Tip for those who find turning sideways nearly impossible (unit turn)

[TimeToPlaySets]

I find that doing the turn is the most unnatural move in all of sports.
I was at a place where I would turn my upper body by pointing at the ball.
However, my feet are still both on the baseline (side to side)
So, like a partial unit turn.

I simply could NOT get my feet to both go parallel to the net. (One in front of the other)

So, I told the coach to break it down even more.
I just stood there, ALREADY standing sideways, and had him hand feed balls from a few feet away.
This way, the 1/2 assed turn was not an issue.

I have never hit a groundstroke like this in my entire life.
I did this for quite some time until I started getting used to facing sideways when hitting the ball.

After that, I progressed to facing the net during the feed, and doing the unit turn, before hitting the ball.

If you have played your entire life with nippes facing the net, you will never ever convert to this without drilling this for hours upon hours. This single thing (unit turn) might be my entire goal of $3k lessons in 2017.


11/11/2017

I have an update 7 months after this thread was started.

I now automatically turn.
Open stance turn. Reach my arm across, etc.

I did not notice when I stopped having to think about it.
I think It took over 6 months. Or maybe it was less.
Or when I stopped self-monitoring and saying, "I didn't turn"

Some people might just turn. It seems to simple.
But, for those who learned to arm the ball for their entire lives,
it takes a lot of time to feel natural standing sideways while hitting the ball.

I am glad I stuck with it. I can see why posters who learned the right way would find this entire thread insane.
Just turn. It's not rocket science. But, it involves redefining your entire swing. Old habits die hard.
It does not happen automatically, and needs to be practiced for months, at least.

I am glad I made it to the other side.

 

[SinjinCooper]

No way you learned to turn sideways for only three thousand dollars.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

No, I currently do not turn sideways whatsoever.

I am estimating that it will take all summer to learn this.
This would entail 3 lessons a week at $100/hr
Even that is conservative since that is only 30 hours.
That is 1 week in the life of a pro. In reality, it might cost $50,000 in lessons.
In fact, I know people who are spending $50,000 PER YEAR in tennis lessons for their kid.

The people who learn tennis often take 10 years to learn how to hit a tennis ball correctly.
The other 99.7% of tennis players don't learn correct mechanics at all.
That is why under 1% of people who ever buy a racket ever get to 4.5

 

[TnsGuru]

Think about catching the ball with your off-hand for an effective unit turn was a tip an instructor gave me years ago. If I feel like my forehand is off, this tip fixes it right away.

 

[snvplayer]

It is possible that you have mobility issue in the trunk and hips. From watching your clips, i wouldn't be surprised if you have a stiff back.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I don't think so.
It's just something that must be learned and made into habit.
It is not a natural and instinctive motion whatsoever.
That is why it needs to be taught explicitly unlike blinking or gripping the handle so the racket doesn't fall from your hand, or how to watch the yellow ball.

 

[RetroSpin]

How do you take your golf club back?

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Golf is irrelevant. Feet already in position.

 

[SinjinCooper]

Golf is irrelevant. Feet already in position.

Put your tennis feet in that position, then hit.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

LOL, as if it's so simple.
It will take months of drilling and coaching to develop this habit.
Then it will take years to do it automatically when the ball is coming at you at live 3.5 pace with almost no reaction time.

 

[morobtennis]

I find that doing the turn is the most unnatural move in all of sports.
I was at a place where I would turn my upper body by pointing at the ball.
However, my feet are still both on the baseline (side to side)
So, like a partial unit turn.

I simply could NOT get my feet to both go parallel to the net. (One in front of the other)

So, I told the coach to break it down even more.
I just stood there, ALREADY standing sideways, and had him hand feed balls from a few feet away.
This way, the 1/2 assed turn was not an issue.

I have never hit a groundstroke like this in my entire life.
I did this for quite some time until I started getting used to facing sideways when hitting the ball.

After that, I progressed to facing the net during the feed, and doing the unit turn, before hitting the ball.

If you have played your entire life with nippes facing the net, you will never ever convert to this without drilling this for hours upon hours. This single thing (unit turn) might be my entire goal of $3k lessons in 2017.

