Time for Djokovic to exit gracefully

Fedforever said:
Are we about to go through the whole "ruining his legacy" crap that we got with Federer?

He should play for as long as he wants.
Click to expand...
I am thinking selfishly. I don‘t want to stay up late or wake up early to watch his matches and then see him play like a mediocre player which doesn’t entertain me. He has enough star appeal still to make me tune in, but his level has not been entertaining for me except for the Olympic final last year. It was the same with Nadal’s matches last year where I tuned in and then switched the channel after a while as it wasn’t the same guy physically anymore.

With Djokovic, it is not even a physical deterioration, but a seeming inability to lift his level especially when behind a break in an set and also sub-par serving that has plagued him all year. Makes me wonder how hard he is practicing since he broke up his team a year ago. I suspect he is not working hard on his game as he used to and if so, he might as well retire because he is not going to stay in the top 10.
 
socallefty said:
He has enough star appeal still to make me tune in
Click to expand...
Conversely, for me, I despise his game so much that I missed watching tons of major finals. I’ll be happy to see him retire.

But, tbh, I was also happy to see Fed & Nadal retire. I’ve been bored with all of them for a few years now. Looking forward to what the you guys can do.
 

I've got a little bit left, I know
That I can give a little bit, ah
I've got a little bit left, I know
That I can give a little bit, ah

It's starting all over again
I feel my heart beat quickening
Anachronistic, a young mystic
He's prowling around in the night
Under a shadow wherever we go
Whatever I need to survive

We go down down to the deep void
Right back into place, I can breathe again
We go down down to the beat boy
Right back into place
From where we are, we're never gonna come back
From where we are, we're never gonna come back

I am ecstatic like a hymn
In that the feeling's disciplined
Apocalyptic, my own mystic
I'm moving right into the end
Under a shadow wherever we go
Our features again and again

We go down down to the deep void
Right back into place, I can breathe again
We go down down to the beat boy
Right back into place
From where we are, we're never gonna come back
From where we are, we're never gonna come back

I've got a little bit left, I know
That I can give a little bit, ah
I've got a little bit left, I know that I can give a little bit, ah

We could die tonight
We could die tonight
Oh my god I feel like I'm dying
Die tonight, we could die tonight
Oh my god I feel like I'm dying

From where we are, we're never gonna come back
From where we are, we're never gonna come back
From where we are, we're never gonna come back
From where we are, we're never gonna come back
 
djokovic dropping hard all of a sudden makes sense... rogers game and even rafas was more aggressive,
and thats what you need when you get older. i saw djokovic last year serve and volley more but it looks like he doesnt
practice it very much.... roger was doing serve+1's until his very last match.
 
Time for Murray to prove himself! If it doesn't work, what's 4 more slams? So that duo don't ever look back and regret!
 
Sport said:
Opelka played phenomenal, it's not like Novak was playing particularly bad, the giant servebot was zoning.
Click to expand...
Djokovic movement is one thing that is still near elite. The balls he ran down. Last year post injury, he was far more tentative.
 
big ted said:
djokovic dropping hard all of a sudden makes sense... rogers game and even rafas was more aggressive,
and thats what you need when you get older. i saw djokovic last year serve and volley more but it looks like he doesnt
practice it very much.... roger was doing serve+1's until his very last match.
Click to expand...
Nadal's game is never aggressive fedfan. That's why he struggled. At Djokovic's age, Nadal was getting injured every time he stepped on the court.

Djokovic is more aggressive than Nadal always has been
 
It may be that Novak will achieve nothing of significance, but man, can we at least give it one slam or really, a year's worth of slams, before any grand pronouncements?
His results were still quite competitive last year (if not by "Big 3" standards) and that was following a 3-slam season.
Give him a little time.
 
RaulRamirez said:
It may be that Novak will achieve nothing of significance, but man, can we at least give it one slam or really, a year's worth of slams, before any grand pronouncements?
His results were still quite competitive last year (if not by "Big 3" standards) and that was following a 3-slam season.
Give him a little time.
Click to expand...
He is playing top 5-8 level tennis. If Fritz has chance, so does Nole. Anyone counting him out is just hater.

The real question is can he go beyond 5-8 level? For a world number 7, this loss is absolutely acceptable. No worries.
 
socallefty said:
I am thinking selfishly. I don‘t want to stay up late or wake up early to watch his matches and then see him play like a mediocre player which doesn’t entertain me. He has enough star appeal still to make me tune in, but his level has not been entertaining for me except for the Olympic final last year. It was the same with Nadal’s matches last year where I tuned in and then switched the channel after a while as it wasn’t the same guy physically anymore.

