This might help explain golf's popularity to tennis fans

Kevin Patrick

Hall of Fame
Nice piece:

Golf vs. Tennis
How one country club sport defeated the other.
By Field Maloney

On Sunday evening, there was a palpable sense of relief in the TV commentators' voices as the sun went down over the U.S. Open championships. It had been a thrilling, hard-fought final. The matchup had storybook dimensions: tennis's most dominant player, Roger Federer, squaring off against its charismatic elder spokesman, Andre Agassi. Still, John McEnroe, Mary Carillo, and Dick Enberg, the CBS announcers, had reason to be nervous. Last year's finals drew the lowest television ratings in Open history. And this year, despite all the drama and unexpected excitement, there were still reminders that tennis is stuck in a decades-long slump, with the audience for the professional game and the number of Americans playing recreationally both shrinking.

The biggest slight was directed at Robby Ginepri, a doleful-eyed journeyman from Georgia, who suffered the indignity of having his fourth-round match against Richard Gasquet cut off in the middle of the third set so that USA Network could air Law & Order: SVU. For much of the last two weeks, until the epic Agassi-Blake quarterfinal last Thursday, Arthur Ashe Stadium rarely appeared more than two-thirds full. Agassi's comments after his match against Blake—"I wasn't the winner, tennis was"—hinted at how U.S. players feel the burden of keeping tennis alive. Would Allen Iverson ever proclaim in a postgame interview that the real victor that night was the game of basketball?

I spent some time this summer on the men's U.S. pro circuit, where a sense of bitterness about the state of tennis hangs over players' lounges and practice courts. You hear it from the coaches, administrators, and hangers-on, and it gets directed at different targets, but the basic substance is the same: What can make Americans pay attention to tennis? I remember one grizzled coach, a Polish émigré, spinning elaborate ********* conspiracy theories involving various tennis governing bodies and the TV networks, whom he considered nearly as bad as the Communist government he'd defected from. Justin Gimelstob, a smart, outspoken, 28-year-old tour veteran, calls the game—somewhat ruefully—"a niche sport."

Meanwhile, golf has exploded in popularity. This is a sore point in the American tennis community. "Golf is horrible for America," Gimelstob told me. "There are enough overweight out-of-shape people as it is, and you get guys spending five hours on the few days they have off away from their families playing golf, and then going out to eat and drink afterward. It's horrible." There's a Cain-and-Abel element at play here. Golf and tennis are essentially sibling rivals, both raised in white polo shirts, one wielding a 9-iron, the other a wooden racquet, who, during the leisure boom after World War II, left their stuffy country club to seek fame and fortune on a larger scale.

Golf's popularity originally surged in the late 1950s and '60s. You had a golf-nut president, Dwight Eisenhower, and a charismatic regular-guy star, Arnold Palmer, the son of a course superintendent. Public links were going up all over the country. As golf expanded, its core constituency shifted from the old-money WASP establishment to the new technocratic elite. Golf became the pastime of the American business class. Firmly rooted in the culture of the deal, golf found a bigger stage in the '80s and reached an apogee of media attention in the '90s with the arrival of Tiger Woods.

Yet, during the '70s and into the early '80s, tennis appeared poised to grab the limelight. Golf seemed too fusty and stiff for prime time, too male, too redolent of Republicans and retirees, less prepared to shed its exclusive aura. Tennis courts could be found in neighborhoods rich and poor, and the sport already had its Tiger Woods figure: Arthur Ashe, black, from a blue-collar background, tremendously eloquent, poised, and statesmanlike. But tennis's popularity, in terms of people playing, peaked in 1978 and has been dropping ever since. These days, the professional game has some clout abroad, but, in the States, tennis is on the cultural sidelines. The guy with the 9-iron has become an American everyman.

How did this come to pass? Every year brings a new crop of tennis-is-dying articles, with a familiar list of theories. Changes in racquet technology have made for a faster, duller game. Too few colorful personalities at the top of the game, and too few Americans. Poor TV coverage. These are more reductive than helpful. The rise of golf and the decline of tennis can be explained by the changing popular perceptions of the games. In the '50s and early '60s, tennis and golf were aspirational sports, part of the American upper-middle-class package: If you wanted to join, you played. Tennis, as it outgrew its country-club demographic in the late '60s and '70s, gradually became more of a sport than a lifestyle. Most tennis was no longer part of a day at the club and all the upturned-collar conversation that entailed. It was simply a couple of hours of hitting a green ball back and forth over a net.

The irony is that golf has thrived and tennis withered precisely because tennis has worked so hard to expand into a wider demographic. In the '70s and '80s, more public courts were built, more outreach programs were started, and racquets got cheaper and easier to use. Andre Agassi, in his younger, wilder years, played in black denim and lime-green Lycra in order to, as he said last week, "bring something to the game that would maybe impact those that don't normally watch it, maybe to draw interest to the game."

Golf has shed its clubby trappings much more slowly. Tiger Woods never plays tournaments in shorts, let alone black denim and Lycra. Two out of the three American majors this year were held at private clubs.* For better or worse, golf has remained an aspirational sport in the American consciousness, an emblem of the road to success and prosperity. Golf's tent got bigger—and more meritocratic (even Tony Soprano plays golf)—but never lost its peaked shape. Tennis, by becoming a mere sport, plunged into an identity crisis, and was left out of the bounties of American aspiration.

