This was a huge win by Djokovic vs. Nadal

[montrealforum]

Absolutely critical win. It finally showed that Djokovic can win the close one vs. Rafa in a very important match. It seemed Nadal always won these close matches in the past with Djokovic. ALWAYS. But this time Djok showed he is the stronger player. stronger phsycially and mentally. Now Djokovic has the edge going into clay and he will be able to win the close match with Nadal. Djokovic to win the French Open this year. Mark my words.

Words can't decribe how vitally important this win was today for Djokovic. He even broke Nadal down physically at the end, as Nadal showed he was tired, with hands on knees, but that could have been done on purpose to show an excuse, as he knew he was going to lose. because Djokovic's fine play broke his will. It took a longlong time but it appears that Djokovic has finally overcome Rafa previous mental edge and it's just a matter of time before #1 is owned by Djokovic.

 

[Forehand Avenger]

Absolutely critical win. It finally showed that Djokovic can win the close one vs. Rafa in a very important match. It seemed Nadal always won these close matches in the past with Djokovic. ALWAYS. But this time Djok showed he is the stronger player. stronger phsycially and mentally. Now Djokovic has the edge going into clay and he will be able to win the close match with Nadal. Djokovic to win the French Open this year. Mark my words.

Words can't decribe how vitally important this win was today for Djokovic. He even broke Nadal down physically at the end, as Nadal showed he was tired, with hands on knees, but that could have been done on purpose to show an excuse, as he knew he was going to lose. because Djokovic's fine play broke his will. It took a longlong time but it appears that Djokovic has finally overcome Rafa previous mental edge and it's just a matter of time before #1 is owned by Djokovic.

Djoker has shown increased mental strength as well as physical stamina. I was very impressed with him today. I still think this is a streak and soon things will fall back in place.

 

[Backhanded Compliment]

Big for Nole he might end the year at #1

Why, well Nole might win the US open this year but something tells me neither Fed nor Nadal nor Nole will win Wimby this year. This is just irrational thinking and a hunch but I think we will see a first timer? Id like it to be Roddick but it wont be.

 

[Sentinel]

Great OP.

But you think Rafa will take this lying down ???

 

[OddJack]

Not that big imo. Djoker had better HC results vs Nadal b4 this match. Now into dirt this win will soon be forgotten with Nadal beating him down if they meet..

Unless...

 

[Backhanded Compliment]

It's going to stoke Rafa for the french and wimby for sure but I think Nole just showed a lot of players how to handle Rafa at Wimbledon so it's important on other levels for the tour. We will see.

pure conjecture but it's fun... this is going to be a very different year

 

[namelessone]

It's going to stoke Rafa for the french and wimby for sure but I think Nole just showed a lot of players how to handle Rafa at Wimbledon so it's important on other levels for the tour. We will see.

pure conjecture but it's fun... this is going to be a very different year

Are you actually comparing slow HC to grass?

Yesterday's match could have been anyone's, it was down to a couple of points.

And if you wanna beat Nadal at WB you have to serve big, come in on your serves, have a good slice and major cojones and consistency.

Novak simply DID NOT MISS yesterday, he kept EVERYTHING into play and it frustrated the hell out of a very defensive Rafael Nadal. And still Nadal had chances to clinch it in the end.

 

[dave t]

^^^ that's the interesting part of nole's streak. He's clearly in the best stretch of his career but nadal (and even fed) had numerous chances to beat novak this year. To me, nadal's mistakes seemed rather uncharacteristic. 30% serving at IW?

I still need to see more...

 

[Nextman916]

At the beginning of the season, I had solidified that Nadal would at least mop up clay season this year again. But after these Djoker upsets, I think It'll at least be a lot more interesting.

 

[namelessone]

At the beginning of the season, I had solidified that Nadal would at least mop up clay season this year again. But after these Djoker upsets, I think It'll at least be a lot more interesting.

Djoker beatin Nadal on HC is not an upset. It's the norm if you look at their HC H2H.

 

[slice bh compliment]

It's going to stoke Rafa for the french and wimby for sure ...

Yes, I'm looking forward to the summer.
BTW, interesting user name there, BC. You must get a lot of compliments on it.