With Djokovic, it is not even a physical deterioration, but a seeming inability to lift his level especially when behind a break in an set and also sub-par serving that has plagued him all year. Makes me wonder how hard he is practicing since he broke up his team a year ago. I suspect he is not working hard on his game as he used to and if so, he might as well retire because he is not going to stay in the top 10.
Click to expand...
That all makes sense. Its likely he's at the stage where he's reliant on other people being injured or getting knocked out early rather than being master of his own destiny. Maybe he'll decide he doesn't want the grind anymore.

I just don't want the same rubbish we got with Federer - and even with Murray a bit - about how they're "ruining their legacies". It's just a stupid concept and these guys have earned the right to live their lives as they please.
 
This loss in a warm up tournament to opelka means nothing. Djoker beat Carlos on pc clay for the og, pointing to an available high level. Still think sinner is the biggest obstacle, followed by a zverev in peak form (which almost never happens), and then tiny. Rest of the tour is a cake walk.
 
Arak said:
It would be a wise decision but somehow I don’t think he will be any different than Federer or Nadal. He will keep on playing until he can’t win anymore.
Click to expand...
He doesn’t have an injury like the other two. So he is perfectly healthy. Maybe he doesn’t want to win Brisbane?
 
timnz said:
Throughout Djokovic’s entire career he has lost against a lower ranked players. If so,should have he, according to your statement, “exited Gracefully’ then? Eg in 2017 and first 1/2 of 2018? he is a great champion, only he knows when it is time to go. I suspect he is simply not match fit as he didn’t play much in late 2024.
Click to expand...
Is Opelka more match fit?
 
The way seeds are lined up , we can expect Zverev, Fritz, Ruud and Djokovic on one side and Alcaraz, Sinner, Med and De Manure on the other .

Djokovic can hope for a long Alcaraz Sinner SF so he can have good chances in the finals
 
ND-13 said:
The way seeds are lined up , we can expect Zverev, Fritz, Ruud and Djokovic on one side and Alcaraz, Sinner, Med and De Manure on the other .

Djokovic can hope for a long Alcaraz Sinner SF so he can have good chances in the finals
Click to expand...
07113673f8ef7de21b09c84aa72420c9
 
The Australian Open will be the litmus test of the season whatever the verdict.
Everyone is talking about Djokovic, but I am also very curious to see the level that the various Sinners, Zverevs, Alcarazs, Medvedevs and Fritzs will be able to show.
The off season can change a lot of things.
I don't know why but I expect a version of Medvedev at the level of his best versions.
 
Winner Sinner said:
The Australian Open will be the litmus test of the season whatever the verdict.
Everyone is talking about Djokovic, but I am also very curious to see the level that the various Sinners, Zverevs, Alcarazs, Medvedevs and Fritzs will be able to show.
The off season can change a lot of things.
I don't know why but I expect a version of Medvedev at the level of his best versions.
Click to expand...
Medvedev was something like 23-14 or something since RG last year. He is in deep deep DEEP trouble.

Since start of RG win loss

Sinner 48-4
Alcaraz 36-8
Djokovic 24-5
Zverev 43-14
Medvedev 23-14
 
Others posted that the Vegas odds were -2500 for this match. It might be the biggest upset of Djoker's career. Losing to Frankenstein.
Nobody expected this. Everyone is shocked and saddened.
Meanwhile while Rome is burning Coach Murray is MIA. Skiing in the Alps.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Andy Murray hits the ski slopes on family holiday

Andy Murray was spotted enjoying his New Year skiing instead of coaching his new charge Novak Djokovic in Australia, where he has kicked off his 2025 season at the Brisbane International.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
Last edited:
nolefam_2024 said:
Medvedev was something like 23-14 or something since RG last year. He is in deep deep DEEP trouble.

Since start of RG win loss

Sinner 48-4
Alcaraz 36-8
Djokovic 24-5
Zverev 43-14
Medvedev 23-14
Click to expand...
Medvedev has already shown in the past that he can change inertia, plus he is a 3 out of 5 animal.
Last year he gave his best precisely in the majors, the final at the Australian Open where he was one set away from winning the tournament, the semifinal at Wimbledon after eliminating Sinner, a goal that for him in the London major is the maximum he can aspire to, and the quarterfinals reached at the US Open where before surrendering to Sinner (the only one to snatch a set from the Italian from the second round onwards) he got there leaving only one set on the road.
I would not underestimate the Russian, even if we know that everything begins and ends with his incisiveness in service.
If he finds an elite service again he can beat anyone on hard surfaces.
 
