Tiafoe is not good.

Moose Malloy said:
Historically, most American players regularly skipped Monte Carlo since it's early in the clay season and they have a long European swing ahead of them. Paul also skipped this year. And Monte Carlo isn't a mandatory masters.
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Andre always said it was a waste to play MC because the clay/weather conditions were nothing like RG. It was also directly after Miami, which he won 6 times. Agassi only played in MC four times in his career. He even lost to Pete there in R2 in '98.
 
James P said:
I don't want to **** on him, but I've never been impressed and always wondered why he was so heavily hyped. He'll probably stick around in that 30-70 range, but I just don't expect a whole lot more out of him. Tour regular, but barely.
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let's also not let this post from the early days of the thread

barely a tour regular, guys, i think he's teaching lessons on the side to pay the bills
 
Joseph_K said:
Well done to Frances Tiafoe on reaching the Top 10 for the first time. There is no more hard-working and committed player on the tour than the American.
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Really? None? Are none more hard-working and committed? One, at least, comes to mind.
 
Rina said:
Really? None? Are none more hard-working and committed? One, at least, comes to mind.
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who? I assume you're going to say Fritz, and I like Fritz, but I don't think it's at all an outlandish opinion to be more impressed with Tiafoe's journey

one guy was born to highly successful pro tennis player parents in the Torrey Pines area of SD

one guy is slightly younger and was born to a custodian at a tennis facility in College Park, MD

I don't have anything against Fritz and other folks who are born with a leg up - my upbringing was probably closer to his than Tiafoe's - but I'll place one additional vote for Tiafoe as the guy who impresses me most in what he's accomplished in this generation of Americans

(edit - I now see the original post didn't say it had to be an American - which leads me to say 'eh, who's to say who works harder than anyone else vs who has more natural talent etc among any of these top 10-20 guys - but I don't begrudge anyone for thinking Tiafoe might have a claim to being the hardest working - subjective and possibly true - he's improved his forehand, serve, and fitness level immensely in the past few years)
 
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mikej said:
who? I assume you're going to say Fritz, and I like Fritz, but I don't think it's at all an outlandish opinion to be more impressed with Tiafoe's journey

one guy was born to highly successful pro tennis player parents in the Torrey Pines area of SD

one guy is slightly younger and was born to a custodian at a tennis facility in College Park, MD

I don't have anything against Fritz and other folks who are born with a leg up - my upbringing was probably closer to his than Tiafoe's - but I'll place one additional vote for Tiafoe as the guy who impresses me most in what he's accomplished in this generation of Americans

(edit - I now see the original post didn't say it had to be an American - which leads me to say 'eh, who's to say who works harder than anyone else vs who has more natural talent etc among any of these top 10-20 guys - but I don't begrudge anyone for thinking Tiafoe might have a claim to being the hardest working - subjective and possibly true - he's improved his forehand, serve, and fitness level immensely in the past few years)
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Methinks it’s some sort of attempt at offense taking at the mention of someone being considered possibly harder working than Novak
 
mikej said:
who? I assume you're going to say Fritz, and I like Fritz, but I don't think it's at all an outlandish opinion to be more impressed with Tiafoe's journey

one guy was born to highly successful pro tennis player parents in the Torrey Pines area of SD

one guy is slightly younger and was born to a custodian at a tennis facility in College Park, MD

I don't have anything against Fritz and other folks who are born with a leg up - my upbringing was probably closer to his than Tiafoe's - but I'll place one additional vote for Tiafoe as the guy who impresses me most in what he's accomplished in this generation of Americans

(edit - I now see the original post didn't say it had to be an American - which leads me to say 'eh, who's to say who works harder than anyone else vs who has more natural talent etc among any of these top 10-20 guys - but I don't begrudge anyone for thinking Tiafoe might have a claim to being the hardest working - subjective and possibly true - he's improved his forehand, serve, and fitness level immensely in the past few years)
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Wins in 3R of slams and later rounds:

Tiafoe: 8
Fritz: 3
 
First off, really happy for Big Foe and a nice grass court trophy. That final match was a tough one (playing a German in Germany), but he stayed really focused and never dropped his level.

I hope some of the haters saw the match, because it seems impossible to me that anyone could seen it and not be impressed by Tiafoe, and tempted to root for him (even if Stuff's story was also compelling).

Joseph_K said:
Well done to Frances Tiafoe on reaching the Top 10 for the first time. There is no more hard-working and committed player on the tour than the American.
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As others have said, this is a pretty bold statement. In general, I don't like any of these "hardest working" statements, even when some of the players talk about their own level of work.

While there might be a handful of exceptions, I'm pretty sure that everyone in the top 100 has worked really, really hard to get there and stay there. And you can bet that the guys just outside the top 100 are working their butts off to make that one final push and break into the regular tour (and good money). And you can also bet that the guys from 150-500 are working their butts off to be in a position to make some money and get on the tour.

So yeah, the exception to the rule is anyone that IS NOT working hard, as opposed to those that are.

happyandbob said:
I couldn’t be happier for him. I really really like this generation of American men. Good players and good kids.
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I don't know. I like this generation, but the bar for American men is pretty high. There have been really great players pretty recently (Sampras), and then even some greats with compelling personalities (Agassi, McEnroe, Connors).

