To what level can S&V take you?

Ballinbob

Ballinbob

Hall of Fame
I know this is the 2nd thread in one day, but I need some insight on this

I'm a S&V player (15 years old) with a big serve and good volleys. I S&V on all first serves and I win alot of matches using this style of play. I want to know to what level can I keep S&Ving? Pretty much everyone has told me that once I hit 5.0 and upper 4.5 that S&V wont work? I argued that by then my serve will be even bigger and volleys even better so it wouldn't matter. I don't want to practice a style of play that will become usless at the higher levels. I am working my as$ off training (5hrs a day) to become better to make it to a DII school. The last thing I want is for me to get to an upper 4.5 then find Im getting destroyed all of a sudden. By the way, will S&V work at the college level?
I will still work on groundies of course, but will use S&V as a main style of play. I practice groundies, but I feel like I play better just hitting big serves and backing them up with my volleys. Will I HAVE TO go to a baseline player? I don't want to, but if thats the only way to make it to a good DII school then so be it.

Thanks guys
 
IMO, it will stop working if you do not impart variety in your serve. You have to keep your opponent guessing where your serve goes.
 
Variety isn't a problem. I mix flat,kick, and slice alot. Do you think that S&V will take me to the 5.0 level though?
 
I don't know much about whenever or not S+Ving won't work, but I think that you can always work on serve and volleying. I think that it would definitely make you a better all-court player in the end. It also gives you a variety whenever you want to change the tempo of the match. I don't think you HAVE TO go become a baseline player, but I think that you should make sure that your groundstrokes can keep up with what level you're playing. Then your volleys and serves would make you even better.


My opinion. xO
 
Level 5.0 is all about consistency and power. If you have no problems with both, I don't see why you cannot achieve. Watch how Sampras played during the heydays and you get the picture. If you play S & V one-directionally like Max Miriyin( pardon the spelling ) then its a waste of time
 
7.0 :) you made a pretty good point by saying that when your 5.0 your serve and volleys would be developped enough to take on better players. if you're around the 3.5 ish to 4.0 regions S&V is very effective as they are rare. many players at the level don't know how to play aganist them they panic and ultimately fail. by the time you are at say 5.0 you should know how to use your other strokes like your fh and bh to help set up your S&V. or at least be able to support it if its not working out.

as your ntrp raises your game has to adapt to different also. but what do i know im a noob lol
 
unprotennis said:
7.0 :) you made a pretty good point by saying that when your 5.0 your serve and volleys would be developped enough to take on better players. if you're around the 3.5 ish to 4.0 regions S&V is very effective as they are rare. many players at the level don't know how to play aganist them they panic and ultimately fail. by the time you are at say 5.0 you should know how to use your other strokes like your fh and bh to help set up your S&V. or at least be able to support it if its not working out.

as your ntrp raises your game has to adapt to different also. but what do i know im a noob lol
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No, I agree 100% lol. It makes sense doesnt it? Your serve and volleys improve as your NTRP goes up. Im curious to why so many people say that you must play a more baseline oriented game once you get better. Is it just b/c there arent many people who can both serve and volley well or what? I dont get it. I know that returns will be better at higher levels, but so will my volleys.
 
i think the actual answer doesnt lie with the S&V side of your game, it will lie in the return of serve and your 2nd serve

i play exclusively s&v and holding serve is what I'm all about, breaking serve is where i battle. Having strong enough groundies to get the short ball to attack is required. Chipping off 2nd serves is possible but risky

When I play against stronger players then me, they make too many solid returns at my feet and then have accurate passing shots.

if you have reasonably fast courts then you can get away with it but the slower courts are really tough at the higher levels
 
Ballinbob said:
No, I agree 100% lol. It makes sense doesnt it? Your serve and volleys improve as your NTRP goes up. Im curious to why so many people say that you must play a more baseline oriented game once you get better. Is it just b/c there arent many people who can both serve and volley well or what? I dont get it. I know that returns will be better at higher levels, but so will my volleys.
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yes no doubt but an aggressive return of serve is a "better" shot then a low volley or a half volley so you get stuck in a defensive position in the point but in an offensive position on court so you are not in control of the point. If you aren't controlling the point and you are at the net then you are in trouble
 
