Time to fix the grass now !
- Thread starter nothingfails
- Start date
And if you actually played with wood racquets, you would know. Not that it matters. They made wood racquets from various kinds of wood. I used to own many different models. The most popular wood used was ash. But some also used some beech, mahogany, etc. You probably didn't even know they were made in multiple layers, did you? But who cares? I'm talking about a standard wood racquet like a Jack Kramer Auto or a Dunlop Maxply or a TAD Davis.
Um...no YOU must be.
Look at the wide band of dirt behind the baseline. So much so that it looks like a clay court back there. You DON'T see that in the 1980 grass court pic. There's still grass, NOT dirt behind the baseline in 1980. Please go see the eye doctor immediately. :???:
It's EXACTLY the same behind the baseline. Exactly.
You either have problem with your eyes or a problem understand that the color is not the same due to camera's.
Either way, you have been proved wrong on this thread.
viduka0101
Hall of Fame
Um...Nadal said he loves this court because it's just like a clay court (behind the baseline) so he can move on it just like his favorite clay court.
Pwned!
I'd actually like a quote on that one
you seem adept at using google so please do the search for me
Gen
Banned
That's why you know so little about tennis. Try to keep your eyes open, maybe you'll understand something (which is not guaranteed, of course, since understanding requires some brains as well).
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Gen
Banned
No, stupid. Wimbledon grass was replaced in 2001. Either you stop blaming grass for your idol's failures, or admit that all his Wimbledon titles are illegal.
I play all my competitive matches on grass.
In the 1980 photo (I won't post it again) the court is covered in grass. There is no dirt. There are worn patches and green patches but it is all grass.
Any grass court must look like that after a couple of weeks of tough play, but, to repeat, it is covered in grass.
In contradistinction, the Wimby centre court this year (and in recent years) was all dirt around the baseline, so I think the OP's point is valid.
In the 1980 photo (I won't post it again) the court is covered in grass. There is no dirt. There are worn patches and green patches but it is all grass.
Any grass court must look like that after a couple of weeks of tough play, but, to repeat, it is covered in grass.
In contradistinction, the Wimby centre court this year (and in recent years) was all dirt around the baseline, so I think the OP's point is valid.
Dilettante
Hall of Fame
rascaypica
Rookie
I have heard few times that one of the things that players have improved in last 15 years is the return of the serve...
I heard saying that, Aggasi, Moya and Corretja. I have also heard Nadal saying, that he could serve harder, but not enough to win the point. What means that the returned ball comes back extraordinarily hard, that is why he have to look for mor Spin, and accurecy in order to win the point later... he has to prepare it.
So, may be the problem is not the grass, but the evolution. We all have seen in last championhsip in hard courts longer points. No more onlygreatservers era...
I heard saying that, Aggasi, Moya and Corretja. I have also heard Nadal saying, that he could serve harder, but not enough to win the point. What means that the returned ball comes back extraordinarily hard, that is why he have to look for mor Spin, and accurecy in order to win the point later... he has to prepare it.
So, may be the problem is not the grass, but the evolution. We all have seen in last championhsip in hard courts longer points. No more onlygreatservers era...
Federerx16
Rookie
It's just not that much different from a slow hardcourt which makes it kinda redundant
vortex1
Banned
Um...Nadal said he loves this court because it's just like a clay court (behind the baseline) so he can move on it just like his favorite clay court.
Pwned!
Nadal was sarcastic when he said that you clown. The courts of Wimbledon are still super fast and Nadal has to change his game dramatically when he makes transition from clay to grass. Seriously, some of the posts here are
Gen
Banned
Actually what Nadal said was quite the opposite. In one of his pressers he was asked: since there is so little grass left on the baseline, does it play like clay? Nadal answered: "No, no, no, no".
Gen
Banned
Where have you posted the pic of Wimbledon 1980? On the wall in your bedroom? Please, do it here. And it should be the pic from the final clearly showing the baseline. I have this match recorded, and there was less grass in 1980 that now.
