Dragy
G.O.A.T.
You are a black-or-white guy, aren’t you?
Those top juniors sure do crush the ball don't they
- Thread starter FiReFTW
- Start date
KG32
Rookie
Nah, I’m just allergic to nonsense gear talk while totally ignoring years of hard work and the enormous gap in technique between juniors and rec adults.
And yes, it’s possible I tend to be a black or white guy when I read certain posts and I certainly overreact a lot, that’s why I’m leaving the forum
Dragy
G.O.A.T.
You know there’re various aspects to anything, and I know no one who wouldn’t consider years of hard work etc., no way deny it. But making a post on a forum we tend to bring up just one or two things our brain got occupied with at a moment. Covering and grading every aspect would make it an article if not a book
Actually the youngsters’ gear was brought up earlier in the thread, where someone told they are crushing the ball with light sticks. I personally find the “mine is very light ... 11.7oz” story to be relevant and interesting. I also agree that’s not the gear which is crucial, it’s just a bit tangent discussion covering how “light modern frames users” are such compared to older pros, not to the rec crowd.
KG32
Rookie
You know there’re various aspects to anything, and I know no one who wouldn’t consider years of hard work etc., no way deny it. But making a post on a forum we tend to bring up just one or two things our brain got occupied with at a moment. Covering and grading every aspect would make it an article if not a book
Actually the youngsters’ gear was brought up earlier in the thread, where someone told they are crushing the ball with light sticks. I personally find the “mine is very light ... 11.7oz” story to be relevant and interesting. I also agree that’s not the gear which is crucial, it’s just a bit tangent discussion covering how “light modern frames users” are such compared to older pros, not to the rec crowd.
Yeah, you’re probably right about the first part.
As far as racquets go, I don’t wanna start yet another discussion, but an interesting point would be how little pros really care about gear details and how little it really matters in the long run compared to literally almost every other aspect (hence my first post)
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
Some pros are extremely meticulous with their gear, strings, tension etc.
Sampras was notorious for being very particular about his rackets.
And Fed selects his string tension based on the particular conditions, I think he typically brings 3 different tensions to a match...
Other pros are constantly tinkering with gear details - racket size, string pattern, weight, etc. See Dimitrov for example...
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Oh I see ... So for you, the racket is either "the least significant factor" or "the most important factor", you're only given two choices?
Kinda like my pet dogs, they only two choices, eat their pet food or starve. LOL.
I'm no animal. I have many choices and variations.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Totally right! It's an illusion when Federer changes racket after specific x games. Pros don't care who strings their rackets or whatever tensions. Nadal is totally relaxed. He switches to new rackets every year. Never seen any pros walking up to umpires and complaining about balls being differently inflated. They don't care. They're pros!
Dragy
G.O.A.T.
This is just plain wrong. Not a single top pro plays with anything out of pro ballpark. Most of pros care the hell for keeping exactly same stick for years, even if it’s something like Nole’s weird thing. Roger went through a long period to figure out the proper stick since his old choice wasn’t holding the new challenges. You shouldn’t start a new discussion, it’s pretty obvious most successful pros address every aspect to achieve best performance.
FiReFTW
Legend
Im not saying certain racquets or string combos or whatever dont optimize someones strokes and shots, but this thread is about the main reasons that they hit such powerful heavy shots and equipment is surely not one of the main reasons.
Federer would hit a much heavier shot than anyone here with a 85inch racquet with the cheapest strings in the world.
Theres also alot of juniors with stock wilson blades and babolats and so on and can hit heavy powerful balls with any racquet.
Infact wasnt jolly the one that hit 125mph serves with a wooden racquet.
Federer would hit a much heavier shot than anyone here with a 85inch racquet with the cheapest strings in the world.
Theres also alot of juniors with stock wilson blades and babolats and so on and can hit heavy powerful balls with any racquet.
Infact wasnt jolly the one that hit 125mph serves with a wooden racquet.
KG32
Rookie
I didn’t mean that at all, what I wanted to point out is the contrast between how rec players care about gear and nothing else and how they think what pros do.
bitcoinoperated
Hall of Fame
Imo it is taking the ball early and relaxation
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Most rec players care substantially less about their gear than you might think. They just buy whatever Nadal or Federer are endorsing or whatever the club pro suggests and go with it. If it swings easy and hits the ball hard, they are sold. That's why the rec world is full of PD's, PA's, ProStaffs and Ultras.
For every one guy that's a gear head at my club there is another 10 that couldn't tell you their string type or tension.
This forum represents a very small and non-representative sample of rec tennis players.
And really what the pros care most about from the gear they play is: "Who's paying?"
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
That's the problem of being on these boards too much. Way too many people here endlessly obsess over gear, but that's not at all a representative sample of the tennis playing population
But pros do care more than you are making it seem like... If they find a racquet they like, they'll rarely change it so the pro tour is littered with pros playing with paintjobs of the latest stuff their endorser is trying to sell
surely you cannot be serious.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
They are still playing a racquet produced by the company that sponsors them. Not a lot of Pure Aero's hiding under Wilson Blade paint jobs.
