Tipsarevic: "pay in tennis is ridiculously low"
- Thread starter Achilles82
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BigServer1
Legend
94 guys on the PGA made 1MM in prize money, compared with 15 in tennis.
Wow. That is a staggering difference.
Wow. That is a staggering difference.
Achilles82
Professional
I noticed that couple of years ago, it is really incredible. And I feel tennis is more popular then golf worldwide. In USA golf is more popular, but overall i believe tennis is. And they make WAY WAY less money then golfers.
Imagine if players got 50%, or even 40% prize money from grand slams? Winner would get like 6 million dollars. For first round you would get 60 000$.
If this is true, that tennis players get only 12%, that is despicable.
And golfers don't even break a sweat. They don't have fitness training and condition in extreme heat or so. Or do weights and bench presses. No wonder tennis isn't big in the US because golf is where the money is. Less work but more money. Not to mention being able to play to a relatively old age whereas tennis careers end quite early.
Rickenbacker4003
Hall of Fame
And I thought my 9-7 job paid low. Then I read this article and I'm glad I'm not in Janko's free shoes.
vbranis
Professional
Tipsy is absolutely right!
I'll give the example of a guy I personally know, Adrian Ungur who finished at #115 last year. He played over 80 matches, virtually all of them on the Challenger Tour and made a meager $94,000. Take out all the expenses, and you can see he is not left with much. He is now at a career high #79 at 27 years old.
And if some of you remember, he beat Nalbandian in 4 at this year's French (his first time on a Slam main draw) and even got a set off Federer. So he's no dummy out there, the difference in skill and ability between even the #200 and the top 10 is actually remarkably small. These guys work just as hard, surely they deserve better.
If need be, I'm all for lowering the top players' paychecks in order to redistribute that prize money in Futures and Challengers.
I'll give the example of a guy I personally know, Adrian Ungur who finished at #115 last year. He played over 80 matches, virtually all of them on the Challenger Tour and made a meager $94,000. Take out all the expenses, and you can see he is not left with much. He is now at a career high #79 at 27 years old.
And if some of you remember, he beat Nalbandian in 4 at this year's French (his first time on a Slam main draw) and even got a set off Federer. So he's no dummy out there, the difference in skill and ability between even the #200 and the top 10 is actually remarkably small. These guys work just as hard, surely they deserve better.
If need be, I'm all for lowering the top players' paychecks in order to redistribute that prize money in Futures and Challengers.
darrinbaker00
Professional
Two words: Tiger Woods.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Golf takes so much less physical exertion than tennis, and you're much less likely to get injured. How many fat or out-of-shape guys do you see playing pro tennis versus pro golf? Tennis is a real sport, whereas, golf is more of a game. Having to win 7 best-of-five set matches in a row to win a Major in tennis seems much more difficult than winning a Major in golf. And golfers only have to learn how to play on grass, whereas, tennis player have to know how to play and move on grass, clay, hardcourts, indoors, etc. It really doesn't seem fair that pro golfers make a lot more money than pro tennis players.
diggler
Hall of Fame
Whether you sweat in golf is irrelevant. If people want to watch golf or darts or whatever, it is what the market pays.
Apart from the greater prize pool, I'm guessing the winning of tournaments in golf is more even. Golf doesn't have the same 2 guys winning all the time.
As for tennis, TV only shows the matches of the top players because that's what people want to watch. You could argue those low ranked guys deserve very little.
I've always thought the doubles prizemoney is just a little bit of communism to give some low ranked players some free money. You coudn't justify their prizemoney based on TV or ticket sales.
If you were the 100th best heavy weight boxer in the world, you wouldn't expect to earn much of a living from the sport.
Apart from the greater prize pool, I'm guessing the winning of tournaments in golf is more even. Golf doesn't have the same 2 guys winning all the time.
As for tennis, TV only shows the matches of the top players because that's what people want to watch. You could argue those low ranked guys deserve very little.
I've always thought the doubles prizemoney is just a little bit of communism to give some low ranked players some free money. You coudn't justify their prizemoney based on TV or ticket sales.
If you were the 100th best heavy weight boxer in the world, you wouldn't expect to earn much of a living from the sport.
Gonzalito17
Banned
ATP has surrendered too much to Billie Jean King and the WTA and their equal prize money bamboozle. Everybody knows mens tennis is the far bigger attraction and the womens is a sideshow. There is a lot of discontent in the mens locker room which has not gone public yet, maybe this is the first battle cry by Tips.