Solat said:
i think the actual answer doesnt lie with the S&V side of your game, it will lie in the return of serve and your 2nd serve

i play exclusively s&v and holding serve is what I'm all about, breaking serve is where i battle. Having strong enough groundies to get the short ball to attack is required. Chipping off 2nd serves is possible but risky

When I play against stronger players then me, they make too many solid returns at my feet and then have accurate passing shots.

if you have reasonably fast courts then you can get away with it but the slower courts are really tough at the higher levels
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Absolutley right about the fast courts. During winter season (which is now lol), I excel at tournaments b/c of the fast indoor courts. I just serve right through my opponent, and if they get the serve back I volley it into the open court. And yeah, breaking serve is a pain. I don't approach of many 2nd serves, I will usually stay back and wait to approach. I chip and charge alot of 2nd serves with good success as long as the serve doesn't kick like 6ft. Of course the better players will return more solidly. However, if you play your own level and keep improving you will learn to deal with those players wont you...because your serve and volleys will be better.
 
here's what i think--

yes, all the way to the pro level, but only if your serve becomes exceptional. i say this only because at some point, if your first volley is anything but perfect, a really good player is going to pass you, no questions asked, off a ball they have a reasonable chance to set up to. you need that meatball return to set up the second volley, unless you're stefan edberg, in which case, you don't need us.
 
my serve is my weapon and its all i really have. I hit it cleanly and has good power and placement. My serve is way ahead of the rest of my game, which my volleys close behind my serve. I am fast (can run a 100m in 11.9s) and can close in on the net to make a safe first volley.

So you guys think if I keep at and keep practicing, this style of play will carry me to a 5.0 DII level?
 
Michael Llodra and Nicolas Mahut are both firmly inside the top 100, why don't you ask them if serve and volley works at the higher levels of the game?
 
Who the f**k said that? I'm working on transitioning into becoming more of a S&V player/All courter. This would not be good for me :D

Anyways, why would it fail? There are pros that can do it.

I highly doubt DII players can create enough spin to create a dipper like the pros. Also, are you gonna be playing on clay the whole time?


I would work on becoming more all court especially for return games, but don't stop S&Ving!
 
Mansewerz said:
Who the f**k said that? I'm working on transitioning into becoming more of a S&V player/All courter. This would not be good for me :D

Anyways, why would it fail? There are pros that can do it.

I highly doubt DII players can create enough spin to create a dipper like the pros. Also, are you gonna be playing on clay the whole time?


I would work on becoming more all court especially for return games, but don't stop S&Ving!
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This guy called my coach said that lol. He played DII college and said that everyone plays from the baseline b/c S&V just doesn't cut it at that level. He said that passing people at net in singles is too easy and its better to be a counter puncher. He said this b/c everyone on our team is fitter than fit, and he wants us to counter punch the opponent to death. Also Namranger said that the higher the level of tennis, the less effective S&V is. People also say that S&V is not a percentage play. I say it is if you have a brain and just volley to the stinkin' open court instead of a ridiculous angle volley or a punch volley dtl that barely clips the line. I also get alot of comments from players I beat who say "I hope you know that S&V will never work as you get better. If you ever get to X level then you'll get killed.So even if you won today doesn't mean sh**". I know these ppl are mad at loosing, but I have gotten this comment like 4 times before. It has always left me thinking...
I know pros can do it. Roddick serves and volleys but he still sucks at it. Most return games I end up chipping it dtl and rush the net hoping for the best or I just wait for a short-semi short ball and charge lol. I play on fast indoor surfaces allmost all year round which makes my game pretty effective.

Thx for the advice guys. I guess that if I keep working on it I can succeed with my S&V style of play at the college level. Hoping to get there someday...
 