And since the likes of you usually have problems proving your point, I'll save you the embarassment
Hopefully your eyes are good enough to see the baseline and to tell the difference between green and brown.
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D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
Nadal was sarcastic when he said that you clown. The courts of Wimbledon are still super fast and Nadal has to change his game dramatically when he makes transition from clay to grass. Seriously, some of the posts here are
People are clutching at straws. At the Wimbledon final they showed a graphic overlay of the exact point of contact of the returns that Nadal was making at Wimbledon compared to his returns at The Fench Open. Nadal was stepping in and making contact about 2 meters further forward on almost all his returns compared to the position he was making contact on his returns at the French Open.
I think Nadal would win even if they placed on ice. Nadal is just the smartest most adaptable player on the atp tour. Just look at the variety of shot and change of pace,spin, trajectory and angles he used versus Berdych compared to the largely 1 paced game Fed and Joker used vs Berdych which lacked imagination and variety.
Falloutjr
Banned
No, handguns are not allowed in fencing because they are LETHAL WEAPONS. If you're going to bash modern technology, at least use a plausible analogy.
They're still playing on grass, notice in the pic the OP posted that the grass is worn out just as much as in the finals, the wear is just down the center of the court rather than along the baseline. This doesn't slow the game down THAT much seeing as it only radiates a couple feet inside the baseline. With all the topspin pros hit with nowadays, not many balls hit the baseline. Only the part of the court where players run is completely worn down, really.
viduka0101
Hall of Fame
ksbh
Banned
ROFL X 1500!
I don't know about Nadal taking Federer to the cleaners but Dilettante sure is taking BreakPoint there!
I don't know about Nadal taking Federer to the cleaners but Dilettante sure is taking BreakPoint there!
The '80's pictures look like dead yellow grass. The current baseline looks like grass was never there.
The own person who should be the most pi$$ed about this is Ivan Lendl because he actually had to S&V at Wimbledon and still made the finals on more then one occasion. He would have been money with this new set up.
The own person who should be the most pi$$ed about this is Ivan Lendl because he actually had to S&V at Wimbledon and still made the finals on more then one occasion. He would have been money with this new set up.
MasturB
Legend
But the dirt BEHIND the baseline wouldn't have an effect on the ball bounces, since the ball bounces INSIDE the baseline.
Would this play a role with the footwork for Nadal? Maybe yes, because it looks more like dirt which he's comfortable on. Besides that, Nadal looks very comfortable at net. His volleys are very smooth, that I'm surprised he doesn't come up to net more (McEnroe mentioned this as well).
But since guys aren't rushing to the net, the grass on the inside of the baseline isn't as worn out, so technically the "bounces" which everybody complains about being slower, should still be as effective longer into the tournament.
Why aren't we talking about how string technology has dipped its way into the modern game [well we have talked about it, but it seems we ignore it come Wimby]. Why aren't we talking about how every commentator mentions they open the cans of balls 2 weeks before Wimby to depressurize them?
It seems like the guys who can produce aces are still producing aces. Roddick was holding his serve fine against Lu until the last game (I think Lu had 2 break points only in the first 5 sets and few games the entire match). Isner was still hitting aces, otherwise there's no way he survives going to 60-all in the 5th running at the baseline all day. Tsonga was serving and volleying effectively against Murray, until he started going into meltdown mode and his volleys looked like a recreational player. That's when he started getting conservative and playing back more.
In my observation, it appears the servers still have an edge on the serve. The guys who now how to hit spots and can bring the heat. Returners have improved now because of spin and string technology, that points are then up for grabs after the server's advantage (being the serve) has been neutralized.
We should be giving more credit to Nadal, because Berdych and Soderling were ripping it, and Nadal was still playing offense on defense.
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Dilettante
Hall of Fame
The answer is simple: because some people just can't stand Nadal winning Wimbledon; well, they can't stand that Nadal has played four finals already. It goes against all their prejudices: for example, claycourt tennis is inferior and requires less talent (no matter if the most talented player in history, Federer, grew up on clay) while grass / S&V game are naturally superior. And of course it denies all their prejudices around Nadal: typical claycourt pusher, too defensive, physical game with no talent, etc.