Just think of it as a pivot, like you have a movable disk under each feet, allowing you to pivot your toes to about a 45 degree angle before contact.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[2HBH-DTL]

Getting sideways to the ball is as simple as pivoting your outside foot to be parallel with the baseline/net. Your body will naturally get sideways when you pivot that outside foot.

 

[r2473]

Think about catching the ball with your off-hand for an effective unit turn was a tip an instructor gave me years ago. If I feel like my forehand is off, this tip fixes it right away.

That's a great tip. Thanks.

Do you (or anybody else)have anything like this for a backhand? I was always told to first point your shoulder at the ball. That works pretty well. Anybody have anything better?

Catching the ball with your off hand works great for overheads too.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

To clarify, the MOVEMENT itself is not hard. It's trivial.
To REMEMBER TO ACTUALLY DO IT is nearly impossible.
I imagine the only shortcut is 10,000 hours of doing unit turn drills.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I have begun doing lessons where I just keep holding the racket with my off-hand.
Basically, you need to make your FH into a 2-handed FH.

 

[Alexc2505]

We teach people to make as if to hit the forehand but reach forward with the free hand and catch the ball with the back of your hand facing the player ie palm facing toward the ball and out in front of you at the contact point, then drop the ball and hit . This forces the player to turn and get the shoulder round , then repeat without the catch hitting the ball in a normal motion. If you do it every time you can't fail to make the unit turn and it becomes habit.

 

[LeeD]

Seems easy, if you use both hands ON the racket, and take the racket back halfway with BOTH hands on the racket.
Very hard if you only hold the racket with one hand, and dangle the off hand.

 

[chikoo]

I find that doing the turn is the most unnatural move in all of sports.
I was at a place where I would turn my upper body by pointing at the ball.
However, my feet are still both on the baseline (side to side)
So, like a partial unit turn.

I simply could NOT get my feet to both go parallel to the net. (One in front of the other)

So, I told the coach to break it down even more.
I just stood there, ALREADY standing sideways, and had him hand feed balls from a few feet away.
This way, the 1/2 assed turn was not an issue.

I have never hit a groundstroke like this in my entire life.
I did this for quite some time until I started getting used to facing sideways when hitting the ball.

After that, I progressed to facing the net during the feed, and doing the unit turn, before hitting the ball.

If you have played your entire life with nippes facing the net, you will never ever convert to this without drilling this for hours upon hours. This single thing (unit turn) might be my entire goal of $3k lessons in 2017.

put 3K on the sidebench and I will be turning my nippies

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

We teach people to make as if to hit the forehand but reach forward with the free hand and catch the ball with the back of your hand facing the player ie palm facing toward the ball and out in front of you at the contact point, then drop the ball and hit . This forces the player to turn and get the shoulder round , then repeat without the catch hitting the ball in a normal motion. If you do it every time you can't fail to make the unit turn and it becomes habit.

I employ a similar drill with some students. By "reach forward with the free hand" I assume that you mean the reach is forward wrt the body in the coiled position (rather than forward in the direction of the net and the incoming ball). This would mean the the arm extends toward the side fence or the side of the court as we see Roger doing below.

 

[naturallight]

this works like magic

Seems easy, if you use both hands ON the racket, and take the racket back halfway with BOTH hands on the racket.
Very hard if you only hold the racket with one hand, and dangle the off hand.

 

[chrisb]

I find that doing the turn is the most unnatural move in all of sports.
I was at a place where I would turn my upper body by pointing at the ball.
However, my feet are still both on the baseline (side to side)
So, like a partial unit turn.

I simply could NOT get my feet to both go parallel to the net. (One in front of the other)

So, I told the coach to break it down even more.
I just stood there, ALREADY standing sideways, and had him hand feed balls from a few feet away.
This way, the 1/2 assed turn was not an issue.

I have never hit a groundstroke like this in my entire life.
I did this for quite some time until I started getting used to facing sideways when hitting the ball.

After that, I progressed to facing the net during the feed, and doing the unit turn, before hitting the ball.

If you have played your entire life with nippes facing the net, you will never ever convert to this without drilling this for hours upon hours. This single thing (unit turn) might be my entire goal of $3k lessons in 2017.

Unit turn, sideways to the net???? The hips turn first, then the shoulders, your feet can be wherever as long as they don`t block the hips opening so your bellybutton is facing the net before contact. Catch the ball and WW walla a great forehand

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Reaching to catch the ball is not ideal, b/c you can catch the ball without any shoulder turn.
You can just cross your arm across your chest.