The final insult is how, despite tennis's efforts to woo the people, the sport has never shaken its vestigial associations to the old WASP aristocracy. For evidence of this, you need go no further than the ever chameleonlike and opportunistic Bush clan, whose deep roots in both games co-exist with a knack for political self-presentation. So, while George H. W. Bush is a dedicated tennis fan and player and his eldest son was an avid player well into his 30s—part of W. and Laura's courtship was spent at a Texas tennis ranch—the president now seems to make a point of never being seen with a racquet. Tennis has become a political liability: effete, preppy, what high-schoolers call a "wussy sport." Whereas golf, no matter how fey the links attire or how pricey the greens fees, has become so solidly red-blooded and all-American that even our folksy president can embrace it.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2126314/?nav=fo
 
If I could be prejudice for just a minute here, based upon the author's name alone <Field Maloney> it could be that the only perspective he has is from a 'country club' atmosphere....And the dude said that tennis balls are green! ;O Kinda makes you think he may not know so much about our sport...........Not claiming to be smarter than Field, but having played tennis and taught tennis since back in the tennis boom days, i can tell you that i think the sport died because it is a difficult one, and as new people came to the sport they quickly decided they didnt wish to put the time in or werent athletically good enough to get any good at it, so they went to Racquetball because that is much easier to play and that sport boomed for a while, leaving a core group of tennis nuts and those good enough to enjoy...Then RBall was considered too much work and too difficult, so then the Tennis clubs that were converted to RBall clubs then became converted to gyms, and I think that's about where things still are in general altho the American people seem to just be getting fatter and fatter.....I think many would agree that tennis doesnt really become fun and be a great workout until you reach a certain proficiency and can at least sustain a little ralley, and with these newer frames going B-O-I-N-G balls are flying eveywhere. I dont think you can even compare golf to tennis from anything other than a how many play each sport altho i think of golf more as an activity than a sport
 
Good analysis of the American game. Tennis seems an aspirational sport in China, which should be important. But the basic problem: tennis cannot broadcast well. While playing it we feel much more push and tug than comes across on radio or TV, and in a three-hour match the must-win moments are not as apparant as they are in golf, or football or baseball for that matter. Also, all the other major sports have a kiddie version (as in par-3 golf). Tennis? Make courts for kids! Like the one Henman learned on.
 
Tennis on broadcast should be as good as golf which I swore I would never watch as a kid. But sure enough once Tiger started crushing everybody in 2000, I got a bit interested. I think tennis in America needs a good crossover personality like Tiger who could bring people in who wouldnt otherwise be interested. Some people thought the Williams' would do that, but there are huge differences obviously. Whereas Tiger has huge knowledge and respect for his predecessors, the Williams have none. And Tiger's dedication to his craft is unwavering, while Serena's waistline is wavering.
 
I guess I'm kind of lost. I like tennis, what else matters. I got three racquets and buddies to play tennis with, play two or three times a week. I may have to restring every year, I restring when the strings break. New balls cost two bucks and I never ever have to pay for a court or wait for a court. I'm not interested in golf. I don't have to feign liking golf to schmooze or get ahead in the workplace. I'm not part of any country club society. So why should I or many other people care if any of this alleged 'tennis waning in popularity' is true or not?

In a way, tennis' supposed unpopularity is my advantage.

Is tennis really suffering? After going to the USO a couple times this year and watching the rest on TV I thought is was doing pretty well.
 
The author also seems to be forgetting that golf is a game that a few buddies can get together and play over a few beers to "escape" for about 4 or 5 hours. Justin Gimelstob seemed to pick that up. Tennis is a real sport--no one is going to recreationally play for 4 or 5 hours, locked into a concrete court and fenced cage. While golf may be a good walk spoiled, you can actually enjoy it by playing it bad. I've only played 1 round in my life, yet I enjoyed it. Didn't care where I hit it, b/c I was just out having fun, enjoying the course. You can't enjoy a tennis court unless you enjoy the game itself. You can't really enjoy playing tennis badly. Sure it's fun once in a while, but you're not going to go every Saturday and chase balls around the court. I really think Mojo's on to something about it being a difficult sport to learn which is the major hurdle. I taught myself how to hit a golf ball by listening to the Golf Channel. I don't think I could've done the same watching the Tennis Channel.
 
"Green tennis balls" - until the early 1970s tennis was played with white tennis balls which would gain a green tint after being played on grass courts; symbolic of WASP country club play.
 
The author is way too focused on a cultural analysis to explain the surging popularity of golf and the comparatively diminished stature of tennis. While cultural theory can certainly help us grasp how marketing, presentation, and status affect the popularity of a sport, one must incorporate such analysis with economic factors as well. In terms of the golf vs. tennis question, the biggest economic factor is the aging baby boomer demographic, which picked up on tennis in the 1970s when they were still in their 20s and 30s. Now that they've reached their 50s and 60s, tennis is simply not as viable a sport with all the running and athleticism required. Golf has successfully captured the baby boomers in suburban America despite the fact golfers are quite the boring lot. Big business has always been keen on the baby boomer demographic. Plastic surgery is bigger now partly because it's something that will appeal to the middle-aged crowd. Watch television commercials and you'll be amazed at how many products (especially drugs) are geared towards that age group. But even if marketing is geared towards one group, we all get to see the commercials, and many would get the false impression that tennis is not a cool sport and golf is where it's at.

While tennis is certainly not headed near death, it's a sport that suffers from the difficulty of learning it, the cost of having rackets restrung for optimum performance, the deterioration of public courts, and the fewer number of new players compared to golf. Obviously tennis players alone can't solve this problem, but certainly it's something worth discussing if the future of tennis is something that concerns us at all.
 
I am a tennis purists, i will watch no matter who is playing, i am in a tennis club and i just love the game.I dont care if there are not alot of american players on top.These guys obsviously dont care too know about the swiss genius thats dominating now.
 
I'm just sayin' .....

Not that it matters at all to me, Buuuuut:
how about all the professional tennis players, tennis coaches, tennis aficionados who talk about all the golf they play in their time away from the courts?

