so you weren't having arm issues before you switched from the pd? Why did you switch racquets then? If I were coaching you I would not have done that unless there was a good reason. Most competitive players do not like to switch and have a setup they are not used to in a match. It sounds like your arm was ok before you switched to something else. I see plenty of good competitive juniors using the babolat. I doubt they are all having arm problems. You need to demo it .
Thoughts about "un-arm friendly racquets"
- Thread starter Bobo96
- Start date
I was using babolat racquets till I was about 13 or 14. I'm almost 18 now, and my first serious arm problems started in June of this year, so it's hard to compare to when I was younger. I hit harder, play more physically, and practice a lot more. I was going to try an aeropro because of the suggestions from friends and family, because I was thinking exactly what you said. Many juniors/college players/ pros are using it with no issues. Most of the juniors are much weaker and usually worse technique than me. However, after posting this thread I'm on the fence, most people say they are the worst racquets for the arm, so idk I'm just confused now, I just want to make the best decision for my arm and future success.
mhkeuns
Hall of Fame
I have elbow issues from trying out too many racquets. Though I settled on a racquet, it's too heavy for my arm's current condition. I've been using the APD, and it has helped my elbow issue. IDK... It really doesn't feel harsh, and my arm's been hurting less. I hope my arm doesn't fall off all of a sudden. I think someone has mentioned that because the APD is stiff but feels somewhat plush, the users don't notice the arm being damaged until it's about to fall off... Hope it's not true...
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't like racquets with RDC over 69 but TE is usually technique related as mentioned but I know someone who said he fixed his TE by building up his grip(much bigger) and a adding a lot of led tape to his racquet.
Mhkeuns, I feel the same way, i hit with a APD for 5 minutes, and it felt like it would be good for the arm, but I was worried that was just the illusion of the power. my TE was sore for the first time since it healed like two days after using it, but I don't know for sure if that is why. I also tried multiple wilsons that day. My friend who is a little older than me claims that aeropro has always been good for his arm, but says that it hurts sometimes when he uses wilson racquets, or even a few racquets that are known for their arm friendliness. Idk, I'm oh so confused right now. The phys therapist said that a big part was my lack of flexibility in my lower body, I know that may be what caused it, but I still want to use a racquet that will be nice to it.
BlueB
Legend
Man this thread is a bit funny...
Basically, you'd like to hear that Babs are great for the arm, as you want to play with one, because friends and family told you so and it is "in" brand to play with.
Heal your arm properly, then make a careful comeback. Play with the racquet that has the best spec for your swing, allowing you to hit in front and with proper technique. Don't string too tight. Try to pick from proven arm friendly models.
If you must play with a Bab, at least pick a Pure Storm.
Basically, you'd like to hear that Babs are great for the arm, as you want to play with one, because friends and family told you so and it is "in" brand to play with.
Heal your arm properly, then make a careful comeback. Play with the racquet that has the best spec for your swing, allowing you to hit in front and with proper technique. Don't string too tight. Try to pick from proven arm friendly models.
If you must play with a Bab, at least pick a Pure Storm.
I am not dying to play with a Bab, I am just frustrated, and was looking for some answers. It seems like everyone has a different opinion sometimes, and it gets hard to differentiate the truth from the garbage. I don't care what racquet I use if I can play well and stay healthy. anyways thanks everyone for the help. Peace out!
You were right , until the last sentence.
15 hours a week for 4 years. That is how much my 15 year old son has used the pdr. NO arm problems or complaints of how the racquet feels. You should ask people who have actually used this racquet in match play. Not someone who picked it up once and didn't like it. You have to demo it your self to see if it actually hurts your arm.
We demoed the pure storm too. Didn't like it because the frame was too light in the head so hard to keep the ball deep. It felt harsh in the throat area because of no cortex. That one would hurt your arm because it was too hard to keep the ball deep unless you leaded it up which I don't like to do because it is too much of a hassle. The trend is toward 100 square inch head and low tension poly. In a match you will be outgunned otherwise.
This is the same BS from the other thread where you have been getting smacked down.
