Thoughts on light vs. heavy.

pyrokid

Hall of Fame
Before I say anything else, I would like to lay down my racquet history-

At first, when I wasn't reading these forums, I played with an aero pro drive. After seeing what people on here had to say, I decided to go with a heavier, more control-oriented option to see if I liked it.
My choice was the Pure Storm LTD. I loved it. So much control, and it felt so nice.
Then I started to dabble with lead tape here and there.
And then the dabbling became more of an addiction. I had 50 grams of lead on all my racquets, bringing them well into SW2 territory.
Then I had a little affair with the K90, who's spin was very attractive.

However, I started to notice something...

I was losing to people I normally beat.
My normally killer groundies had become absolutely amazing strokes, though.
...When I had 5 seconds to set up and swing.

Eventually I tried an old APD. It was insane, I hit my best groundstrokes in months. More power on my groundstrokes than my serve (which had admittedly dropped to about 70-80 mph with the weight), and more spin too. And what baseliner doesn't like that?
Clearly, the path ahead for me was set. And off the weight came, and eventually I switched to the radical for a little help on volleys and because it was a bit easier on the arm.

So, as you can see, I have been on both sides of this, and I see merits with with either.
But the deciding factor was that I have a modern stroke, and am mainly a baseliner.
So a heavy racquet that was great at volleys and couldn't get much racquet head speed compared to lighter racquets was of little help. Now, heck, if I'd been born 20 years earlier, I would most likely be much better suited to a heavier frame. But I wasn't, and that's just not my game.

After I switched to the radical, and I immediately put a leather grip on because the stock weighting made it awkward. But after that I put lead on the hoop, after remembering everyone saying how you can't stand up to big hitters and all with a SW of less that 330.
I broke all my strings yesterday, and I had to use one that I had only put a leather grip on, but hadn't yet had time to put tape on.
I got tons more spin, and so could put the ball in more consistently. And I played my friends dad, who's a solid 4.5-5.0, and had no problem at all with instability unless I didn't take a fast enough swing. (Not to say I won, but I still got six games off him, better than usual.)
When I just blocked it back, yeah, I could feel the racquet buckle a little. But there was a clear line that appeared as to how fast you had to swing it, and as long as you swung just fast enough to beat the ball around, the racquet still felt totally stable.
Now, I could see how a light, control oriented racquet might not float your boat if you had more traditional strokes and approached the net more often than not.
But it really seems like on these forums, people try and get everyone to use racquets like this. That's just kind of ridiculous. Now, I get the attitude that people who use heavier racquets feel that they're superior in some way, because I dunno, testosterone makes people think stupid stuff like that. But you really have to take into consideration how the person plays before recommending him a racquet, because a heavier one WILL NOT be better for a LOT of people. And you do NOT need a high SW to deal with big hitters. You need a faster swing speed. If you can generate that consistently, you can reap the rewards. (By that, I mean craptons of spin, and thus pace.)

Now I'm not ripping on the people who use heavy racquets or suggesting you all switch to lighter ones, but I am saying that you need to make sure that you're using the racquet that suits you, and not the one that everyone on here says will make you manliest. I understand heavy racquets are better at a LOT, and depending on your game, they can help you improve leaps and bounds. Because seriously, the lighter racquets are, on average, better for the modern game than the old ones. Yeah, they might not have the same 'feel', but they have more power and spin potential, and any baseliner who says
"This racquet is too powerful,"
Has to be crazy, unless said racquet has no touch at all, or no spin potential at all. Because even with the Pure Drive, you can take a full swing, and as long as you get enough topspin it's going in. If pros can keep the ball in with it, you sure as heck can too, unless you have a stroke with little topspin.


Anyway, there's my rambling post. Just some stuff I've noticed, and was wondering what y'all thought about it.
Comments and discussion appreciated.
 
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max

Legend
Nice post. I try to SV, so heavier works for me. I have old strokes; can't afford the new.
 

rcole

New User
Recently switched from the heavy fischer mcomp 95 to the much lighter pacific xforce and loving it. Playing more creatively than I have in years. I can't imagine going back to a heavy frame.
 

Rorsach

Hall of Fame
It all depends on your liking and your style of play.

