Tip for those who find turning sideways nearly impossible (unit turn)

[atp2015]

Still having issues with this.

During my match today, I barely ever did the unit turn.
MY non-dom arm was just dangling at my side.

I think my problem is that I never learned to move my feet.
I started doing the shoulder turn by pointing my arm to the side fence.
But, at that point, stepping forward is totally forced and artificial

I am going to drill just stepping TOWARDS the ball.
This is the only thing that gets my stance to close.
I might need to drill this 8 hours a day until it sticks.

Staying too close to the baseline makes you rushed and unit turn may not happen. One of the thing I used to do was to stay back a step or two behind the bl to allow time for turn and uncoil.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Clinics are a complete and total waste of time and money.

We should let the academies, coaches, and schools know.
Weird they all offer these to kids.

 

[NLBwell]

I'm just amazed by the Original Post. I don't understand how it would be possible to not be able to move your foot. (unless you were paralyzed)

 

[revolutiontenniz]

Still having issues with this.

During my match today, I barely ever did the unit turn.
MY non-dom arm was just dangling at my side.

I think my problem is that I never learned to move my feet.
I started doing the shoulder turn by pointing my arm to the side fence.
But, at that point, stepping forward is totally forced and artificial

I am going to drill just stepping TOWARDS the ball.
This is the only thing that gets my stance to close.
I might need to drill this 8 hours a day until it sticks.

Have you tried taking back the racquet with your non dominant hand while your hitting hand being completely relaxed?
I always use my non dominant hand to put the racquet back at 5 o'clock (imagine a clock parallel to the court with your body at the center of the clock) . When I do that, my shoulders are automatically turned.

 

[chrisb]

for that price i would get a good ball machine to supplement with the coaching. u are putting a lot of effort and expense in trying to get to 4.0. it took me 5 years from complete beginner to be able to compete at 4.0 low 4.5. this was with regular hitting, internet coaching, some league play. I had maybe 6-7 lessons at the beginning to start off with. This is starting play at 40 years of age.

This is a game you play for fun and exercise. If you find people you enjoy playing with you are winning the game. This blog uses the terms right and wrong incorrectly. A better way is to talk about effective and less effective. The concept that you want to rely on is can I keep the ball in play. The term is push. You basically push the ball over the net on every shot. If you can do this and having fun doing it you are ahead of the curve

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I'm just amazed by the Original Post. I don't understand how it would be possible to not be able to move your foot. (unless you were paralyzed)

Try this. Just in your living room, no racket.

Get into a ready crouch pose. Hands in front of you. Like a karate fighter. Or football defenseman

Now rotate your trunk so your hands are now facing the side. Shoulders have turned 90. But, Notice how your feet are still planted?

I don't see how it's possible to move your feet when doing this.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

LOL, as if it's so simple.
It will take months of drilling and coaching to develop this habit.
Then it will take years to do it automatically when the ball is coming at you at live 3.5 pace with almost no reaction time.

no, it (tracking, moving, adjusting my feet, prep, hit, etc..) will take a lifetime... at least for me

 

[LeeD]

I find that doing the turn is the most unnatural move in all of sports.
I was at a place where I would turn my upper body by pointing at the ball.
However, my feet are still both on the baseline (side to side)
So, like a partial unit turn.

I simply could NOT get my feet to both go parallel to the net. (One in front of the other)

So, I told the coach to break it down even more.
I just stood there, ALREADY standing sideways, and had him hand feed balls from a few feet away.
This way, the 1/2 assed turn was not an issue.

I have never hit a groundstroke like this in my entire life.
I did this for quite some time until I started getting used to facing sideways when hitting the ball.

After that, I progressed to facing the net during the feed, and doing the unit turn, before hitting the ball.

If you have played your entire life with nippes facing the net, you will never ever convert to this without drilling this for hours upon hours. This single thing (unit turn) might be my entire goal of $3k lessons in 2017.

Do you bat a baseball facing forwards?
Do you throw a football facing forwards?
Do you toss a frisbee facing forwards?
Didn't you use a slingshot or a bow as a kid?
Can you shoot a rifle facing forward?
Why hit a tennis ball facing forward?

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Try this. Just in your living room, no racket.

Get into a ready crouch pose. Hands in front of you. Like a karate fighter. Or football defenseman

Now rotate your trunk so your hands are now facing the side. Shoulders have turned 90. But, Notice how your feet are still planted?