 

[Sentinel]

^ I always do a double take when I see that username.

 

[jack_kramer]

This is an OVERRATED win by Djokovic. If he can barely eke out a win on his best surface(by far) and best of 3, how the hell is he going to beat Nadal in best of 5 on clay and grass?

Don't fret Nadal fans - Rafa will get all the glory at RG and will surpass Borg as clay goat.

 

[MixieP]

Absolutely critical win. It finally showed that Djokovic can win the close one vs. Rafa in a very important match. It seemed Nadal always won these close matches in the past with Djokovic. ALWAYS. But this time Djok showed he is the stronger player. stronger phsycially and mentally. Now Djokovic has the edge going into clay and he will be able to win the close match with Nadal. Djokovic to win the French Open this year. Mark my words.

Words can't decribe how vitally important this win was today for Djokovic. He even broke Nadal down physically at the end, as Nadal showed he was tired, with hands on knees, but that could have been done on purpose to show an excuse, as he knew he was going to lose. because Djokovic's fine play broke his will. It took a longlong time but it appears that Djokovic has finally overcome Rafa previous mental edge and it's just a matter of time before #1 is owned by Djokovic.

I agree with everything except the words in bold. I think Rafa was in fact knackered.

 

[Sentinel]

I agree with everything except the words in bold. I think Rafa was in fact knackered.

Uncle Toni looks after his tennis schedule but who is to manage his other social and charitable obligations. I squarely blame Sir Roger for this ... all those charitable matches he organizes in order to exhaust Sir Rafa.

 

[rafan]

Whats new? Rafa did well to get to the finals at the begining of his season. Did Federer win EVERYTHING -no

 

[batz]

Good points OP - I really thought Rafa would want to send a message yesterday - I even stuck a tenner on him winning in 3. Great result for Novak. Does anyone know if he's already qualified for the WTF? I reckon he must be pretty close with those 4500 points of his.

 

[dominikk1985]

this isa very important win. nole has proved that he is better than fed and nadal right now.

the clayis a different animal.I think it will be close but nadal is still favored on clay.

 

[MixieP]

Uncle Toni looks after his tennis schedule but who is to manage his other social and charitable obligations. I squarely blame Sir Roger for this ... all those charitable matches he organizes in order to exhaust Sir Rafa.

Sir Roger is a cunning old goat; he'll get the better of Sir Rafa still. Ajde!

 

[Fiji]

Sir Roger is a cunning old goat; he'll get the better of Sir Rafa still. Ajde!

Roger is done winning majors. Deal with it.

 

[Fiji]

Big for Nole he might end the year at #1

Why, well Nole might win the US open this year but something tells me neither Fed nor Nadal nor Nole will win Wimby this year. This is just irrational thinking and a hunch but I think we will see a first timer? Id like it to be Roddick but it wont be.

Roddick is also done winning slams.

 

[Sentinel]

Roger is done winning majors. Deal with it.

I've been saying that for several years (under a plethora of usernames) but no one believes me.

fiji, i think you missed the cunning word-play in mixiep's posts. M's a Florian fan, so M doesn;t have to deal with Sir Roger's losses.

 

[urban]

Close match. But Nole will have to win 3 out of 5 on majors against Nadal, no easy task. I am not so sure, that Djokers stamina will hold, especially on clay, where Nadal finds always some magical resources.

 

[montrealforum]

Did you ever see Uncle Tony rise out of his chair like that? Uncle Tony knew this was a crucially important mental and physical battle. He knew Nadal needed this, needed to put a halt to the growing confidence of Nole. It's Nole's world now, the tennis world is his oyster.

 

[Murrayfan31]

Great thread. Crushing defeat for Nadal. Djokovic's confidence is only going to get higher. This is about the time when Federer started to dominate. Federer was about 23. Djokovic=Federer with a two-handed backhand to avoid the high ball issue.

 

[jc4.0]

I'm a huge Nole fan, but let's give Rafa his due. Rafa won against much tougher opponents on his way to the final:

Nadal beat Chardy, Nishikori, Lopez, Dlogopolov, Federer. All these are hot, up-and-coming players except for Federer, who is normally much better on HC. Federer was sadly more of a "walkover" - he just didn't show up.


