Tighter Mains vs Tighter Crosses? ChatGPT results

[MSUspartans777]

I've recently been testing tighter tensions in the crosses vs the mains and have enjoyed it. I've never experimented with more than 3 lbs differential and wondered what ChatGPT said about the subject. Here are the results.

Mains @ 58 lbs and Crosses @ 54 lbs

• Increased Control: The higher tension in the mains can provide increased control over the direction and placement of your shots. This can be particularly beneficial for players who prefer a more precise and consistent feel on their groundstrokes and volleys.
• Reduced Power: Higher tension in the mains typically results in reduced power compared to lower tensions. This can be advantageous for players who generate sufficient power through their strokes and seek additional control without sacrificing too much power.
• Tighter String Bed: With the mains at a higher tension, the string bed will feel tighter and less forgiving on off-center hits. This can result in a more "boardy" or responsive feel, which some players may prefer for enhanced shot-making precision.
• Less String Movement: The tighter mains are less likely to move or snap back during ball impact, resulting in reduced string movement and potentially fewer mishits. This can contribute to a more consistent and predictable response from the racket.
• Stiffer Feel: A higher tension setup can result in a stiffer overall feel, which may be less comfortable for some players, especially those with arm or wrist issues. It's essential to pay attention to how your body responds to the increased tension and make adjustments if necessary.
• String Durability: Higher tensions generally place more stress on the strings, which can lead to increased string tension loss over time and potentially reduced string life. However, this may vary depending on factors such as string material, gauge, and playing style.

Mains @ 54 lbs and Crosses @ 58 lbs

• Increased Power: With the lower tension in the mains, you can expect to generate more power and depth on your shots compared to the higher tension in the crosses. This can be advantageous for players who rely on power to dictate points or who seek additional pop from their racket.
• Enhanced Comfort: Lower tension in the mains typically results in a more forgiving and comfortable feel on ball impact. This can help reduce shock and vibration transmitted to the arm, making it a preferable option for players who prioritize comfort and arm health.
• More String Movement: The tighter crosses are more likely to grip and bite into the mains during ball contact, resulting in increased string movement and potential snapback. This can contribute to enhanced spin potential and playability, allowing for greater control and maneuverability on shots.
• Less Control: The higher tension in the crosses may lead to slightly less control and precision compared to a traditional tension setup where the mains are tighter. Players who rely heavily on control for shot placement may find this setup less ideal, especially on off-center hits.
• String Durability: The tighter crosses may experience increased stress and tension, potentially leading to accelerated tension loss and reduced string life over time. However, this may vary depending on factors such as string material, gauge, and playing style.

What does everyone think?

 

[Chairman3]

The usual mostly canned responses that explain them in a lengthy way to make it seem like it really said something significant and legitimizes it.

None of the responses were informative with new information

 

[MSUspartans777]

So what is the main takeaway? String Mains higher than the crosses for more control? String the crosses higher for more spin?

 

[maksp]

I got more spin with higher mains n looser cross

 

[travlerajm]

I've recently been testing tighter tensions in the crosses vs the mains and have enjoyed it. I've never experimented with more than 3 lbs differential and wondered what ChatGPT said about the subject. Here are the results.

Mains @ 58 lbs and Crosses @ 54 lbs

• Increased Control: The higher tension in the mains can provide increased control over the direction and placement of your shots. This can be particularly beneficial for players who prefer a more precise and consistent feel on their groundstrokes and volleys.
• Reduced Power: Higher tension in the mains typically results in reduced power compared to lower tensions. This can be advantageous for players who generate sufficient power through their strokes and seek additional control without sacrificing too much power.
• Tighter String Bed: With the mains at a higher tension, the string bed will feel tighter and less forgiving on off-center hits. This can result in a more "boardy" or responsive feel, which some players may prefer for enhanced shot-making precision.
• Less String Movement: The tighter mains are less likely to move or snap back during ball impact, resulting in reduced string movement and potentially fewer mishits. This can contribute to a more consistent and predictable response from the racket.
• Stiffer Feel: A higher tension setup can result in a stiffer overall feel, which may be less comfortable for some players, especially those with arm or wrist issues. It's essential to pay attention to how your body responds to the increased tension and make adjustments if necessary.
• String Durability: Higher tensions generally place more stress on the strings, which can lead to increased string tension loss over time and potentially reduced string life. However, this may vary depending on factors such as string material, gauge, and playing style.