Winner Sinner said:
Medvedev has already shown in the past that he can change inertia, plus he is a 3 out of 5 animal.
Last year he gave his best precisely in the majors, the final at the Australian Open where he was one set away from winning the tournament, the semifinal at Wimbledon after eliminating Sinner, a goal that for him in the London major is the maximum he can aspire to, and the quarterfinals reached at the US Open where before surrendering to Sinner (the only one to snatch a set from the Italian from the second round onwards) he got there leaving only one set on the road.
I would not underestimate the Russian, even if we know that everything begins and ends with his incisiveness in service.
If he finds an elite service again he can beat anyone on hard surfaces.
Click to expand...
I have huge respect for Medvedev for the player he is. His problem is ongoing for more than a year and still he ends year at number 5.

At 63.9% serve pts won, he is far below the top guys right now. I am not sure if he can make changes in before AO.

63.9 is absolutely pedestrian. Sinner had better numbers in 2021 at age 19/20. And Sinner himself struggled on serve then.
 
I don't see why he would or should go, gracefully or otherwise.
He has a chance of winning a slam this year, and while i doubt he will, if there's a possibility, why not stick around and give it a shot.
He's not gonna be around for too much longer anyway, so it makes sense to give all he has one last time on the off chance.
 
Last edited:
socallefty said:
I am thinking selfishly. I don‘t want to stay up late or wake up early to watch his matches and then see him play like a mediocre player which doesn’t entertain me. He has enough star appeal still to make me tune in, but his level has not been entertaining for me except for the Olympic final last year. It was the same with Nadal’s matches last year where I tuned in and then switched the channel after a while as it wasn’t the same guy physically anymore.

With Djokovic, it is not even a physical deterioration, but a seeming inability to lift his level especially when behind a break in an set and also sub-par serving that has plagued him all year. Makes me wonder how hard he is practicing since he broke up his team a year ago. I suspect he is not working hard on his game as he used to and if so, he might as well retire because he is not going to stay in the top 10.
Click to expand...
Are there any specific stats on his service decline? IMO he only really served sub-par at the US Open, most of the other tourneys he played in 2024 didn't seem to have worse serving than 2023, although he didn't play the ATP finals where it would have been tough to replicate his 2023 performance. Eye test alone he seemed to serve better at Wim 24 than Wim 23, where the wind really seemed to trouble his rhythm. Hard to gauge at RG 24 due to the knee injury, although the serve probably isn't as important as it is on clay. The serve probably bailed him out at AO 24 too, where he was being matched or even pushed off the ground by lesser opponents in R1 and R2, and got brutalised by Sinner in the SF. The drop in level there seemed to be more related to an inability to keep 5 rally balls in a row when challenged by the weight of Jannik's ball.
 
Lately Djokovic has been showing ups and downs where he would lose focus and/or energy. The first few matches in Brisbane looked good, so there is still hope. I think BO5 in major slams give him the luxury of wondering for a set or 2 before getting back on track to win the match.
 
Winner Sinner said:
Medvedev has already shown in the past that he can change inertia, plus he is a 3 out of 5 animal.
Last year he gave his best precisely in the majors, the final at the Australian Open where he was one set away from winning the tournament, the semifinal at Wimbledon after eliminating Sinner, a goal that for him in the London major is the maximum he can aspire to, and the quarterfinals reached at the US Open where before surrendering to Sinner (the only one to snatch a set from the Italian from the second round onwards) he got there leaving only one set on the road.
I would not underestimate the Russian, even if we know that everything begins and ends with his incisiveness in service.
If he finds an elite service again he can beat anyone on hard surfaces.
Click to expand...

Med is about to turn 29, he's 3 years removed from the end of his athletic prime, and is declining.
 
26 used to be considered "prime" in tennis, but the big three showed it is not the barrier it was.

Med is in relative decline as he is not in the Sinner and Alcaraz class.

You need to keep up to date!

Rosstour said:
Med is about to turn 29, he's 3 years removed from the end of his athletic prime, and is declining.
Click to expand...
 
big ted said:
did djokovic have a weapon like this?



djoko outgrinds opponents, puts pressure on them, and makes them miss..
i wouldnt be surprised if rafa hit more winners in his career than djokovic
Click to expand...
He had many weapons unlike Nadal who had his forehand as just one weapon.

Both Djokovic and Nadal outgrind their opponent. Nadal did it even WORSE.

