Today's tennis is just sickening....

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Can't see why for the life of you, you picked her to win in 3, or eve get a set off her honestly. I had good money on Petra.

Grass is all about the serve and return of serve. I agree with becoming more a complete player, some players don't need to become complete players, like Kvitova. However when you're an attacking player and your weight of shot isn't amazing like Serena, Kvitova's and Sharapvoa's then you really do need to build other assets and faculties to your arsenal.
she certainly had a chance if she had served and returned well, which she did for half of the first set. Bouchard actually was taking a lot of time away from Kivitova when she got the first strike in because she hit the ball so early.

i didn't expect Kivitova to make so few errors.
 
she certainly had a chance if she had served and returned well, which she did for half of the first set. Bouchard actually was taking a lot of time away from Kivitova when she got the first strike in because she hit the ball so early.

i didn't expect Kivitova to make so few errors.
Quite frankly the match was on Kvitova's racquet. Disagree it would have made much difference realistically speaking. Perhaps saved the bagel.

The weight of shot difference is too much. It's like Berdych vs Lorenzi interms in weight of shot difference. Bouchard just doesn't have the firepower in her aggressive game to get Kvitova onto the backfoot and if you can't do that then you're screwed, coz on the front-foot, she'll just crush balls past you. Each time Bouchard was being suppressed from being able to play her aggressive style game. Squashed almost. Immediately, straight away. Kvitova would either have the one two punch off her serve, the ace... or she'd have the ball sitting up to her strike-zone off the Bouchard's serve on the return.

Another thing is the kick serve of Bouchard has no effect on grass. Most kick serves don't.

Kvitova wins the matchup on grass or any other slicker surface at the end of the day and calling her to lose to bouchard would be just hoping for errors at the end of the day, which you admit you basically did. lol (Though admit, this was a concern of mine)
 
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The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
Yes, it takes so much brains to try and whack a winner on every ball. I'd bet she has an IQ that surpasses even Einstein. :oops:

Tennis is supposed to be like chess, not Call of Duty. :???:
Have you ACTUALLY PLAYED Call Of Duty!?... serious tactical skills and strategies involved in that game.....
 
lol

Tennis is supposed to be like chess on slow-surfaces. On fast surfaces it's supposed to be about shot-making.

I cannot believe BreakPoint is a Sampras fan, yet despises one ball bash tennis.

Sampras had many faculties to his game, many, but for many parts throughout his matches in his career, he was playing one, two ball bash tennis. That's how dominant his serve was. S & V is hardly chess mate. You out bluff your opponent and then read where their opponent is going and punch away the volley, or whatever.

You get tactics on the slower surfaces, not surfaces like grass or indoor fast hardcourt. Though there are only two fast indoor hard surfaces around these days, Basel and Stockholm. The rest are medium to slow. Paris Masters is slow as mud, Valencia 500 slow as mud (Catered for their Spaniard percentage players) London o2 is medium with medium bounce. All for spectator value.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3SmrwGg1gE Just watch this and accept it. EVOLUTION!
 
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The Green Mile

Bionic Poster
lol

Tennis is supposed to be like chess on slow-surfaces. On fast surfaces it's supposed to be about shot-making.

I cannot believe BreakPoint is a Sampras fan, yet despises one ball bash tennis.

Sampras had many faculties to his game, many, but for many parts throughout his matches in his career, he was playing one, two ball bash tennis. That's how dominant his serve was. S & V is hardly chess mate. You out bluff your opponent and then read where their opponent is going and punch away the volley, or whatever.

