"This is nuts": Martina Navratilova lambasts WADA for appealing Sinner’s ‘no negligence’

[Rovesciarete]

"This is a nuts. WADA is a disaster. Chinese swimmers are sitting quietly and now this? What a bad system we have."

Martina slams the decision of WADA to appeal the ‘no negligence’ part of ITIA’s ruling based on expert opinion. Contrary to the (ex-)players of Nasty&Company she shows an understanding of the issue, indicating a careful reading of the evidence. Contrast that to the intellectual depth of a former drug-abuser which is convinced that non-humans build the pyramids.

The concern about the contamination risk for players shows awareness of the scientific literature. Even WADA itself has admitted this can result in unjustified doping charges and has initiated a working group to understand the issue better.

 

[travlerajm]

I think Martina is the female GOAT.

But no top tennis player in history had such an extreme mid-career body composition makeover as she did.

All this statement by her does is bring attention and suspicion onto her own career achievements.

She obviously relates to Sinner, but she would have been better off staying silent.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Sinner and now Swiatek have truly destroyed tennis's image. It is tearing this sport apart, nobody can take any of the agencies seriously whether ITIA or WADA.

ITIA butchered Halep, they let Sinner and Swiatek off easy as a result. WADA are horrified at how weak they were on Sinner so they want to appeal.

These two players - particularly Sinner (who only sacked the trainer who used the doping cream after it became public knowledge several months later) have ruined the sport.

Tennis is entering the doping cycling era. 2025 Aus Open is going to have the biggest cloud over it if these two are allowed to play. Hopefully Alcaraz and Sabalenka can save this sport.

 

[travlerajm]

 

[Rovesciarete]

Nice pictures you got there. Do you have anything to back up your claim or you just love to slander?

 

[travlerajm]

The WTA didn’t start drug testing until 1993.

Martina didn’t win many slams after that.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

What's this meant to prove? She got better conditioning and muscles?

That first photo was when she about 19, the second was when she was 28.

I know the changes I went through between those years, same goes for many other men and women in my life. Ludicrous for you to even suggest something untoward given no accusations about Navratilova. Should I just start throwing some out there about other great players? Post a pic of Sampras from when he was young to the back end of his 20s? Same for Graf? Hell, wait til I show you Monica Seles from her first slam to her last! Big difference.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

The WTA didn’t start drug testing until 1993.

Martina didn’t win many slams after that.

Oh cool so we just want to accuse anyone before 1993 then? Can I volunteer Margaret Court?

Steffi Graf might have some questions from 1988 and 1989 too. Billie Jean King might be in trouble too with your line of reasoning.

This is utterly ludicrous by you. Seriously.

 

[Watching]

Oh cool so we just want to accuse anyone before 1993 then? Can I volunteer Margaret Court?

Steffi Graf might have some questions from 1988 and 1989 too. Billie Jean King might be in trouble too with your line of reasoning.

This is utterly ludicrous by you. Seriously.

don't get me started on Laver!

 

[travlerajm]

I’m saying that Navratilova made an unforced error in coming out with this statement, given that she knows many people already suspected her to be a steroid user (she threatened to sue a social media user last year, which was also not the smartest move as it shined the spotlight on her).

 

[weakera]

Sinner and now Swiatek have truly destroyed tennis's image. It is tearing this sport apart, nobody can take any of the agencies seriously whether ITIA or WADA.

ITIA butchered Halep, they let Sinner and Swiatek off easy as a result. WADA are horrified at how weak they were on Sinner so they want to appeal.

These two players - particularly Sinner (who only sacked the trainer who used the doping cream after it became public knowledge several months later) have ruined the sport.

Tennis is entering the doping cycling era. 2025 Aus Open is going to have the biggest cloud over it if these two are allowed to play. Hopefully Alcaraz and Sabalenka can save this sport.

I agree with you at face value, and I think it directly calls into question whether the prior era was clean. I just don't believe Jannik and Iga are the first offenders, I would think the doping has been rampant for some time at the top.

With that being said, being honest, it seems like the ATP/WTA have it pretty under control from a PR perspective and that it isn't making huge waves, and that most casuals view these incidents as minor, outliers, not serious offenses, etc. Do you disagree?

