Thoughts on Mid Season DQ's

[JavierLW]

In our area, in both 3.5 and 4.0, there have been a small rash of DQ's. It's probably similar everywhere, and thanks to the bump up I believe it may be more this year then ever.

So obviously that's unfortunate for some, they dont get to play at their lower level any longer, and the fortunes of their teams are changing drastically.

What to do about this as a captain, considering if you werent really trying to cheat in the first place?

I think it means this:

If you get self rated players, you really ought to not get someone who you even suspect might be someone who is going to win most of the time, especially at #1 singles or #1 Doubles.

You're better off just going for solid #2 or #3 Doubles players, maybe someone who definately fits in your level but has a great attitude, is fun to be with, and because of that can pull out a lot of matches and will be a good doubles partner, etc....

Or just focus on computer rated players only that you maybe know that have improved their game a lot.

That is of course unless you are a dirt bag and you're just going to see this as a lame excuse to hide players and tell them to throw sets, etc...., which is what a lot of weak people in our area are saying....

That's like saying I shouldnt lock my car doors, because it just encourages people to break the windows to get into my car and steal my radio....

I feel bad for some people, especially when they dont know really where they belong, but I think if people take the attitude where they stop trying to get ahead by picking up new "super" players all the time, it will make the league a lot better.

There are enough people now that have been moved up to 4.0 and even up to 4.5 that there is really no good excuse for playing down. If someone wants to play tennis so badly, they can play the next level. (especially at doubles where it still seems to be rather similar between levels, as opposed to singles where there seems to be a huge jump in talent)

 

[bodieq]

You have an honorable philosophy, and I respect that. (But of course you know, there are plenty of other Captains salivating at the mouth trying to recruit these "self-rated" rockstars). And unfortunately, your ethical approach pretty much means your team won't get to board the train of: Districts-->Sectionals-->Nationals.

 

[AutoXer]

Around here I know of people(myself included), who joined usta and self rated honestly. My usta rating is no longer accurate because I play ALTA and flex leagues mainly. When I play usta, I mainly play mixed and combo, so my rating hasn't changed. I only play 2 or 3 matches a year on a men's team as a sub, when a buddy can't get anyone else to show up. Those couple of matches are not enough to bump me up. I know several other people in the same boat. One is a line 1 A3 alta player(for those familiar with alta) with a winning record, that is still a 3.0. I call him the greatest 3.0 alive. When I play combo and mixed, I am playing up, but it doesn't count.

 

[ChipNCharge]

If you get self rated players, you really ought to not get someone who you even suspect might be someone who is going to win most of the time, especially at #1 singles or #1 Doubles.....You're better off just going for solid #2 or #3 Doubles players

What difference would it make which line they played, considering line numbers really don't mean anything in USTA league play?

 

[JavierLW]

What difference would it make which line they played, considering line numbers really don't mean anything in USTA league play?

Okay, since you want to be like that...

Substitute #3 Doubles for: Knowingly trying to put these people against where you think the weaker players are.

In our league that is #3 Doubles. It's because we go by individual wins and not team wins, so there is a lot less stacking going on because you cant afford to throw away any matches.

Obviously just playing #3 in of itself is meaningless, it's the fact that you're going up against players with lower actual ratings that is important.

Usually if you're playing a weaker team that's doing horrible, some teams use that as a chance to throw their best players at #3 doubles to sandbag. (sometimes you see them play one single match in that position and you dont see them again until they are playing #1 Singles in the districts)

If you're playing a stronger team then it's different because all three teams may be great.

(or if you get really lucky and get to play players that are even rated a full level lower than you, you can really work the score)

 

[JavierLW]

You have an honorable philosophy, and I respect that. (But of course you know, there are plenty of other Captains salivating at the mouth trying to recruit these "self-rated" rockstars). And unfortunately, your ethical approach pretty much means your team won't get to board the train of: Districts-->Sectionals-->Nationals.

Yes but that is why those are a bunch of baloney in most years.

It only takes a few dirtbag captains to pretty much spoil those, since typically only one teams makes it to Sectionals from the Districts, and one team makes it to Nationals from the Sectionals.

Also those few retards who acted in such a way are the main culprits as to why the USTA went banana's last year and just starting moving people up en masse....

So if you know of a friend or of a buddy who was truely screwed by all of that (and I know a couple), they have those guys to thank for it.

 

[jonnyjack]

What's even worse, IMO, than self-rated players working the score to prevent a DQ is the computer rated folks working the scores. They do so to stay at a lower level so what really happens is their weak opponents get bumped up (or don't get moved down accordingly) when they shouldn't move up and then have to face more beatings at the higher level.

 

[Z-Man]

I think the USTA deserves some blame too for trying to redefine the levels. I sat out for two years (kids), and when I came back, they had purged all of the talent from my level. I went from being decent to unbeatable without really improving my game. A player shouldn't be DQ'd when he stays the same and the USTA changes the levels.

 

[Spokewench]

It seems that I'm always playing up; so I don't worry about DQs. Sometimes, I do with some of my players as I captain teams, but I just don't sweat it. It is not in my control. Most of my players are not self rated anymore since I don't captain 3.0 teams anymore. So, not too much to worry about.

I really like to pick teams with people of similar attitude, honorable, nice, fun to play with, with just enough edge of competitiveness. This is the perfect team member; they don't have to be the best. A good, enthusiastic player is better than one that's really hot on the tennis court, but has a terrible attitude and is high maintenance. I can do without those kinds of team members!