You fedal fans have delusions now. In entire career Djokovic likely has just same number of Groundstroke winners as Nadal + 3000 extra aces plus god knows how many unreturned serves.
 
objection_ said:
Are there any specific stats on his service decline? IMO he only really served sub-par at the US Open, most of the other tourneys he played in 2024 didn't seem to have worse serving than 2023, although he didn't play the ATP finals where it would have been tough to replicate his 2023 performance. Eye test alone he seemed to serve better at Wim 24 than Wim 23, where the wind really seemed to trouble his rhythm. Hard to gauge at RG 24 due to the knee injury, although the serve probably isn't as important as it is on clay. The serve probably bailed him out at AO 24 too, where he was being matched or even pushed off the ground by lesser opponents in R1 and R2, and got brutalised by Sinner in the SF. The drop in level there seemed to be more related to an inability to keep 5 rally balls in a row when challenged by the weight of Jannik's ball.
Click to expand...
You can go look at all his serve stats on the ATP Website. He was in the top 3 in almost all stats in 2023 like serve leaderboard, service games won, 1st serve points won etc. while he dropped to 10-12 in the serve rankings on all these stats in 2024.

Leaderboard | ATP Tour | Tennis

Statistical measures of the best-performing players in three key categories in men's professional tennis.
www.atptour.com www.atptour.com

Individual Match Stats | ATP Tour | Tennis

www.atptour.com www.atptour.com
 
AI overview


Yes, Rafael Nadal is known as a grinder, a player who wears down their opponents with consistency and endurance:

Unrelenting style
Nadal's grinding style of play and unorthodox technique have taken a toll on his body, causing injuries to his elbow, wrist, and foot.
 
AI overview

Yes, Novak Djokovic is widely considered a "grinder" in tennis, meaning he often relies on a consistent, defensive baseline game to outlast his opponents in long rallies, rather than relying heavily on powerful serves or aggressive winners.
 
Opelka off the ground was amazing but he should have no business breaking Joker.

But time to retire?
As Mark Twain famously might have said,
The reports of Novak's death are greatly exaggerated
Click to expand...
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Yes, Rafael Nadal is known as a grinder, a player who wears down their opponents with consistency and endurance:
Click to expand...

you can listen to AI but i agree with steve johnson whos played them all and his take is actually pretty much what the other players say

In the latest edition of the podcast ‘Nothing Major’, former American ace Steve Johnson paid tribute to the Big 3: "Roger, Rafa, Novak, this is obviously a crazy statement but, like Novak, he's the easiest to play of the three because he lets you play tennis. Roger comes forward and just suffocates you, Rafa just bullies you around the court and Novak, makes you miss and he makes your targets become so incredibly small, it's damn near impossible."



norcal said:
Opelka off the ground was amazing but he should have no business breaking Joker.
Click to expand...


opelka said after the match he could play so free becuz you have nothing to lose against the GOAT..
but is djokovic that much worse? i remember the last few years djoko would always be in trouble,
then his opponent would choke. the choking just isnt happening anymore. players look at djokovic
like a trophy head now
 
Bartelby said:
26 used to be considered "prime" in tennis, but the big three showed it is not the barrier it was.

Med is in relative decline as he is not in the Sinner and Alcaraz class.

You need to keep up to date!
Click to expand...

The B3 declined after that age too, but the skill gap between them and everyone else made it almost not matter

It was only obvious when they played each other. If not for Rafa and Djokovic Fed would have looked like the same player to the average fan/commentator from 2006 to 2019, but they highlighted brutally when he lost that first step in his age 27 year, which was 2008
 
big ted said:
you can listen to AI but i agree with steve johnson whos played them all and his take is actually pretty much what the other players say

In the latest edition of the podcast ‘Nothing Major’, former American ace Steve Johnson paid tribute to the Big 3: "Roger, Rafa, Novak, this is obviously a crazy statement but, like Novak, he's the easiest to play of the three because he lets you play tennis. Roger comes forward and just suffocates you, Rafa just bullies you around the court and Novak, makes you miss and he makes your targets become so incredibly small, it's damn near impossible."






opelka said after the match he could play so free becuz you have nothing to lose against the GOAT..
but is djokovic that much worse? i remember the last few years djoko would always be in trouble,
then his opponent would choke. the choking just isnt happening anymore. players look at djokovic
like a trophy head now
Click to expand...