These guys are all just that little bit bland, or not quite at the top level. Paul, Nakashima, McDonald, Wolf, Giron... are just a little "meh." Korda has a nice game, but seems pretty boring and gets hurt a lot. Brooksby is sort of compelling, but his game is a little funky and he's also missed a lot of time. Cressy is a breath of fresh air with the Serve and Volley, but his results haven't been good lately. I loved what Fritz did to the French Open crowd two weeks ago, but overall I just can't really get into rooting for him. Something about him is just a little unlikable, and his game is pretty boring for me. That leave Foe, who has potential to be a star, but needs a few more big results, and Shelton, whose youthful exuberance is great to watch, but he's still early in his journey.
 
Really happy for Tiafoe! Been a fan of his since his orange bowl win over Kozlov was released on YouTube lol. Amazing players and so charismatic. He seems like such a kind human as well. Happy for him to crack the top ten. May not be a grand slam contender but he’s truly a special player to me
 
robyrolfo said:
These guys are all just that little bit bland, or not quite at the top level. Paul, Nakashima, McDonald, Wolf, Giron... are just a little "meh." Korda has a nice game, but seems pretty boring and gets hurt a lot. Brooksby is sort of compelling, but his game is a little funky and he's also missed a lot of time. Cressy is a breath of fresh air with the Serve and Volley, but his results haven't been good lately. I loved what Fritz did to the French Open crowd two weeks ago, but overall I just can't really get into rooting for him. Something about him is just a little unlikable, and his game is pretty boring for me. That leave Foe, who has potential to be a star, but needs a few more big results, and Shelton, whose youthful exuberance is great to watch, but he's still early in his journey.
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Paul and Wolf meh? Each to their own but I find both of those guys exciting to watch. Wolf because of his aggressive play and weapons and Paul because of his all court game. I also like watching McDonald a bit because of his quickness and ability to hang with the top players.
 
mikej said:
Lol, like most sports the level consistently improves over time with increasing population and improved training, and the physical demands of being a (and level required to be a) top 10 tennis player have likely never been higher, but go on :)
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Exactly - laughing at the posters who think the guys from the 60's, 70's and 80's who would stay out all night drinking beer and raising hell and show up the next morning to play with a hangover could hang with todays professionals.
 
mikej said:
Lol, like most sports the level consistently improves over time with increasing population and improved training, and the physical demands of being a (and level required to be a) top 10 tennis player have likely never been higher, but go on :)
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This is false. There are more people but less and less are going to tennis, especially pro tennis. This has been going on for the last few decades. Boxing went through the same thing and is now basically dead.
They peaked in the 70’s and 80’s. Unfortunately, it’s been downhill ever since.
 
Benf15harp said:
This is false. There are more people but less and less are going to tennis, especially pro tennis. This has been going on for the last few decades. Boxing went through the same thing and is now basically dead.
They peaked in the 70’s and 80’s. Unfortunately, it’s been downhill ever since.
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www.usta.com

U.S. tennis participation grew for third straight year in 2022

U.S. tennis participation grew by 1 million players in 2022 with more than 23.6 million playing the sport–the third consecutive year that the sport has seen an increase.
www.usta.com www.usta.com

stellaralgo.com

The Growth of Tennis in the past five years and what that means for major tennis tournaments | StellarAlgo

Tennis has seen a substantial increase in interest in the past year. Attendance records are being set across the board for North American tournaments. Tennis is currently ranked as the 4th most popular sport globally (according to World Atlas), with an estimated following of over 1 Billion people.
stellaralgo.com stellaralgo.com

Seems like your side of the argument could use some data to support it. Tennis participation is significantly up recently in North America, as is pro tournament attendance. Please share your data re: ‘less and less people going to tennis, especially pro tennis.’ Do you know the number of people with a pro tennis ranking in the 70s vs today - for example - since this could support your claim?
 
1. there’s only so many people that can be ranked< 4000
2. Boost in tennis participation is pandemic related. It will decline now.
3. Attendance is the result of more humans
 
from personal experience i can say that little foe is a great character but he’s an average tour level player at best. Barely over 50% career win percentage. He beat a broken rafa WOW so did Mack McDonald is he top 10? No.
if you ask him what he’d wish for he’d say: to be 6 inches taller so I might make the nba. The end.
 
Nice, in two posts you demonstrated you 1) don’t have any data to back up your claims, but rather excuses for data that demonstrates the opposite 2) you’re a disrespectful idiot towards Tiafoe (‘little foe’ / calling him an average tour player when ranking demonstrates the opposite / NBA remarks) which I’m sure has nothing to do with him being a successful black tennis player

Sorry to say I won’t be able to view any of your future posts, tragic
 
robyrolfo said:
I don't know. I like this generation, but the bar for American men is pretty high. There have been really great players pretty recently (Sampras), and then even some greats with compelling personalities (Agassi, McEnroe, Connors).