Strangely loved, this game of golf. I personally do not get it (yet?), but it's got its fans (maybe not on these boards, though).
The way I see it, golf makes for a fun day (even a week), but until I am older, I just do not know about spending 4.5+ hours playin' that game.

Maybe if I were a pro tennis player, I would need that kind of time away from my job. But, back to all those players and coaches who just can't live without golf: WTF? Help me out....although this may be the wrong audience. Well, this a reasonable diverse crowd, so ... go ahead, players!
 
Why do people think that golf is an easy sport to learn? I think you definitely need lessons to even play it moderately well.

I think that if you have good athletic ability you can get to a 3.5 level in tennis pretty quickly. Golf is all skill, athletic ability is not going to help you that much. Tennis is somewhat hard to learn but golf is harder IMO.
 
Thanks for posting that. Very interesting.

What do y'all make of the gender claim at the tail end of the article? It had never really occurred to me to see the near gender equity of tennis as a "weakness" in the popularity of the sport, but there may be something there. Even while you guys were describing recreational golf (particularly Craig's description), it definitely seems like it's a *guys* kinda sport, despite how unathletic and non-agressive it is. (I'm not arguing that these are inherent male qualities or anything--you know what I mean.)

Is tennis then seen as, well, kinda gay? The comment about W's lack of a tennis raquet b/c of its feminine associations initially seemed like a stretch to me. But many Republicans do go out of their way to play up their maleness and make their political opponents (men or women) seem somehow feminine or weak (as if those adjectives were synonymous). Maybe tennis is getting "girlier" somehow. It would be interesting to discuss why, if this were true, the girliness of tennis would automatically make it less popular in America.

And callitout--slate is a pretty good site all around. The articles are almost always well written and argued. It definitely leans left in its politics (or it seems that way to me), but in general they seem pretty fair about the issues they cover.
 
Okay, on a second read I'm realizing that I'm extrapolating a lot from the "effete" and "wussy" comment. But this is a gendered criticism--that somehow tennis isn't man enough to be a sport worth watching or playing.

Is this true? Do people really see tennis this way?
 
After all, we're tennis players. Whether or not we agree with the article, we cannot ignore the facts. Golf has really dominated every sport related entertainment economically with exception of....... auto racing. The rise of corporate sponsorship and prize money the golf pros playing for every week is utterly ridiculous. Comparing the numbers of top earnings for '04, $11 mil for Vijay Singh versus $6.5 for Roger Federer, it really supports the perception that tennis as a sport is on a anemic decline. To add insult to injury, we all know Vijay is not even the best golfer in the world. I'll go out on a limb and say the money Tiger is earning a year (including outrageous endorsements and appearance fees) could possibly finance the entire professional tennis tour.

Just turn on the TV every weekend... practically all year round there's a golf tournament on a 'major' network channel and sometimes more than one.

Keep in mind that we need to consider the fans also. In today's age, the sport thrives on the sole basis of its fans. Basically, there are non-golfers watch and follow golf more than non-tennis players follwing tennis. Case and point, my wife, my 5 and 3 yr old boys will watch golf knowing Tiger is Tiger. Switch to tennis and they have no clue who Roger is.

Another fact that this year's USO final TV rating doubled compared to last year was no surprise because the general fans could careless about Federer and Hewitt of '04. But this year however, those fans returned simply because of nastalgia... Our holy grail, Mr Agassi who everyone adored back in the glory years. While it's a positive note however, the disparity of TV viewers from one year to another is an alarming one. It only shows how unstable the foundation of the sport is.

I was glad to hear that this year's USO ticket sales set a record... Yet they were still not sold out for Saturday and Sunday. Golf tournaments and majors especially need not to toot their horn because every event is sold out beyond capacity a year in advance!!!

In case you're wondering, Pete Sampras, Michael Chang and Jim Courier all hung up their rackets and swinging a driver instead. In fact, they're on a course somewhere right now as you read this.
 
mellofelow said:
.In case you're wondering, Pete Sampras, Michael Chang and Jim Courier all hung up their rackets and swinging a driver instead. In fact, they're on a course somewhere right now as you read this.

Yep, and many former football, hockey, baseball, basketball players play on a golf tour just for them and other celebrities: Celebrity Golf Tour,

http://www.celebritygolf.com/
 
One big advantage TV golf has over tennis is that when you're watching a round you are simultaneously watching more than a dozen players live (playing different holes, obviously). If you can spare several hours, you can watch the whole filed in one sitting. You can never do that in tennis unless you're watching some edited recordings, which is not the same.

This is particularly pronounced at the golf majors. In 4 hours, you can see Tiger, Ernie, Vijay etc., pretty much the whole top 50 of the sport, and it's all LIVE. You can't have that in tennis. Not to mention that with all the cameras and other resources they have at their disposal you practically never miss a good shot made by anyone anywhere on the course. You either see it live or within 30 seconds of it being played. Watching the last 1.5 hours of final round of a golf major is like a highlight reel of the game's biggest stars since more often than not several of the top 10 guys are always within a few shots of the lead. You have to admit this makes for very entertaining and suspenseful TV.

As for playing, the problem with tennis is that if the two players aren't quite evenly matched (within 1, or even 0.5 NTRP levels) it's hard to have a decent game. In golf, with the handicap system, it is much easier to find opponents.
 
I said it in the Sticky to Weller Evans of ATP (he didn't reply it yet in the sticky) and I will repeat it:

I'd like to see ATP getting a page from the PGA real practices and instead of trying to shorten the tennis matches via tiebreaks, ad only games, 2 of 3 sets, etc, in order to "satisfy" TV networks, let, on the contrary, the matches run as long as possible by whatever means.

Golf days start at 11am and end at 19.00 on many networks. And golf has a much higher audience now as a result.

You need visibility and presence , people, and if you think that will be realised by shortening tennis matches, you're absolutely wrong.