Equal prize money is a massive injustice to the ATP players.
Equal prize money is a massive injustice to the ATP players.
SLD76
G.O.A.T.
this this and this all day.
how many no name bubbas are making bank in golf.
And I wonder how the cost of practice and training in golf compares to tennis?
SLD76
G.O.A.T.
the butthurt is strong.
apples and oranges my friend, apples and oranges.
hell, league minimum in american football is I think 500,000 a year.
Same thing with basketball and baseball.
Are they more popular sports? Yes.
But tennis does generate an insane amount of money...its all about distribution.
ccmtennis
Semi-Pro
I think he is definitely right but that's why nadal suggesting they reduce the number of tournaments is ridiculous. Tennis like any other sports is about marketing and most elite athletes make most of their worth on sponsorship deals. Unfortunately he cant compared it to team sports where they are contracted and guaranteed money for a period of time. Golf is a much more expensive and has much more of a larger world wide base of people to market and sell merchandise compared to tennis so sadly it does come down to that from a sponsors view point
Borrelli
Semi-Pro
Exactly! Do the LPGA tour players get equal pay? of course not. They can barely find sponsers. Let the WTA play separate events and see how much sponsorship money they bring in.
D
decades
Guest
it's not like these guys are working in a factory in China for peanuts. obviously, it's an attractive lifestyle and profession. even the lower ranked players make some money and get to travel the world, get this, playing tennis all day. You're always going to exotic locations. You're always meeting attractive women who will absolutely swoon over you even if you tell her you're the 150th ranked player in the world.
So it's true that golfers do better. But if it's such a painful existence, why do so many people "put up" with it? you don't see a lack of people trying to be pro tennis players.
So you see it's much more than being simply about the money. It's also about lifestyle. Lots of these guys will gladly trade off a low income for the perks of traveling the world for 6-8 years in their 20s. The tennis pays their way.
I am sorry. Tipsy is a real smart guy. But he hasn't swayed me here. I don't suddenly feel sorry for the 86th ranked player in the world. Not when he is dating a bikini model from Nice France, and traveling to London next week to play tennis all day long.
So it's true that golfers do better. But if it's such a painful existence, why do so many people "put up" with it? you don't see a lack of people trying to be pro tennis players.
So you see it's much more than being simply about the money. It's also about lifestyle. Lots of these guys will gladly trade off a low income for the perks of traveling the world for 6-8 years in their 20s. The tennis pays their way.
I am sorry. Tipsy is a real smart guy. But he hasn't swayed me here. I don't suddenly feel sorry for the 86th ranked player in the world. Not when he is dating a bikini model from Nice France, and traveling to London next week to play tennis all day long.
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D
decades
Guest
really? are you sure? 3 of the top GS tournaments would not survive without government sponsorship, and in the case of USA, donations and dues from fans.
I don't' know if it's been established who is exactly making all the money in tennis. Wilson? Babalot? maybe. But Prince just filed for BK and they are massive in the sport of tennis. The top players for sure. The tournament owners? not sure. Lots of tournaments fail. In fact the AO and FO were awful tournaments not too many years ago till tennis authorities got their act together. Still lots of rearranging tournaments because some aren't paying the freight.
Tennis is not in a boom like it was in the 70s. See all those empty seats in Paris? And if you believe that the US Open sets attendance records every year you don't understand how that's manipulated by USTA and corporate sponsors to create the illusion of prosperity. It's safe to say Wimbledon does very well year in and year out. So does Tiffany.
So we don't really know the economics of the sport all that well. What we do know is that the top ten players do very well financially.
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D
Deleted member 21996
Guest
spend less in tattoos...
Tipsarevic is from a country that has yet to master all the nuances of capitalism. Instead of comparing tennis to golf, why not compare it to professional lacrosse, a sport in which players also work hard and deal with much more physical punishment, and he'll suddenly be grateful for what he earns from tennis (though not terribly grateful). He needs to understand the various revenue flows a sport produces (or doesn't produce) to understand why tennis players don't earn all that much, and also how interchangeable (replace one, and nobody will know the difference) the guys outside the top 50 are.
dcdoorknob
Hall of Fame
The main issue, which I thought Tipsarevic pointed out quite well, is this:
This has nothing to do with not understanding capitalism, or tennis not generating enough revenue. The revenue is there, but the players are only seeing 11-13% of it. That is pretty pitiful. He has a great point. There would be no revenue if not for the players, and I think they have a right to collectively ask for more than 11-13% of the revenue at the slams.
mike84
Professional
please tell me where lacrosse arenas are getting filled with spectators and sponsors day in/out.......