You get tactics on the slower surfaces, not surfaces like grass or indoor fast hardcourt. Though there are only two fast indoor hard surfaces around these days, Basel and Stockholm. The rest are medium to slow. Paris Masters is slow as mud, Valencia 500 slow as mud (Catered for their Spaniard percentage players) London o2 is medium with medium bounce. All for spectator value.
I am surprised that this is only 6 years ago

Safin vs Davydenko 2008 Kremlin Cup QF. Quite fast for only 6 years ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI4Grym86Tk
 

HRB

Hall of Fame
This thread is disrespectful to the game, to the incredible display Kvitova put on today, and to the up and coming talent that is Bouchard. The thread comes off as bashing these players who are maximizing their potential in tennis. It's a little like those criticize Magnus Carlsen because they don't like the fact that computers have changed the way that humans play chess. The thread is also ironic as it directs us to a video of Evert when Evert herself has been so supportive of Bouchard and the next generation of players.
I love your last line, the "get off my lawn" Nostalgiaphiles never address the fact that the former players who used the style and equipment they covet so dearly, actually often APPLAUD AND ENJOY THE MODERN GAME!!!
 

HRB

Hall of Fame
Yes, it takes so much brains to try and whack a winner on every ball. I'd bet she has an IQ that surpasses even Einstein. :oops:

Tennis is supposed to be like chess, not Call of Duty. :???:
Go back and read the all post disputing you fool...I'M IN GREAT COMPANY around here..mutual annoyance at your continued NONSENSE!!!

Tennis isn't supposed to be like ANYTHING BUT TENNIS...and the modern game has EVOLVED..something you CLEARLY CAN'T HANDLE...so GO AWAY AND WATCH THE MASTERS TOUR OLD MAN!!! LMAO:twisted:
 

HRB

Hall of Fame
Spoken like a true aficionado of the game. :roll:
Yup..it is..in fact like a true "aficionado" I enjoyed that style back in the day, then it evolved into the UBER ATHLETIC FAST PACED GAME of today and I, for one, and many here apparently..don't EVER WANNA GO BACK TO THAT YAWN FEST!
 

HRB

Hall of Fame
Bouchard has done nothing objectionable in my opinion. She seems like a future champion. I think some of the pushback against her on these boards is due to sexism and the fact that she's attractive. Guys here get bent out of shape because she's confident, playing professional tennis and they would have zero chance with her even if she wasn't famous ha! Just my "two cents." These boards are the pits these days.
WOW...who'd ever think that a Polish Composer via of Paris would become my favorite poster on the TT threads!!!!:twisted: You speak logic my friend..I gotta warn you...it's a rarity around these parts...especially when it comes to the WTA!
 

freelans

Rookie
THat video was so slow it was cringeworthy op.
If you want to play that type of racquet sport, more power to you, check out paddleball.
Today's game has evolved. Players still serve and volley, they just look for the right opportunity.
 

winstonlim8

Professional
I've realized that it's pointless to try convincing anyone that the game needs variety instead of the dingdongpingpong that's become par for the course so I'll have to be content with the thought that eventually tennis audiences will start shrinking because the non-players will become so bored with 2,389 shot rallies on every point that they will start watching more exciting games like tiddlywinks and the sponsors will start getting less exposure and returns for their $$$ and then they will be screaming for more excitement and variety (ergo shorter rallies, etc.) and it will happen.

At that point, all the dingdongpingpong hearts will be broken by a new generation of all-court attacking players who will make watching tennis somewhat akin to watching a fencing match.

It won't happen during my lifetime, but it will happen because fewer and fewer people will want to watch, much less take up a game that resembles watching taking turns to paint a 12-storey mansion one paint stroke at a time.








PS
They might have to make bikinis mandatory on the WTA first before that happens, however...though I sincerely doubt that's going to work for long.
 

HRB

Hall of Fame
I've realized that it's pointless to try convincing anyone that the game needs variety instead of the dingdongpingpong that's become par for the course so I'll have to be content with the thought that eventually tennis audiences will start shrinking because the non-players will become so bored with 2,389 shot rallies on every point that they will start watching more exciting games like tiddlywinks and the sponsors will start getting less exposure and returns for their $$$ and then they will be screaming for more excitement and variety (ergo shorter rallies, etc.) and it will happen.