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Ballinbob said:
This guy called my coach said that lol. He played DII college and said that everyone plays from the baseline b/c S&V just doesn't cut it at that level. He said that passing people at net in singles is too easy and its better to be a counter puncher. He said this b/c everyone on our team is fitter than fit, and he wants us to counter punch the opponent to death. Also Namranger said that the higher the level of tennis, the less effective S&V is. People also say that S&V is not a percentage play. I say it is if you have a brain and just volley to the stinkin' open court instead of a ridiculous angle volley or a punch volley dtl that barely clips the line.
I know pros can do it. Roddick serves and volleys but he still sucks at it. Most return games I end up chipping it dtl and rush the net hoping for the best or I just wait for a short-semi short ball and charge lol. I play on fast indoor surfaces allmost all year round which makes my game pretty effective.

Thx for the advice guys. I guess that if I keep working on it I can succeed with my S&V style of play at the college level. Hoping to get there someday...
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I see. But wasn't your coach the guy that loves counter punching?

Namranger probably said so because of the way pro tennis is today. The poly strings, courts, etc have contributed to killing Serve and volley. But like I said, how often will you be playing on clay? How often will you be playing players that can hit passing shots as well as the pros? The pros have massive racquet head speed. Massive! It's all about playing with your mind. Last I checked, F. Lopez helped win this year's Davis Cup final for Spain using serve and volley. It is a percentage play only if you play it smart!
 
Don't listen to those jealeous clowns who tell you that serve and volley won't work at the higher levels. They're just mad cause they couldn't handle your aggressive style.
 
yeah, my coach is the guy who loved counterpunching and he puts down all other playing styles to make counterpunching look good. and what exactly is the deal with poly strings? I play with wilson superspin strings and I like them. I have no idea what type of string they fall under, they just work for me.
 
Ballinbob said:
yeah, my coach is the guy who loved counterpunching and he puts down all other playing styles to make counterpunching look good. and what exactly is the deal with poly strings? I play with wilson superspin strings and I like them. I have no idea what type of string they fall under, they just work for me.
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Poly is stiffer, and deader, with much less feel than say gut or multis, even synthetic gut. Because it's deader, you can wail away with it more and it'll probably still land in because of the spin you get from wailing away. Now, use those dead strings to impart lots of spin at the net man's feet=hurting a serve and volleyer's tactics.
 
S/V can take you all the way to the pros. I don't see how it's a limiting game if Pete took it to the top.
 
S&V can take you to all levels of play.

But i think the key is what you do on your SECOND serve, bcos you did mention that you S&V on first serves. The way you describe your serve and volleys, then S&V all you want on your first serve.

But what do you do on your second serve? Stay back? Or do you still S&V?
 
Right now, S&V can take you really, really high up. Specially since most kids these days are learning baselining, and baselining only. Since they don't face constant pressure from attackers, they tend to fold rather quickly. Most kids are not good with passing shots either. They may pass you the first 5, 10 times, but they cannot pass you for two hours.

I'm a 24 y.o S&Ver, and I scare the crap out of my competition, and I play 70% of the time on slooow red clay :D

Learn mainly two serves: an unnatackable kicker that gives you plenty of time to reach the net; and an aggressive topspin-slice serve that goes in 65-70% of the time. Then, work on placement: T, wide and body. Kickers to the body are the bread and butter serve for most net rushers, since they usually get the weakest replies.

Work on variety, and forget about the flat hard 1st serve ;)
 
Returning Serves

I think the thing you will have to work on the most is your return of serve.

I'm sure you will be able to get S&V to work at any level you achieve, as long as you're the one serving. You might find that breaking serve will be a LOT harder, especially as you move up in rank and people become better at pinning you to the baseline.

If you can take apart the opponent's serve, I'm sure you'll be able to approach the net a lot more, and do what you do best... Volley! None of that groundstroke business :P


Good luck, I wish you the best
 
Andres Guazzelli said:
Right now, S&V can take you really, really high up. Specially since most kids these days are learning baselining, and baselining only. Since they don't face constant pressure from attackers, they tend to fold rather quickly. Most kids are not good with passing shots either. They may pass you the first 5, 10 times, but they cannot pass you for two hours.

I'm a 24 y.o S&Ver, and I scare the crap out of my competition, and I play 70% of the time on slooow red clay :D

Learn mainly two serves: an unnatackable kicker that gives you plenty of time to reach the net; and an aggressive topspin-slice serve that goes in 65-70% of the time. Then, work on placement: T, wide and body. Kickers to the body are the bread and butter serve for most net rushers, since they usually get the weakest replies.