LET THE SHOW RUN!! Let it be Pasarell Gonzalez or El Aynaoui Roddick.
 
I've always agreed with the 'Mojo "tennis is too hard for instant gratification crazed Americans" mindset. People can get out and play golf and be closer to Tiger and Phil than tennis players getting out, because not many are going to feel like Roger and Andy. The thing is, golf to me, is an activity, not exactly a sport. Anything you can do with a cigarette or cigar hanging out of your mouth IS NOT A SPORT! Say it with me. I also very much agree with Justin Gimelstob's perspective that golf is perpetuating obesity in our country. In golf, you are going to spend most of the time riding around in a cart (not many people walk anymore, I live in a golf course community and have only seen 1 person walking the course so far!), which does nothing for fitness, and it's really closer to "hanging out" than actually competing in a sport. The other thing I hate about golf is that it's so damn frustrating and expensive.l
 
@wright said:
I've always agreed with the 'Mojo "tennis is too hard for instant gratification crazed Americans" mindset. People can get out and play golf and be closer to Tiger and Phil than tennis players getting out, because not many are going to feel like Roger and Andy. The thing is, golf to me, is an activity, not exactly a sport. Anything you can do with a cigarette or cigar hanging out of your mouth IS NOT A SPORT! Say it with me. I also very much agree with Justin Gimelstob's perspective that golf is perpetuating obesity in our country. In golf, you are going to spend most of the time riding around in a cart (not many people walk anymore, I live in a golf course community and have only seen 1 person walking the course so far!), which does nothing for fitness, and it's really closer to "hanging out" than actually competing in a sport. The other thing I hate about golf is that it's so damn frustrating and expensive.l


I agree that golf is not really a sport. But anybody who goes out and plays for the for a short time is not any closer to Tiger and Phil than they are to Roger and Andy. The fact that golf is so expensive and people are still willing to put out the big bucks to play it is a testement to its popularity.

It really is a social gathering. A bunch of hacks go out as a group. They all are terrible at golf but who cares? You drink some brewskis, you don't have to be in good shape and you can talk business or whatever.

Tennis really more of a direct competition as is not as much social. Even in "social tennis" it really isn't that social compared to golf.
 
Craig Sheppard said:
You can't enjoy a tennis court unless you enjoy the game itself. You can't really enjoy playing tennis badly. I really think Mojo's on to something about it being a difficult sport to learn which is the major hurdle. I taught myself how to hit a golf ball by listening to the Golf Channel. I don't think I could've done the same watching the Tennis Channel.

That's it right there in a nutshell. Tennis is so damn hard to master that a lot of people have neither patience nor desire to dedicate themselves to it. We all have seen those newbies try and keep the ball in a court. They get tired, they get frustrated, and they quit. End of story. Too demanding. There has to be coaching at an early age, massive coaching to a level where kids can keep the ball in. That's all its gonna take for them to stay interested, tennis will take it from there by itself.
 
arosen said:
That's it right there in a nutshell. Tennis is so damn hard to master that a lot of people have neither patience nor desire to dedicate themselves to it. We all have seen those newbies try and keep the ball in a court. They get tired, they get frustrated, and they quit. End of story. Too demanding. There has to be coaching at an early age, massive coaching to a level where kids can keep the ball in. That's all its gonna take for them to stay interested, tennis will take it from there by itself.

You really don't have to start playing tennis at an early age to enjoy it. I know plenty of people who started as adults that range from 3.5-5.0 levels.
 
bebots said:
I guess I'm kind of lost. I like tennis, what else matters. I got three racquets and buddies to play tennis with, play two or three times a week. I may have to restring every year, I restring when the strings break. New balls cost two bucks and I never ever have to pay for a court or wait for a court. I'm not interested in golf. I don't have to feign liking golf to schmooze or get ahead in the workplace. I'm not part of any country club society. So why should I or many other people care if any of this alleged 'tennis waning in popularity' is true or not?

In a way, tennis' supposed unpopularity is my advantage.

Is tennis really suffering? After going to the USO a couple times this year and watching the rest on TV I thought is was doing pretty well.

Some of us wouldve liked to see a mens quarterfinal GS match actually carried to its conclusion instead of preempted by a Law and Order rerun. If tennis were more popular, balls might or might not be more expensive. There might be more competition on the supply side too. Similar with courts if it were more popular people might build more courts and you still might not have much of a wait. But Im afraid you couldnt watch a 2nd round USO match with a top 10 player on an outside court for 40 bucks from 10 feet away. So that would be the one downside of tennis becoming more popular.
 
When I talk about "being like Tiger", I'm not necessarily saying that golfing beginners are closer to doing what the pros do than tennis amateurs. What I mean is that in golf, there are alot of activities that are done besides swinging the club. You have to walk (ride) around, find your ball, select the right club, hit your shot, repeat as necessary. You can do all of these things just like the pros, even if your shot doesn't look just like their shot. In tennis, playing a lower level just doesn't resemble advanced tennis, which is what people compare themselves to. Most people have seen the pros hit, and know what it looks like. It just doesn't translate to their being able to do it, which leads to doubt and frustration, and quitting. In golf, everyone is doing closer to the same activities. It doesn't make as much of a difference in the whole experience what level you're doing it at. Just as someone mentioned, playing golf at a low level is "hanging out", drinking beers, getting away, etc...The experience overshadows the low level for hackers.
 
I only half agree w/ @Wright. One nice thing for golf's popularity is the scheduling issue mentioned above. One person can go to the club and play, fitness not required, and dont have to worry about partner stuck at work. Yeah you can kinda hack around and say its like what Tiger does, but im not really seeing that playing golf losing a ball every 3 holes has more in common with Tiger than my 4.5 tennis has to do with Pete's.