These guys are all just that little bit bland, or not quite at the top level. Paul, Nakashima, McDonald, Wolf, Giron... are just a little "meh." Korda has a nice game, but seems pretty boring and gets hurt a lot. Brooksby is sort of compelling, but his game is a little funky and he's also missed a lot of time. Cressy is a breath of fresh air with the Serve and Volley, but his results haven't been good lately. I loved what Fritz did to the French Open crowd two weeks ago, but overall I just can't really get into rooting for him. Something about him is just a little unlikable, and his game is pretty boring for me. That leave Foe, who has potential to be a star, but needs a few more big results, and Shelton, whose youthful exuberance is great to watch, but he's still early in his journey.
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I guess if you're basing it on a generation producing an elite player, then I see where you are coming from. I don't hold out any hope that any of them will win a slam or be a consistently top 5 player. I like the variety of their games and backgrounds and how seriously they take the game. The one with the most physical potential is actually the one I like the least -- Korda. He loses a lot of matches he should easily win, even going back to juniors. When the going gets tough, he starts getting phantom injuries, it's hard to watch.

The rest of them are fighters and workers and they're all constantly improving and adding variety. If Jack Sock had any of their work ethic he'd have been a top 5 player. (and not a servebot among the bunch :p )
 
Benf15harp said:
little foe is a great character but he’s an average tour level player at best
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Why the personal animus toward Tiafoe? You're losing any chance of making a point by showing personal bias against him, especially calling a top 10 player average at best -- meaning there are only 9 "above average" tennis players in the world?

Benf15harp said:
if you ask him what he’d wish for he’d say: to be 6 inches taller so I might make the nba. The end.
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ahh, never mind. I understand now.
 
Benf15harp said:
Look at the top 100 ranking. It’s just loaded with bad players
If anyone truly believes Frances is one of the top 10 players in the world then they are bananas.
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He's top 10 relative to everybody who is currently top 100. Are you implying that current rankings relate to relative position *of all time*?
 
dont-feed-troll.jpg
 
atatu said:
Exactly - laughing at the posters who think the guys from the 60's, 70's and 80's who would stay out all night drinking beer and raising hell and show up the next morning to play with a hangover could hang with todays professionals.
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Well yeah, but the game seemed much more skill based back then, with the different equipment, and said skill could overcome some possibly fitness deficiencies. I mean, McEnroe never looked like a particularly amazing athlete, but he had one of the best seasons in the history of the sport.

I bet some of today's super fit and super well-trained professionals would have a really hard time playing with small wooden racquets. It's almost like a different sport now.
mikej said:
Nice, in two posts you demonstrated you 1) don’t have any data to back up your claims, but rather excuses for data that demonstrates the opposite 2) you’re a disrespectful idiot towards Tiafoe (‘little foe’ / calling him an average tour player when ranking demonstrates the opposite / NBA remarks) which I’m sure has nothing to do with him being a successful black tennis player

Sorry to say I won’t be able to view any of your future posts, tragic
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Look, the guy is clearly over the top, but muting/blocking him makes you no better than he is. And to be fair, his claim was about participation since the 60's and 70's, while you posted data that only applies to the past few years.

happyandbob said:
I guess if you're basing it on a generation producing an elite player, then I see where you are coming from. I don't hold out any hope that any of them will win a slam or be a consistently top 5 player. I like the variety of their games and backgrounds and how seriously they take the game. The one with the most physical potential is actually the one I like the least -- Korda. He loses a lot of matches he should easily win, even going back to juniors. When the going gets tough, he starts getting phantom injuries, it's hard to watch.

The rest of them are fighters and workers and they're all constantly improving and adding variety. If Jack Sock had any of their work ethic he'd have been a top 5 player. (and not a servebot among the bunch :p )
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I see your point, and I don't mean to imply that they are bad or unwatchable. I just don't seek out their matches like I do with some other players, with Tiafoe and Shelton being the only exceptions right now (and maybe Cressy). But we definitely agree that it's nice to have the servebots out of the way for the moment, at least until Opelka comes back.

Benf15harp said:
Imagine saving this image lmao
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Ok, I tried to stick up for you a little bit (see above), but you really do seem to be asking for it...
 
robyrolfo said:
Well yeah, but the game seemed much more skill based back then, with the different equipment, and said skill could overcome some possibly fitness deficiencies. I mean, McEnroe never looked like a particularly amazing athlete, but he had one of the best seasons in the history of the sport.

I bet some of today's super fit and super well-trained professionals would have a really hard time playing with small wooden racquets. It's almost like a different sport now.

Look, the guy is clearly over the top, but muting/blocking him makes you no better than he is. And to be fair, his claim was about participation since the 60's and 70's, while you posted data that only applies to the past few years.


I see your point, and I don't mean to imply that they are bad or unwatchable. I just don't seek out their matches like I do with some other players, with Tiafoe and Shelton being the only exceptions right now (and maybe Cressy). But we definitely agree that it's nice to have the servebots out of the way for the moment, at least until Opelka comes back.


Ok, I tried to stick up for you a little bit (see above), but you really do seem to be asking for it...
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I appreciate it.
 
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