First and foremost, there are quite a few people on here who know what they are talking about (SpintoWin, Muppet, mikelers, Jo11lyRoger, etc.). You've already been smacked down by a few of them. I don't see why you keep promoting the nonsense that your racquet (a Babolat with the "magical" cortex) is arm-friendly. Simply put, it isn't. Just because some people who play with Babolats don't have arm issues doesn't make them arm-friendly. All of the literature regarding arm-friendly racquets list criteria that are pretty much polar opposite to Babolat specs. The only outlier is for the PDR and the only arm-friend characteristic that it has is mass.
OP, stiff racquets with stiff strings are NOT good for your arm. That doesn't mean that they will hurt your arm, but they won't help it under any circumstances. Stringing lower helps but a stiff frame and poly still equals a lot of stress on the arm.
Please be prudent in dealing with your injury. Work on technique first with an arm-friendly frame. Choose something moderately heavy 11.5-12.1 oz with a moderate stiffness and a SW from 320-330. Choose something with a moderate flex and a fairly open pattern and with a HL balance. This will be your best option for arm health. Notice that Babolats don't fit those criteria. That's because they aren't designed to be arm-friendly. They are designed to offer certain performance characteristics which they do very well.
I no longer have an injury since using the pdr. As far as getting smacked down I think I have exposed an unfair bias towards babolat and I have just as much experience as anyone on here. But thank you for your kind advise.
There's actually very literature regarding racket specifications and tennis elbow. Most of what has been propagated is simply conjecture and myth. I'd love to see literature if anyone has some.
In the meantime, here's s link to a NYTimes that references a small study for TE relief
In the meantime, here's s link to a NYTimes that references a small study for TE relief
BlueB
Legend
To the best of my knowledge, Cortex is just a piece of plastic on the throat. There were several reports of people who lost it or removed it and the frame played the same. Has very little, if anything to do with frame feel or playability.
Keeping the ball deep has mostly to do with how you swing. Certain racquets or string combos have lover launch angles. If the ball goes short, you aim a bit higher.
There are tons of anecdotal and scientific data that Storm is arm friendlier then Drive. It is just brutal that you just keep convincing the OP the opposite. He's injured, he needs to get well and then make all the precautions that it doesn't come back. Playing with a frame that suits his swing is paramount, but combined with a frame (and string setup) that is arm friendly. Doing one without other might just not be enough.
sorry, not been my experience. I told him to demo it. He injured his arm on something else not babolat. Well, we are off to practice with our sucky pdr for the tournament this weekend. Have a good day.
Sorry here's the link:http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/phys-ed-an-easy-fix-for-tennis-elbow/
thanks do you think it would help for both tennis and golfers elbow, assuming I do the golfers elbow exercise as well, or would that cancel out as I heard one personal trainer say?
My son won another tournament this weekend with the pdr. No arm pain. He has used it for 4 years so all your BS about it being too stiff, vibrating too much and so on is wrong. But keep swinging those buttery soft Wilsons and listening to all the misinformation on this forum. Have a nice day.
mikeler
Moderator
A young arm may be perfectly fine with stiff strings and stiff frames.
FOR THE LAST TIME. NO ONE IS SAYING THAT THE PDR HURTS YOUR SON'S ARM OR YOUR ARM!
What everyone is saying is that PD's, PDR's, and APD's are NOT arm-friendly frames. There are a million threads about "I use a (insert your choice PD, PDR, APD) and now my arm is hurt. What can I do to continue using this frame and not have TE?"
There's a reason for that. The frames are not arm-friendly. Especially when strung with poly. Hell, TW even has a warning in the description for buyers that all but says these frames will hurt your arms if you string them with poly at more than 54 lbs.
TobyTopspin
Professional
I've owned every PD and APD model made. They are not my main stick, but I do use them from time to time. I used the APD exclusively for about 6 months before swithcing to the Strike. My wife is a big time Babolat proponent and I've had nothing but great things to say about their customer support.
So here's my take on the arm safety thing. First, I believe Mikeler is correct about your son's young arm having an easier time with the stiffness. Second, I've never had any arm problems with any of the Babolats. I think that players mis-use them. The PD and APD have so much free power that I see people that use them tend to over swing a lot of the time. They use these crazy off balance swings that no matter what racquet they use, they will be some type of injury. If you find someone who takes and nice controllable swing they are less likely to have issues. That said, I do feel that the PD, APD and other stiffer flexed racquets do produce more strain on the arm, but I find them comfortable with a soft string.
