Time to rank Sinner’s level

InsideOut900

InsideOut900

Legend
Where does it go compared to any of the winners in the last 10 years?

He had a bad match against Dimitrov he was lucky to win. He lost 1 set to Carlos for the rest of the tournament, played by far his best Wimbledon to date.

My ranking so far is:

2017 Fed
2016 Andy
2018 Djoko
2019 Djoko
2022 Djoko
2024 Carlos
2023 Carlos
2021 Djoko

Where does Sinner fit in?
 
2017 Federer had to beat an injured Cilic! Cilic in 2017 AO was more indicative.

2016 Murray had a field day with Raonic, who wouldn't?
 
dking68 said:
That’s foolishness 2025>2024. Alcaraz was much better at this edition. Alcaraz nearly lost to Tiafoe last year.
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The final is the match I value the most, and when it mattered Alcaraz locked in and destroyed Djokovic. It’s the most impressive Slam final performance I’ve seen between him and Sinner.

And anyway if we want to talk about nearly losing to players, I might remind you about a certain fourth round match that happened not too long ago.
 
Third Serve said:
The final is the match I value the most, and when it mattered Alcaraz locked in and destroyed Djokovic. It’s the most impressive Slam final performances I’ve seen between him and Sinner.

And anyway if we want to talk about nearly losing to players, I might remind you about a certain fourth round match that happened not too long ago.
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A guy who had surgery right after his FO open match? Alcaraz was a better player this year, compared to last year and lost. He won Queens dominantly and served more aces than Sinner in this final. 2025 is higher than even 2022 because 2022 Sinner had a 2 set lead over Djokovic. Now you need to open your eyes and be honest with yourself. With the improvement Sinner made in 2025, he would defeat 2022 Novak.
 
dking68 said:
A guy who had surgery right after his FO open match? Alcaraz was a better player this year, compared to last year and lost. He won Queens dominantly and served more aces than Sinner in this final. 2025 is higher than even 2022 because 2022 Sinner had a 2 set lead over Djokovic. Now you need to open your eyes and be honest with yourself. With the improvement Sinner made in 2025, he would defeat 2022 Novak.
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Who cares about ace counts lol? He had half as many double faults as aces. That’s not very good at all. And it’s worse when you pair that with a poor 53% first serve in.

Sinner gave Novak some trouble in the QF but again the final is the most important match and I thought Djokovic played a very impressive one for his age. Nick was serving at 73% and Djokovic did a great job neutralizing it. Sinner struggled in the first half of this match with Carlos but I don’t think Djokovic really had an outright poor set in the 2022 final.
 
dking68 said:
He won Queens dominantly and served more aces than Sinner in this final. 2025 is higher than even 2022 because 2022 Sinner had a 2 set lead over Djokovic. Now you need to open your eyes and be honest with yourself. With the improvement Sinner made in 2025, he would defeat 2022 Novak.
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Lol, this is like me saying Medvedev peaked higher Sinner on HCs because of how he dominated Sinner in the AO 24 final and he was better on HCs in 2021.

Only someone who doesn’t understand how momentum and margin for error works in tennis could claim Sinner pushing Novak to 5 in 2022 has any relevance.

Novak also lost sets in R1, R4, SF and guess what, he played his cleanest match of tournament in the final. This because he was hungry for a win and all matches were within his margin for error. And the 2022 final was a bit higher quality than the 2025 final.
 
Third Serve said:
Who cares about ace counts lol? He had half as many double faults as aces. That’s not very good at all. And it’s worse when you pair that with a poor 53% first serve in.

Sinner gave Novak some trouble in the QF but again the final is the most important match and I thought Djokovic played a very impressive one for his age. Nick was serving at 73% and Djokovic did a great job neutralizing it. Sinner struggled in the first half of this match with Carlos but I don’t think Djokovic really had an outright poor set in the 2022 final.
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Sinner 2025 beats Djokovic 2022
 
Third Serve said:
Who cares about ace counts lol? He had half as many double faults as aces. That’s not very good at all. And it’s worse when you pair that with a poor 53% first serve in.

Sinner gave Novak some trouble in the QF but again the final is the most important match and I thought Djokovic played a very impressive one for his age. Nick was serving at 73% and Djokovic did a great job neutralizing it. Sinner struggled in the first half of this match with Carlos but I don’t think Djokovic really had an outright poor set in the 2022 final.
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And is that Sinners fault? He was a better player this year, but lost (Alcaraz that is). You play only as well as your opponent allows you to. Alcaraz won Queens and was not nearly in as much trouble as in 2024.
 
InsideOut900 said:
Lol, this is like me saying Medvedev peaked higher Sinner on HCs because of how he dominated Sinner in the AO 24 final and he was better on HCs in 2021.