I remember an interviewer asking Tiger what he recommended to the club golfer to improve consistency, and he said "that just what the guy who plays on the weekend is inconsistent." Similarly Wayne Gretzky, an avid golfer, asked Tiger how he dealt with the wind. He said just hit it right and the wind doesnt matter.
Pete once was asked to give advice to the club player, his response: "lob short and head for the pool."
bottom line is its almost always impossible to relate what a regular guy does to the pro except in our fantasies.
 
i think i have to argee with the article that it really does have much to do with the social aspect of the sport. I myself is not a fan of golf at all but i understand that it is a "rich man's" game and if you ever want to/become rich you must go through a little stop call golf. I think it is safe to say that you will seem to have it made anywhere in the world if you have yourself established as a regular at the greens.

Tennis on the other hand is really struggling as a regular sport since it is neither a game for the "rich nor the poor" Tennis courts are from what I've seen are rarely free and even if they are, are the ones where the nets have been destroyed or disappeared , grounds are cracked, overcrowded, and with a few piles of dog sh*t here and there. So as a casual player you don't want to fork out the money for a tennis permit or a limited time on the fancy court yet it is hard to face the depressing state of the free courts. I am sure there are more reasons why tennis is declining in the US but this makes the game hard enough to appeal.
 
I definitely wouldn't consider you, a 4.5, in my analysis, because you are way above the average player. I am talking people who aren't proficient at their sport. As a 4.5, you have alot more in common than someone losing a ball every 3 holes. Now imagine a tennis player who is the equivalent of losing a ball every 3 holes (whatever that may be). When you are playing at a low level of proficiency, golfing has more in common with the top of the game than tennis does. In fact, chances are you aren't even playing a tennis match (beginners like to get out and hit and try to keep the ball in play as opposed to a 4.5). Just finished 9 or 18 holes is an activity in itself, as opposed to playing a tennis match, which is more of a direct competition where the feeling come more from the outcome and the level of play.
 
I feel the enviroment of both sports affect it's popularity. Only few tennis courts can be found in beautiful places, while most golf courts are already in beautiful places. You go out on a leisure sport to do that, enjoy it. And the enviroment is key.

Golf and Tennis are both difficult sports. But Golf has better tools to help you get better at the game, while Tennis doesn't have much of that. Like those little home putting things, the differnet golf clubs that break if you swing wrong and all that stuff. Golf can be played at the leisure of your own home (the nets to catch the ball, the fact most people have backyard lawns, and such). Tennis can't be really played at the leisure of your own home.
 
From a popularity perspective, people watch sports because 1. they play the sport or 2. the sport is exciting or entertaining. These reasons lead one to understand why golf is more popular than tennis.

I don't see tennis ever having the number of people participating/playing that golf has. Golf requires minimal fitness. In addition, golf doesn't require that my opponent is approximately my level. I can go play a round of golf with an old guy and a couple kids. Our scores may range from 80 to 110. Odds are, we'll all enjoy ourselves. It's likely that a 5.0 tennis player will have no fun playing a 3.5 player. One great thing about golf is the universal scoring system. I can go play Pebble Beach and compare my score to Tiger's. I can't go play Andre in Arthur Ashe Stadium and compare my outcome to Roger's.

Truth be told, most tennis matches are not exciting. The people on this forum will watch all the tennis we can. But, the average fan just won't get as much out of it as we will. The majority of tennis matches just aren't interesting. In golf, even blowouts are reasonably exciting because in these cases the player is playing the course, not the rest of the field.

Ryan
 
I think Maloney's article was thought-provoking ... and pretty "off" for many of the reasons already posted. (And who would expect Iverson to sound at all like any kind of the ambassador for a sport that Agassi is? That guy's a thug!)
____________

I played golf for one year. On starting, I heard that "only 10% of golfers in the world consistently break 100." So that became my goal. In five months I was regularly shooting in the mid-90s.

Three or four months later, and I quit. The dad-gum game takes too long, greens fees cost too much, and isn't really any kind of a workout. My golfing friends all thought I was crazy to stop. They said I should be aiming to break 90 then. (Boring!)
___________

It's taken me three years in our town of 20,000 to start and build our Ladder to all of 24 players. And the problem I discovered this summer is ... *I* seem to be the reason our Ladder is a success. That's not good enough, but I don't know how to change it.

In June my wife shattered her leg (tibia) in a fall. I've been her care-giver, physical therapist, chief cook and bottle washer. I have only played tennis two hours a week since her accident. If I had not arranged for some Doubles Days -- in which I didn't even play -- during the summer, I suspect our ladder would have collapsed entirely. Instead of the guys on the ladder keeping active in my absence, the whole ladder is in ... Limbo. We few players with leadership skills need more leaders to step up. The game cannot grow if there's only one "mover and shaker" in each town. (Thanks for letting me rant....)

NoBadMojo said:
... Tennis clubs that were converted to RBall clubs then became converted to gyms, and I think that's about where things still are in general altho the American people seem to just be getting fatter and fatter.
Wow! The state of US tennis in one sentence.

Actually, Ed's whole post should be bumped.

- KK
 
goober said:
Why do people think that golf is an easy sport to learn? I think you definitely need lessons to even play it moderately well.

I think that if you have good athletic ability you can get to a 3.5 level in tennis pretty quickly. Golf is all skill, athletic ability is not going to help you that much. Tennis is somewhat hard to learn but golf is harder IMO.

Don't know if you were referring to my post or not, I didn't say golf was easy to learn, what I did say was golf is fun even if you play badly. Tennis isn't. Have seen many more people get frustrated w/ tennis b/c they can't play it well than golf--seems they will still go out and enjoy golf.
 