Ever since i´ve modernized my strokes, my old, heavy frames tire me out within the hour. They served me well with my old-school style however, but nowadays i just use an unleaded PDR and APD.
 

JGads

Hall of Fame
Excellent post. I'm a 4.0 trying to reach 4.5 (one day.. ), have been flirting with different frames/weights for the last six months, and couldn't agree more with just about everything you said. Positives to both heavier and lighter, but as long as the player adapts, he can play at the same level with either. And the best two players I hit against, both of them at 4.5, one uses a bone-stock MG Radical MP and the other guy (even better than the first) uses an ancient Head Titanium Something that weighs like 10.5 strung.
 

pyrokid

Hall of Fame
Excellent post. I'm a 4.0 trying to reach 4.5 (one day.. ), have been flirting with different frames/weights for the last six months, and couldn't agree more with just about everything you said. Positives to both heavier and lighter, but as long as the player adapts, he can play at the same level with either. And the best two players I hit against, both of them at 4.5, one uses a bone-stock MG Radical MP and the other guy (even better than the first) uses an ancient Head Titanium Something that weighs like 10.5 strung.
Haha, you and I pretty much followed the exact same path on these things didn't we?
Started with tweeners, eventually went to the PSL. Realized it was nice, but not the best for us after it hurt out games. Switched back after many months and rolls of lead tape had came and gone

Although I'll give people I did feel very manly when I used the PSL.
 

prjacobs

Hall of Fame
I started with an almost 13 oz player's frame. Played well... Was my club champ. Switched to a lighter frame a loooong time ago, and suddenly opponents couldn't believe that I was returning shots that easily would've won points against me before. I took an 8 year break because I was competing as a classical pianist... (Don't be fooled, I'm a rocker and a rock guitarist as well), and after returning last year, I demoed everything and ended up with a dunlop 4D 500 tour. I'm killing with it. But... I decided on a lark to buy a volkl pb10 mid a week ago, just because everyone on the forum and at TW was nuts about it. And... Yes, I hit real well with it. Felt great on the arm, plow through was great, blah, blah... I've had a ton of coaching. I know how to hit and had absolutely no problem finding the sweet spot, etc. However, I couldn't generate nearly as much spin as I could with the 4D 500 tour because of the additional weight and consequently, had less control with it. Not to mention that the same shots I could catch up with, I was now hitting late. It's fun to hit with, but really not as good for MY game. Seems to me that the more modern strokes are about whipping the racquet head as well as generating racquet speed with the big muscles. I can relate it to the new shape skis. Old school skiing was about weighting and unweighting, coming up and down with your center of gravity. Now you just have your feet further apart and point with your knees. And.... As stated above, it's all about what works for you. But as my serve handcuffs players who used to handle it, I know I can relax and let the frame work for me. I don't want to have to work for the frame anymore.
 
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anirut

Legend
Pyro, you're correct. Although my rackets are quite heavy, I don't mod them just for the sake of weight of SW.

I don't base my mods on numbers. They can be VERY misleading. I base my mods on FEEL alone.

You can call me crazy, but, for some rackets, adding just 2 grams in the grip makes a differrence. Or even crazier, a stock racket, shifting a 2-gram weight along the grip makes a difference. And I'm not even talking about adding or subtracting weight here.

Yeah, it's all about FEEL -- and this has to go along well with the strings too!
 

marosmith

Professional
The heavier frame forces better form, and clearly helped you. You need to go heavy, but find a swingweight you like that is more HL so you can manuever the stick (like most pros use). Then you get the mass, the plow, but you can whip it around while still being stable.
 

pyrokid

Hall of Fame
The heavier frame forces better form, and clearly helped you. You need to go heavy, but find a swingweight you like that is more HL so you can manuever the stick (like most pros use). Then you get the mass, the plow, but you can whip it around while still being stable.
It forced better form, but it also forced a stroke I wasn't used to.
My form is all around better now. The fluidity of using the heavy racquet stayed and it's the only thing that feels right now, but I can do everything much faster without the weight. So I get more pace and spin in less time.
And my swingweight is fine at the moment. It's the same as I had it on my leaded PSL.
If I added more weight, it would give me more plow and power, but that's not what I want. I have all the power I need. With a light racquet, I also have all the spin I need.
With a heavy racquet, I get more power (not a bad thing.) but much less spin, so I can't control it. I don't care what people say, if you take a stock MG radical and one that has an extra ounce on the handle, you will not get the same spin with both, I have tried.
And my racquet is still a bit over 11.5 oz, so it's not too light.