It's amazing what a bunch of good, enthusiastic players can do if they feel like they are a team and are supported by the rest of their team!

spoke

 

[JavierLW]

I think the USTA deserves some blame too for trying to redefine the levels. I sat out for two years (kids), and when I came back, they had purged all of the talent from my level. I went from being decent to unbeatable without really improving my game. A player shouldn't be DQ'd when he stays the same and the USTA changes the levels.

That's unfortunate, but the trouble was the levels were screwed up before and they have been for many years.

The proof to that was when you followed it all the way down to 3.0 or 2.5 and a REAL 2.5 or 3.0 player doesn't even belong on any of those teams.

Or how when you get to Nationals you're really dealing with at minimum 4.0 leveled players on here.

In the old system more players that were "decent" in one level were usually "competitive" in the next. I think players in your situation need to take that into consideration as they come back.

And teaching pro's need to be more honest with them about where their level is, a good teaching pro probably agrees with where the USTA drew the lines, but some are just out there to look good and if you're at their club and your team goes to Nationals or something that's a big deal to them. (because they are not good enough to attract Juniors and focus on them, which is more where all of the $$$ is)

 

[tom10s]

in my area the competent captains were running scared that players would be dq'ed. incompetent captains don't care of course. excessive time spent obsessing over when/where to play the self-raters to avoid season crippling dq. we were correct to be this concerned....the incompetent captain went from 1st place to 3rd place when his ringer got dq'ed mid-season, effectively ending his team's chance to advance.

 

[JavierLW]

in my area the competent captains were running scared that players would be dq'ed. incompetent captains don't care of course. excessive time spent obsessing over when/where to play the self-raters to avoid season crippling dq. we were correct to be this concerned....the incompetent captain went from 1st place to 3rd place when his ringer got dq'ed mid-season, effectively ending his team's chance to advance.

Replace "competent" with "underhanded" and you got something there.

If they truely belong at the level you are playing them at then you dont need to hide them.

There is no point in winning first and advancing if you have to cheat, that's why the playoffs were pretty much a joke to begin with and the system has been screwed up.

(it's also why the league went banana's last year moving EVERYONE up, because of the few people that cheat the system like this, otherwise it pretty much takes care of itself....)

Only cheaters and sandbaggers go thru all that hassle to hide players and manipulate the system. While it's true that may be necessary if you want to move on, but it's pretty sad because it means the playoffs are just full of cheaters and sandbaggers.

 

[BustedString]

Singles vs. Doubles

In my area, we too have had a ton of DQ's this year and they are at all levels, though focused between 3.0 and 3.5. I felt badly for some because they were people with M ratings who elected to play Men's or Women's leagues. Is it just that everyone is rated higher or have they adjusted the DQ threshold? I can't recall reading that but there was so much to digest.

Almost all of the DQ's I've seen are from people who are playing singles. I realize it is tougher to DQ when playing doubles but the disparity is striking. In our tiny local leagues, I know of 6 DQ'd players and all of them were mostly singles. It just seems like that still leaves the door open to abuse by hiding people at doubles until maybe the post-season, by which time they have a safe enough of a DTRP that striking is going to be more difficult.

I don't know all of the intricacies but I do know that DQ's are way up here. Not much can be done now but I'm very interested to see if they tweak the system next year.

 

[JavierLW]

In my area, we too have had a ton of DQ's this year and they are at all levels, though focused between 3.0 and 3.5. I felt badly for some because they were people with M ratings who elected to play Men's or Women's leagues. Is it just that everyone is rated higher or have they adjusted the DQ threshold? I can't recall reading that but there was so much to digest.

Almost all of the DQ's I've seen are from people who are playing singles. I realize it is tougher to DQ when playing doubles but the disparity is striking. In our tiny local leagues, I know of 6 DQ'd players and all of them were mostly singles. It just seems like that still leaves the door open to abuse by hiding people at doubles until maybe the post-season, by which time they have a safe enough of a DTRP that striking is going to be more difficult.

I don't know all of the intricacies but I do know that DQ's are way up here. Not much can be done now but I'm very interested to see if they tweak the system next year.

I notice they are way up as well, I feel they are due various factors:

1) Because of the big bump up, the line between 3.0/3.5/4.0 is now lower and the competition is more watered down. So if you self rate the same people you think you normally would of, their odds of getting DQ'ed has now went up significantly.

2) In some areas tournaments do not count toward the ratings. This means that the same people get to show up to these tournaments, dominate sometimes and win every single one and there is no mechanism to move them out of whatever level they play tournaments unless they also play league tennis.

So now there is a disparity where if you take these great players in say the 4.0 tournament division and throw them in the 4.0 league as a self rate, they will get DQ'ed. (because 4.0 has been watered down)

My solution to this is they really need to count all tournament matches as well.... Otherwise this is a case where I feel this is kind of unfair to these players in some way.

3) As far as mixed ratings, does anyone know if there was a "BIG BUMPUP" in mixed ratings last year? Maybe they didnt adjust those, which created a disparity with where the new lines are drawn.....

I think just my #1 point is a biggie. And Ive seen it in the past where sometimes self rated players go in bunches, where a few dominate some legitimate stronger players, and they all dominate each other so they all go down.

(unless you cheat and hide them and tell them to lose a set or so, etc...)

 

[BustedString]

I think your #1 point is definitely right. And, it wouldn't surprise me if #3 was right as well. It would make sense. It may have saved some heartache if they had synced up the bumps but who knows?