The better way to teach this is to keep both hands on the racket until the shoulders are sideways.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Reaching to catch the ball is not ideal, b/c you can catch the ball without any shoulder turn.
You can just cross your arm across your chest.

The better way to teach this is to keep both hands on the racket until the shoulders are sideways.

It's not one or the other. I teach both of these things. The arm extended to the side happens after a unit turn with both hands on the racket.

 

[sureshs]

If you point straight in the ready position with both hands on the frame, and remember to keep the left hand on the frame or close to it as you turn, then you have the sideways turn with balance.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I'm not sure why this is so difficult given so many sports involve standing perpendicular to your target. Golf, pitching in baseball, snowboarding, skateboarding, surfing, football QBing, slapshot in hockey. Anybody that's played a lot of sports should be used to having their shoulders turned perpendicular to the target. Facing a target straight on should be the unnatural move.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

"point my shoulder at the contact point" always worked for me

 

[2HBH-DTL]

"point my shoulder at the contact point" always worked for me

Right. I always think to just touch my chin to my shoulder and helps accomplish the same thing. Whatever you gotta tell yourself to get sideways, do it!

 

[Dolgopolov85]

I find that doing the turn is the most unnatural move in all of sports.
I was at a place where I would turn my upper body by pointing at the ball.
However, my feet are still both on the baseline (side to side)
So, like a partial unit turn.

I simply could NOT get my feet to both go parallel to the net. (One in front of the other)

So, I told the coach to break it down even more.
I just stood there, ALREADY standing sideways, and had him hand feed balls from a few feet away.
This way, the 1/2 assed turn was not an issue.

I have never hit a groundstroke like this in my entire life.
I did this for quite some time until I started getting used to facing sideways when hitting the ball.

After that, I progressed to facing the net during the feed, and doing the unit turn, before hitting the ball.

If you have played your entire life with nippes facing the net, you will never ever convert to this without drilling this for hours upon hours. This single thing (unit turn) might be my entire goal of $3k lessons in 2017.

You are not wrong when you say it takes many drills to get it to the point where it becomes second nature. But that isn't because it's unnatural per se, though you may find it so. It's just because tennis strokes and movement involves a lot of co-ordination so getting it to a level where you don't have to think about it and it happens automatically involves a lot of practice. It's why my serve still sucks because the sheer co-ordination involved in it makes it difficult to master to the point where I don't have to remind myself and it happens automatically. For different people, different shots may come more easily or with greater effort. I knew somebody who started serving bombs within a few months of learning tennis but struggled with the backhand.

 

[atp2015]

I don't think so.
It's just something that must be learned and made into habit.
It is not a natural and instinctive motion whatsoever.
That is why it needs to be taught explicitly unlike blinking or gripping the handle so the racket doesn't fall from your hand, or how to watch the yellow ball.

have you tried two handed forehand to put unit turn into muscle memory?

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

^^ That is exactly what I am trying.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

"point my shoulder at the contact point" always worked for me

I'm going to try thinking about this in today's lesson.
That, and keeping the 2HFH.

To keep it even simpler, I will do this with drop feeds.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

I'm going to try thinking about this in today's lesson.
That, and keeping the 2HFH.

To keep it even simpler, I will do this with drop feeds.

one thing to keep in mind is that doing the unit turn for a drop feed is easy,... but doing it while on the run, it's easy to get rushed and forget to do it because you're focused on hitting the ball.

as your anticipation improves, the more time you give yourself to set up and unit turn.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

First things first, right?
I am now feeling more comfortable with the FH shoulder turn.
A few more lessons and it should start to become habit.
Very very pleased with this step forward.

I have decided to forget the legs going sideways. (neutral stance)
I am simply focusing on turning the shoulders.
So, it's a unit turn but with open or semi-open stance.
This is good enough for me.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

First things first, right?
I am now feeling more comfortable with the FH shoulder turn.
A few more lessons and it should start to become habit.
Very very pleased with this step forward.