Djokovic beat Istomin, Blake, Troicki, Anderson and Fish. All of these guys are inferior opponents that Nole would be expected to hammer with no problem.

 

[feetofclay]

You could look at this win from another perspective. Djokovic has beaten Nadal on seven previous occasions, on hard courts, prior to Indian Wells and Miami. In those seven wins he won in straight sets. In the last two matches Nadal took Djokovic, the inform player this year to three sets therefore you could deduce that Nadal is getting nearer to beating Djokovic.

 

[slice bh compliment]

...you could deduce that Nadal is getting nearer to beating Djokovic.

Yes, that's what Uncle Toni is deducing right now. It's probably not what Rafa was feeling as he was slumped over in his chair next to like 8 saturated t-shirts, but, yeah, as a fan of the Raf/Rog hegemony, I'm with you.

Vamos Rafa! Allez Rog!

 

[Omega_7000]

You could look at this win from another perspective. Djokovic has beaten Nadal on seven previous occasions, on hard courts, prior to Indian Wells and Miami. In those seven wins he won in straight sets. In the last two matches Nadal took Djokovic, the inform player this year to three sets therefore you could deduce that Nadal is getting nearer to beating Djokovic.

Had it not been so windy in the first set, the match would not have lasted three sets. Nadal still handles the elements of nature better than Djokovic.

 

[sureshs]

I think Djokovic will win the Calendar Slam

 

[MagneticCurls]

Djokovic is probably second best of the Fedalovic era.

 

[Sentinel]

Great thread. Crushing defeat for Nadal. Djokovic's confidence is only going to get higher. This is about the time when Federer started to dominate. Federer was about 23. Djokovic=Federer with a two-handed backhand to avoid the high ball issue.

Please, Murrayfan, don't make me cry. it's an ugly scene.

Crushing defeat for Nadal.

Was it straight sets ? I was rooting for Nole, but i somehow felt Nole escaped.

 

[MagneticCurls]

Great thread. Crushing defeat for Nadal. Djokovic's confidence is only going to get higher. This is about the time when Federer started to dominate. Federer was about 23. Djokovic=Federer with a two-handed backhand to avoid the high ball issue.

Wow, this could be true. Djokovic is lead to Nadal's kryptonite to Federer's super powers.

 

[Tennis sensation]

Djokovic=Federer

:lol:
What makes you think this?

 

[Djokovicfan4life]

I still think that Nadal has Djokovic's number in best of 5, so yeah, bring on these 3 setters.

 

[Raoul_Duke]

I'm a huge Nole fan, but let's give Rafa his due. Rafa won against much tougher opponents on his way to the final:

Nadal beat Chardy, Nishikori, Lopez, Dlogopolov, Federer. All these are hot, up-and-coming players except for Federer, who is normally much better on HC. Federer was sadly more of a "walkover" - he just didn't show up.


Djokovic beat Istomin, Blake, Troicki, Anderson and Fish. All of these guys are inferior opponents that Nole would be expected to hammer with no problem.

At this moment - all opponents are inferior to Novak

You don't have to mention them by their names :mrgreen:

 

[Sentinel]

I think Djokovic will win the Calendar Slam

Seconded.

Did you see the match ? Đoković playing is like a union of ballet and break-dance. Dance and gymnastics. Grace and fluidity. Depth and buoyancy. Stealth, touch and amazing power.

Never before have we been blessed with such a talent.

Đoković = Nadal + Federer + Safin + Nalbandian

Adje Nole !

 

[MixieP]

Yes, that's what Uncle Toni is deducing right now. It's probably not what Rafa was feeling as he was slumped over in his chair next to like 8 saturated t-shirts, but, yeah, as a fan of the Raf/Rog hegemony, I'm with you.

Vamos Rafa! Allez Rog!

A lovely sense of humour.

Ajde! (or is it "Adje"?)

 

[Murrayfan31]

I still think that Nadal has Djokovic's number in best of 5, so yeah, bring on these 3 setters.

Djokovic had way more left in the tank. Nadal was gone at the end. So physically exhausted. He had nothing left for the tiebreaker.

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

^^^ that's the interesting part of nole's streak. He's clearly in the best stretch of his career but nadal (and even fed) had numerous chances to beat novak this year. To me, nadal's mistakes seemed rather uncharacteristic. 30% serving at IW?