Only someone who doesn’t understand how momentum and margin for error works in tennis could claim Sinner pushing Novak to 5 in 2022 has any relevance.

Novak also lost sets in R1, R4, SF and guess what, he played his cleanest match of tournament in the final. This because he was hungry for a win and all matches were within his margin for error. And the 2022 final was a bit higher quality than the 2025 final.
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Djokovic beat monsterous servebot in Krygios, Krygios serves bettter than Sampras and Sinner, like 30 aces in 2022 wimby final?
 
xFedal said:
Djokovic beat monsterous servebot in Krygios, Krygios serves bettter than Sampras and Sinner, like 30 aces in 2022 wimby final?
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Sinner has way way better baseline game, return and does everything better than Kyrgios. I think Sinner 2025 would beat 2022 Novak. After all, Sinner 2022 took the first 2 sets from 2022 Novak
 
Can't put him too high because he may have lost to Dimitrov though he did pick it up after that. Can't put him above Fed/Djoker yet. Maybe next year. I think he was better than this year than Carlos was in 2023 and 2024 though overall. Possibly than Murray though its close
 
xFedal said:
That was quarter final, Djokovic dropped plenty of sets that tournament but really showed up for the final.
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Still think 2025 Sinner would win. If Kygs could take 1 set, actually almost even 2 sets, Im sure Sinner would take 3
 
dking68 said:
Still think 2025 Sinner would win. If Kygs could take 1 set, actually almost even 2 sets, Im sure Sinner would take 3
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Kyrgios was serving like a monster, go back on watch the match, if u want link il send you. He was serving crazy good, it might be record amount of aces sent past Djokovic in 4 sets. It was almost like u cant do anything on his 1st serve.
 
xFedal said:
Kyrgios was serving like a monster, go back on watch the match, if u want link il send you. He was serving crazy good, it might be record amount of aces sent past Djokovic in 4 sets. It was almost like u cant do anything on his 1st serve.
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I watched the match, but I still think Sinner does everything better apart from serve. Still would pick Sinner 2025 to win. He would find a way to break djokovic, move him around, outhit him and yeah. Still Sinner would win.
 
dking68 said:
A guy who had surgery right after his FO open match? Alcaraz was a better player this year, compared to last year and lost. He won Queens dominantly and served more aces than Sinner in this final. 2025 is higher than even 2022 because 2022 Sinner had a 2 set lead over Djokovic. Now you need to open your eyes and be honest with yourself. With the improvement Sinner made in 2025, he would defeat 2022 Novak.
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Alcaraz was flat today, though. The inspiration just wasn't there in sets 3 and 4, apart from briefly getting 15-40 when Sinner was serving at 4-3 in the fourth set.
 
dking68 said:
And is that Sinners fault? He was a better player this year, but lost (Alcaraz that is). You play only as well as your opponent allows you to. Alcaraz won Queens and was not nearly in as much trouble as in 2024.
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This is probably comparable to Alcaraz's win in 2023 or a bit better and better than last year's.

Not sure where 21 or 22 Djokovic fit. The others are better i would say.
 
Mustard said:
Alcaraz was flat today, though. The inspiration just wasn't there in sets 3 and 4, apart from briefly getting 15-40 when Sinner was serving at 4-3 in the fourth set.
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Alcaraz this time didn't have 'grandad' 16 years older than him in final he has a youthful 23 year old all time great in his peak , Carlos doesn't have age advantage over a player that is 23 years and 11 months old and we see what happened.
 
Martin J said:
Lol. What a clown Nick is, he surprises me every time with his stupidity and the lack of self awareness. Ned would've probably beaten him as well even without his serve.
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He’s triggering people with ragebait to get interaction and people are Giving it to him .
 
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xFedal said:
Alcaraz this time didn't have 'grandad' 16 years older than him in final he has a youthful 23 year old all time great in his peak , Carlos doesn't have age advantage over a player that is 23 years and 11 months old and we see what happened.
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No, that isn't what I mean. He was flat.
 
ghostofMecir said:
He’s triggering people with rage sit to get interaction and people are Giving it to him .
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Is he wrong? Maria Sharapova was initially banned for 2 years for taking a drug that had only just been put on the banned list, and was reduced to 15 months on appeal. Sinner got a slap on the wrist by comparison, and even the ban he eventually got was deliberately timed to be as convenient as possible.
 