Evan77
Banned
Tipsy does have a good point. Forget about top 3 divas and top 20. Lower ranked players do struggle. It has been brought up so many times. Tennis is not about traveling and meeting models. These guys need to make living too. They won't be able to play tennis till they are 70yo, like golfers.
and why is golf more popular than tennis? because any fat *** can play it. look at how many golf pros are fat. then you have millions of fat asses who can't do anything physical, yet they'll go and play some golf with their buddies, or watch some golf on TV, drinking beer and eating some junk food. go figure.
and why is golf more popular than tennis? because any fat *** can play it. look at how many golf pros are fat. then you have millions of fat asses who can't do anything physical, yet they'll go and play some golf with their buddies, or watch some golf on TV, drinking beer and eating some junk food. go figure.
sundaypunch
Hall of Fame
Golf lends itself perfectly to big sponsorship dollars. The nature of tennis tournaments makes it much less attractive to sponsors in the USA.
There is a golf tournament basically every week in the USA. All of the good players are course on Saturday and Sunday from 1-6pm. It is a product that is perfect for TV. Basically a $6 million prize money tournament every week.
If tennis could provide live programming every weekend in the USA with all the fan favorites playing they would also have companies throwing money at them. Obviously this isn't possible.
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For a so called 'dumb *****',as you describe him, this 65th ranked guy's has career earnings of $2.8m.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Ma/N/Nicolas-Mahut.aspx
Probably more than you've earned in your lifetime.
This 40th ranked guy has pulled in career earnings close to $4m.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Xavier-Malisse.aspx
Who's the dumb ***** now?
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Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Agree to the tee. $50,000 prize money in challengers are ridiculous. and at least top 100 guys should be millionares. Only problem is that Tennis just isn't as popular as Golf. not as much money rolling into the sport from sponsors like Gold has. This does play some role
Maybe if he was less concerned on the financial aspect and more concerned of developing his own skills, and started winning more often, he would ACTUALLY be earning a lot more.
No point whining. If you ain't cut for it, get out of here. There are tons of players who sacrifice their lives for tennis because they love the sport.
No point whining. If you ain't cut for it, get out of here. There are tons of players who sacrifice their lives for tennis because they love the sport.
Faster
Hall of Fame
He's not complaining at any point about his own earnings.....
D
decades
Guest
a millionaire is someone that "has" a million. not someone who earns a million in one year. again, perhaps #80 in the world would rather go wait tables in Moscow and actually do some real work? But then he couldn't cavort on the beaches of Monte Carlo with French Models. the fact is most great tennis players have been coddeled for much of their young lives, spending months on end in tennis academies in Spain and Florida. They come from very well to do families. This is why there is no "Occupy Billy Jean Tennis Center" movement afoot. It's hard to get worked up over spoiled kids who travel the world over playing tennis for a living, while their peers struggle to find decent jobs and put food on the table.
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Is it due to the number and richness of the corporate sponsors in golf?
DRII
G.O.A.T.
Really, do you think that's true?
I once started a thread comparing Federer to Tiger Woods ; and how Tiger Woods did more for golf than Federer did for Tennis. This was at the time where the comparison was very apt in my mind. Both had like 12 majors and we're clearly dominating their respective sports; before the Tiger scandal, and both were very friendly with one another. Of course I was lambasted by Federer fans!
But, the economic data comparison between golf and tennis might be telling (an argument I used in the original thread) I'm not going to blame it all on Federer, Nadal and Nole are also on top now.
I wonder what the pay for top golfers were before Tiger and how that compares with the corresponding time for top tennis players before Federer??? Do golfers just have a better union or sponsors??? I really don't get the discrepancy!
Usually I do not agree with Tipsy or find him off-putting, but he might be on to something.
Achilles82
Professional
You don't think tennis is as popular as golf? I disagree.
In the USA, yes, golf is more popular, especially now days where there are no great american tennis players. Yes, Fish, Isner, they are good, but they are not Sampras nor Agassi.