Mains @ 54 lbs and Crosses @ 58 lbs

• Increased Power: With the lower tension in the mains, you can expect to generate more power and depth on your shots compared to the higher tension in the crosses. This can be advantageous for players who rely on power to dictate points or who seek additional pop from their racket.
• Enhanced Comfort: Lower tension in the mains typically results in a more forgiving and comfortable feel on ball impact. This can help reduce shock and vibration transmitted to the arm, making it a preferable option for players who prioritize comfort and arm health.
• More String Movement: The tighter crosses are more likely to grip and bite into the mains during ball contact, resulting in increased string movement and potential snapback. This can contribute to enhanced spin potential and playability, allowing for greater control and maneuverability on shots.
• Less Control: The higher tension in the crosses may lead to slightly less control and precision compared to a traditional tension setup where the mains are tighter. Players who rely heavily on control for shot placement may find this setup less ideal, especially on off-center hits.
• String Durability: The tighter crosses may experience increased stress and tension, potentially leading to accelerated tension loss and reduced string life over time. However, this may vary depending on factors such as string material, gauge, and playing style.

What does everyone think?

That’s pretty dumb AI, wait a year and ask again.

 

[drakulie]

By any chance were you able to get a SBD (string bed deflection) reading on each string bed?

 

[MSUspartans777]

That’s pretty dumb AI, wait a year and ask again.

Could you clarify what's dumb about the response? Legitimate question. I generally only string the crosses higher when I use a softer cross string

 

[travlerajm]

Could you clarify what's dumb about the response? Legitimate question. I generally only string the crosses higher when I use a softer cross string

I have gone to extremes as far as 50 lbs different, and was stringing at 90/40 a few years ago.

A few lbs differential will not be very noticeable because the frame changes shape to offset the difference. But once you get to 5-10 lbs you can definitely feel the pros and cons of going in either direction.

Mains tighter than crosses will give higher launch angle sensitivity to the incoming ball, softer feel, and greater spin potential (provided the overall bed tension is high enough). You need to string tighter average tension to compensate for the higher launch angle.

Crosses tighter than mains gives better launch angle control, tighter feel, and less spinny response. You can string looser average tension to compensate.

In general, the higher the mains relative to crosses, the more freedom for in-plane string movement and snapback effect. The higher the crosses, the more the mains are locked into place.

A spin reliant player might enjoy tighter mains. A precision reliant player or flat hitter might enjoy tighter crosses.

 

[MSUspartans777]

I have gone to extremes as far as 50 lbs different, and was stringing at 90/40 a few years ago.

A few lbs differential will not be very noticeable because the frame changes shape to offset the difference. But once you get to 5-10 lbs you can definitely feel the pros and cons of going in either direction.

Mains tighter than crosses will give higher launch angle sensitivity to the incoming ball, softer feel, and greater spin potential (provided the overall bed tension is high enough). You need to string tighter average tension to compensate for the higher launch angle.

Crosses tighter than mains gives better launch angle control, tighter feel, and less spinny response. You can string looser average tension to compensate.

In general, the higher the mains relative to crosses, the more freedom for in-plane string movement and snapback effect. The higher the crosses, the more the mains are locked into place.

A spin reliant player might enjoy tighter mains. A precision reliant player or flat hitter might enjoy tighter crosses.

Thanks for such a detailed response. So you believe in order to feel a difference the differential should be around 10lbs?

 

[travlerajm]

Thanks for such a detailed response. So you believe in order to feel a difference the differential should be around 10lbs?