Besides, one of the main points of this ramble was that a heavy racquet is not always the answer. I know I play better with what I'm using now, and that's all that matters.

Thanks for the kind words on the post, guys.
Even you, alanl. Because I'm pretty sure you'll post in about 29 minutes. :p
 
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AirK

Rookie
I totally agree with your opinions-

Another thing i'd like to add is that when people (mostly people up to intermediate standard) complain about racquet stability imo its mostly to do with them hitting off centre shots too frequently hence the twisting. Ok so they add some weight and their stability issues may be magically solved but now they aren't forced to hit as on centre. Imo it would be better for them to stay with a lightER racquet and ensure that they are hitting on centre more BEFORE complaining about stability.
 

Larrysümmers

Hall of Fame
i think it has a lot to do with the acceleration, the lighter rackets make it easier to swing faster so you are able to generate more racket speed causing more spin and power.
right now i have a racket with about a 380 sw. it was feeling sluggish so i added weight right above the grip and since it is a better balance i can get that racket speed again. and since adding weight there my shots have been better
so i think it has a lot to do with sw and balance. ive never had problems with twisting or a lack of plow through.

this is my opinion on this matter.
 

KenC

Hall of Fame
So what would happen if you took all the lead tape off the PSLs and played them stock now?
 

0d1n

Hall of Fame
I totally agree with your opinions-

Another thing i'd like to add is that when people (mostly people up to intermediate standard) complain about racquet stability imo its mostly to do with them hitting off centre shots too frequently hence the twisting. Ok so they add some weight and their stability issues may be magically solved but now they aren't forced to hit as on centre. Imo it would be better for them to stay with a lightER racquet and ensure that they are hitting on centre more BEFORE complaining about stability.
This is probably true.
Another thing I think is true is that with the "Nadal/Federer" smaller grip size craziness, everybody is now using smaller grips than they should.
This, in my experience, is a MASSIVE contributor to the feeling of instability.
Of course Federer has no problem with stability even using a grip size below what he should...his racket is 360 grams plus...his SW is probably in the 340-350's and he is hitting the sweet spot 9 times out of 10 with absolutely amazing racquet head speed.
4.5 Joe will NOT be able to do the same.
 

bad_call

Legend
pyrokid - another good post...you are wise beyond your years.

btw - made an MG Rad MP more head light by adding lead inside the butt cap which seemed to up the racquet head speed.
 

prjacobs

Hall of Fame
It forced better form, but it also forced a stroke I wasn't used to.
My form is all around better now. The fluidity of using the heavy racquet stayed and it's the only thing that feels right now, but I can do everything much faster without the weight. So I get more pace and spin in less time.
And my swingweight is fine at the moment. It's the same as I had it on my leaded PSL.
If I added more weight, it would give me more plow and power, but that's not what I want. I have all the power I need. With a light racquet, I also have all the spin I need.
With a heavy racquet, I get more power (not a bad thing.) but much less spin, so I can't control it. I don't care what people say, if you take a stock MG radical and one that has an extra ounce on the handle, you will not get the same spin with both, I have tried.
And my racquet is still a bit over 11.5 oz, so it's not too light.

Besides, one of the main points of this ramble was that a heavy racquet is not always the answer. I know I play better with what I'm using now, and that's all that matters.