I don't see how it's possible to move your feet when doing this.

The comparison is bad because what a martial artist or football defenseman does with their hands after they've turned is different than what a tennis player does.

It's very possible and there are countless videos on YouTube showing just that. You can do it also: if you're having problems with the speed, just slow things down. But saying it's impossible doesn't make much sense.

 

[LeeD]

Perhaps understanding the amount of torso turn is in question?
You turn half way, not fully sideways. Then, if the ball hasn't arrived, you have time to move the feet AND further the torso rotation.
If the ball HAS arrived, you hit the ball with feet set open, but torso turned half way back.

 

[atp2015]

Try this. Just in your living room, no racket.

Get into a ready crouch pose. Hands in front of you. Like a karate fighter. Or football defenseman

Now rotate your trunk so your hands are now facing the side. Shoulders have turned 90. But, Notice how your feet are still planted?

I don't see how it's possible to move your feet when doing this.

Have you heard the squeaky shoes when pros play on hard court? We are supposed to open the hip by turning the feet like a dancer both on GS and volley.
It's not hard to do after couple of sessions and you will think you are cheating because shots become so easy to make.
You can take a drop step or simply turn the feet on your heel depending on the ball location.

I try to get my right foot 45 degrees towards the back fence on wide forehand.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

no, it (tracking, moving, adjusting my feet, prep, hit, etc..) will take a lifetime... at least for me

This is very very discouraging.
I was hoping to have this nailed down over the summer.
I wonder how long IMG kids just stand still and watch the ball as it comes towards them.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Do you bat a baseball facing forwards?
Do you throw a football facing forwards?
Do you toss a frisbee facing forwards?
Didn't you use a slingshot or a bow as a kid?
Can you shoot a rifle facing forward?
Why hit a tennis ball facing forward?

Because it's the most natural and easy way.
That's why trillions of people do that.
Also why parents spend $80k a year to teach them to do otherwise.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Have you heard the squeaky shoes when pros play on hard court? We are supposed to open the hip by turning the feet like a dancer both on GS and volley.
It's not hard to do after couple of sessions and you will think you are cheating because shots become so easy to make.
You can take a drop step or simply turn the feet on your heel depending on the ball location.

I try to get my right foot 45 degrees towards the back fence on wide forehand.

No idea what you're trying to say.

 

[Carefree]

I strongly suggest that you do not abandon the neutral stance. In many situations it will be the optimal stance. It can be less stressful to the body. If you rely exclusively on an open stance FH, it could put undue stress on your left hit (for a lefty FH). I've not been able to play for more than 2 years because of my left hip issues (upslip, rotation and arthritis). Kuerten and Hewitt are 2 examples of players who hit most of their FHS with an open stance. It put an early end to a promising career for Kuerten. Hewitt required 2 hip surgeries to extend his career.

This. My forehand got much better when I started hitting more closed/neutral. It lets you get your body weight in to the shot and use your core muscles more.

Personally, I find that the key to the unit turn is the first step. In all of those diagrams, the back foot is parallel with the baseline. First move is a step out toward the direction of the ball. Both hands on the racquet (off hand on throat) will force the shoulders to turn. This already gets you in to an open/semi open stance. If this is all you have time for, fine. But, if you can step in to the ball, that's a neutral stance.

That's just my un-professional opinion.

 

[Bender]

Thanks to imaginary scoliosis, I am turned sideways 100% of the time.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I'm going to try stepping towards the ball as my first step.

The split step is what keeps screwing me up. After I split, I tend to jump UP again, since I'm loaded...totally wasting time and energy.

Insane as it sounds, I may need to practice turning 1000s of times at home before I try it on the court with a live ball.

 

[atp2015]

wid

No idea what you're trying to say.

In all seriousness, I think you should totally forget about tennis shots for a while and focus and learn/drill just the footwork patterns - big step, small/adjustment step, side step, drop/gavity step, shuffle step, cross over step etc.
Any forehand shot MUST begin with the right foot moving to the right (for a righty) along with the unit turn - whether you are using close,neutral, open, semi-open stance. Tennis is primarily a game of movement - the ball gets hit while executing these movements. If any ground shot is executed with less than 4 foot steps, we can safely assume it's not executed correctly. Your next assignment as an aspiring 3.5 is learning the footwork fundamentals and you MUST post questions only related to your assigned topic!

