Ihatetennis
Hall of Fame
takeback, its much bigger and judging by the first video a possible liability in timing
Ihatetennis
Hall of Fame
Everything else is fantastic, great progress.
I was just looking at your racket, footwork and shoulder turn are much better.
Try shortening up the backswing, it will help more in matches and when you have to play someone who hits with pace.
Long strokes barely work at the pro level. Look at gasquet, amazing talent, but theres a reason he is not number 1 in the world. He can beat any player when he is playing his best, arguably the best ball striker when he is on. but notice how much he shanks in big points against top guys
a shorter backswing wont be affected the same under pressure
I was just looking at your racket, footwork and shoulder turn are much better.
Try shortening up the backswing, it will help more in matches and when you have to play someone who hits with pace.
Long strokes barely work at the pro level. Look at gasquet, amazing talent, but theres a reason he is not number 1 in the world. He can beat any player when he is playing his best, arguably the best ball striker when he is on. but notice how much he shanks in big points against top guys
a shorter backswing wont be affected the same under pressure
The backswing is longer than most boys that I see but similar to some of the women. Of course Gonzy also had something much more longer if I remember right.
When I was working at the WTA event last month, I noticed that many of these younger women actually have more ATP-ish style forehand and maybe the longer takeback like Serena has not duplicated that much these days? OTOH, they are far below Serena in level so who is to say.
I am not sure what level eagle competes in and maybe the more powerful forehand offense will compensate for any delay problems against fast hitters, of which there are quite a few as one moves to the senior boys.
onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
It looks fine and about the same to me. Much better prep, takeback and smoother.
E
eaglesburg
Guest
JohnYandell
Hall of Fame
Lee,
If change "has" to come from 3 months of practice there would be quantum elevation in the universe of tennis level.
If change "has" to come from 3 months of practice there would be quantum elevation in the universe of tennis level.
JohnYandell
Hall of Fame
If you take Eagle's clips, slow them down and analyze frame by frame there are huge differences before and after--and by huge I mean technical adjustments that may actually be relatively small but have huge impact. These include:
Full shoulder turn and left arm stretch. The backswing itself did not change but the increased turn in the prep changes it's angle.
Better posture standing upright
Got rid of extreme open stance and learned default semi-closed stance. This improved rotation timing and therefore contact.
Learned to extend through the swing without disrupting the wiper.
The whole thing looks cleaner, easier, more explosive. It's a good piece of work by Eagle.
Full shoulder turn and left arm stretch. The backswing itself did not change but the increased turn in the prep changes it's angle.
Better posture standing upright
Got rid of extreme open stance and learned default semi-closed stance. This improved rotation timing and therefore contact.
Learned to extend through the swing without disrupting the wiper.
The whole thing looks cleaner, easier, more explosive. It's a good piece of work by Eagle.
E
eaglesburg
Guest
You can use rowvid.com to slow down YouTube videos.
indianballer
Semi-Pro
As usual you cannot really see what is happening. The take back is not longer. He is turning his shoulders more with a different orientation of the feet. The stroke is relatively compact. Not "wta" or whatever you are trying to label things. It is much improved from the original video. You are very much mistaken about tennis form as usual. I think you need to post more.
eaglesburg, nice forehand. How tight/loose are you holding the racquet ? Did it change after your lessons ?
E
eaglesburg
Guest
Thank! I think it's pretty loose. I don't think I changed grip pressure, at least not consciously.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
It looks like not as much open stance and more shoulder turn on your shots. You don't look like you are slapping at the ball as much like in the first video. You don't show the shots going through the courts so cannot see how much difference there is in how the ball come off the ground.
But just hitting midcourt sitters off the machine does not mean much to me. I have watched a lot of players look terrific of fed balls or ball machines serving up shots on a platter over and over which makes it easy to get a good rythum. But many of these same players once hitting in a rally with the ball at different paces and spin and having to move around the court look entirely different.
But just hitting midcourt sitters off the machine does not mean much to me. I have watched a lot of players look terrific of fed balls or ball machines serving up shots on a platter over and over which makes it easy to get a good rythum. But many of these same players once hitting in a rally with the ball at different paces and spin and having to move around the court look entirely different.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
I am guessing you have demolished a few such guys in your lifetime?
I have beaten a lot of guys with much better looking strokes than my funky swings.
tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Who are you referring to balla? I am not trying to be negative, I stated the change that I noticed. I just don't think ball machine feeds in the same spot on a platter really shows much. I would like to see his new forehand in some points or at least rallying where there is some movement and change of pace involved.
tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
Ash_Smith
Legend
@eaglesburg - great job. In the latest video your swing is not "too long" in comparison to previous videos - it is still relatively compact and the racquet arm stays on the right of the body. All in all it is an aesthetically good looking swing - biomechanically efficient to the eye, would be great to see some shots from behind so we can see the effect you are having on the ball - but great job so far.
LakeSnake
Professional
Eaglesburg, do you ever record matches? I would like to see that forehand in action. You are hitting the heck out of it. I know that I struggle to replicate my ball machine swing against live competition. My coach plays a lot of points with me nowadays and really yells at me if he sees me slow down my swing.
waves2ya
Rookie
Nice tip - thank you.
JohnYandell
Hall of Fame
If you look at video of his take back frame by frame you will be it is ATP like and stays on his right side. It's much smaller than Djokovic's! Again, as noted above by myself and others, his increased turn and semi-open stance and greater extension and more upright posture are real improvements and all this is the difference in the look of the stroke--not a change in the takeback
E
eaglesburg
Guest
Just posted before and current serve videos of my serve. Check them out. I just edited the OP.
