This year on HC

Gary Duane

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic 88/33 121 Ranking # 1
:::::: HC: 89/34 123
Federer 91/26 116 Ranking # 2
:::::: HC: 90/27 117
Nadal 85/35 120 Ranking # 3
:::::: HC 86/30 116
Berdych 86/25 111 Ranking # 7
:::::: HC: 88/26 114
Murray 81/32, 113 Ranking # 6
:::::: HC: 81/32 113
Nishikori 85/28 113 Ranking # 5
:::::: HC: 83/28 110
Ferrer 79/33 112 Ranking # 10
:::::: HC: 79/31 110
Wawrinka 86/22 108 Ranking # 4
:::::: HC: 85/23 109 ----------------------------AO
Cilic 85/22 107 Ranking # 9
:::::: HC: 86/22 108 ----------------------------------- USO
 
Last edited:
I expected the biggest correlation between ranking these numbers on HC because more matches are played on HC each year than other surfaces.

Only #8, Raonic, is missing from the top 10. The order is a bit different, but not much. It also shows that Nadal, even though he has been absent so much, still shows up in the top 3.

I'm surprised and also rather excited that the numbers correlated so well. To me this shows that slams alone don't show as much as slams and Masters 1000s. It also suggests to me that the ATP ranking system works very well, usually.
 
Drop a legend for the laymen like myself, mate. I assume that is serve and return stats?
Yes, the same in the other figures I posted for clay. :)

Sorry to be unclear. It's late, and I'm thinking it through.

Feedback would be welcome!

Edit: First line is % service games + % return games on all surfaces, then specifically the same stats for one surface only.
 
Federer still holding 91% of service games? Great. His return puts him down these days.
Fed held 95% of his games this year on grass. But he only returned 22%, which for most players would be great.

In 2006 he held 94%, which is almost as good, and he returned 30%. So yes, his return in 2014 was way down, but only for Fed
 
Taking your list, Gary, and adding another detail, matches played.

Djokovic 88/33 121 Ranking # 1 (61-8 )
:::::: HC: 89/34 123
Federer 91/26 116 Ranking # 2 (73-12)
:::::: HC: 90/27 117
Nadal 85/35 120 Ranking # 3 (48-11)
:::::: HC 86/30 116
Berdych 86/25 111 Ranking # 7 (55-22)
:::::: HC: 88/26 114
Murray 81/32, 113 Ranking # 6 (59-20)
:::::: HC: 81/32 113
Nishikori 85/28 113 Ranking # 5 (54-14)
:::::: HC: 86/22 110
Ferrer 79/33 112 Ranking # 10 (54-24)
:::::: HC: 79/31 110
Cilic 85/22 109 Ranking # 9 (54-21)
:::::: HC: 86/22 110 ----------------------------------- USO
Wawrinka 86/22 108 Ranking # 4 (39-17)
:::::: HC: 85/23 109 ----------------------------AO

Matches played would read like this:
1. Federer 85
2. Murray 79
3. Ferrer 78
4. Berdych 77
5. Cilic 75
6. Djokovic 69
7. Nishikori 68
8. Nadal 59
9. Wawrinka 56

What we glean from this is unclear as of yet but we know Ferrer and Murray spent a large part of their matches played in tournaments where they knew they wouldn't have to face Djokovic or Federer. Would this have affected your statistical analysis to a significant extent? I am not sure. It does show that Federer had a fantastic year on serve.
 
Taking your list, Gary, and adding another detail, matches played.

Djokovic 88/33 121 Ranking # 1 (61-8 )
:::::: HC: 89/34 123
Federer 91/26 116 Ranking # 2 (73-12)
:::::: HC: 90/27 117
Nadal 85/35 120 Ranking # 3 (48-11)
:::::: HC 86/30 116
Berdych 86/25 111 Ranking # 7 (55-22)
:::::: HC: 88/26 114
Murray 81/32, 113 Ranking # 6 (59-20)
:::::: HC: 81/32 113
Nishikori 85/28 113 Ranking # 5 (54-14)
:::::: HC: 86/22 110
Ferrer 79/33 112 Ranking # 10 (54-24)
:::::: HC: 79/31 110
Cilic 85/22 109 Ranking # 9 (54-21)
:::::: HC: 86/22 110 ----------------------------------- USO
Wawrinka 86/22 108 Ranking # 4 (39-17)
:::::: HC: 85/23 109 ----------------------------AO