Generally they play models with specs they liked in juniors and college and get their new sponsor to modify the racquet to similar specs. It's a lot more about familiarity (and superstition sometimes) than trying to find the best frame. Play with what you know and are comfortable with.
For instance, Denis Shapovaloc played Wilson pro Staffs in juniors and switched to Yonex when they offered him more money than Wilson. But he still played with a Yonex frame that had similar specs to his old Wilson. What he didn't do was get them to paint a VCORE PJ over a Wilson PS.
The best example is to look at the Spanish style of teaching that has carried over to the rest of the tennis world over the last decade. That style of teaching emphasizes high racquet head speed generate by aggressive vertical drive with the legs and big coil, aggressive core rotation. This style originated on the clay courts where you had to be offensive by hitting heavy spin to create angles to open up the court given that the big serve followed by big forehand was less of a weapon on clay. Now that hard courts have slowed down (and even the grass at Wimbledon) that 'Spanish style' of play with spin and angles is relevant on surfaces other than clay. Check out the spanish style drills on youtube, there are a bunch and they are geared toward swinging really fast, using a lot of legs and crushing the ball with heavy spin. Most of the drills are done with hand feeds and rapid hitting. I've tried it and it's brutal but effective.
You guys are nuts. Just go ask some of the juniors at your club what kind of racquets they're using. Some have 320 gram racquets some have 360 gram racquets. Some are more head light and some are more head heavy.
They hit the ball hard because they are athletic, fit, have great timing and use their entire body (especially the legs).
They hit the ball hard because they are athletic, fit, have great timing and use their entire body (especially the legs).
FiReFTW
Legend
Well said.
It takes alot of hard work and many years to build a very solid stroke where ur using ur whole body, where your balanced from start to finish, where ur swing technique is solid, and where you can use the most of all these things from various positions and hard situations on the run etc.
pencilcheck
Hall of Fame
Of course they are athletic, and fit, but not all people athletic and fit can hit hard with good topspin and pace consistently.
I'm not sure but here are my guesses
1. They have better form where instead of moving backwards, they move forward and never make an exception of that (or try not to)
2. They have grip structure that works for them, so it would be steady and strong when they needed the most
3. Of course the right way to generate pace, not just about the kinetic chain but everything about it is optimized (e.g. how the finger, arm muscle is used to the back, lats, and the hips and legs etc)
4. And lots and lots of practices
5. Talents, height and arm length
I'm not sure but here are my guesses
1. They have better form where instead of moving backwards, they move forward and never make an exception of that (or try not to)
2. They have grip structure that works for them, so it would be steady and strong when they needed the most
3. Of course the right way to generate pace, not just about the kinetic chain but everything about it is optimized (e.g. how the finger, arm muscle is used to the back, lats, and the hips and legs etc)
4. And lots and lots of practices
5. Talents, height and arm length
Dragy
G.O.A.T.
Even if we skip the control and timing part, you’ll definitely go very far with pace/spin trade off with 30oz frame. Every extra piece or RHS will give you even more power, so you won’t find any balance point to consistently produce big shots. The benefit of using conventional mass for the racquet is associated with being able to achieve efficient speed/spin balance with max RHS.
IMO it's about using 100% of what you have. Lots of rec players don't use their legs or turn their shoulders much. On top of this they might also have tenseness and hitches so it looks like they're driving around while applying the parking brake relatively speaking. I know, because I've watched video of myself 
, and if I do swing as fast as I can the ball won't go in enough.
, and if I do swing as fast as I can the ball won't go in enough.
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user92626
G.O.A.T.
The control and timing part is for each individual to figure out. It's different for everyone. I don't wanna bring it up here to risk confusion.
OK, so basically the heavier the racket is, (at the same speed) the better the shot you'll get, right? Then, it stands to reason that in this department one needs to work out and obtain strength if he wanna improve his shots.
Dragy
G.O.A.T.
I don’t think so. Moving to heavier racquet one would loose the good speed/spin ratio for the ball. At some point you either struggle to produce same RHS, or you produce too much ball speed at the same spin rate (less likely outcome the heavier you go). The key factor making the mid-300g sticks performing the best for good players is good balance of speed and spin achieved at high RHS. Poly strings helps as well.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Why or how would you lose the good speed/spin ratio?
Why would you struggle to produce same RHS?
Dragy
G.O.A.T.
If the racquet is heavier, it takes more to speed it up to same level. Even if you manage to produce same RHS, and with same swingpath and racquet face angle - same spin, the ball speed off a (significantly) heavier racquet will be higher, and what was good RPM to shape a slower ball now isn’t enough to reliably get it both over the net and inside the lines.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
"it takes more to speed it up" ----- "it" in this case is strength, right?
Wouldn't "good rpm" "racket face" etc fall under control which I already said each individual has to work out on his own?
Dragy
G.O.A.T.
Control is an uncertain term if you use it in such a way. It’s certain if you use it as ability to swing your racquet through intended path and hit the ball with the stringbed center at the intended spot.
If you consider reasonable range of racquet masses, like 300-400g, it falls under “individual” method. If you go well beyond that ballpark you face the issues I described: inability to achieve good speed/spin balance with high RHS, and therefore weaker strokes than one’s possible with a proper racquet.
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