Mustard said:
Is he wrong? Maria Sharapova was initially banned for 2 years for taking a drug that had only just been put on the banned list, and was reduced to 15 months on appeal. Sinner got a slap on the wrist by comparison, and even the ban he eventually got was deliberately timed to be as convenient as possible.
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Sinner should have atleast got 1 year thought the typical ban for failing 1 drug test is ? Sinner failed 2 so that should be 2 years typically or is it 4 years?
 
xFedal said:
Alcaraz this time didn't have 'grandad' 16 years older than him in final he has a youthful 23 year old all time great in his peak , Carlos doesn't have age advantage over a player that is 23 years and 11 months old and we see what happened.
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Why this reads like the excuse Fred fans used to give. Of course age is more extreme here , but doesn't it lend credence to the whole theory that no emergence of ATG talents between 2015-2021 led to prolonging of Big 3 careers and wins.
 
ForehandCross said:
Why this reads like the excuse Fred fans used to give. Of course age is more extreme here , but doesn't it lend credence to the whole theory that no emergence of ATG talents between 2015-2021 led to prolonging of Big 3 careers and wins.
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No atg in 2015-21 isn't the fault of the old big 3. Players lIke Big 3 are great in any era. Not sure about Nadal in 90s .
 
JoelSandwich said:
I still think Djokovic would win
His top level in 22 would beat sinner I think
To each their own
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Sinner 2022 led the 2022 version of Djokovic 2-0 before losing in 5. So, the 2025 version who is fearless, serves better and returns better would surely win.
 
Evaluating the level of both of these guys : the French open was a better match.

Sinner and Raz both didn’t really play well to start. Raz snuck that first set in.

I don’t even think sinner picked up his level until the end of the 2nd. He was still struggling to hold while Raz was making some sloppy errors. They both were and neither really capitalized.

Jannik picked things up and ran with it in the 3rd and 4th. Carlos never really picked up his level on serve. Jannik served at an elite level and his 2nd serve points won were impressive. Carlos couldn’t even dictate any returns on the second bc of how well Jannik placed the ball.

Sinner came forward quite a bit and executed. On top of that, he was forcing alcaraz into attempting drop shots at incorrect moments in high pace rallies.

It was Jannik’s day. He bested him and deserved the win.

But if you’re going to start a thread of how this ranks amongst the all time greats, you have to consider his walk over down 0-2 and I put this victory towards the bottom on the list.
 
dking68 said:
And is that Sinners fault? He was a better player this year, but lost (Alcaraz that is). You play only as well as your opponent allows you to. Alcaraz won Queens and was not nearly in as much trouble as in 2024.
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Alcaraz looked less convincing at 2024 Wimbledon than at 2023 Wimbledon, apart from the final against Djokovic.

Carlos Alcaraz at 2023 Wimbledon
R128: Carlos Alcaraz def. Jeremy Chardy (6-0, 6-2, 7-5)
R64: Carlos Alcaraz def. Alexandre Muller (6-4, 7-6, 6-3)
R32: Carlos Alcaraz def. Nicolas Jarry (6-3, 6-7, 6-3, 7-5)
R16: Carlos Alcaraz def. Matteo Berrettini (3-6, 6-3, 6-3, 6-3)
QF: Carlos Alcaraz def. Holger Rune (7-6, 6-4, 6-4)
SF: Carlos Alcaraz def. Daniil Medvedev (6-3, 6-3, 6-3)
F: Carlos Alcaraz def. Novak Djokovic (1-6, 7-6, 6-1, 3-6, 6-4)

Carlos Alcaraz at 2024 Wimbledon
R128: Carlos Alcaraz def. Mark Lajal (7-6, 7-5, 6-2)
R64: Carlos Alcaraz def. Aleksandar Vukic (7-6, 6-2, 6-2)
R32: Carlos Alcaraz def. Frances Tiafoe (5-7, 6-2, 4-6, 7-6, 6-2)
R16: Carlos Alcaraz def. Ugo Humbert (6-3, 6-4, 1-6, 7-5)
QF: Carlos Alcaraz def. Tommy Paul (5-7, 6-4, 6-2, 6-2)
SF: Carlos Alcaraz def. Daniil Medvedev (6-7, 6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
F: Carlos Alcaraz def. Novak Djokovic (6-2, 6-2, 7-6)

Carlos Alcaraz at 2025 Wimbledon
R128: Carlos Alcaraz def. Fabio Fognini (7-5, 6-7, 7-5, 2-6, 6-1)
R64: Carlos Alcaraz def. Oliver Tarvet (6-1, 6-4, 6-4)
R32: Carlos Alcaraz def. Jan-Lennard Struff (6-1, 3-6, 6-3, 6-4)
R16: Carlos Alcaraz def. Andrey Rublev (6-7, 6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
QF: Carlos Alcaraz def. Cameron Norrie (6-2, 6-3, 6-3)
SF: Carlos Alcaraz def. Taylor Fritz (6-4, 5-7, 6-3, 7-6)
F: Jannik Sinner def. Carlos Alcaraz (4-6, 6-4, 6-4, 6-4)
 
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