Thanks for the kind words on the post, guys.
Even you, alanl. Because I'm pretty sure you'll post in about 29 minutes. :p
Exactly...
 

alfa164164

Professional
For the last several years I have been experimenting with rackets predominantly in the 11.3 to 11.9 ounce range, in search of the elusive holy grail. I did however recently pick up a new Yonex Super RD Tour 95 and played a few times with it. The SRD 95 weighs right at 13 ounces fully dressed in stock form (no lead or modifications, just replaced the factory Yonex pleather with a new synthetic). Even though this is a high static weight, it feels very head light and swings surprisingly easy. Anyways, the plow through is amazing. The biggest advantage from the weight comes on returning big serves. NOTHING pushes the SRD around. The lighter frames really feel like toys comparitively. Now, can my shoulder handle this club in the heat (ATL area) over 3 long sets - I don't know. Do I generate the same racket head speed as the lighter frames - No. Do I NEED to generate the same racket head speed with this beast - because of the plow through, No. At this point it is too early to analyze the trade off between my heavier and lighter frames, both have their advantages, it's just a completely different hitting experience. To each their own!
 

pyrokid

Hall of Fame
So what would happen if you took all the lead tape off the PSLs and played them stock now?
I go back to a longer stroke and put less action on the ball. Less pace too.
And it takes a really long time to set up comparatively.

pyrokid - another good post...you are wise beyond your years.

btw - made an MG Rad MP more head light by adding lead inside the butt cap which seemed to up the racquet head speed.
The leather grip helped some with this, and then I added a few extra grams above the handle, mostly because travelerajm says that's the most effective and I trust his science most there.
But how much could you put on before it started to feel like you were slowing the whole racquet down at least a little bit? because after about 6 grams, it felt like I wasn't making the head faster anymore, just making the rest slower. But my preferred balance might just be at around 5-6 points HL.
 

PimpMyGame

Hall of Fame
Excellent thread. I currently use my PSC 18x20 in stock, leather grip, over grip and dampener. Both come in around 365-370g. I'm now toying with playing with my AG200, stripped of lead and with syn grip as opposed to leather. This will give me a racket 30-40g lighter than what I currently use.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
I think my racquet is just at 12ozs and the SW is 335. Not too heavy, pretty much just right. With lighter sticks (I owned some apdcs) I did not get the same amount of control and feel that I get from my current one.

I think the main reason is the beam thickness. That is a real personal preference, but I prefer thin beams. I get more control that way and can still hit really hard. I am tempted now and then to grab a pure drive or an apdc again just to see how I'd hit with one now, but the open pattern would have me using full poly again and I am not a huge fan of that.
 

pyrokid

Hall of Fame
I think my racquet is just at 12ozs and the SW is 335. Not too heavy, pretty much just right. With lighter sticks (I owned some apdcs) I did not get the same amount of control and feel that I get from my current one.

I think the main reason is the beam thickness. That is a real personal preference, but I prefer thin beams. I get more control that way and can still hit really hard. I am tempted now and then to grab a pure drive or an apdc again just to see how I'd hit with one now, but the open pattern would have me using full poly again and I am not a huge fan of that.
Disregarding feel, the Pure Drive was the best racquet I've ever used from the baseline.
I just had to hit a bit more up on the ball than with my usual racquet.
But I just couldn't place my serves quite as well, and my volleys were worse. I don't volley a ton, but I come in about once a game so it does merit a stick that at least has decent volleying capabilities.

If you're just a baseliner, I don't really think anything has as much power and access to spin as it does. If I had more pace on my serves, and didn't just rely on placing them at a mere 80-90 mph (which is really slow compared to most of the guys I play in tournies) I would have to give serious thought to switching.
 

pyrokid

Hall of Fame
Excellent thread. I currently use my PSC 18x20 in stock, leather grip, over grip and dampener. Both come in around 365-370g. I'm now toying with playing with my AG200, stripped of lead and with syn grip as opposed to leather. This will give me a racket 30-40g lighter than what I currently use.
Try stripping it all off and playing with someone who's used to returning your shots and ask them how you're playing.
I thought I was playing worse when I first took it off just because it didn't feel like I was hitting as solidly.

After video comparison though, I totally believed him.
 

max

Legend
Are you lightweight players all baseliners? Do you all use whippy shots?

I have wondered if the extreme western grip stuffed---which put a lot of spin on the ball---was bad because there was no power behind the ball, just a lot of whipped whoof/spin. Are your balls heavy?

Sadly, I've seen many extreme western grip people unable to deal with short balls and volleys---they lose MANY points that they could have otherwise put away.
 

pyrokid

Hall of Fame
Are you lightweight players all baseliners? Do you all use whippy shots?

