shots, but Nadal more so - and we have seen serve and volley is not an ideal way to play against the big three.

What do you think?
Stop it! Nadal is not a top 5 hard court player at all. Results speak.
 

ZiggyStardust

Professional
Now that I think about it, McEnroe is above Nadal on hard court since all 4 of his USO titles came on hardcourt against tougher fields. I'm only going by achievements and not level of play so I wouldn't rate Connors over Nadal since 2 of his USO titles came on grass and clay, and I wouldn't rate Becker or Edberg over him either. Even though they probably all had a higher level on the surface than him, he did achieve more.
Fair. However, I would point out that Connors still has 3 USOs on hard. It's not like he had the opportunity to win the AO on hard. Plus Connors was a lot better at non-slam HC events.
Regarding Becker/Edberg your point is well taken, as I mentioned in my post, I was going purely by level of play.
 

Mugu

Rookie
Sampras was a very good player. I didn't see much of him as he was before my time as I was growing up. But from what I have seen, he has a very good serve and volley game but also played a lot from the baseline. I think Sampras baseline game compared to the three above is way way way behind. Sampras had very little competition during his years, no other player was domination, and his rivals like Agassi would frequently go outside of the top 100 - no competition. With the utmost respect, I feel as though Sampras would have got eaten alive from the baseline by any of Federer, Nadal or Djokovic. Also Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are all amazing at passing shots, but Nadal more so - and we have seen serve and volley is not an ideal way to play against the big three.

What do you think?
no one calls him Peter... ;) and i think you are selling Mr. Sampras short in every way. in his prime, i don't think he would have nearly as much trouble
with any of those guys from the baseline (or anywhere else on the court).
 
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