With full poly, stringing mains 10 lbs tighter will give you a good idea of whether you like the more pockety feel and extra spin better.

Another potential advantage of mains tighter is that it makes the noticing happen more on the mains and less on the crosses, but this only applies to some poly’s not all, as some poly’s don’t have the problem of crosses notching.

 

[ryohazuki222]

If you’re using chat gpt; the more interesting results come from experimenting or ACTING like you experimented to give it new information and then see what explanation is provided.

Example:
I had asked gpt about tension differential from lockout to constant pull. It recommended 2-3 pounds difference (probably scraping “common knowledge” from these forums).

Then I tried that because gpt plus internet was aligned. I told gpt it was wrong because it’s more like 5-6 pounds different based on my hands on experience.

If it’s generally in agreement it’ll adjust. But if something is off it does a decent job of catching it and and explaining “why that’s a weird/unexpected result”.

It’s in interesting partner.

Fwiw; I don’t know how you are promoting but I get better results by telling gpt to explain the actual science to me.

Note that often gpt conflicts with itself. It’ll say multiple things that logically can’t all be true. Don’t forget to argue back

 

[PRS]

Thanks for such a detailed response. So you believe in order to feel a difference the differential should be around 10lbs?

travelerjam uses extreme setups that are not recommended for most players. It works for him and that's great, but very few people will actually recommend going any more than 5 pounds different between the mains and crosses. It can put unnatural stress on the frame. He is right that many people won't really notice a significant difference if there's only 3 pounds different, but that doesn't mean you should use a 10+ pound differential.

Experiment with it if you want, you're definitely more likely to notice the results that way, just keep in mind that it's generally not recommended to have that big of a differential.

 

[travlerajm]

The reason I’m not using high differentials anymore is that the effect is not permanent. The differential dissipates as the mains relax, causing the squashed hoop to relax back close to its original shape, which in turn causes the weighting spec to change.

That first hour at 25 lbs plus differential is magic. But I’m not someone with the patience to string frequently. I prefer to string it up with a more stable setup that I can forget about it for months. So I prestretch thoroughly without any differential these days.

 

[MSUspartans777]

At what differential will it or could it be detrimental to my frame? I don't want to damage any racquets

 

[travlerajm]

At what differential will it or could it be detrimental to my frame? I don't want to damage any racquets

I have strung many frames at 50 lbs differential, and the frame always bounces back 100% when i cut out the strings.

 

[PRS]

At what differential will it or could it be detrimental to my frame? I don't want to damage any racquets

I don't recommend going past 5. I think 10 there's very little risk of anything happening, but I definitely wouldn't go past. Traveler has had the frame bounce back, but carbon fiber isn't made for repeated bending and bouncing back, so it's best to minimize that.

 

[travlerajm]

Keep in mind that even when you string both crosses and mains at same reference tension, the mains have 30% more tension until it’s popped off the stringer. That 30% differential reduces to much lower than that when the hoop shortens by a mm or so.

When I string with 50 lbs differential, a typical 98 shortens by 5mm. A 90 by 3-4mm, a 105 by 6 or 7mm.

They all bounce back. I don’t think the deformation is as damaging to the frame compared to hitting a return of serve on the stringbed.

 

[PRS]

They all bounce back. I don’t think the deformation is as damaging to the frame compared to hitting a return of serve on the stringbed.

Hitting the ball on the strings doesn't deform the frame in the same way or as much.

And we can see an example of repeated stress on carbon fiber by looking at OceanGate and their submersible to see the Titanic. The reason submersibles like that are generally not made out of carbon fiber is because repeated stress and bending eventually leads to failure in carbon fiber. Carbon fiber is strong. It can bounce back from stress a lot (they've made that trip multiple times in the past). But eventually, through repeated stress, carbon fiber will fail.

Racquets repeatedly put under the unnecessary stress of high differentials will fail eventually. I don't know how long it will take. For all I know it could take 10 years of stringing at 30 pounds different every single week before a racquet will fail. Or it could be a lot sooner. And I don't want to be stringing a racquet when it fails, because carbon fiber and graphite shards can be extremely painful, damaging, and difficult to remove. So, to play it safe, I will never string at high differentials or recommend it to anybody. Yeah, it'll probably be fine for quite a while, but I'd rather not find out how long.