I have wondered if the extreme western grip stuffed---which put a lot of spin on the ball---was bad because there was no power behind the ball, just a lot of whipped whoof/spin. Are your balls heavy?

Sadly, I've seen many extreme western grip people unable to deal with short balls and volleys---they lose MANY points that they could have otherwise put away.
I don't really whip the racquet much, I just use an extreme amount of shoulder rotation to get racquet head speed.
I use a semiwestern. And even the people I know who do use full westerns have no trouble flattening out when they get a short ball.
And light racquets can still make a dang heavy ball.
Heck, a senior on another HS team plays with a pure drive and his forehand has been clocked in at over 105 MPH and it kicks like nothing I've ever seen.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Disregarding feel, the Pure Drive was the best racquet I've ever used from the baseline.
I just had to hit a bit more up on the ball than with my usual racquet.
But I just couldn't place my serves quite as well, and my volleys were worse. I don't volley a ton, but I come in about once a game so it does merit a stick that at least has decent volleying capabilities.

If you're just a baseliner, I don't really think anything has as much power and access to spin as it does. If I had more pace on my serves, and didn't just rely on placing them at a mere 80-90 mph (which is really slow compared to most of the guys I play in tournies) I would have to give serious thought to switching.
That is really true, and why I personally do not like powerful sticks. For a flatter, driven shot I prefer to hit more horizontal. I do hit up on the ball also (with a Western), but ever since going to a more controlled, player's stick I have been able to vary my strokes and out the ball at better angles then I had before.

So basically I saw an improvement in directional control and hitting flat winners. My topspin is still considered heavier then most guys I hit with.

I had to take a step back at first to get my footwork right, because the Dunlop is a little more demanding, but it is really weighted perfectly in stock form.
 

pyrokid

Hall of Fame
Whatever works for you, I guess. I wasn't able to be as consistent with a heavier frame because I had less spin so I couldn't get the angles.
 

JGads

Hall of Fame
Haha, you and I pretty much followed the exact same path on these things didn't we?
Started with tweeners, eventually went to the PSL. Realized it was nice, but not the best for us after it hurt out games. Switched back after many months and rolls of lead tape had came and gone

Although I'll give people I did feel very manly when I used the PSL.
Indeed, same path. So much so that (unrelated to you), I've been thinking about picking up one of the cheap MG Radical MPs off of TW, because every time I switch with my hitting partner and use his, I play very, very well with it. It just does everything so solidly, and it is a good base should I choose to experiment, which I probably would, since we people on this board tend to be pretty finicky and always on the hunt for JUST the perfect little stick and setup, even if there is none.

Couple of things:

1, It's a give-and-take with heavy vs. light for me. When I've hit with heavier frames like the K90 or Prestige Mid, the weight of those sticks certainly do one thing that I really like, which is tame my spin. I hit with such spin naturally, no matter the racquet, that when I do go light it becomes so easy to spin the ball that I do it TOO much, creating a ball that's always going over the net but it's so spinny that it falls short in the court, allowing the opponent to get in front of it. I may be moving him around, but I'm not hitting that deep corner winner. I'm swiping the ball, not NAILING the ball. Then I'll play with a K90 and the weight of it kind of forces me to hit THROUGH the ball so much more - it punishes the ball with more weight, and my natural spinny sort of stroke gets that added plow and ends up as a deep, heavy ball that forces the opponent onto his heels more and takes him by more of a surprise a little more often. And I do love that feeling of actually feeling like you've got a 'weapon' in your hand, something that'll do a lot of the work for you. And with that weapon in hand such as the K90, I've I've actually taken sets off of some of my 4.5 friends, and then I always think, 'OK, this is IT!. Heavy IS better.' But then the second set arrives and I usually get pummeled; part of it is due to my opponent, who is better than me to begin with, adjusting and outplaying me, but I'm sure it also has something to do with arm fatigue. My arm speed slows just enough, I suppose, on serve and on groundies, forcing me into errors or unimpressive shots and I then begin to lose those crucial points that I was winning in the first set.

So I think it's about finding a balance, the frame or setup that's just heavy ENOUGH for your particular style of play, and one that most easily produces a controlled-enough deep ball on the most consistent basis, from the first set through the third.