 

[Aussie Darcy]

I agree with you at face value, and I think it directly calls into question whether the prior era was clean. I just don't believe Jannik and Iga are the first offenders, I would think the doping has been rampant for some time at the top.

With that being said, being honest, it seems like the ATP/WTA have it pretty under control from a PR perspective and that it isn't making huge waves, and that most casuals view these incidents as minor, outliers, not serious offenses, etc. Do you disagree?

I honestly don't know and I don't get it.

It doesn't make sense to me that we went so long without a high profile player having a doping scandal. But to have not one but two #1 players in the world test positive to doping in the same year? One in the ATP and one in the WTA? Makes 0 sense.

And as I said last night, of all the players on tour, not Ruud, not Jabeur, not Paul, not Kasatkina, not Shelton, not Navarro, not Fritz, not Moore, not De Minaur, not Collins, not Tomljanovic, not Dimitrov, not Cornet etc etc etc. Just happens to be the two players who were ranked #1 most of this year claiming to have accidentally used a steroid and the other with a tampered drug?

Nobody else in the top 30 encounters this? Just the two #1's? It's become a joke of a sport.

All I can say is, I feel for Halep.

 

[weakera]

I honestly don't know and I don't get it.

It doesn't make sense to me that we went so long without a high profile player having a doping scandal. But to have not one but two #1 players in the world test positive to doping in the same year? One in the ATP and one in the WTA? Makes 0 sense.

And as I said last night, of all the players on tour, not Ruud, not Jabeur, not Paul, not Kasatkina, not Shelton, not Navarro, not Fritz, not Moore, not De Minaur, not Collins, not Tomljanovic, not Dimitrov, not Cornet etc etc etc. Just happens to be the two players who were ranked #1 most of this year claiming to have accidentally used a steroid and the other with a tampered drug?

Nobody else in the top 30 encounters this? Just the two #1's? It's become a joke of a sport.

All I can say is, I feel for Halep.

I agree with you but my position is now that virtually all top players have been doping in some capacity. Similar to MLB in the 1990's or Cycling in the 2000's. Two #1's going down this year is way, way too much smoke to not be connected to a massive fire.

 

[Gizo]

Navratilova's great rival Evert, did talk about how she thought that several of her peers during her playing days were taking performance enhancing drugs, but were getting away with it as there was no drugs testing at the time. Drugs testing was only brought in from the late 80s during the home stretch of Evert's career, and in her final year on tour in 1989 when that was in place, she talked about how it was sorely needed and how she was worried about steroids becoming more common-place in the sport and specifically women's tennis.

Courier said a few times in the late 90s that he thought blood doping was rife in the sport (as it was in cycling, cross country skiing etc.), and that it was the only way for players to handle the long, gruelling tennis season.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

I agree with you but my position is now that virtually all top players have been doping in some capacity. Similar to MLB in the 1990's or Cycling in the 2000's. Two #1's going down this year is way, way too much smoke to not be connected to a massive fire.

I'm sad to admit that i'm starting to wonder this too. This is why I keep saying that Swiatek and especially Sinner have ruined tennis this year. I never thought it was just a free for all for doping but I can't explain this anymore. It seems to be cycling all over again.

 

[weakera]

I'm sad to admit that i'm starting to wonder this too. This is why I keep saying that Swiatek and especially Sinner have ruined tennis this year. I never thought it was just a free for all for doping but I can't explain this anymore. It seems to be cycling all over again.

But the thing is I don't sense that in the mainstream, tennis is facing a scandal the size of which you described. Seems they are successfully sweeping it under the rug for now.

 

[Watching]

I'm sad to admit that i'm starting to wonder this too. This is why I keep saying that Swiatek and especially Sinner have ruined tennis this year. I never thought it was just a free for all for doping but I can't explain this anymore. It seems to be cycling all over again.

Sooo.. you're saying everyone has been doing it and Sinner and Swiatek ruined the sport... by getting caught?

 

[Bartelby]

Navratilova does not get the idea that appeals are an important czech.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Sooo.. you're saying everyone has been doing it and Sinner and Swiatek ruined the sport... by getting caught?

I'm saying i'm starting to question it as a result of these two.

What do you think happened?

Everyones been doing it but SOMEHOW the #1 ATP & WTA player get caught within 7 months of eachother yet no other top 30 player has had this happen since Halep?