That's not a Babolat problem. All manufactures produce frames with similar specs now days and for good reason. They work! They make the game easier. String a PD with BBO (one of the stiffest polys) at 40 lbs and you will get a nice soft comfortable stick that is capable of doing major damage to an opponent. String it at 60 lbs and the hit is much harsher. The same could be said for all racquets. The trend of stringing lower is helping, but most of the people I play in tournaments or leagues are still using poly at too high of a tension.
So here's my take on the arm safety thing. First, I believe Mikeler is correct about your son's young arm having an easier time with the stiffness. Second, I've never had any arm problems with any of the Babolats. I think that players mis-use them. The PD and APD have so much free power that I see people that use them tend to over swing a lot of the time. They use these crazy off balance swings that no matter what racquet they use, they will be some type of injury. If you find someone who takes and nice controllable swing they are less likely to have issues. That said, I do feel that the PD, APD and other stiffer flexed racquets do produce more strain on the arm, but I find them comfortable with a soft string.
That's not a Babolat problem. All manufactures produce frames with similar specs now days and for good reason. They work! They make the game easier. String a PD with BBO (one of the stiffest polys) at 40 lbs and you will get a nice soft comfortable stick that is capable of doing major damage to an opponent. String it at 60 lbs and the hit is much harsher. The same could be said for all racquets. The trend of stringing lower is helping, but most of the people I play in tournaments or leagues are still using poly at too high of a tension.
fuzz nation
G.O.A.T.
Not a big surprise that the PDR was the more comfortable option. Some years ago I was using the Wilson 6.1 Classic, which was quite stiff, but also rather heavy (maybe 12.8 oz.). It never gave my arm any issues, even when strung with 17 ga. syn. gut up at 64 lbs. It's hard to know whether the steadiness of the heavier frame was the more arm-friendly factor for me or perhaps the extra power at the ready allowed me to hit harder when I wanted to without over-swinging.
Another arm-friendly factor that's not easy to quantify is the general "fit" we enjoy with one frame or another. When I have it, it's easier for me to swing naturally and consistently catch the ball in the heart of my string bed. Too many demos in a short time can be a little rough because I'll play with at least a couple of options that don't have that decent fit. Suffering lots of consecutive mishits with any racquet is bound to make an arm more grumpy.
A tennis pal of mine played a couple years on a college team and he has a very strong game. He has enjoyed the PDR's for several years now and he even ran into a sidelining case of full blown tennis elbow while using them a couple years ago. The injury happened after he switched into a poly hybrid in these frames that already gave him that decent fit.
After several weeks off where he got some therapy and did some exercises to help his recovery, he came back to the courts, but took the precaution of switching to natural gut in those same PDR's. No new symptoms... zero... not a one. My verdict? Any racquet should be substantially easier on the arm with a softer string setup. Regardless of weight or stiffness, I believe that softer strings are the number one priority for getting a more arm-friendly ride with any frame.
As for the various experiences that our pals share around here, I think that these reinforce the reality that some of us are simply more susceptible to arm irritation or injury than others. The trouble is that we only find this out for ourselves after we run into trouble.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Is your son over 40 years old?
"Note: Due to racquet stiffness, when stringing with a polyester or co-polyester, we highly suggest 54lbs s a starting point for tension"
In other words, this racquet is not arm-friendly and the combination of a stiff string and this racquet will wreck your arm.
Guess which frames have this disclaimer right on their description at TW.
In other words, this racquet is not arm-friendly and the combination of a stiff string and this racquet will wreck your arm.
Guess which frames have this disclaimer right on their description at TW.
Salted or unsalted butter Wilson?
BlueB
Legend
This is pretty high level of trolling... So sad...
Good for your son, congrats. That still doesn't prove the PDR is a very arm friendly frame. It only proves it is a good fit for your son's game.
A
Attila_the_gorilla
Guest
Every racket on the market can hurt our arm of can be arm-friendly. Depends on strings and tensions.
The problem with some of the extra stiff rackets is that a lot of people feel the need to use a low-powered string setup in them, to tame their power.
Find a racket that has the ideal power level for your game. Then you can use a soft string setup and Bob's your uncle.
The problem with some of the extra stiff rackets is that a lot of people feel the need to use a low-powered string setup in them, to tame their power.
Find a racket that has the ideal power level for your game. Then you can use a soft string setup and Bob's your uncle.