@wright said:
When I talk about "being like Tiger", I'm not necessarily saying that golfing beginners are closer to doing what the pros do than tennis amateurs. What I mean is that in golf, there are alot of activities that are done besides swinging the club. You have to walk (ride) around, find your ball, select the right club, hit your shot, repeat as necessary. You can do all of these things just like the pros, even if your shot doesn't look just like their shot. In tennis, playing a lower level just doesn't resemble advanced tennis, which is what people compare themselves to. Most people have seen the pros hit, and know what it looks like. It just doesn't translate to their being able to do it, which leads to doubt and frustration, and quitting. In golf, everyone is doing closer to the same activities. It doesn't make as much of a difference in the whole experience what level you're doing it at. Just as someone mentioned, playing golf at a low level is "hanging out", drinking beers, getting away, etc...The experience overshadows the low level for hackers.


@wright--right on! This is exactly what I feel. Even though I've only shot 1 round, hey to me it resembled golf! I got the ball off the ground, it went straight, it came down closer to the hole (usually). I hit some drives off a tee, I hit some nice (IMO) iron shots, and putted. I even hit the water a few times. ;-) My first round I shot a 120. I know that won't win any awards, but I was able to measure my performance against great players. They would get to a hole in 3, maybe I'd get there in 6. The first few times I went out to play a tennis match, I really don't think I could get a hard serve in or hit a passing shot. The only thing my game resembled starting out was we kept score the same way. And I know casual tennis players who marvel at the pros but think it'd be an incredible amount of work to emulate them. Most go out and try and tell me an hour or so later, "WOW, that is SO much harder than it looks on TV".
 
It's seems like there's a building consensus in this thread that the main issue with tennis's lack of popularity now is how difficult the sport is, how distant the pro-level is from the novice level in terms of skill and fitness. I'm just not sure I buy this. (To me it sounds more like the response of decent tennis players on a tennis board who are really attuned to nuances of the game, the skills, and the fitness needed at a variety of levels.)

A few points here:
(1) When tennis was more widely popular back in the day, the skill level of the top pros was high, the dudes were fit, etc. And this didn't turn anyone off. Maybe you could argue that the personalities of the game outweighed any of these issues, but I'm not convinced that we should understand this as the public's temporary distraction from their potentially deeper and inherent alienation from a difficult game (or something along these lines).

(2) I see a lot of people playing tennis crappily on public courts. And they seem to have a lot of fun doing so. I've seen it down South all my life and now up in the ******* (when there's not a foot of snow everywhere). And yeah, sometimes these people are out of shape. The fact is, tennis is more accessible publically than golf, and I honestly can't see this as a detractor from the popularity of the sport. It could be a prestige thing (as the article was arguing that more accessibility = less prestige), but prestige is a funny thing. Trying to hit that fuzzy ball could be frustrating for a novice, but it might remind people about how hard the game is to play for the pros and make it that much more impressive. If this isn't happening for tennis nowadays, the question is why? This is where I find the media/marketing-of-the-sport criticism more compelling.

(3) No one's bitten at this, and I think it's still worth asking. Is tennis seen as less masculine of a sport than golf??? I still find this really hard to believe, but this may have something to do with the public not taking it seriously. I mean, poker is barely a sport but it gets more coverage, the guy's are fatter than ever, and it's marketed constantly as a guys-just-being-guys game. I do get annoyed when people say, "Yeah, I watch tennis. That Sharapova is awesome," when she's got a mostly crummy-to-watch game. I mean, I know why they're watching, and that's their perogative. But it makes me sad to see that people rarely say they watch the sport of tennis for, well, the *sport* of it.
 
ask any 18 yar old why he enjoys being a part of a sporting club. The answer is predominately, "i enjoy being a part of a TEAM. I enjoy the mateship that goes with that. We can play together, then go for drinks later."

It's all about being a part of a team. To bond.
Tennis lacks this bonding element.
Incredibly, golf isn't a team sport, but manages to pull off the team spirit FEEL, on and off the field.
 
alienhamster said:
(3) No one's bitten at this, and I think it's still worth asking. Is tennis seen as less masculine of a sport than golf??? I still find this really hard to believe, but this may have something to do with the public not taking it seriously. I mean, poker is barely a sport but it gets more coverage, the guy's are fatter than ever, and it's marketed constantly as a guys-just-being-guys game.

First, yeah, I'd say in general it's true that there is a subset of humanity out there that still considers tennis a less-than-masculine pursuit. Not that this is a huge number, or that there's any validity to it, but I think that number is probably larger than it is for most other sports. I think it goes back to the days when tennis WAS the preferred "preppy" sport, and legions of guys with names like Forrest, Lance, and Buzz tromped merrily onto the courts in sweater vests and short-shorts. Old images die hard.

Second, it's interesting you bring up poker, which along with golf is the board's whipping boy when its merits are compared with tennis. Two things I don't think have been brought up, as to why poker and golf continue to skyrocket in popularity while tennis becomes more and more niche (apart from the already-cited fitness issues):

1) It's easy to measure your improvement. In tennis, you might have an abstract sense that you're hitting the ball better, or serving harder. You might start to see better results against a small group of players you frequently square off against. But in general, it's hard to say with any degree of certainty that your place on the universal tennis food chain is moving upward. With golf, it's mathematically simple to chart your improvement. I.e., what do you shoot? Ditto with poker. Your bankroll tells the tale. As long as it's growing, you're showing improvement. It's easy to brag to your friends about, and easy to compare notes on. "I shot an 89 the other day!" "I took 3rd in a 500 man tournament and won $2,500!"

2) People like to gamble, and both golf and (obviously) poker lend themselves to gambling-while-playing to a much greater degree than tennis does. Skins tennis? I don't think so.
 
Callitout, slate is cool to read, because it is hillarious. I'm far right wing and I love it because it is a parody of itself. It is well writin. That is what makes it funny. People who write that well must be mentally unstable, if they believe what they are writing for Slate.