Work on variety, and forget about the flat hard 1st serve ;)
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High kick serves make sense on clay, and I agree that that would be the best serve for that surface. However, when your talking fast indoor surfaces, flat and slice serves are the bread an butter for this surface. I'm fast enough to follow my flat serves and make it to the service line in time. On these surfaces the faster and lower the ball is the better. The slice serve can jam opponents as well. I can make my flat serve go in 55-60% of the time and 75% for slice. Well I guess I'll just keep at my S&Ving. I honestly am surprised at how rare they are. I guess it comes down to wether wanting to play offensive or defensive tennis. I hate returning serve b/c im on the defensive. But when im serving bombs at my opponents and then cutting of their time with volleys, nothing feels better. I even switched to a 1hbh a while back to allow me to attack short balls on that side and follow them to the net. Why do you guys think this style of play isn't practiced anymore?

downdaline i stay back on most 2nd serves. I usually hit a heavy slice for my 2nd and wait for a short return.
 
S&V will make you a better doubles player in College

Keep in mind that doubles is important in college tennis. With a strong serve and volley game you probably will be a much better doubles player than a baseliner player would be.
 
Ballinbob said:
High kick serves make sense on clay, and I agree that that would be the best serve for that surface. However, when your talking fast indoor surfaces, flat and slice serves are the bread an butter for this surface. I'm fast enough to follow my flat serves and make it to the service line in time. On these surfaces the faster and lower the ball is the better. The slice serve can jam opponents as well. I can make my flat serve go in 55-60% of the time and 75% for slice. Well I guess I'll just keep at my S&Ving. I honestly am surprised at how rare they are. I guess it comes down to wether wanting to play offensive or defensive tennis. I hate returning serve b/c im on the defensive. But when im serving bombs at my opponents and then cutting of their time with volleys, nothing feels better. I even switched to a 1hbh a while back to allow me to attack short balls on that side and follow them to the net. Why do you guys think this style of play isn't practiced anymore?

downdaline i stay back on most 2nd serves. I usually hit a heavy slice for my 2nd and wait for a short return.
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Nice to see some other kids close to my age (17) going the S&V path. Everyone here has very good tips, and the only thing I would add is to build a passable ground game. I S&V 95% on first and 75% on the second serves, but I only chip and charge a good 40% of the time. The groundgame will definitely help on the return side.
 
Jonny S&V said:
Nice to see some other kids close to my age (17) going the S&V path. Everyone here has very good tips, and the only thing I would add is to build a passable ground game. I S&V 95% on first and 75% on the second serves, but I only chip and charge a good 40% of the time. The groundgame will definitely help on the return side.
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Looks like you have alot of confidence in your 2nd serve. Depending on the returner, Ill S&V on my 2nd too, but usually I only do it 40-45% of the time. My first serve is my weapon, can make my flat in 55-60% of the time and hit 80-85 (i hit 92 once, but was on fire that day) mph with it consistently. My 2nd is a pretty spinny slice that goes out wide... My groundstrokes are average, and I chip back 2nd serves like 60% of the time. I hate being stuck back playing the other guys game. I just spin back everything with my groundstrokes to be safe. I'm guessing you played tennis for your highschool if your 17.Howd that go?
 
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Ballinbob said:
Looks like you have alot of confidence in your 2nd serve. Depending on the returner, Ill S&V on my 2nd too, but usually I only do it 40-45% of the time. My first serve is my weapon, can make my flat in 55-60% of the time and hit 80-85 (i hit 92 once, but was on fire that day) mph with it consistently. My 2nd is a pretty spinny slice that goes out wide... My groundstrokes are average, and I chip back 2nd serves like 60% of the time. I hate being stuck back playing the other guys game. I just spin back everything with my groundstrokes to be safe. I'm guessing you played tennis for your highschool if your 17.Howd that go?
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I hit an American Twist 90% of the time on my first (gives me time to get in) and 50% on my second (both speeds average 75-85 mph) with the other 10% of first serves being flat serves in the upper 110 mph range (I've hit 2 serves at 117 mph, but that was when my shoulder was at 100% in a practice session) and then kick the other 50% of my second serves (did all of that make sense?). I block all serves back (unless they're sitters or I'm really mad...) but I make the other players play my type of baseline game (not to brag, but no-one I've ever seen at the high school/college level can match my variety).