So grass being different and slower (that it is, but since 2001!) is the explanation. When Federer whipped everyone on this grass, was still grass and there was no problem with it. The problem begun when Nadal reached a final (how that's even possible!) and after that he and Roger played two of the best matches EVER and now Nadal has his second Wimbledon.
It's exactly the same when some people say that Federer reaches RG finals because, supposedly, claycourters' field is weak, when the fact is that Federer is the 2nd best claycourter around and his game can suit claycourt perfectly (topspin, movement, groundstrokes, etc).
It's just a childish attitude: they just can't admit that when a player wins a slam, he was the best of 128 players, he was the one who went further and the one who won all the important points in his sucessive matches. You don't like this grass? Get over it, no one forces you to eat it with your salade.
The tournament surface, faster or slower, is the same for all 128 players and the best of them wins. ****ing period.
...you don't see this people complaining about the times when almost everything was played on grass, because grass is "cool" and there's nothing more appealing to a stupid person that being cool.
Mick
Legend
the commentators at nbc talked about this. they said federer stopped coming to the net because he felt he could win the match from the baseline against today's opponents. they showed the statistics from his match against sampras. in that match, federer came to the net just as much as sampras did because he felt victory would not be possible without coming to the net.
clayman2000
Hall of Fame
S&V was natural to Federer. He stopped it when he kept getting pummeled by the elite players at the time (Hewitt, Agassi)
Its no coincidence that he won his 1st slam, and had his breakout season when he stopped Serving and volleying all the time
There are some people here who claim this was mistake by him LOL>
I never thought Nadal could generate more spin and then he switched to RPM blast and he goes to a new level. I see the effects of that string most on his serve which according to the other players has more spin and heaviness to hit than ever.
Ah Yes, the halcyon days of Tennis really were really defined by long skirts and wooden racquets. All this new fangled graphite technology etc have elevated ball-strikers like Rafa to win matches from the baseline which is "clearly" against all that tennis and in particular Wimbledon has stood for.
In the same vein, I think these new tech thingies called "The Internets" and forums and "The Google's" have also lead to the decline in the art of commenting and voicing once opinions coherently. I think in the interests of the art of commenting, you should try and revert back to mailing your opinions on this special rectangular piece of card paper called the postcard.
It used to be made of card stock paper and some of them even had layers (which you probably already knew)
Please try using the post card for serious commenting and get back to us. Then maybe the others will understand.
P.S
To make sure that your post card is directed to the right thread make sure that you put the thread title as the subject line.
I don't think the OP was diparaging Nadal. The point I see out of this was Wimbledon was seen a test to the players to come off the clay then transition to grass. That what is what made what Borg did so impressive. The court is now playing like some type of hybrid claycourt by the end the fortnight.
And the issue about the baseline isn't the bounce, its the footing. That's why Lendl and Agassi skipped Wimbledon early on is it didn't work well for their games. So you couldn't stay back because:
A. The footing was slick
B. You took your chances with bad bounces.
And the issue about the baseline isn't the bounce, its the footing. That's why Lendl and Agassi skipped Wimbledon early on is it didn't work well for their games. So you couldn't stay back because:
A. The footing was slick
B. You took your chances with bad bounces.
Now if there is one bad bounce over a 5 set match the players stare at that patch of earth responsible for it for 20 secs
Dilettante
Hall of Fame
For me, Borg is up there with Federer and Laver, no matter GS count or lack of success of Borg at the USO.
That said, and I repeated this a million times, Borg himself said that the 2nd Wimbledon week was easier to him because burned grass baseline started to work a bit (a bit) like clay. And that he knew that what he needed to win Wimbledon was to survive the 1st week.