Ihatetennis
Hall of Fame
id say toss the ball higher for a better extension at contact, but good improvement
your forcing your body to adjust by not exploding all the way up with your legs
but good progress, just try tossing higher and having your body at full extension when you serve.
your forcing your body to adjust by not exploding all the way up with your legs
but good progress, just try tossing higher and having your body at full extension when you serve.
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
From serve video now in the OP.
I look at videos and point out what I think might be differences from most better high level serves. You should compare these points for yourself using high speed videos from similar camera angles.
Frame #1. The upper arm of your hitting arm is high compared to most stronger ATP servers, where the hitting upper arm is down more in line with a line between the two shoulders. There was a long thread on this issue for Vladisova's serve. See also Ellenbecker video on the shoulder and upper arm positioning on the serve. http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...-high-elbow-in-her-serve.513485/#post-8756768
Look at the tossing side of your body and the hitting side of your body and compare to those of high level servers. In other words, compare the so-called 'hip thrust' or 'archer's bow' bend for you and high level servers. I don't know how much variation might exist among high level servers on these issues. Take care bending your body.
Frame #2. This is where your legs first thrust upward. The forearm and racket are tipped back more than what I've seen in my small sample of better high level servers. High levels servers who move continuously through Trophy Position sometimes start their leg thrust when the forearm and racket are still tipped forward - different than you. This positioning and timing may also depend on how much the chest is pointed upward. ? Actually, your forearm and racket position when the legs first thrust seems reasonable to me so it may be an option. ? ...study forearm and racket position when the legs first thrust upward.
Frame #3. This is the racket edge-on to the ball checkpoint that we mention for evaluating serves (if the racket were face-on at this point then the serve is likely a Waiter's Tray). Looks like good edge-on.
Frame #4. Just before impact. If you view the video from Frame #3 to Frame #4 you can see that the racket goes from edge on to face on to the ball because the wrist rotates with the arm. Wrist rotation in turn is caused mostly by internal shoulder rotation (ISR) of the upper arm with some pronation of the forearm also. ISR rotation, according to researchers B. Elliott et al, is estimated to contribute 40% to racket head speed at impact. This part of your serve looks good as far as I can tell. You would need better high speed video to analyze it in more detail.
Frame #5. Foot landing. Go back to Frame #2 and look at the starting point for the foot. Look at how far the foot moved between Frame #2 and Frame #5. That is not much total forward motion for the foot. Compare the forward motions of your serve to high level servers. There is a lot of variety in forward motion among servers. Raonic, a good serving model, moves forward more than most. Related to forward motion is the posture at impact as seen from the side, the trunk and arm are tilted forward and the racket is upright (as seen from the side) - see Frame #4. Some servers move forward much less than Raonic. Compare your forward motions - head, impact, landing foot - to a number of better servers and see where you fit in. Are you tossing and moving forward enough?
I look at videos and point out what I think might be differences from most better high level serves. You should compare these points for yourself using high speed videos from similar camera angles.
Frame #1. The upper arm of your hitting arm is high compared to most stronger ATP servers, where the hitting upper arm is down more in line with a line between the two shoulders. There was a long thread on this issue for Vladisova's serve. See also Ellenbecker video on the shoulder and upper arm positioning on the serve. http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...-high-elbow-in-her-serve.513485/#post-8756768
Look at the tossing side of your body and the hitting side of your body and compare to those of high level servers. In other words, compare the so-called 'hip thrust' or 'archer's bow' bend for you and high level servers. I don't know how much variation might exist among high level servers on these issues. Take care bending your body.
Frame #2. This is where your legs first thrust upward. The forearm and racket are tipped back more than what I've seen in my small sample of better high level servers. High levels servers who move continuously through Trophy Position sometimes start their leg thrust when the forearm and racket are still tipped forward - different than you. This positioning and timing may also depend on how much the chest is pointed upward. ? Actually, your forearm and racket position when the legs first thrust seems reasonable to me so it may be an option. ? ...study forearm and racket position when the legs first thrust upward.
Frame #3. This is the racket edge-on to the ball checkpoint that we mention for evaluating serves (if the racket were face-on at this point then the serve is likely a Waiter's Tray). Looks like good edge-on.
Frame #4. Just before impact. If you view the video from Frame #3 to Frame #4 you can see that the racket goes from edge on to face on to the ball because the wrist rotates with the arm. Wrist rotation in turn is caused mostly by internal shoulder rotation (ISR) of the upper arm with some pronation of the forearm also. ISR rotation, according to researchers B. Elliott et al, is estimated to contribute 40% to racket head speed at impact. This part of your serve looks good as far as I can tell. You would need better high speed video to analyze it in more detail.
Frame #5. Foot landing. Go back to Frame #2 and look at the starting point for the foot. Look at how far the foot moved between Frame #2 and Frame #5. That is not much total forward motion for the foot. Compare the forward motions of your serve to high level servers. There is a lot of variety in forward motion among servers. Raonic, a good serving model, moves forward more than most. Related to forward motion is the posture at impact as seen from the side, the trunk and arm are tilted forward and the racket is upright (as seen from the side) - see Frame #4. Some servers move forward much less than Raonic. Compare your forward motions - head, impact, landing foot - to a number of better servers and see where you fit in. Are you tossing and moving forward enough?
Last edited:
meltphace 6
Hall of Fame
@serve take your eyes off the ceiling eventually. Check out frames 4/5. That's sand in the gears.
Spin Doctor
Professional
Noticeable improvement, well done. If I were you, I would ignore a lot of the comments here and stick with yandell. 95% of posters here are not qualified to give technical instruction to anyone above 3.0.
JohnYandell
Hall of Fame
Thanks SD. Having fun working with the Eagle. He wants it!