I play golf and tennis. I love to hit things but hate playing team sports. Golf is cool because even my friends that can't take a flight of stairs without running out of breath can play it. I can drink beer, smoke cigarettes, drink vodka, other stuff and play at the same time. The cart girls can kick ass too. It is also harder than tennis. Absolutely every single millimeter counts when you swing at a golf ball. It is a sport, in which, you play against yourself. Until I started playing it, I couldn't imagine how one could watch it on tv. Now I love to play and watch.

Tennis is cool because it is one on one competition. Even doubles seems to be one on one to me. It is great exercise and when you master a shot it kicks ass to actually use it. The announcers can really spoil it for the average person. Female announcers with male voices sucks. Some, not all, of the male announcers seem effete. The writer of the column compares Arthur Ashe, who died of a.i.d.s., with Tiger Woods. "Blue-collar" background my ass. Comparing Ashe and Woods in the way the author did shows that he really has no clue. I do not care what ones sexual appetites are, but, when the sport becomes associated with certain cultural aspects, it may actually embarrass some people to play it.

Blackdafied had the best point. In a nutshell, the baby boomers are getting to old to play.
 
thejerk said:
Callitout, slate is cool to read, because it is hillarious. I'm far right wing and I love it because it is a parody of itself. It is well writin. That is what makes it funny. People who write that well must be mentally unstable, if they believe what they are writing for Slate.

I play golf and tennis. I love to hit things but hate playing team sports. Golf is cool because even my friends that can't take a flight of stairs without running out of breath can play it. I can drink beer, smoke cigarettes, drink vodka, other stuff and play at the same time. The cart girls can kick ass too. It is also harder than tennis. Absolutely every single millimeter counts when you swing at a golf ball. It is a sport, in which, you play against yourself. Until I started playing it, I couldn't imagine how one could watch it on tv. Now I love to play and watch.

Tennis is cool because it is one on one competition. Even doubles seems to be one on one to me. It is great exercise and when you master a shot it kicks ass to actually use it. The announcers can really spoil it for the average person. Female announcers with male voices sucks. Some, not all, of the male announcers seem effete. The writer of the column compares Arthur Ashe, who died of a.i.d.s., with Tiger Woods. "Blue-collar" background my ass. Comparing Ashe and Woods in the way the author did shows that he really has no clue. I do not care what ones sexual appetites are, but, when the sport becomes associated with certain cultural aspects, it may actually embarrass some people to play it.

Blackdafied had the best point. In a nutshell, the baby boomers are getting to old to play.
It's interesting that you associate excellent writing with mental instability. You might be onto something, considering how many great authors are kooks. But how is Slate a parody of itself? A lot of thr articles just aim to come up with theories/opinions about political issues, and they're usually very well argued. Now Fox News is a great example of a parody of "news." Is there anything that isn't a Fox news alert? Is it possible for any "journalist" on that network to ask a non-loaded question to liberal guests? Okay, sorry, I digress . . .

I actually like tennis primarily for the same reason you do--the individual competition. It's like boxing without getting the crap beat out of you. You can hit things really hard while still throwing in some finesse. And you get some exercise while getting your aggression out. It's awesome.

And I like the point above about gambling being part of the popularity in golf and poker (but not tennis). But people *could* wager more on tennis in this country, right? Why don't they? It seems like in other countries (at least the U.K. and Australia) people do bet on tennis.
 
Interesting read. I must say as a German, here Tennis and Golf were always upper class sports. Tennis changed with the boom in the 70s, the for a long time virtually unknown Golf is a sport for the rich even today. As a spectator sport, Golf had since WW II the big advantage of a successful, well organized and media-strenghened professional tour. Tennis had here great deficiencies through the amateur-pro segregation and the political turmoils between ITF, WCT, ATP and so on. Tennis was called in the US for a long time a 'sissy-sport', it could have in the 50s Palmer-like figures like Gonzales or Hoad, but they had no accession to TV. The tennis boom, which started with the advent of open tennis in the US and - end of the 70s- in Europe, too, was complemented by some highly popular faces: Connors, Mac for US, Borg for Europe, who gave people the opportunity to identify with. Tennis as a spectator sport in Germany started with Becker and Graf. On the high of the wave, the ATP made the mistake, to shift many important US events like the Masters to Germany. It was a media overkill and soon faded away with the retirement of Becker and Graf. I still think, that Tennis is an ideal TV sport with the Aristotelian unity of time and room, giving drama, emotions, psychological insight in two duellants. But it needs better structures at the institutional top, better scheduling and a cast of highly recognizable figures on the court.
 
VolklVenom said:
ask any 18 yar old why he enjoys being a part of a sporting club. The answer is predominately, "i enjoy being a part of a TEAM. I enjoy the mateship that goes with that. We can play together, then go for drinks later."

It's all about being a part of a team. To bond.
Tennis lacks this bonding element.
Incredibly, golf isn't a team sport, but manages to pull off the team spirit FEEL, on and off the field.


well that kinda works both ways. the fact that i would only have to deal and worry only about myself and no teamates is the reason i picked tennis.
 
thejerk said:
The writer of the column compares Arthur Ashe, who died of a.i.d.s. ... I do not care what ones sexual appetites are, but, when the sport becomes associated with certain cultural aspects, it may actually embarrass some people to play it.
It is well-known and widely documented that Ashe's AIDS came from a blood transfusion. In fact it was Arthur Ashe's "going public" which put real urgency into the system of testing the blood supply.

Is this merely a well-orchestrated "cover" for Ashe? Or is it true?

- KK
 
Deuce said:
Real men don't play golf until such time that they can no longer run after a tennis ball.