High school tennis goes pretty good for me (all conference last season at #3, pretty deep team) but I lost my match at districts in 3 1/2 hours to the #1 seed (6-4 4-6 5-7...). I seem to improve 1000% right after the season is over with and then I build on those improvements til the next season (I have only been playing tennis for 4 years after all...). Sorry for the rambling...
 
wow, and here i am bragging about my 90mph serve lol. It looks like you've got one hell of a game. I hope that when im 17 ill be able to hit 110, that'd be awesome. I can run a 11.9 second 100m dash, so i can get to the service line even if i bomb a flat. and its good to brag sometimes lol, thats good that you have variety. Ive been playing for 4 years as well and hope to get as good as you at 17.
Highschool tennis was ok for me. I played #3 singles as well and won 7/12 of my matches. Lost in regionals to the #2 seed with a really good return game.
 
Ballinbob said:
wow, and here i am bragging about my 90mph serve lol. It looks like you've got one hell of a game. I hope that when im 17 ill be able to hit 110, that'd be awesome. I can run a 11.9 second 100m dash, so i can get to the service line even if i bomb a flat. and its good to brag sometimes lol, thats good that you have variety. Ive been playing for 4 years as well and hope to get as good as you at 17.
Highschool tennis was ok for me. I played #3 singles as well and won 7/12 of my matches. Lost in regionals to the #2 seed with a really good return game.
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I'm just lucky that I'm coordinated with a 6'2" wingspan (I'm 5'11'' in height lol). I wish I could run a 100m that fast, but I'm just quick. :)

I was nowhere near 90 mph at 15... I was probably closer to 75-80 range. I've worked on my shoulder and wrist strength a lot and the power just came naturally. I like my flat serve, but it's nowhere near as reliable as my twist and kicks. I get greater satisfaction from getting a twist serve to kick 7 feet up then a 110 mph that the guy can get back if he gets his racquet on it. Plus, being able to do the splits and having a flexible back doesn't hurt.
 
Jonny S&V said:
I'm just lucky that I'm coordinated with a 6'2" wingspan (I'm 5'11'' in height lol). I wish I could run a 100m that fast, but I'm just quick. :)

I was nowhere near 90 mph at 15... I was probably closer to 75-80 range. I've worked on my shoulder and wrist strength a lot and the power just came naturally. I like my flat serve, but it's nowhere near as reliable as my twist and kicks. I get greater satisfaction from getting a twist serve to kick 7 feet up then a 110 mph that the guy can get back if he gets his racquet on it. Plus, being able to do the splits and having a flexible back doesn't hurt.
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Yeah, my serve and volleys are pretty much the only things I can rely on in tennis. And my fitness too i guess. I run a 11.9 100m and a 5:18 mile, so I can outlast anyone at my age as well as outrun them (im on my varsity track team too). Kick serves are great no doubt, especially for players like us. I just prefer slice and flat serves just b/c I like to hit the ball hard. The serve is the only time I'm able to hit the ball as hard as possible and control how I do it (if that makes sense lol..). And my god, a 7ft kicker is crazy good. My straight topspin kicks like 5ft tops lol. Thats a serve I need to give more attention to. I pretty much serve right through my opponent with big serves, and I need to learn to be able to hit an american twist (not straight topspin). Your right though, a good kick serve can be tougher than returning a flat serve especially when it kicks to your backhand.

edit-can you really do the splits? Are you a girl by any chance?
 