These guys all skated by on pure aura for a long time after their skills stopped meriting it

Djoko probably benefited the most but Rafa's AO22 is probably the most burning example
 
big ted said:
you can listen to AI but i agree with steve johnson whos played them all and his take is actually pretty much what the other players say

In the latest edition of the podcast ‘Nothing Major’, former American ace Steve Johnson paid tribute to the Big 3: "Roger, Rafa, Novak, this is obviously a crazy statement but, like Novak, he's the easiest to play of the three because he lets you play tennis. Roger comes forward and just suffocates you, Rafa just bullies you around the court and Novak, makes you miss and he makes your targets become so incredibly small, it's damn near impossible."






opelka said after the match he could play so free becuz you have nothing to lose against the GOAT..
but is djokovic that much worse? i remember the last few years djoko would always be in trouble,
then his opponent would choke. the choking just isnt happening anymore. players look at djokovic
like a trophy head now
Click to expand...
Yeah you can listen to Steve Johnson. I don't have to. I listen to cold hard stats.
 
big ted said:
Very did djokovic have a weapon like this?



djoko outgrinds opponents, puts pressure on them, and makes them miss..
i wouldnt be surprised if rafa hit more winners in his career than djokovic
Click to expand...
How about this article here of Djokovic hitting 50% more FH winners than Nadal head-head after 2009? Also Djokovic stood aggressively near the baseline, took balls on the rise and changed angles at will to take time away from his opponents. Nadal stood 15 feet behind the baseline and hit heavy spin to safe targets till he got a short ball. If you have watched them live as I have in about 25 tournaments, there is no debate on who played an aggressive style.

socallefty said:
Some food for thought from an ESPN article in 2021.

www.espn.com

How Novak Djokovic mastered his few faults to become the GOAT

Novak Djokovic has become perhaps the greatest men's player ever because of his ability to turn the few relative weaknesses in his game into outright strengths.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

“In 17 previous meetings with Nadal before 2009 that were charted by Tennis Abstract, Nadal had hit 254 forehand winners to Djokovic's 221, and with 27% fewer errors. Beginning with this 2009 match in Paris, however, Djokovic flipped that completely around. In their next 30 charted matches through 2021, Djokovic hit 506 forehand winners to Nadal's 365, and with only 10% more errors.”

In my opinion, Nadal has a great FH for high-bouncing slow courts, but Djokovic has a more versatile FH where he can take the ball early, change angles better and be more offensive which is why you have FH stats (50% more winners, 10% more errors) like this in their head-head after 2009.

I would give the edge to Federer for having the best FH, but I think Djokovic’s FH is under-rated and Nadal’s is over-rated as an offensive weapon especially on lower-bouncing courts. Nadal doesn’t hit as close to the lines as Federer and Djokovic or on the rise from close to the baseline which is part of why there is this huge difference in FH winners. You don’t win 24, 22 or 20 Slams without a great FH that no one can exploit against you.
Click to expand...
 
socallefty said:
It seems like the time for Djokovic to retire has come finally. He used to be unbeatable in Australia, but nowadays he loses to the likes of DeMinaur and Opelka. He had a bad 2024 except for the Olympic swansong and now is off to a poor start in 2025. He should exit the stage gracefully before every Tom, Dick and Harry notches wins against him. Andy Murray is not the coach to help him and it looks like he doesn’t want Goran back while his old physio is in Sinner’s camp.

C’est fini!
Click to expand...
He doesn't need to give a sh1t about it.
He is lucky not to have any young ATG contenders, clear proven threats in the slam race, like Fed did.
 
socallefty said:
How about this article here of Djokovic hitting 50% more FH winners than Nadal head-head after 2009? Also Djokovic stood aggressively near the baseline, took balls on the rise and changed angles at will to take time away from his opponents. Nadal stood 15 feet behind the baseline and hit heavy spin to safe targets till he got a short ball. If you have watched them live as I have in about 25 tournaments, there is no debate on who played an aggressive style.
Click to expand...
According to Federer every Nadal forehand is an assault. Just because they don’t always produce winners doesn’t mean it’s not aggressive.
 
ghostofMecir said:
Opelka was a +1000 to +1100 dog in this. I was very surprised at how ineffective Djoko’s first serve game was vs. a player with that poor of a return.
Click to expand...
Lol I watched the highlights, Opelka had some GOAT level returns. All in all, he might have played the best match of his life.

That being said, I'm fine with Novak. From this three matches I've seen the fire in his eyes he lacked in 2024 (outside RG and Olympics).

Looking forward to 2025, this is going to be a fun year for Novak's fans, probably it will be his last stand.​
 
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