The second thing I was going to say is yes, after so much time this year moving from frame to frame ... and reading so much on this board ... it's gotten to the point where it's a bit overwhelming, and my 4.5 hitting partner with the Radical said something the other day that was simple but really smart. He'd very briefly flirted with demos (probably because of me, partially) for like a week but then stopped himself before getting into the madness. He said he was just going to stick with his stick for awhile longer and flirt with different strings (since he's had some arm issues), but when I suggested lead tweaking as well he said, 'You know, one thing at a time.' His point was that between strings and lead and frames, there is basically an infinite number of tweaks you can make and the more he thinks about the technical stuff, the more he attributes success/failure to equipment rather than his game, and really, it's 95 percent player, 5 percent frame (if that).

The simple way in which he put it made me think of my racquet demo journey of the past year and how ridiculous it's been. I've demoed so many, and experimented with lead here and there on a lot, that my mind has been so warped with the TECHNICAL. And look, I spent a few days at the Farmer's Classic this past week, getting up close looks at not just the pros, but the pros' coaches and hitting partners, as well as the stud local juniors that some of these pros ask to come hit with them in practice sessions -- in other words, many great, accomplished players who aren't necessarily paid to use a particular racquet, and I've seen the full gamut: leaded up and bone-stock, Babolat, Wilson, Head, Redondo, Technifibre, whatever. Sometimes on these boards, it reads as if anyone holding a PB10 Mid is a 'player,' and anyone with an AeroPro Drive or K-Blade 98 is playing with a kids' racquet or a toy, but it's just not true. They're all capable and good for different things, it's just a matter of finding what's most comfortable, and then just focusing on your game, your stroke.

I guess some of this is very obvious, has been said before and it's even piggy-backing on what Pyro's initial post was sort of about, but it really does need to be said, over and over again. There is no Holy Grail, Best Frame. And there is no definitive 'weight' that's best; it all depends on the player. And I'm realizing I personally need to spend a helluva lot more time focusing on my game and what my body is doing instead of what I'm holding in my hand.

Sorry for the long ramble. I blame Pyro.
 

10ACE

Professional
It all depends on your liking and your style of play.

Ever since i´ve modernized my strokes, my old, heavy frames tire me out within the hour. They served me well with my old-school style however, but nowadays i just use an unleaded PDR and APD.
Interesting..I have been using Dunlop AG200's weighted to 12.90-13 oz. Great for my serves- and solid on ground strokes.

Recently I played someone who uses the APD GT. The amount of topsin he was generating- was causing me trouble- I have an eastern grip/extreme and longer strokes.

So I asked if I could hit with his racquet- I liked the stiffness- and found hitting to be pleasurable. I am not sure if it was the stiffness- or the HL- or the fact that it was a 100sqin that seems to play like a smaller Head size- But the APD GT and I need to become better acquainted-
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Jgads, yes the K90 is a heavy racquet, and going to them is quite a change as I had one myself.

I don't consider my 4d200 to be heavy, but maybe the OP would. On the pro tour, my stick would be considered light, but I know college players who use the 200 stock and say it can handle the heaviest balls they receive. I guess my point is that your post gave 2 pretty extreme examples in terms of weight and it sounds like you may really enjoy a 11.8-12.0 oz stick with a SW of 330-335.
 

JGads

Hall of Fame
Jgads, yes the K90 is a heavy racquet, and going to them is quite a change as I had one myself.

I don't consider my 4d200 to be heavy, but maybe the OP would. On the pro tour, my stick would be considered light, but I know college players who use the 200 stock and say it can handle the heaviest balls they receive. I guess my point is that your post gave 2 pretty extreme examples in terms of weight and it sounds like you may really enjoy a 11.8-12.0 oz stick with a SW of 330-335.
That is indeed what I've discovered is a pretty comfortable spec range for me, though usually the swingweight that I like is in the 320-330 range. I have discovered that I'm perfectly comfortable swinging a 11.0-11.3 racquet IF it's evenly balanced like the MG Radical MP or the KBlade 98, my old racquet. Everyone always talks about headlight being so good, but for me I find a lot to like in a more even balance. Something about always knowing where the 'head' is in my swing, rather than it getting sort of lost in my backswing. I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's something I've noticed.
 