Truer words were never spoken. Some 'older' tennis buddies of mine have converted to golf. They've tried to get me to play. I tell them that golf is kind of like giving up. I played golf as a youth, my dad loved the game. For as much as he loved it, I think I hated it. He and my uncle used to need me for weekends, I think you had to have 3 to play.

On the flip side, my wife has said that when our daughter goes off to college, we're going to join a country club and start playing golf together.
 
Golf is not necessarily an easier sport to learn, but you can learn and pick up on it so much faster than in Tennis. Due to the fact there are better tools for learning than there are in tennis. A lot of people can practice golf at the comfort of their own homes, and even in their offices.

Tennis you'll need a tennis ball machine and some tennis balls, or a wall to hit on, or a partner to hit with and such. You can't play against yourself really like you can in Golf.

Golf has an objective scoring system. If you hit in the 90s, you can trim that down to 80s and such. Tennis has a scoring system, but it's nothing like Golf.
 
I think you're on to something....

VolklVenom said:
ask any 18 yar old why he enjoys being a part of a sporting club. The answer is predominately, "i enjoy being a part of a TEAM. I enjoy the mateship that goes with that. We can play together, then go for drinks later."

It's all about being a part of a team. To bond.
Tennis lacks this bonding element.
Incredibly, golf isn't a team sport, but manages to pull off the team spirit FEEL, on and off the field.
With *Peer Pressure* being one of the strongest forces in the land, I think you're on to something, with this. (I am, of course, allowing my definition of PP to expand to the need to ... belong.)

I still think this ...
zenit said:
the fact that i would only have to deal and worry only about myself and no teamates is the reason i picked tennis.
... which describes me, too -- is an anomoly. Way more people have a strong need to "do what's popular."


Combine VolklVenom's commentary with the PP of the elite/Country Clubbers ...
Grimjack said:
I think it goes back to the days when tennis WAS the preferred "preppy" sport, and legions of guys with names like Forrest, Lance, and Buzz tromped merrily onto the courts in sweater vests and short-shorts. Old images die hard.
... and you have some strong "influencers". (I don't think, for a minute, PP doesn't still exist among the Country Clubbers. Belonging to the "right" club is very important to them.)

For some reason the (apparent) humble beginnings of... Ashe ... Connors ... Agassi-the-Younger ... and the Williams sisters ... have had nearly ZERO influence on "popularizing" tennis. I don't, for a minute, believe another popular black player is going to make a difference ... for Blake went to "Hah-vahd" you know....

Conclusion:
I still think it's a TOP / Bottom thing. The Top Dogs in the USTA, WTA, ATP and ITF need "opti-rectomies". And we, at the Grassroots levels, need to help make tennis accessible:
... Offer to help your local Parks & Rec by teaching Beginner Group Lessons.
... Stop (Please!) perpetuating the line that "Tennis is difficult" (This is one place where I think Oscar Wenger is on to something. See his book/DVD You Can Learn to Play Tennis is 2 Hours.)
... Volunteer to help your local High School Coach run practices. (I really could have used this help from players 4.0 and up.)
... (I've done this....) Start a local Ladder. Organize the ladder players for Doubles Days once a month -- so they all get to know each other and develop some comraderie
... etc.

(Yes. I know the opti-rectomy will be the biggest obstacle. But don't give up.)

- KK
 
goober said:
Why do people think that golf is an easy sport to learn? I think you definitely need lessons to even play it moderately well.

I think that if you have good athletic ability you can get to a 3.5 level in tennis pretty quickly. Golf is all skill, athletic ability is not going to help you that much. Tennis is somewhat hard to learn but golf is harder IMO.

I so much disagree.
 
andfor said:
I so much disagree.

I'd imagine 99% of the posters on this board disagree. I get dragged to a golf course once every couple of years by friends, and I'm always struck by how easy that "sport" is...just stay balanced and relaxed, hit a stationary target and boom watch the ball sail thru the air....

OK tennis' popularity in the US is at a pretty low point these days...but it's popular enough to warrrant a tremendous amount of coverage on ESPN and other networks during the year. Yes we can and should complain about things like the Ginepri-Gasquet cutoff, but USA gave us what must've been close to 100 hours of broadcasting over the fortnight.

Tennis is popular enough that there are courses all over my city but not popular enough that I have to wait very long for them...tennis equipment can be purchased all over the place...most importanly balls are plentiful and cheap...the sport remains a very low-cost recreation, especially when compared to golf. If the result of tennis matching golf's popularity would be the establishment of something akin to $100 greens fees then I'm all for tennis staying reasonably unpopular.

The one real downside I see for the sport's ugly stepsister status is the great difficulty that pros ranked oh somewhere between 150 and 500 must have in trying to sustain their careers. Compare this with the 7-figure salaries that the 150th best football, baseball, hockey, basketball players make and it really seems unfair. Yeah I know that the 150th best tennis player simply doesn't generate a lot of revenue either at the gate or on tv, but lack of finances must derail a lot of promising careers.
 
I'd disagree with that statement too. I think the "instant gratification" factor that is so prevalent in society today is one of the main reasons for golf's popularity. As I said in earlier posts, play tennis for 2 years, and your improvement is hard to measure, plus you're farther from the pros than someone who plays golf for 2 years. Golf is also percieved as more of a high-status sport. It's almost like if you play golf often, you've "made it". It doesn't take much physically(or I could argue mentally vs. tennis) to be good in golf, just look at the number of John Daly clones, lighting up every 10 minutes. I'd put it this way- golf is casual enough to be non-demanding, but still competitive enough to be widely considered a sport, and tennis is too demanding to be casual enough, and not demanding enough to stand up to the main American "sports" (it can't escape being compared to Football, baseball, basketball, etc.). I'm not sure I've worded this ideally, but I think the theory is sound.
 
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