 

[travlerajm]

Hitting the ball on the strings doesn't deform the frame in the same way or as much.

And we can see an example of repeated stress on carbon fiber by looking at OceanGate and their submersible to see the Titanic. The reason submersibles like that are generally not made out of carbon fiber is because repeated stress and bending eventually leads to failure in carbon fiber. Carbon fiber is strong. It can bounce back from stress a lot (they've made that trip multiple times in the past). But eventually, through repeated stress, carbon fiber will fail.

Racquets repeatedly put under the unnecessary stress of high differentials will fail eventually. I don't know how long it will take. For all I know it could take 10 years of stringing at 30 pounds different every single week before a racquet will fail. Or it could be a lot sooner. And I don't want to be stringing a racquet when it fails, because carbon fiber and graphite shards can be extremely painful, damaging, and difficult to remove. So, to play it safe, I will never string at high differentials or recommend it to anybody. Yeah, it'll probably be fine for quite a while, but I'd rather not find out how long.

They usually last fine until they slip out of my hand on a serve and hit hard angle into the hardcourt.

 

[MSUspartans777]

Just strung up my Ezone Tour at 56 / 52 with Zero / Poly Tour Pro. I know we've been talking about much higher differentials but I want to start slow. I've only used a 3 lb difference up to this point.

 

[JustTennis76]

@MSUspartans777 Just ignore the chat GPT results and don’t let its output control what setups work for you. You are the best judge in knowing after you try it yourself.
I’m sure the ChatGPT results are based on real person feedback.

 

[maksp]

Just strung up my Ezone Tour at 56 / 52 with Zero / Poly Tour Pro. I know we've been talking about much higher differentials but I want to start slow. I've only used a 2 lb difference up to this point.

Why poly tour pro in cross and not full bed zero? Ptp loses tension fast and is not as slick as zero...slicker crosses worked better for me

 

[MaiTai]

If you ask Chatgpt to spit out the sources of your post, it‘ll give you some links.
Most stuff comes from tennis.com, holabirdsports, blog on guts & glory tennis, This TT Thread and TWU - Spin and Friction.

 

[devoker]

Chatgpt just predicts sentences that might sound statistically meaningful. They don't need to be true.

 

[LOBALOT]

Why poly tour pro in cross and not full bed zero? Ptp loses tension fast and is not as slick as zero...slicker crosses worked better for me

Right plus it is not a legit experiment of the 2 strings are different as they have different characteristics.

 

[MSUspartans777]

Why poly tour pro in cross and not full bed zero? Ptp loses tension fast and is not as slick as zero...slicker crosses worked better for me

I'm a fan of Zero but I find that it's a very powerful string so a full bed isn't my cup of tea. Blending it with a more controlled, low powered poly has helped reign it in. I really like a shaped string in the mains and a round, relatively soft string in the cross. I've been rotating out different round strings recently to figure out which ones I prefer. Others of note that have been great with Zero are Sync, Hawk Power, and Enso Pro.

 

[maksp]

I'm a fan of Zero but I find that it's a very powerful string so a full bed isn't my cup of tea. Blending it with a more controlled, low powered poly has helped reign it in. I really like a shaped string in the mains and a round, relatively soft string in the cross. I've been rotating out different round strings recently to figure out which ones I prefer. Others of note that have been great with Zero are Sync, Hawk Power, and Enso Pro.

Have you tried blue poly tour pro? It more slick then yellow n has better tension maintenance...msv bussard also works for me as cross...also signum Polaris,aster poly,kirschbaum evolution

 

[MSUspartans777]

Appreciate the tip, I will definitely try PTP Blue next. The Ezone played really well with Zero / PTP Yellow at 56 / 52. I'll make not of the other strings as well. I love testing new strings.