Tips for first time captain ...

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
The winning team did NOT play lines straight up. Many times the strongest team played line 2 or 3. Even those matches were very close, maybe line management was the deciding factor (he was better at it than the other 2 teams).

In the local league here, this statement is always true ‘The winning team did NOT play lines straight up‘. New captains and teams that are playing entirely for social fun usually play straight up. Every team with a chance of winning the league usually has experienced captains that game plan a lot to out-scheme the opposing captain. If you know a team will always play straight up, the other captain will always stack and take a loss in line 1 with his worst line while winning line 2 and 3 with stronger players. If there are two singles in addition and one captain always plays straight up while the other stacks, it pretty much guarantees one singles win also.
 

zipplock

Hall of Fame
In the local league here, this statement is always true ‘The winning team did NOT play lines straight up‘. New captains and teams that are playing entirely for social fun usually play straight up. Every team with a chance of winning the league usually has experienced captains that game plan a lot to out-scheme the opposing captain. If you know a team will always play straight up, the other captain will always stack and take a loss in line 1 with his worst line while winning line 2 and 3 with stronger players. If there are two singles in addition and one captain always plays straight up while the other stacks, it pretty much guarantees one singles win also.
So, for 3 lines of doubles, is the norm that weakest plays 1, middle plays 2 and strongest plays 3, or.....
Weakest plays 1, strongest plays 2 and middle plays 3?
The wildcard is that one captain has no way of knowing which pairs are going to play at which lines on the opposing team.
 

CHtennis

Rookie
In general, I suggest a 3-1-2 lineup to go into a match. If your team was exactly as strong as the other team it would be helpful. After that it gets into what the other captains do and how to best combat their strategies but I am getting into game theory.
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
So, for 3 lines of doubles, is the norm that weakest plays 1, middle plays 2 and strongest plays 3, or.....
Weakest plays 1, strongest plays 2 and middle plays 3?
The wildcard is that one captain has no way of knowing which pairs are going to play at which lines on the opposing team.
No, the process of deciding lineups if you are a serious captain is as follows:

- You look up the dynamic ratings of your opponent on tennis record.com or tls and rank them.
-Then you look at all the previous matches of your opponents in that season (or previous season if early in the season) and try to guess what kind of lineups orders they played in home and away matches. You try to guess what lineups they played against weak teams, strong teams etc.
- You have to keep track of what lineups you played for your team in the season as the other captain is likely analyzing it and trying to guess what you will play. So, his lineup will depend on what he thinks you will play to some extent and also based on what he likes to play. Since he doesn’t know your players actual strengths, he is likely looking at tennis record rankings and so, you have to keep track of not the actual lineup you played in each match, but the ‘perceived lineup order’ you played based on tennis record rankings.
- You try to guess the two most likely lineup orders they will play against your team.
- Then, you have a spreadsheet tool to come up with all the possible combinations you can play against those two likely lineups that give you the best possible chance of winning. For instance if all players at each line are somewhat equal in abilities, a stack will beat straight up, a double stack will beat a stack etc. Then, you can play other lineups like reverse stack, reverse-double stack etc.
- You have to make guesses based on the strength of the other team. For instance if we are playing a weak team and I guess they will play straight up or stack, I might just mirror their lineup and assume my line 1 will beat their comparable 1, my 2 will beat their 2 etc. But, if I’m playing a strong team, I might want to find a way to sacrifice my line 3 against their line 1 and win the other two lines. For the last 4.0 team I captained to Sectionals, I was successful pairing myself and my usual partner against the other team’s Line 1 in 75% of matches which is what I wanted as we were a super-strong pair at that level and we won all our regular season matches. It took a lot of guesswork to do this and it was an unconventional strategy but it worked and we won a lot of matches 3-2.
- All the above is for the three doubles lines. Unless I know for sure the other team will play straight up (based on prior record) in singles, I usually will always stack the two singles lines and hope to get at least one singles win.
- Then, you come up with the lineup order. You also have to communicate with your team throughout the season that the lineup order in each match is not an indication of what I think of each player’s playing level. If players are used only to playing for captains that play straight up, strong players might be upset about playing line 3. The weakest players may not like being sacrificed against a strong line and again you have to talk to them about it being best for the team.
- In my case, I organize doubles within the team and a singles ladder within my team a couple of days during the week and my teams have more fun playing these than our league matches where we are ’all-Business’ and focused on winning. I publish an internal list of my perception of singles and doubles ranking order within my team based on the practice matches every week. So, I’m very transparent about where I think each player ranks within my team.
- But, we have beer together after home matches and sometimes go to Pubs/bars after away matches and the socializing is fun. So, my weak players get good competition throughout the season against their team-mates and they don’t mind if they play only a few league matches and get sacrificed.

It takes me a couple of hours of preparation to do the opponent research and come up with the lineup order for each match. There are at least two or three other captains in each season who go about it the same way and it is always fun to try to out-strategize them with lineup order. I like game theory.
 