But world wide, I say tennis is more popular.
batz
G.O.A.T.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
He is already grateful for what he earns in tennis. His concern is for the bulk of touring pros who are not making the money that they should to keep up with expenses.
analysis_king
Rookie
well, golf tournaments cost considerably less than tennis tournaments to organize. golf tournaments last only 4 days, while tennis tournaments range between 1-2 weeks long. stadium costs are also harder to amortize, they aren't open to the public usually for play. golf courses are open throughout the year and charge exorbitant green fees, from which they derive the majority of their revenues. in short, the cost of tennis tournaments are much higher relative to golf tournaments, hence they can't dedicate a higher percentage of the total revenues to prize money compared to golf.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
It's not his own shoes that he is concerned about. He is speaking for the players outside of the top 20 or 50 or so. The cost of travel and lodging is not cheap when you have to pay your own way. Companies pay for much of that when the send their people on business trips. Pro teams probably pay for much of this as well. Is it any wonder that the best the best athletes in the US go into sports other than tennis.
analysis_king
Rookie
2.8M isn't a lot, considering how much these folks spend. airfare, accommodation, nutrition etc. there really isn't much left. think about it -- an average investment banker makes about 300k in his first year at work. and he can do this for 15-20 years, with remuneration doubling every 3-4 years. the tennis player has only about 10 years total for his professional career. 2.8M really isn't that much.
Faster
Hall of Fame
And why do you think it's mostly spoiled kids? Because it's nearly impossible for normal people to get there due to the costs/payment-ratio.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
But they do offer a considerable amount of prize money to the players who win and those who make it to the later rounds. Why not reduce those levels somewhat so that the other players get a bit more. The top players are already making some decent coin from endorsements. Do they really need to receive HUGE prizes when others are struggling?
They can still receive generous prizes even if the total prize money is distributed a bit more equitably. Remember that 75% of the players don't make it past the 2nd round for a given tournament. It is these ppl who need a bit more compensation.
On the face of this argument, tipsy may feel some empathy for the lower ranked players, but ultimately it's about competition and choice. Each of these players entered the fray knowing that the path they chose might be a rocky one. No different than any other sport, good to have a plan B just in case, like a college degree. Most of these players have thoughts of granjour, hoisting grand slam trophies over their heads, and are told their entire lives they are the next Sampras or Graff. I know, grew up playing alongside a lot of talented players, whom did not have a backup plan when they found out the truth.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
^ But it IS different than other sports. The distribution of wealth is better in many other sports. Many more people are making a decent living playing baseball in just the US alone than playing tennis on the pro tour. We would probably get more talented athletes playing pro tennis if the distribution was more conducive to it.
okdude1992
Hall of Fame
how much of that 2.8 mil do you think Mahut actualy has. After food hotel and airfair for himself, coach, and team, as well as taxes he probably has virtually none of that left. There was a thread on here a while back about how much the guys actually are left with in salary. it is not much.
Also malisse is 40 in doubles not singles. But he was top 20 at 1 point which is where that 4 mil comes from.
Anyway my 2c:
It doesn't matter how many matches the guys play or how hard they work. It matters how much $$ they can bring in from ticket sales, tv viewership ect. And clearly they deserve much more than 11-13% of that revenue. give them at least 30 or 40% At the end of the day, they are playing for the love of the game/lifestyle, but they need to make a living also.
okdude1992
Hall of Fame
I don't get why some people can't seem to understand: it is total greed that the players get such a small chunk of the revenue
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Consider this. So far this year, Sharapova has earned nearly $4.4 million (just for this year). Nadal has received more that $4.9 million this year. The other top players are close to those figures. Now if all this prize money was spread a lit bit more equitably, the situation would be better. Note that these top players are also receiving appearance money for some events and are getting quite a bit from sponsors as well. No reason why the prize $ at the top can't be spread around a bit more than it is.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
The money should go to the entertainers or to give things for free or cheaper to the fans. Some fat cat in a chair does not deserve anything.
UltimateBombero
Rookie
How do endorsements work? For instance, is Nadal getting money from nike as well as free gear? Does it go further down the line...i.e, is Roddick getting checks from Lacoste? Mattek-Sands from Under Armour?
vbranis
Professional
Most juniors trying to become pro want to either:
a) Become top 20 and make millions
b) Get a college scholarship if that doesn't seem to work out
And you'd be surprised at how many of those journeymen ranked between 100 and 1500 absolutely despise being there but are delusional and unrealistic enough to believe that they can one day crack at least the top 50. That's why they're out there, not so much for the love of the game or the Futures lifestyle.
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