 

[SinjinCooper]

In all seriousness, I think you should totally forget about tennis shots for a while and focus and learn/drill just the footwork patterns - big step, small/adjustment step, side step, drop/gavity step, shuffle step, cross over step etc.

 

[Mark Asher]

I use my left hand to push the racket back for my forehand, and that naturally turns my shoulders. I like to hit in a semi-open stance most of the time. I get good power when I shift my weight from back foot to front foot. The semi-open leaves my arm free to swing.

It's not completely ingrained. I still need to think, to remember to push the racket back with the left hand on the throat. I spent a lot of years playing tennis where it was easy to be lazy and just arm the ball over on the forehand side with a quick stroke and still hit a decent shot. It's just too erratic when done that way.

It really is all about developing the correct habit and correct muscle memory. The goal should be to get to the point where you don't even think about most of the time.

 

[Raul_SJ]

I think the OP is the only one with this problem.

Never heard of anyone not being able to turn sideways. He claims he is not even able to point toes sideways. This is bizarre.

He should discuss this issue with the coach he is paying $5000 to for daily private lessons.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Actually, almost no one who plays tennis turns sideways. Maybe 1%. That is why there are videos telling people to do that. Notice there are no videos on how to chew food? But thousands on doing unit turn.

 

[Mark Asher]

Actually, almost no one who plays tennis turns sideways.

It's not really about being sideways anyway, is it? It's about getting the shoulders turned when you get the racket back and getting the weight shifted to the back foot so you are ready to address the ball and shift your weight into the stroke.

 

[5263]

Actually, almost no one who plays tennis turns sideways. Maybe 1%. That is why there are videos telling people to do that. Notice there are no videos on how to chew food? But thousands on doing unit turn.

You were doing good here, but what happened?

 

[SinjinCooper]

It's not really about being sideways anyway, is it? It's about getting the shoulders turned when you get the racket back and getting the weight shifted to the back foot so you are ready to address the ball and shift your weight into the stroke.

"Turn sideways" is what we tell beginners. It's usually good enough, because it gets the body in position to either step into the ball for a neutral stance stroke, or jab step with the rear foot to prep for a semi open stroke with the body already turned.

It's efficient enough because the ball moves slowly at that level.

You can't hope to initiate a full and correct unit turn if you can't turn sideways in the same way you can't hope to improve your 40 yard dash time if you can't imagine it's possible to put one foot in front of the other.

 

[5263]

You can't hope to initiate a full and correct unit turn if you can't turn sideways in the same way you can't hope to improve your 40 yard dash time if you can't imagine it's possible to put one foot in front of the other.

Sure you can. We start everyone in open and semi with kids/adults both improving far faster than what we observe from others.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

"Turn sideways" is what we tell beginners. It's usually good enough, because it gets the body in position to either step into the ball for a neutral stance stroke, or jab step with the rear foot to prep for a semi open stroke with the body already turned.

It's efficient enough because the ball moves slowly at that level.

You can't hope to initiate a full and correct unit turn if you can't turn sideways in the same way you can't hope to improve your 40 yard dash time if you can't imagine it's possible to put one foot in front of the other.

Anyone can unit turn
Most people don't remember to.
That is the difference

 

[atp2015]

"Turn sideways" is what we tell beginners. It's usually good enough, because it gets the body in position to either step into the ball for a neutral stance stroke, or jab step with the rear foot to prep for a semi open stroke with the body already turned.

It's efficient enough because the ball moves slowly at that level.

You can't hope to initiate a full and correct unit turn if you can't turn sideways in the same way you can't hope to improve your 40 yard dash time if you can't imagine it's possible to put one foot in front of the other.

Look at baseball batters - the ready position has them turned side ways. They don't face the ball with their nipples facing the incoming ball. Cricket(a sport in Caribbean islands, UK,India,Australia) batters face the ball side ways.
But baseball and cricket batters hit only forehands - and no backhands there. Since tennis players may switch between backhand and forehand, the ready position cannot be in a sideways position.
so, what's my point? got to drill very early in tennis enthusiasts about the natural sideways thing in other sports as well. Will it become easier to understand and follow? It's like - "sideways is not just some tennis nutty thing. it's the most efficient athletic position. look at baseball batters, cricket swingers, softball hitters. Even boxing involves boxers getting ready in tennis equivalent of semi-open stance. The hits are with a unit turn.