Or:

Nobody is doing it and by some rare one in 100 billion chance BOTH the #1 ATP & WTA #1 players get caught testing positive to doping within 7 months but everyone else is in the clear?

Which one? Cause I can't tell you but i'm starting to question it. And I had never done it, until Sinner and now Swiatek got caught.

 

[Winner Sinner]

 

[Rovesciarete]

Sooo.. you're saying everyone has been doing it and Sinner and Swiatek ruined the sport... by getting caught?

Getting contaminated ruins the sport while supposed doping offence in the past don’t - impressive logic….

 

[Spencer Gore]

The suggestion that an Eastern Bloc female tennis player was doping during an era when Eastern Bloc female athletes were dominating the Olympics due to mass doping is outrageous.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Getting contaminated ruins the sport while supposed doping offence in the past don’t - impressive logic….

So what do you believe? That not just one but TWO Number 1 players in the world happen to have contamination accidents within 7 months of each other? Gee that is some one in one billion luck.

Nobody else in the top 30 on either tour goes through this for quite a long time. But both #1's happen to have it happen this year?

So Sinner was reckless and his trainer made a boo boo with steroid cream and couldn't read the drug? And Swiatek liked sleeping pills that happened to be contaminated?

But Kasatkina, Collins, Hurkacz, Badosa, Ruvlev, Tomljanovic, Fritz, Ruud, Navarro, Pegula, Shelton, Moore, De Minaur, Tsitsipas, Kalinskaya, Fils, Khachanov, Kostyuk, Ruud, Svitolina, Borges, Boulter, Martinez, Struff, Fernandez are all fine? (list can go on and on btw).

 

[Rovesciarete]

“I can’t understand how smart people with lots of resources were able to build something impressive, thus it must non-humans be.” fits perfectly with a mouth shouting “I can’t understand how anti-doping tests and the science behind it work, thus cheats they are”. A personal attempt to figure out his thought process…

 

[Watching]

I'm saying i'm starting to question it as a result of these two.

What do you think happened?

Everyones been doing it but SOMEHOW the #1 ATP & WTA player get caught within 7 months of eachother yet no other top 30 player has had this happen since Halep?

Or:

Nobody is doing it and by some rare one in 100 billion chance BOTH the #1 ATP & WTA #1 players get caught testing positive to doping within 7 months but everyone else is in the clear?

Which one? Cause I can't tell you but i'm starting to question it. And I had never done it, until Sinner and now Swiatek got caught.

I believe if the testing methods available today had been used in the (not so far) past we would have had much more positive results than today.

We're far from the age of recreational steroids use (this is how I call the Iron curtain sport era)

 

[reaper]

It must be said that Sinner's form hasn't exactly gone into free-fall since competing without the benefit of the one billionth of a gram of clostebol in his system.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

I believe if the testing methods available today had been used in the (not so far) past we would have had much more positive results than today.

We're far from the age of recreational steroids use (this is how I call the Iron curtain sport era)

And it's only the top female player in the world and top male player in the world who've had this contamination drama this year within 7 months of eachother?

Not Kasatkina, not Collins, not Hurkacz, not Badosa, not Rublev, not Tomljanovic, not Fritz, not Ruud, not Navarro, not Pegula, not Shelton, not Moore, not De Minaur, not Tsitsipas, not Kalinskaya, not Fils, not Khachanov, not Kostyuk, not Ruud, not Svitolina, not Borges, not Boulter, not Martinez, not Struff, not Fernandez?

Isn't that funny? Isn't that weird?

Isn't that the weirdest coincidence?

 

[Aussie Darcy]

“I can’t understand how smart people with lots of resources were able to build something impressive, thus it must non-humans.” fits perfectly with a mouth shouting “I can’t understand how anti-doping tests and the science behind it work, thus they are cheats”. A personal attempt to figure out his thought process…

It's so funny that it's only been the #1 players in the world. Isn't that a funny coincidence?

Don't you think that's a little odd? No?

 

[Winner Sinner]

Mark Petchey, former world number 80 and now British commentator, has taken a clear stand in defense of Jannik Sinner against Nick Kyrgios' constant attacks on the issue of the world number 1's positive doping tests last March.
In an interview with Betway, reported by Tennis365, Petchey sent a direct message to the Australian: “Kyrgios must let it go. Sinner was found not guilty, right? And the appeal from the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) is about to be examined. Let's wait for this. We need to let the process take its course. This is a matter of great importance. Someone's career is at stake."