I have decided to forget the legs going sideways. (neutral stance)
I am simply focusing on turning the shoulders.
So, it's a unit turn but with open or semi-open stance.
This is good enough for me.

fyi the lesson is to get the knowledge and feedback.

the repetitions you do AFTER (and betwee) the lesson will be what forms the habit(s). this is where supplementing lessons (say a month apart), with clinics (where you drill what you learned in the lessons) is valuable.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Going to disagree but I understand your intent.

Getting the knowledge is of little value, and is just the first step.
I already knew about "turn" months ago. In fact, I was taught to turn last summer.
However, it simply never stuck. It just went away.
I played all winter long, and I was never turning, not even once.
I went right back to my untrained teenaged mechanics, and played exactly like I had at age 16.
So, the knowledge is absolutely useless. Since the brain was not telling the body to turn.
Playing does nothing for improvement, it simply optimizes the skill ceiling level you are currently at.
Playing simply offers you a chance to reduce errors, but will never make you develop new mechanics.

The lesson is where I get a chance to do the skill 100's of times in a row. This is how it will stick. New mechanics.
When playing matches, you immed. revert back to "autopilot", which in this case, is stick the racket out and nipples face the net.

For me, the $50/hr lesson IS the hitting partner.
I am going to try to take a lesson every single day this summer.
$50*7*10 = $3500. That's nothing.
If that is physically impossible, then maybe 5x a week.
The point is, I will just keep drilling my identified weaknesses until it's unconscious and automatic.

Clinics are a complete and total waste of time and money.
I'd rather hit against a wall.

 

[mcs1970]

I simply could NOT get my feet to both go parallel to the net. (One in front of the other)

I'm assuming you mean the front foot would be more like 45 degrees. Neither foot would be completely parallel to the net. BH slice is the only one I can think of where I might keep both parallel.

Also is the issue that you can't do the unit turn or the fact that you're too late to do it. A subsequent post on this thread seems to indicate the latter. To me that means you're guilty of watching the ball too much without thinking quickly. There are some tips on utube such as calling out forehand/backhand even as the shot is coming towards you (before or by the time it crosses the net) so that you get your body in the correct position to hit the shot much before the ball actually gets to you.

 

[SinjinCooper]

I have decided to forget the legs going sideways. (neutral stance)
I am simply focusing on turning the shoulders.
So, it's a unit turn but with open or semi-open stance.
This is good enough for me.

No advice for you. Good luck.

For anyone else reading, see how the left foot is pointed exactly sideways in every one of those diagrams? That's because you initiate your movement to the ball by turning your whole body (not just your shoulders) toward the incoming ball, and along with it, the racquet joins the ride while beginning to get into hitting position. THAT's the unit turn. THEN, from that side-facing posture, you move to the ball, plant the rear foot, and only at that point do you commit to one of those hitting stances.

Turning just the shoulders, from open stance, isn't a unit turn, and it isn't footwork. It's the laziness and shortcut-seeking of the perennial 3.5. On balls hit straight to you, you turn your whole body and hit neutral stance so you can generate the momentum needed to hit a decent shot, since that kind of ball doesn't allow you the jab step needed to create the full-body rotational power needed with a semi-open or open stance.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Not late. Just never do it. I simply was never told to turn my shoulders once in my life, so I never did it. I just face the net and rip the ball as hard as I can with my arm.

I absolutely watch the ball way too long.
Both when receiving and after hitting it myself ("Gee, what a great shot...Look, it's going to land in.....Yup, it's in!! Oh, yea, maybe I should go to net....."

One huge goal for 2017 is to turn early. Part of this is to turn as soon as you know which side it's coming.
I am finally getting comfortable turning early on the FH side. Turn, and now waiting, or moving forward with my arm pointing at ball.
At first, this felt VERY unstable, but now it's feeling more natural after a few lessons. My next lesson is actually going to be about early turn on the BH
Right now, my BH is "just in time" turning, at the very last second. It feels VERY weird to turn and then wait, while standing sideways.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Obviously, my left foot is pointing sideways. You can't turn your shoulders and NOT turn your rear foot sideways.
I am talking about the FRONT foot. I am leaving it as open stance, but with full shoulder turn.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

First things first, right?
I am now feeling more comfortable with the FH shoulder turn.
A few more lessons and it should start to become habit.
Very very pleased with this step forward.

I have decided to forget the legs going sideways. (neutral stance)
I am simply focusing on turning the shoulders.
So, it's a unit turn but with open or semi-open stance.
This is good enough for me.