I still need to see more...

These types of comments or total B.S. and just another in long list of Nadal excuse-making. Nadal played pretty well; he pretty much did what he always does. It was Djoker who as off his top form. He served very poorly in the 1st and 3rd sets. He did not close well at net and in the transition game. His forehand was off for much of the match. He had major problems hitting running forehands down the line and instead went cross-court with too much top spin and not enough depth almost very opportunity he got. If he could just volley and play a better transition game he would be able to smoke Ralph on hard courts and grass. Also, I think Djoker showed that if one has the feel type game, one can cat and mouse Ralph at bit; shot slice or short angles followed by lobs other passing shots; kind of play Nastase style on some points. I've always thought is would be a great strategy against Ralph but you really have to stay with the point and be prepared to hit multiple extra balls

By the way, Federer has the same problems with the volleys and transition game vs Ralph; constantly late to net ends up hitting abbreviated ground stokes from the net instead of drive volleys.

By the way, I think Sampras would have destroyed Ralph on fast hardcourts and grass precisely because of his DTL FH, Volleys, transition game.

 

[Dilettante]

Was it straight sets ? I was rooting for Nole, but i somehow felt Nole escaped.

I wouldn't say he escaped but it was a close match, could have gone either way. Sure, the guy who said it was a "crushing defeat" makes no sense.

Djokovic's mental game has improved a lot. He showed this level of play before (although not in such long streak) so is no surprise he can play that good. But now he's showing he can fight against the ultimate fighters and that is indeed new. Also, I thought Nadal was slightly mentally touched yesterday, like if he was more nervous than usual. Kind of what happened to Federer with him.

Anyway, I'm still wondering if Djokovic can take this kind of mental fight to a fifth set in front of Nadal, in case it happens. Nadal is more of a clutch player than Djokovic, I think.

 

[CCNM]

Nice to see somebody challenging Rafa.

 

[CDestroyer]

Djokovic had way more left in the tank. Nadal was gone at the end. So physically exhausted. He had nothing left for the tiebreaker.

You really think he had nothing left in the tank for the tie breaker? He was outplayed.Nadal outlasts people in 5 setters. He usually doesn't have to play that long but I just wanted to point out that he was outplayed rather than tired.

 

[MixieP]

Was it straight sets ? I was rooting for Nole, but i somehow felt Nole escaped.

Rafa had his chances. It wasn't far away at all because he really had him going. I guess he escaped. I guess confidence is a big thing for him at the moment.

 

[namelessone]

I wouldn't say he escaped but it was a close match, could have gone either way. Sure, the guy who said it was a "crushing defeat" makes no sense.

Djokovic's mental game has improved a lot. He showed this level of play before (although not in such long streak) so is no surprise he can play that good. But now he's showing he can fight against the ultimate fighters and that is indeed new. Also, I thought Nadal was slightly mentally touched yesterday, like if he was more nervous than usual. Kind of what happened to Federer with him.

Anyway, I'm still wondering if Djokovic can take this kind of mental fight to a fifth set in front of Nadal, in case it happens. Nadal is more of a clutch player than Djokovic, I think.

This ALWAYS happens to Rafa when he can't move people around, especially on HC. Djoker was literally bringing everything back and with interest and ,outside of some wonky returning on Rafa's service games, was making very few UE. He wasn't letting Rafa do anything to him on the baseline and was putting pressure on Rafa's second serves.

The only way Rafa could have escaped defeat was if he had actually done something with Novak's second serves.

Novak won 71% of his second serves, Rafa 45%. This was the key of the match.

It's a bit sad for Rafa. In IW, he generally had a better ground game but his serve deserted him in the final. Here he wasn't terrific on the baseline(especially BH side) but was more solid on serve. Still wasn't enough.

 

[namelessone]

Rafa had his chances. It wasn't far away at all because he really had him going. I guess he escaped. I guess confidence is a big thing for him at the moment.

It is for all players.

 

[Dilettante]

This ALWAYS happens to Rafa when he can't move people around, especially on HC.