Petchey's words underline the importance of maintaining a balanced and respectful approach in such a delicate situation, inviting Kyrgios to moderate his comments while awaiting final decisions from the competent authorities.

 

[Watching]

And it's only the top female player in the world and top male player in the world who've had this contamination drama this year within 7 months of eachother?

Not Kasatkina, not Collins, not Hurkacz, not Badosa, not Rublev, not Tomljanovic, not Fritz, not Ruud, not Navarro, not Pegula, not Shelton, not Moore, not De Minaur, not Tsitsipas, not Kalinskaya, not Fils, not Khachanov, not Kostyuk, not Ruud, not Svitolina, not Borges, not Boulter, not Martinez, not Struff, not Fernandez?

Isn't that funny? Isn't that weird?

Isn't that the weirdest coincidence?

It's not a statistical marvel, I haven't seen anybody getting heads ten times in a row.
I expect the random checks not being so random and checking top players more often than, say, a top 500 player.
If not for anything simply because they play the most games getting deep into tournaments

 

[travlerajm]

The players that win the most money are going to be the players that get tested and scrutinized the most.

If you are counting cards to try to cheat the casino, the casino isn’t going to notice and try to bust you until you start doing it well enough to start winning.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

It's not a statistical marvel, I haven't seen anybody getting heads ten times in a row.
I expect the random checks not being so random and checking top players more often than, say, a top 500 player

So you're answer is, just a strange coincidence?

Of all those players I listed plus so many more.

Just a freak occurrence that a #1 tennis player tests positive to a banned substance, a VERY rare thing in this sport. And then to have it happen TWICE?

Weird coincidence yes?

 

[Aussie Darcy]

The players that win the most money are going to be the players that get tested and scrutinized the most.

So just a weird freak coincidence both #1 players within 7 months of eachother have drug contamination/silly goose trainers who don't read steroid doping cream instructions?

Isn't that funny.

We've had quite a few #1 players on both tours for a long time, none testing positive while #1. But we get two in 1 year? Isn't that odd? A little weird to you? Apparently not?

 

[Watching]

Well, yes? Again we're not talking a 1/1000 chance here

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Well, yes? Again we're not talking a 1/1000 chance here

Yeah more like 1 in 1 billion i'd say.

Of all the players, of all the drugs, of all the creams, of all the trainers, of all the countries, of all the pharmacies, of all the testing, of all the tournaments.

Sinner happens to have a dumb dumb trainer? And Swiatek happens to get a contaminated sleeping pill?

But Kasatkina, Collins, Hurkacz, Badosa, Rublev, Tomljanovic, Fritz, Ruud, Navarro, Pegula, Shelton, Moore, De Minaur, Tsitsipas, Kalinskaya, Fils, Khachanov, Kostyuk, Ruud, Svitolina, Borges, Boulter, Martinez, Struff, Fernandez are all fine.

Isn't that funny.

 

[Watching]

Statistics are weird.
The odds of sharing your birthday with one person are 1/366, or 0.0027%
In order to get this % to 50% how many people do you think you need?
Wrong. It's only 23 people. (You can look it up)

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Statistics are weird.
The odds of sharing your birthday with one person are 1/366, or 0.0027%
In order to get this % to 50% how many people do you think you need?
Wrong. It's only 23 people. (You can look it up)

I just want some confirmation.

Of all the players, of all the drugs, of all the creams, of all the trainers, of all the countries, of all the pharmacies, of all the testing, of all the tournaments.

Sinner and Swiatek just really got unlucky? This is all a coincidence and some real bad luck that the #1 male and #1 female tested positive to doping in the same year? But both were clean?

Yes?

 

[reaper]

I just want some confirmation.

Of all the players, of all the drugs, of all the creams, of all the trainers, of all the countries, of all the pharmacies, of all the testing, of all the tournaments.

Sinner and Swiatek just really got unlucky? This is all a coincidence and some real bad luck that the #1 male and #1 female tested positive to doping in the same year? But both were clean?

Yes?

So it would seem.