That's not different of what happens with Nadal. But it happens with Borg or Nadal, because "working a bit more like clay" means NOT it's clay, or you would see all the claycourters going far at Wimbledon, but they don't. And Roddick wouldn't ever dreamed of a semis. It's that Borg and Nadal, being clay their favorite surface, are great enough to adapt. Borg didn't like "fresh" grass particularly. He was primarily a claycourter, but he was so talented he could adapt. So is Nadal. And people often forget that Nadal won Queen's.
The grass change exists, but has not been that dramatic just enough to avoid serve fests, and more important, happened before Federer's dominance, not to say before Nadal's rising. BUT the talking about it started when Nadal threatened Fed's dominance on W.
Why would a band of dirt behind the baseline have any effect on how the ball bounces? Are players expected to keep on playing when the ball lands behind the baseline
It is clear from the pictures that the vast majority of the court is still covered with grass now, and that most of it was grassless back then. And I´ve seen worse images than the one presented here from the past. The 1985 final between Becker and Curren had a lot less grass than the image shown here.
Becker-Curren 1985. Watch the conditiion of the court and compare with today.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=20335447974&_fb_noscript=1
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=20335447974&_fb_noscript=1
Dilettante
Hall of Fame
Flat groundstrokes huh.
Tennis_Monk
Hall of Fame
normal evolution. am i supposed to see something obvious?
hoodjem
G.O.A.T.
Nadal said he liked the baseline at Wimbledon: it was just like the clay at RG in his opinion.
No, never have. I'm guessing the thing would break. But with that being said I'm also wondering if it would be harder to construct point with one or not?
This was guided evolution. The undersurface and the grass were changed to make the grass more durable, precisely to deal with the problem of increasingly grassless courts toward the end of the second week. Arguments to the effect that the courts play more ¨like clay¨ today because of a narrow band with no grass in front of the baseline are silly, because they should have played much more ¨like clay¨ when there was hardly any grass left on the court. Today, maybe 20% of shots land on the dirt. Back then, 90% of them did.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Watch these two videos and tell us with a straight face that the amount of dirt vs. grass behind the baselines are "EXACTLY the same".
1980 Wimbledon Final: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmfKbggEt5s&feature=related
2010 Wimbledon Final: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1UnmoSNvQs&feature=related
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Here you go:
Q. How are the courts playing? There's been no rain at all. How are the courts playing?
RAFAEL NADAL: Perfect.
Q. Perfect?
RAFAEL NADAL: Is dry.
Q. Just your conditions?
RAFAEL NADAL: Lot of clay behind the baseline (smiling.) You can move well, so... Perfect conditions.
http://www.wimbledon.org/en_GB/news/interviews/2010-06-30/201006301277922738982.html
T
TennisandMusic
Guest
Yes, Nadal uses the word "clay" to mean dirt (because grass grows on dirt you know), and the reporters laughed. He's also talking about MOVEMENT, not how the ball plays, which he constantly said was very low and the fastest of all the majors. Now also, try growing grass on actual clay. Just try it. .
I nominate BP as most obtuse poster on the boards.
There would be one benefit to going back to the wooden racquet era. There would be no internet and no one would be able to read Breakpoint's drivel.
.I nominate BP as most obtuse poster on the boards.
There would be one benefit to going back to the wooden racquet era. There would be no internet and no one would be able to read Breakpoint's drivel.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Not only are you math challenged but apparently you're also memory challenged.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Yellowed grass is STILL GRASS! Dirt is earth, the bare ground! If you don't know the difference between the two then you're pretty hopeless. Are pitcher's mounds covered in dirt or sun baked grass? Have you ever even played on a grass court? I thought not.Where have you posted the pic of Wimbledon 1980? On the wall in your bedroom? Please, do it here. And it should be the pic from the final clearly showing the baseline. I have this match recorded, and there was less grass in 1980 that now.
And since the likes of you usually have problems proving your point, I'll save you the embarassment
Hopefully your eyes are good enough to see the baseline and to tell the difference between green and brown.
Ultra2HolyGrail
Hall of Fame
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