I don't really agree. It happened to Rafa with the kind of flat hitters he always had trouble with, and not always, just in certain matches he was losing without not many chances of recovering and she seemed rightly annoyed or sad. Also it's usual to see Nadal starting a bit out of focus in many matches, he's kinda slow starter and it's not unusual to see him losing a first set or at least losing a number of games at the start.

But I don't think I've seen Nadal that nervous in late stages of a match he had good chances of winning, as yesterday. He's a clutch player, that's one of his main traits and he's known for that. Maybe, and now I'm just making a hypothesis here, he was a bit intimidated by Djokovic's streak, or by the perceived importance of having to prove he's the #1, or something like that.

It wouldn't be strange, it's what happened to Federer when Nadal got into his head. In Federer's prime, I never saw Roger so intimidated against any other player. Now I think I saw this in Nadal. I could be wrong though.

 

[namelessone]

I don't really agree. It happened to Rafa with the kind of flat hitters he always had trouble with, and not always, just in certain matches he was losing without not many chances of recovering and she seemed rightly annoyed or sad. Also it's usual to see Nadal starting a bit out of focus in many matches, he's kinda slow starter and it's not unusual to see him losing a first set or at least losing a number of games at the start.

But I don't think I've seen Nadal that nervous in late stages of a match he had good chances of winning, as yesterday. He's a clutch player, that's one of his main traits and he's known for that. Maybe, and now I'm just making a hypothesis here, he was a bit intimidated by Djokovic's streak, or by the perceived importance of having to prove he's the #1, or something like that.

It wouldn't be strange, it's what happened to Federer when Nadal got into his head. In Federer's prime, I never saw Roger so intimidated against any other player. Now I think I saw this in Nadal. I could be wrong though.

I would agree if not for the example of Davydenko. Rafa always looks flustered against the russian's gameplan and has the same defeated look once he gets a foothold in the match only to let it go. Remember, Rafa lost a final to Davy after BAGELING him and arguably playing better than yesterday against Djoker. And davydenko isn't gunning for nr.1 spot.

Rafa did not look flustered at all yesterday for like a set, even though he was playing average tennis as well. He only started to look like that once Djoker brought EVERYTHING in. I was staring at the screen at times and it was like Nadal from 2005 on clay, NOTHING was getting past Djoker past both wings. Nadal is human and this affected him. When you have to play 20+ just to get a point, it messes with your head. Couple that with some parts of the Nadal game that did not work(like his BH ROS which was dreadful) and you can see how you lose your cool.

Remember what happened in IW. Rafa was simply dominating off the ground, playing much better tennis that in yesterday's first set and then his serve faultered. His whole game was thrown by this, including his mental ability. Nadal said that all he could think of from the 2nd set onwards was getting a first serve in.

The point I am trying to make is that Djoker isn't doing some kind of special mental pshyche out to Rafa, he is doing what top guys do to him on HC, keep him in the back of the court and make him doubt his game. Rafa gets more defensive, passive and being bullied around makes his mental ability go down.

Rafa needs to be near perfect on most aspects of his game to win HC titles or top matches against HC foes. Remember USO 2010 final. He can win clay on grass with his B game but that does not work on HC. This by now is pretty clear.

If you wanna look at nervousness, look at Rafa in the Berdych match or against Karlovic, even if those weren't in finals.

Also Rafa is starting to have second set dips just like Fed.

 

[Backhanded Compliment]

S-BH-C I only get Backhanded Compliments or compliments on my backhand. Honestly I was surprised nobody else had it... it's a common phrase.

As for slow hard cours vs Wimby equation... only in a loose sense. During the second week wimby does slow down but mostly it gives other players hope when they see a chink in a dominant player's armor.

Overall, I wont deal in absolutes and these boards are just rampant conjecture.

As for Nole, he beat Nadal squarely... If it had been a 5 set format he likely could have won it in 4, Nadal didnt really seem to be on fire in that tie breaker though he was tough getting to that point.

 

[TheTruth]

Djoker beatin Nadal on HC is not an upset. It's the norm if you look at their HC H2H.

That's what I thought.

Anyway, I don't worry about the hc or the h2h. Rafa's still 8-0 vs. Nole on other surfaces. It wouldn't be a big deal if he chipped into that as well.

Such is life.