Ballinbob said:
Yeah, my serve and volleys are pretty much the only things I can rely on in tennis. And my fitness too i guess. I run a 11.9 100m and a 5:18 mile, so I can outlast anyone at my age as well as outrun them (im on my varsity track team too). Kick serves are great no doubt, especially for players like us. I just prefer slice and flat serves just b/c I like to hit the ball hard. The serve is the only time I'm able to hit the ball as hard as possible and control how I do it (if that makes sense lol..). And my god, a 7ft kicker is crazy good. My straight topspin kicks like 5ft tops lol. Thats a serve I need to give more attention to. I pretty much serve right through my opponent with big serves, and I need to learn to be able to hit an american twist (not straight topspin). Your right though, a good kick serve can be tougher than returning a flat serve especially when it kicks to your backhand.
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Yeah, well good luck with your game! Don't expect insta-results with the new things that you learn. Take it a step at a time. BTW, where do you live? If you don't feel comfortable posting on here, my email is: jonny_sv@live.com

EDIT: There is an underscore between the jonny and the sv.
 
I'm going to agree with most of the other people who've responded to this question: Yes, keep up the S&V.

A few things to consider however:
1. Serve-Yes, you have confidence in your serve, I know. But if you want to play college level tennis, you'll need a serve that goes at least 100mph, and more importantly, a serve that you can place on a dime. Accuracy and placement. And you'll probably have to beef up the second serve if you plan to come in on it.

2. Groundstrokes- Don't neglect them, nothing else to really say here.

3. Approach shot- You'll need some really nice approach shots if you plan on going to the net a lot.

4. Net game- Not just the volleys either. You want really good half-volleys, and an excellent overhead.

5. Return- Returns, returns, returns. You can't win if you only hold. You can't lose either, but the game doesn't end until someone wins.

Just my humble opinion.
 
500 miles away? Im guessing you live in australia or something? Yeah theres not many S&Vers. Ive never played one either. I wonder how the rallies would be. Just volley it back at each other until someone misses lol, thatd be fun.
 
OhDear said:
I'm going to agree with most of the other people who've responded to this question: Yes, keep up the S&V.

A few things to consider however:
1. Serve-Yes, you have confidence in your serve, I know. But if you want to play college level tennis, you'll need a serve that goes at least 100mph, and more importantly, a serve that you can place on a dime. Accuracy and placement. And you'll probably have to beef up the second serve if you plan to come in on it.

2. Groundstrokes- Don't neglect them, nothing else to really say here.

3. Approach shot- You'll need some really nice approach shots if you plan on going to the net a lot.

4. Net game- Not just the volleys either. You want really good half-volleys, and an excellent overhead.

5. Return- Returns, returns, returns. You can't win if you only hold. You can't lose either, but the game doesn't end until someone wins.

Just my humble opinion.
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Yeah im working on it. Decided to keep the S&V as well. I got a crap load to work on obviosuly, so I just need practice.
 
Ballinbob said:
500 miles away? Im guessing you live in australia or something? Yeah theres not many S&Vers. Ive never played one either. I wonder how the rallies would be. Just volley it back at each other until someone misses lol, thatd be fun.
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My coach is a really good S&Ver but he's about 30 years my senior... If you want, you can add me on FB. Give me your email and I'll email my profile to you...
 
Never was into the facebook/myspace stuff. I guess Ill try it out sometime. I just text my friends to talk to them. Don't really see the need of it. Obviously alot of people disagree with me, as FB and MS are very popular.

Thanks though
 
Ballinbob said:
Never was into the facebook/myspace stuff. I guess Ill try it out sometime. I just text my friends to talk to them. Don't really see the need of it. Obviously alot of people disagree with me, as FB and MS are very popular.

Thanks though
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It's really handy, I have friends all over the US so it makes it a lot easier to keep up with them. :)
 
Ballinbob said:
This guy called my coach said that lol. He played DII college and said that everyone plays from the baseline b/c S&V just doesn't cut it at that level. He said that passing people at net in singles is too easy and its better to be a counter puncher. He said this b/c everyone on our team is fitter than fit, and he wants us to counter punch the opponent to death. Also Namranger said that the higher the level of tennis, the less effective S&V is. People also say that S&V is not a percentage play. I say it is if you have a brain and just volley to the stinkin' open court instead of a ridiculous angle volley or a punch volley dtl that barely clips the line. I also get alot of comments from players I beat who say "I hope you know that S&V will never work as you get better. If you ever get to X level then you'll get killed.So even if you won today doesn't mean sh**". I know these ppl are mad at loosing, but I have gotten this comment like 4 times before. It has always left me thinking...
I know pros can do it. Roddick serves and volleys but he still sucks at it. Most return games I end up chipping it dtl and rush the net hoping for the best or I just wait for a short-semi short ball and charge lol. I play on fast indoor surfaces allmost all year round which makes my game pretty effective.