 

[LeeD]

Post 58 agrees with post 78, but OP is a self rated "good athlete" who can discount what history has shown in order to proceed on his own.
What good athlete hasn't done all of the above, post 78, and most of post 58.

 

[PittsburghDad]

I have begun doing lessons where I just keep holding the racket with my off-hand.
Basically, you need to make your FH into a 2-handed FH.

This. This. This. In teaching my daughter I had her using a two handed FH for six months. Fantastic way to ingrain a unit turn. It becomes second nature.

 

[Slicerman]

I think you should forget about doing the 90 degrees unit turn. That's too 1960's textbook style. Also it sounds like your timing is being rushed when you try doing so. Instead go for 45 degrees unit turn. Its makes more sense in the context of the modern game.

 

[LeeD]

45 degree neutral for forehand, but 1hbh's need much more closed stance, and 2hbh about closed, as evidenced in pictures of ATP and WTA. When they hit neutral, it ain't working, look at their faces!

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I have an update 7 months after this thread was started.

I now automatically turn.
Open stance turn. Reach my arm across, etc.

I did not notice when I stopped having to think about it.
I think It took over 6 months. Or maybe it was less.
Or when I stopped self-monitoring and saying, "I didn't turn"

Some people might just turn. It seems to simple.
But, for those who learned to arm the ball for their entire lives,
it takes a lot of time to feel natural standing sideways while hitting the ball.

I am glad I stuck with it. I can see why posters who learned the right way would find this entire thread insane.
Just turn. It's not rocket science. But, it involves redefining your entire swing. Old habits die hard.

I am glad I made it to the other side.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I have an update 7 months after this thread was started.

I now automatically turn.
Open stance turn. Reach my arm across, etc.

I did not notice when I stopped having to think about it.
I think It took over 6 months. Or maybe it was less.
Or when I stopped self-monitoring and saying, "I didn't turn"

Some people might just turn. It seems to simple.
But, for those who learned to arm the ball for their entire lives,
it takes a lot of time to feel natural standing sideways while hitting the ball.

I am glad I stuck with it. I can see why posters who learned the right way would find this entire thread insane.
Just turn. It's not rocket science. But, it involves redefining your entire swing. Old habits die hard.

I am glad I made it to the other side.

Bravo! Now you see why I advised you to stop using words like "unnatural", "awkward", and "impossible". I told you that if you stopped worrying about how unnatural/awkward/impossible it was and just concentrated on doing it, time/repetition/positive outlook would work their magic.

I believe that's what you're seeing now.

Next station: the split step.

 

[mad dog1]

I have an update 7 months after this thread was started.

I now automatically turn.
Open stance turn. Reach my arm across, etc.

I did not notice when I stopped having to think about it.
I think It took over 6 months. Or maybe it was less.
Or when I stopped self-monitoring and saying, "I didn't turn"

Some people might just turn. It seems to simple.
But, for those who learned to arm the ball for their entire lives,
it takes a lot of time to feel natural standing sideways while hitting the ball.

I am glad I stuck with it. I can see why posters who learned the right way would find this entire thread insane.
Just turn. It's not rocket science. But, it involves redefining your entire swing. Old habits die hard.

I am glad I made it to the other side.

We all told you it takes time to break those bad ingrained habits. Hopefully you’ve seen the light now and realize these things take time.

 

[5263]

I have an update 7 months after this thread was started.

I now automatically turn.
Open stance turn. Reach my arm across, etc.

I did not notice when I stopped having to think about it.
I think It took over 6 months. Or maybe it was less.
Or when I stopped self-monitoring and saying, "I didn't turn"

Some people might just turn. It seems to simple.
But, for those who learned to arm the ball for their entire lives,
it takes a lot of time to feel natural standing sideways while hitting the ball.

I am glad I stuck with it. I can see why posters who learned the right way would find this entire thread insane.
Just turn. It's not rocket science. But, it involves redefining your entire swing. Old habits die hard.

I am glad I made it to the other side.

But you didn't. You went to the better open stance turn, right?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 120290]

...I can see why posters who learned the right way would find this entire thread insane...

You can safely Copy & Paste this to all your other threads.

 

[mad dog1]

You can safely Copy & Paste this to all your other threads.

 

[JOSHL]

I have the exact opposite problem. I stand sideways like a baseball batter and never open up. I hit every forehand like a baseball at the side of my body and not out front. This caught up to me and gave me wrist issues. Need to train myself how to hit out in front. Thanks to @mad dog1 for pointing it out.