Last edited:

Chalkdust

Professional
In the local league here, this statement is always true ‘The winning team did NOT play lines straight up‘. New captains and teams that are playing entirely for social fun usually play straight up. Every team with a chance of winning the league usually has experienced captains that game plan a lot to out-scheme the opposing captain. If you know a team will always play straight up, the other captain will always stack and take a loss in line 1 with his worst line while winning line 2 and 3 with stronger players. If there are two singles in addition and one captain always plays straight up while the other stacks, it pretty much guarantees one singles win also.
I found the same to be true when I was captaining.

We were usually one of the stronger teams. And the other strong teams never played straight up. When setting our own lineups, I wasn't concerned with trying to predict what the other captain would do, since they were all pretty good at mixing things up. But I didn't want us to become predictable ourselves. So our strategy was to keep it completely random by literally spinning rackets to determine lines right before the match. That way there was no advantage to be gained either way. And I could spend my captaining effort on putting together the strongest pairings possible rather than on trying to out guess someone trying to out guess me!
 

zipplock

Hall of Fame
I found the same to be true when I was captaining.

We were usually one of the stronger teams. And the other strong teams never played straight up. When setting our own lineups, I wasn't concerned with trying to predict what the other captain would do, since they were all pretty good at mixing things up. But I didn't want us to become predictable ourselves. So our strategy was to keep it completely random by literally spinning rackets to determine lines right before the match. That way there was no advantage to be gained either way. And I could spend my captaining effort on putting together the strongest pairings possible rather than on trying to out guess someone trying to out guess me!
I like the idea of randomness more than trying guess what the other guy will do.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
I just tell my players stacking is a sign of weakness. If a team stacks against us, it means we should win every line. In a competition of amateurs, projection of strength is as important as actual strength.
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
Most teams that end up winning league, sectionals, etc, are strong top to bottom. There really isn’t much difference from court 1 to 3. For the teams that I have been on like that, courts were just randomly assigned. No stacking required. Stacking is the territory of middle of the pack teams.
 

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
Most teams that end up winning league, sectionals, etc, are strong top to bottom. There really isn’t much difference from court 1 to 3. For the teams that I have been on like that, courts were just randomly assigned. No stacking required. Stacking is the territory of middle of the pack teams.

What he said!

It is all about depth. If you have no depth and want to try to win your flight by all means stack and then get crushed at districts by the teams with depth where stacking isn't going to help you.

That being said ... knowing who your competition is and how they normally play their lines can be of some benefit.

I honestly think this works best on the singles lines and works less well with the doubles lines.
 

Crazy Finn

Hall of Fame
When my team went undefeated in the fall season a year ago, we didn't really have a top level doubles 1 team. What we did have was depth and a very good singles player. When we played the other top team in our league, I basically put 3 "doubles 2" teams out in some order and we'd usually win a singles match. We won either 3-2 or 4-1.

We had a few guys who were doubles 3 players and usually lost. However, by keeping the pairings pretty consistent and putting them against people they had a chance against, they improved and now they win a lot more often than they lose, sometimes even against the other good team in the league.

It took time, we only won 1-3 matches (of 8) per season for a year, but over time we worked hard and formed partnerships that were successful. Unfortunately, the virus robbed us any opportunity at sectionals or nationals this year.
 

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
If you are talking about building a team for regular adult league, just find 2 guys (sandbaggers hopefully) that can play singles and then put your best doubles pairing on court 3. You will have a shot in every match and only need 4 good players.
 

Traffic

Hall of Fame
Most teams that end up winning league, sectionals, etc, are strong top to bottom. There really isn’t much difference from court 1 to 3. For the teams that I have been on like that, courts were just randomly assigned. No stacking required. Stacking is the territory of middle of the pack teams.
Truth.
We have a core group of guys I've been playing outdoors throughout COVID and we've really bonded. And we've improved quite a bit. Our hope is to put together a team in the winter where our D3 players would rival many D1 courts of other teams. Our D1 players would play competitively in the next league up.
 

nyta2

Hall of Fame
main tip: don't do it...
if you ignore above tip... #1 job is communication...
don't forget to have fun...

personally after captaining for 2-3 seasons i followed the top tip :p
 

zipplock

Hall of Fame
main tip: don't do it...
if you ignore above tip... #1 job is communication...
don't forget to have fun...

personally after captaining for 2-3 seasons i followed the top tip :p
Maybe. I'm captaining my second team now. So far, so good. No drama. I agree with communication. I try to keep it short and sweet, simple weekly email/text. The nice thing has been meeting people I wouldn't have met and growing our small group of guys that have a similar outlook on league tennis.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Maybe. I'm captaining my second team now. So far, so good. No drama. I agree with communication. I try to keep it short and sweet, simple weekly email/text. The nice thing has been meeting people I wouldn't have met and growing our small group of guys that have a similar outlook on league tennis.

There are horror stories but they are the outliers, IMO. Most teams are pretty cool and some are great [same could be said about captains]. More than anything, I think the result is highly dependent on the captain and the team sharing a goal [be it to make Nationals or spread out the playing time] and to communicate that early.
 
Top