pyrokid

Hall of Fame

'You know, one thing at a time.' His point was that between strings and lead and frames, there is basically an infinite number of tweaks you can make and the more he thinks about the technical stuff, the more he attributes success/failure to equipment rather than his game, and really, it's 95 percent player, 5 percent frame (if that).
Yeah, that's another thing I've realized lately. I'm sticking with my radicals. Because all this switching is hurting my game, and even when I did find something better after about four months, I lost about four months of hard practice time. And the difference between me playing with the APDC and the MG radical MP is not greater than the difference between me and me after four month of practice.
Sometimes on these boards, it reads as if anyone holding a PB10 Mid is a 'player,' and anyone with an AeroPro Drive or K-Blade 98 is playing with a kids' racquet or a toy, but it's just not true. They're all capable and good for different things, it's just a matter of finding what's most comfortable, and then just focusing on your game, your stroke.
Yeah, we should kind of agree as a board to ditch this whole elitist attitude with regards to player's frames... I mean, yeah, if they work for you that's great, but calling other racquets 'chick sticks' or whatever really does nothing other than turn people off of racquets that might very well be great for them.

Jgads, yes the K90 is a heavy racquet, and going to them is quite a change as I had one myself.

I don't consider my 4d200 to be heavy, but maybe the OP would.
Nah, anything 12.5 or under is midleweight.

Everyone always talks about headlight being so good, but for me I find a lot to like in a more even balance. Something about always knowing where the 'head' is in my swing, rather than it getting sort of lost in my backswing. I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's something I've noticed.
I totally agree here.
HL does feel nicer on volleys though.
 
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KenC

Hall of Fame
"Heavy" is a moving target. The K90 is not a heavy racquet to many players. A PDGT is way to heavy for my wife.

I really think we need to take swingweight into more consideration than static weight. My PSLGTs weigh 20g more than my old PDGTs but swing and feel noticeably lighter because of the lower swingweight. Maybe we really just have to find our ideal swingweight and then experiment with the relationship between static weight and balance to to find the racquet that just works best for us?
 

pyrokid

Hall of Fame
what about balance? i find that with a headlight balance i can still play with a very heavy racket
Haha, then go for it. I'm not saying anything bad about heavy racquets at all, I'm just saying that they aren't the be-all-end-all for everyone.

Just because I wouldn't play well with it doesn't mean you won't.
 

Larrysümmers

Hall of Fame
Haha, then go for it. I'm not saying anything bad about heavy racquets at all, I'm just saying that they aren't the be-all-end-all for everyone.

Just because I wouldn't play well with it doesn't mean you won't.
no i should have worded that better. like would a racket that is like 12 pts HL counter effect the SW?
 

pyrokid

Hall of Fame
no i should have worded that better. like would a racket that is like 12 pts HL counter effect the SW?
Oh my bad, I didn't catch that one.

For my strokes at least, it seemed like after I hit about 5-6 points HL I didn't get any benefit out of the added maneuverability.
Others have said differently though. And others have called me an idiot for thinking I could make the racquet swing easier by adding weight. You probably just have to screw around a bunch with lead to find out what balance you like.
But another thing to consider is that some racquets that have the same mass in the head as others can have totally different swingweights. Like the new APDGT and my MG radical. The APD is much more polarized. And so that makes it swing significantly easier than my radical would if I added, say, 20 grams to the bottom of the hoop to get them to equal SW.
So even though the APD has a much higher SW (335-ish vs 315-ish.) I thought it swung lighter.
So you can get away with a pretty high SW if it's distributed right.

Just my experience anyway.
 

Larrysümmers

Hall of Fame
Oh my bad, I didn't catch that one.

For my strokes at least, it seemed like after I hit about 5-6 points HL I didn't get any benefit out of the added maneuverability.
Others have said differently though. And others have called me an idiot for thinking I could make the racquet swing easier by adding weight. You probably just have to screw around a bunch with lead to find out what balance you like.
But another thing to consider is that some racquets that have the same mass in the head as others can have totally different swingweights. Like the new APDGT and my MG radical. The APD is much more polarized. And so that makes it swing significantly easier than my radical would if I added, say, 20 grams to the bottom of the hoop to get them to equal SW.
So even though the APD has a much higher SW (335-ish vs 315-ish.) I thought it swung lighter.
So you can get away with a pretty high SW if it's distributed right.