 

[travlerajm]

Statistics are weird.
The odds of sharing your birthday with one person are 1/366, or 0.0027%
In order to get this % to 50% how many people do you think you need?
Wrong. It's only 23 people. (You can look it up)

And if your group all does couples vacations on the same weekend every year, that number comes way down.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

So it would seem.

Awesome, just glad to hear some confirmation these are the excuses people genuinely bought. Thanks for the reply.

Some bad luck those two had and to have it happen so close together! What a weird coincidence hehe.

 

[Watching]

Awesome, just glad to hear some confirmation these are the excuses people genuinely bought. Thanks for the reply.

Some bad luck those two had and to have it happen so close together! What a weird coincidence hehe.

My bad, I shouldn't bring maths to a discussion with you anymore. Noted.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

My bad, I shouldn't bring maths to a discussion with you anymore. Noted.

Wasn't even the math, I asked a question which you didn't answer, Reaper did. So i'll ask you directly.

Of all the players, of all the drugs, of all the creams, of all the trainers, of all the countries, of all the pharmacies, of all the testing, of all the tournaments.

Sinner and Swiatek just really got unlucky? This is all a coincidence and some real bad luck that the #1 male and #1 female tested positive to doping in the same year? But both were clean?

That's what you believe?

 

[reaper]

Awesome, just glad to hear some confirmation these are the excuses people genuinely bought. Thanks for the reply.

Some bad luck those two had and to have it happen so close together! What a weird coincidence hehe.

It's no more or less likely to be the #1 on the male side and #2 on the female side, than #26 on the men's side and #43 on the women's side. Both are a 1/10 000 statistical likelihood if you have one positive in the top 100 on each side.

 

[Watching]

Wasn't even the math, I asked a question which you didn't answer, Reaper did. So i'll ask you directly.

Of all the players, of all the drugs, of all the creams, of all the trainers, of all the countries, of all the pharmacies, of all the testing, of all the tournaments.

Sinner and Swiatek just really got unlucky? This is all a coincidence and some real bad luck that the #1 male and #1 female tested positive to doping in the same year? But both were clean?

That's what you believe?

I already answered you in three occasions

 

[Aussie Darcy]

It's no more or less likely to be the #1 on the male side and #2 on the female side, than #26 on the men's side and #43 on the women's side. Both are a 1/10 000 statistical likelihood if you have one positive in the top 100 on each side.

Just some crazy bad luck hehe. And the sport of tennis looks fantastic having this happen! Weird coincidence the top players on either tour test positive to doping and have a perfect excuse that oh no my dumb trainer didn't read the label of the steroid cream or oh no my sleeping pills were contaminated!

 

[reaper]

Just some crazy bad luck hehe. And the sport of tennis looks fantastic having this happen! Weird coincidence the top players on either tour test positive to doping and have a perfect excuse that oh no my dumb trainer didn't read the label of the steroid cream or oh no my sleeping pills were contaminated!

Had Sinner's form deteriorated post March there might be more substance to the notion that he was doping. Playing with or without a billionth of a gram of clostebol in his system doesn't seem to make any difference.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Had Sinner's form deteriorated post March there might be more substance to the notion that he was doping. Playing with or without a billionth of a gram of clostebol in his system doesn't seem to make any difference.

Just a crazy unfortunate coincidence for both him and Swiatek this year!!

 

[Watching]

Just a crazy unfortunate coincidence for both him and Swiatek this year!!

It's not, but you appear to have put me on ignore or can't get my point at all

 

[Aussie Darcy]

It's not, but you appear to have put me on ignore or can't get my point at all

I got your point, you believe this is all a real funny coincidence. (You're saying it's not the word "coincidence" but I mean it is, these two exact events of failing a doping test, happening to the #1 player?)

Just so unlucky for them both that this happened to them this year!

Both of them with really bad luck A dumb trainer using a steroid cream and the real unfortunate luck of a contaminated sleeping pill!

Literally 50+ players I could list all safe and not going through this but just so unlucky and coincidental we get the #1 player on the ATP & WTA going through it? AND IN THE SAME YEAR?

What a coincidence Hehe.

 

[reaper]

Just a crazy unfortunate coincidence for both him and Swiatek this year!!

I wouldn't have put it like that because I've seen far crazier coincidences than this one. Two leading players in a sport claim to have inadvertently breached a drug rule. Given the number of substances banned and the tiny quantities that return as positive it doesn't seem terribly improbable.