Tips on my tennis serve *update*

I posted a video of my serve before, I’ve worked on keeping my throwing arm up instead of dropping it so quickly to help get a higher contact point. I was hitting a mix of slice and flat serves.

 
CORRECTION - This serve looks more like the TomT technique. See later post.


Looks like the Waiter's Tray based on the racket face pointing to the sky. The high level technique has the edges of the racket roughly in line with the ball (for an instant).

Search: Waiter's Tray Error Hi Tech Tennis

I've posted on WT many times on this forum and also on the high level serve that includes internal shoulder rotation(ISR)
 
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pencilcheck

Semi-Pro
You are arming or using shoulder which is not healthy nor efficient.

Try start slower, where it is just enough to make a full swing, and try to feel using your hips (which means simply focus on leg positions that helps stabilize yourself, I recommend frog stance) to drive instead of shoulder or arm.

While doing that, try if you can fix a contact point and toss that helps to get the ball over the net, try to aim to get into the court, don't worry about service line for now (it will be ok since once you get the feel, it is easy to add topspin to pull the ball down so it will land into the service line).

Don't rush this kinda stuff, it is best if you start on the right track instead of rushing into result using the wrong kinetic chain.
 
You are arming or using shoulder which is not healthy nor efficient.

Try start slower, where it is just enough to make a full swing, and try to feel using your hips (which means simply focus on leg positions that helps stabilize yourself, I recommend frog stance) to drive instead of shoulder or arm.

While doing that, try if you can fix a contact point and toss that helps to get the ball over the net, try to aim to get into the court, don't worry about service line for now (it will be ok since once you get the feel, it is easy to add topspin to pull the ball down so it will land into the service line).

Don't rush this kinda stuff, it is best if you start on the right track instead of rushing into result using the wrong kinetic chain.
I was taught of throwing my racket at the ball or up into it, can you further elaborate, and frog stance? Thanks again
 
Looks like the Waiter's Tray based on the racket face pointing to the sky. The high level technique has the edges of the racket roughly in line with the ball (for an instant).

Search: Waiter's Tray Error Hi Tech Tennis

I've posted on WT many times on this forum and also on the high level serve that includes internal shoulder rotation(ISR)
I’ve noticed this many times, and is a struggle currently, I’ll keep trying, thanks!
 
I just looked again this time at your slow motion serves. (I usually don't look through 6 minute videos of serves and try to pick out which serves to analyze.) Your serve might have ISR but it is more a technique that I first noticed in TomT's serve. TomT was a TT poster.



It is not as simple as higher contact point.

The above thread has some analysis of TomT's serve and some very informative pictures of TomT's technique by Toly. In a few words, TomT uses a bend in his elbow and ISR (his upper arm bone rotates in his shoulder joint) for added racket head speed. See #3-5 pictures above. You might be doing the same thing as TomT only not so clearly?? This is the fast part of the serve and takes high speed video to show it, your 30 fps video is too slow.

Toly labeled these pictures.

The high level serve is different. It uses a near straight arm and bend at the wrist (forearm to racket angle) for racket head speed.


Other joint motions are also swinging the racket forward while the ISR is rotating the arm around its long axis.

High level serve at 240 fps. Look at near straight arm during acceleration to impact.
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Another poster's thread with a similar serve technique.

This serve analysis of TomT's serve has more detail.

I believe that TomT's serve is similar to the OP's. It has racket face to the sky, bent elbow and achieved good pace according to TomT. It's not a Waiter's Tray according to the Hi Tech tennis checkpoint example with the near straight elbow at Big L position.



Why does this work for pace? It makes effective use of the largest muscle connected to the arm - the................
 
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I just looked again this time at your slow motion serves. (I usually don't look through 6 minute videos of serves and try to pick out which serves to analyze.) Your serve might have ISR but it is more a technique that I first noticed in TomT's serve. TomT was a TT poster.



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Another poster's thread with a similar serve technique.
Sorry for not knowing, but what is ISR?
 
Sorry for not knowing, but what is ISR?
ISR is an abbreviation for internal shoulder rotation. It is a defined joint motion that you can Google, look up instructional videos on how to measure it, etc. The bone between the shoulder joint and elbow, humerus, rotates around its long axis like a spinning top, the bone does not go anywhere. ISR is powerful because large muscles rotate the humerus, lat, pec and a few others.

When the arm is straight both pronation and ISR cause the wrist and hand to rotate. Unfortunately when this was first noticed during the tennis serve it was called pronation by mistake. Pronation involves small muscles in the forearm. ISR involves large muscles such as the lat.

I have posted many times on internal shoulder rotation. The posts include videos, illustrations and references.

You should view the Ellenbecker video Rotator Cuff Injury. It discusses the angle of the upper arm to use to minimize the risk of shoulder impingement injury. Tennis Resources has the video and you need to join for the shortest membership, $30, to view it and their other videos. High level ATP servers are nearly all examples of good practice for the upper arm orientaion to the shoulder. Search Google and this forum: Ellenbecker tennis Rotator Cuff Injury impingement Chas

Among serving techniques there are 3 loose categories:
1) Waiter's Tray Serve - 50%? or more of active tennis players. (my estimate and Van der Meer's)
2) Miscellaneous techniques. 30%? - my estimate based on poster's serve videos. You are in this group.
3) High level serving technique - 20%? or less - my estimate

Since you have an unknown technique and have never heard of ISR you need to study threads, posts and internet information on the part played by ISR on the serve. Take tennis terms with caution as they are often used without clear definitions. Look at high speed videos. It is hard to say what good advice for and unknown technique is.

Kick serve. Look at the elbow as it rotates from ISR approaching impact - look at the bone shadows at the elbow.
To do single frame on Vimeo hold down the SHIFT KEY and press the ARROW KEYS. The video has text messages that only show for one frame.

Your video might show your elbow bone shadows in bright sunlight. Bone shadows can directly show ISR.

Notice for this kick serve that your technique does not have the same way to achieve the racket rising during impact. Notice that his racket tilts to the left while yours is more straight up. For the high level slice serve at impact the arm tilts to the right (but not as much as yours) and the racket tilts to the left.

I believe that this poster from 2017 has a somewhat similar miscellaneous technique to yours

It's close and identical camera angles would be better for comparisons. I'd say that his racket face rotates less in the horizontal direction, it just closes moving forward, when approaching the ball.

Toly picture of the high level serve with ISR.
 
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Wise one

Hall of Fame
You need to toss farther to the left and sweep over the ball with a swift motion that causes 3/4 topspin, hitting the ball about 2 o'clock.
 

user92626

Legend
@Chas Tennis

What
happened to old man TomT? You said he "was" a TT poster?

I'm only curious. This old guy for some reason was always a jack@$$ to me when I posted in the other section.

btw, why are you using an old guy for correction? He's lucky that he still could swing the racket at that age!

You can only bend young bamboos to make something out of them. Not old ones. :)
 
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