I strongly suggest that you do not abandon the neutral stance. In many situations it will be the optimal stance. It can be less stressful to the body. If you rely exclusively on an open stance FH, it could put undue stress on your left hit (for a lefty FH). I've not been able to play for more than 2 years because of my left hip issues (upslip, rotation and arthritis). Kuerten and Hewitt are 2 examples of players who hit most of their FHS with an open stance. It put an early end to a promising career for Kuerten. Hewitt required 2 hip surgeries to extend his career.

 

[samarai]

for that price i would get a good ball machine to supplement with the coaching. u are putting alot of effort and expense in trying to get to 4.0. it took me 5 years from complete beginner to be able to compete at 4.0 low 4.5. this was with regular hitting, internet coaching, some league play. I had maybe 6-7 lessons at the beginning to start off with. This is starting play at 40 years of age.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

It is 10000x easier to start blank with no experience at all.
If I had never lifted a racket until age 40, getting to 4.0 would be a hundred times simpler.
What I am doing is undoing 4 decades of bad habits that are very deeply ingrained.
It's a completely different road I am on.

I already bought a used ball machine last fall. I've only been able to use it once.
I will also be using that, but it's just not as dynamic as a live human feeder.

Also, I have posted here a lot more than I've played.
I've only played once a week, doubles only, for the last 7 months.
This is the first week of outdoors tennis.
So, it seems like a long time, but the training really only begins now.

Also, I have seen people claim to be 4.0 who would lose to my local 3.5 group.
Ratings do not seem to be standard at all.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

It is 10000x easier to start blank with no experience at all.
If I had never lifted a racket until age 40, getting to 4.0 would be a hundred times simpler.
What I am doing is undoing 4 decades of bad habits that are very deeply ingrained.
It's a completely different road I am on.

If it's really that much harder, why not switch to playing right-handed? You won't have a completely blank slate [ie footwork] but 10,000x is a lot to compensate for.

 

[samarai]

Are u saying u have been playing on and off for close to 3 decades and still trying to get to 4.0. why havnt u played more, i assume u are living in an area where weather dictates play. All the practice and lessons in the world arent going to help much unless u play alot more with different types of opponents.

 

[TnsGuru]

http://truehypnosis.com/sports-hypnosis-improved-tennis-performance/ Rather than spend so much money on lessons, you may want to try this first. Hypnosis therapy to get rid of your bad habits and improve your game. From what I read, hypnosis can reverse some ingrained bad habits that you speak of. What have you got to lose? 40 years of bad habits perhaps? It's worth a shot rather than spending money 5x a week on lessons. If you do this let me know how it works ok?

 

[2HBH-DTL]

there's no substitute for practice and repetitive motion. when you're not out on the tennis court practicing, then do shadow strokes in the comfort of your own home until it becomes muscle memory. you'll be surprise how much doing shadow strokes helps your game.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Unit turn, sideways to the net???? The hips turn first, then the shoulders, your feet can be wherever as long as they don`t block the hips opening so your bellybutton is facing the net before contact. Catch the ball and WW walla a great forehand

walla = voila. Those French and their "creative" spelling. It's worse than English at times.

 

[Fintft]

there's no substitute for practice and repetitive motion. when you're not out on the tennis court practicing, then do shadow strokes in the comfort of your own home until it becomes muscle memory. you'll be surprise how much doing shadow strokes helps your game.

Lessons help as well to reinforce or to teach the concepts, e.g. even during my last lesson, this past Sat, the emphasis was on how to take the racket back and high (and turn) on the FH, from my 24 year old girl coach. Mind you I have the strongest FH in my 3.5 group (measured also with a radar gun) and yet, there is room for improvement or for me forgetting how to execute and so forth...

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Still having issues with this.

During my match today, I barely ever did the unit turn.
MY non-dom arm was just dangling at my side.

I think my problem is that I never learned to move my feet.
I started doing the shoulder turn by pointing my arm to the side fence.
But, at that point, stepping forward is totally forced and artificial

I am going to drill just stepping TOWARDS the ball.
This is the only thing that gets my stance to close.
I might need to drill this 8 hours a day until it sticks.

 

[ptuanminh]

I learnt how to do this unit turn by watching youtube videos .