Thx for the advice guys. I guess that if I keep working on it I can succeed with my S&V style of play at the college level. Hoping to get there someday...
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I played S&V. And I once won against a 5.0 college player when I was at 4.5. That was more a decade ago!!

I haven't known a single person who don't play S&V but really understand the actual elements behind this style. S&Vers are rare. Most other players will see the game from their viewpoints, and will judge the appropriateness of any playing decision based on what they will do, not what a S&Ver can do.

It's also not right for a quote that S&V is not a percentage play, because Jack Kramer who introduced "percentage tennis" proposed it based on S&V style. It just depends on the meaning of "percentage" from a person's perspective to another's. The original "percentage tennis" is the play that has the highest chance of "winning the point", not just the shot selection that has the highest chance of getting the ball back without making mistake or getting beaten.

It's probably how high level you can take your S&V game up to. At higher level of play, S&V probably transitions into a "net rushing" style which means that it doesn't have to be only the serve that bring the volleyer to the net. The approach shot, the return of serve, and even some attacking groundstrokes could all be the door openner into the front part of the court. Most successful pros with S&V style hit other strokes reasonably well too.
So I think it's a better idea to expand your stroke repertoire, rather than changing your style of play.
 
Chris Guccione (left handed S&V) def Jessie Levine round 1 USOpen 2008 before losing in a four setter to Stephanic in round two.
QED, you can at least get to that level as a serve and volleyer.........
 
namui said:
I played S&V. And I once won against a 5.0 college player when I was at 4.5. That was more a decade ago!!

I haven't known a single person who don't play S&V but really understand the actual elements behind this style. S&Vers are rare. Most other players will see the game from their viewpoints, and will judge the appropriateness of any playing decision based on what they will do, not what a S&Ver can do.

It's also not right for a quote that S&V is not a percentage play, because Jack Kramer who introduced "percentage tennis" proposed it based on S&V style. It just depends on the meaning of "percentage" from a person's perspective to another's. The original "percentage tennis" is the play that has the highest chance of "winning the point", not just the shot selection that has the highest chance of getting the ball back without making mistake or getting beaten.

It's probably how high level you can take your S&V game up to. At higher level of play, S&V probably transitions into a "net rushing" style which means that it doesn't have to be only the serve that bring the volleyer to the net. The approach shot, the return of serve, and even some attacking groundstrokes could all be the door openner into the front part of the court. Most successful pros with S&V style hit other strokes reasonably well too.
So I think it's a better idea to expand your stroke repertoire, rather than changing your style of play.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input. Nice to see that we S&Vers can still get pretty far. And yeah, I think S&V is percentage tennis if you play it right. I always go for placement on my serve and then volley into the open court and never dtl, for that is the percentage play. I am developing my groundstroke game and I think its gotten alot better. My backhand slice is consistent and I got a okay topspin forehand. Im working on it.

You guys convinced me. Im staying S&V all the way to college baby:)
 
It is really only at a D1 / Pro level do you really start to see why S&V died out. Even at a D1 level, there are still quite a few guys out there who make their living at the net (one of the USC guys does, as does one player from Duke, new recruit at Texas also does to an extent).


At a pro level, everyone is so good at anticipating, and nearly everyone has decent groundstrokes to trouble you if you give them even a chance at the pass. Not only that, surfaces are much slower than before. Thus why you do not see alot of S&V success on the tuor.


At an amateur level though, S&V can easily take you to a 5.0 level if you work on your game hard enough. As many posters stated before, the best S&V players actually have good returns. Sampras had a very underrated return game by many people on these boards. He excelled at attacking short balls and could chip and charge, and also retrieve well.


Anything above the 5.0 level though, you will start to run into some problems. It's really only at the pro level (IMO) though that S&V really becomes a hindrance rather than an asset.
 
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