Matches played would read like this:
1. Federer 85
2. Murray 79
3. Ferrer 78
4. Berdych 77
5. Cilic 75
6. Djokovic 69
7. Nishikori 68
8. Nadal 59
9. Wawrinka 56

What we glean from this is unclear as of yet but we know Ferrer and Murray spent a large part of their matches played in tournaments where they knew they wouldn't have to face Djokovic or Federer. Would this have affected your statistical analysis to a significant extent? I am not sure. It does show that Federer had a fantastic year on serve.
I haven't really done any analysis, Russel. I simply compiled a list going back to when the ATP starting keep records. I really don't think this shows anything that should not be obvious. I'm not sure yet.

It seems to me that the best players in the world should be winning by the biggest margins, and adding the percentages together correlates with what the scores would be.

200 would be winning every game. Every set would be a bagel.

100 is breaking even. It should mean being pretty close to winning and losing about the same amount.

It turns out that 120 on any surface is very VERY good. For the most part the scores will be around the same on all surfaces, because return percentage goes down on fast surfaces, but service game percentages go up.

I believe the margins are smaller on the fastest surfaces. But generally anything between 120 and 130 means #1 in the world and a slam winner AND a player is in God-mode that year.

Examples:

Fed was 130 on grass for the year in 2004. 121 on HC was world class, and he own AO and USO with that. 118 that year on clay should have been good enough to get the FO and thus a grand slam, but Gaudio stole it that year.

In 2006 Fed was 124 on grass, won Wimbledon, 123 on HC and won the AO and USO again. He was 118 on clay, VERY good, but Nadal was at 126 and took the FO.

It's not just Fed and Nadal. The same thing goes back to 1991. There are always exceptions, but when people with much lower scores win slams, they are not also at the very top. About the highest you see there is someone unexpected wins slam then gets pushed up to around #5 or #4, as happened to Waw last year. So far none of these dark horses has repeated with both another slam and a very high ranking. That's why I don't expect to see another slam from Cilic or Waw.
 
Djokovic 88/33 121 Ranking # 1
:::::: HC: 89/34 123 61/69 = .88
Federer 91/26 116 Ranking # 2
:::::: HC: 90/27 117 73/85 = .86
Nadal 85/35 120 Ranking # 3
:::::: HC 86/30 116 48/59 = .81
Berdych 86/25 111 Ranking # 7
:::::: HC: 88/26 114 55/77 = .71
Murray 81/32, 113 Ranking # 6
:::::: HC: 81/32 113 59/79 = .75
Nishikori 85/28 113 Ranking # 5
:::::: HC: 83/28 111 54/68 = .79
Ferrer 79/33 112 Ranking # 10
:::::: HC: 79/31 110 54/78 = .69
Wawrinka 86/22 108 Ranking # 4
:::::: HC: 85/23 109 39/56 = .70 ----------------------------------- AO
Cilic 85/22 107 Ranking # 9
:::::: HC: 86/22 108 54/75 = .72 ----------------------------------- USO





Adding win/loss information from Russel Jones.
 
Last edited:
Berdych is the biggest surprise to me. I'm going to double-check my data. With his stats he should have won more. I can only surmise that he is a steady player who simply chokes a lot, which is sort of my impression any way.

The biggest positive surprise for me is to see that the stats held for Nadal, in spite of his absence.

Wawrinka was close to dead last out of the top 10, by a hair, in winning percentage. He was #9 in percentage of games won on HC.

This does not surprise me much at all. My personal feeling is that he has been one of our weakest grand slam champions, and I don't expect him to ever win another slam on any surface.
 
Does anyone serious still tries to question Djokovic's utter and undisputed domination?
On what surface?

He was best on HC this year in terms of margins, but Cilic and Waw are two of the weakest HC slam winners in some time. And Fed's margins were better on grass.

You can see he was unlucky on HCs, but he was very lucky on grass.

And Nadal was way better on grass, as usual.

Nothing like 2011. He's aging, like all the rest of the former "Big Four". They are all past their peaks. He is just less past his peak than the others.
 
Interesting and thought provoking analysis gentlemen.
 
Back
Top