Just my experience anyway.
nah man i worded it weird

but yeah i just have been using lead and just seeing what works. i really like what i am getting right now. i dont know for sure but its almost at 400 with like 8 pts HL. it was an even balance but i couldnt accelerate so i added lead by the handle above the grip and that made it wore HL and i can accelerate way faster and i get more spin on my shots

so pyrokid, have you had fun playing with the lead? because i think this is one of the most fun parts of tennis :)
 

pyrokid

Hall of Fame
nah man i worded it weird

but yeah i just have been using lead and just seeing what works. i really like what i am getting right now. i dont know for sure but its almost at 400 with like 8 pts HL. it was an even balance but i couldnt accelerate so i added lead by the handle above the grip and that made it wore HL and i can accelerate way faster and i get more spin on my shots

so pyrokid, have you had fun playing with the lead? because i think this is one of the most fun parts of tennis :)
It's second only to the actual tennis, it's awesome to see what a little bit can do.

So you did get more speed from putting it on the handle... Hmm. Have you tried adding it at like the 8" mark like travelerajm suggests? He says that's the way to bring the racquethead around the fastest. It worked for me.
 

Larrysümmers

Hall of Fame
It's second only to the actual tennis, it's awesome to see what a little bit can do.

So you did get more speed from putting it on the handle... Hmm. Have you tried adding it at like the 8" mark like travelerajm suggests? He says that's the way to bring the racquethead around the fastest. It worked for me.
yeah i did, i didnt know i did but i just measured and it is a little past 8inches. i wrapped 8 grams there and it really did make a huge improvement.
 

bad_call

Legend
Weird, apparently 8.5 inches is where it has the most effect...
Nice guess there!
have u tried it in the handle? i took the grip and butt cap off then stuffed it in the handle with a lot of gauze wrapping to keep it from moving around. if u go this way then suggest at least 1/2 oz for your trouble.
 

pyrokid

Hall of Fame
have u tried it in the handle? i took the grip and butt cap off then stuffed it in the handle with a lot of gauze wrapping to keep it from moving around. if u go this way then suggest at least 1/2 oz for your trouble.
Like in the very bottom?
Not lately, mostly because I tried it and I was never able to get the darned lead to stay in place.
I tried hot glue, silicone, pretty much everything but it all got loose eventually for some reason. Maybe something was in the handle of that racquet that made that happen though.
 

bad_call

Legend
Like in the very bottom?
Not lately, mostly because I tried it and I was never able to get the darned lead to stay in place.
I tried hot glue, silicone, pretty much everything but it all got loose eventually for some reason. Maybe something was in the handle of that racquet that made that happen though.
gauze stuffed in the handle 1st, leaving but a small area to put gauze wrapped lead worked for me. also saw another player tape coins (i think quarters maybe) to the bottom/outside of the buttcap...smarter since less work required.
 

pyrokid

Hall of Fame
gauze stuffed in the handle 1st, leaving but a small area to put gauze wrapped lead worked for me. also saw another player tape coins (i think quarters maybe) to the bottom/outside of the buttcap...smarter since less work required.
Hmm, I'll probably try that tonight. I know nickels are 5g a piece...
And I have no clue how to open the HEAD trap door, so at least this way I could see if I liked it.
 

bad_call

Legend
Hmm, I'll probably try that tonight. I know nickels are 5g a piece...
And I have no clue how to open the HEAD trap door, so at least this way I could see if I liked it.
no trap door on my head racquets. the coin taping would be the easiest to try. suggest removing the leather/synthetic grip then taping the coins to the bottom butt cap then install the grip back. the taped coins will be visible (no need to remove the butt cap).
 

pyrokid

Hall of Fame
no trap door on my head racquets. the coin taping would be the easiest to try. suggest removing the leather/synthetic grip then taping the coins to the bottom butt cap then install the grip back. the taped coins will be visible (no need to remove the butt cap).
Wait really?
There's no trap on them?
I thought that little notch was so you could pry it open...
That would probably explain all I've achieved trying to open it.
 
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