At that point, all the dingdongpingpong hearts will be broken by a new generation of all-court attacking players who will make watching tennis somewhat akin to watching a fencing match.

It won't happen during my lifetime, but it will happen because fewer and fewer people will want to watch, much less take up a game that resembles watching taking turns to paint a 12-storey mansion one paint stroke at a time.








PS
They might have to make bikinis mandatory on the WTA first before that happens, however...though I sincerely doubt that's going to work for long.

So this statement alone summarizes the doom of our sport: "a new generation of all-court attacking players who will make watching tennis somewhat akin to watching a fencing match."!

Why you ask, simple....NO ONE IS WATCHING FENCING!!!! Let's hope in BOTH our lifetimes this doesn't become true.
 

winstonlim8

Professional
You're right. Dingdongpingpong will be around for some time yet. After all, it's much harder to acquire a full set of playing skills, isn't it?
 

JAY1

Semi-Pro
So this statement alone summarizes the doom of our sport: "a new generation of all-court attacking players who will make watching tennis somewhat akin to watching a fencing match."!

Why you ask, simple....NO ONE IS WATCHING FENCING!!!! Let's hope in BOTH our lifetimes this doesn't become true.
You absolutely negate any decent point you make by having a pic of Sharapova on your user profile etc. I don't need to explain why, if I do then God you need help....
 

Chace

Hall of Fame
How I long for the days pulling up to the courts in my 77 Datsun while blasting some tunes from the 8 track. Whip out a couple of good ole wooden rackets strung with gut and play a chess like match of tennis. Head back home in time to catch the wimby finals on the good ole 27 inch RCA black and white tv. Gotta make sure to get those "rabbit ears" just right to get good enough reception to see the ball.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
At least the men's final was 100 times better than the women's final, mostly because of Federer's artistic display of classic all-court tennis - serving and volleying, chipping and charging, attacking the net, mixing up slices and spins, etc.
 

reversef

Hall of Fame
Kvitova is a talented shotmaker. It's too bad she had to face the overhyped scrub in the final. The real final was R3 vs Venus
I have to agree with your last sentence. I watched some parts of the match, and I was really impressed by Venus Williams. I'm not a fan of hers at all, but I thought "too bad, she may have just lost to the future winner of this Wimbledon". She was better than Kvitova in that match IMO. I've not seen all the match, but she impressed me more. But she was oh so tired, it was painful to watch. For the first time, I realized how her condition stopped her from being competitive at the highest level. Apart from that, she was as good as Kvitova as a shotmaker, but she was much smarter and had better tactics.
 

HRB

Hall of Fame
You absolutely negate any decent point you make by having a pic of Sharapova on your user profile etc. I don't need to explain why, if I do then God you need help....
Picture of Masha shows I like attractive woman, who also happen to be grand slam champions, and fierce, never give up, competitors.

Oh let me guess, the big, loud, powerful girl who shrieks scares the hell out of you? Go back to your clips of moon ballers in frumpy skirts from the 80's and Youtubing fencing matches....LMAO!
 

HRB

Hall of Fame
How I long for the days pulling up to the courts in my 77 Datsun while blasting some tunes from the 8 track. Whip out a couple of good ole wooden rackets strung with gut and play a chess like match of tennis. Head back home in time to catch the wimby finals on the good ole 27 inch RCA black and white tv. Gotta make sure to get those "rabbit ears" just right to get good enough reception to see the ball.
CLASSIC...I do miss a nice B-210 though!
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
I have to agree with your last sentence. I watched some parts of the match, and I was really impressed by Venus Williams. I'm not a fan of hers at all, but I thought "too bad, she may have just lost to the future winner of this Wimbledon". She was better than Kvitova in that match IMO. I've not seen all the match, but she impressed me more. But she was oh so tired, it was painful to watch. For the first time, I realized how her condition stopped her from being competitive at the highest level. Apart from that, she was as good as Kvitova as a shotmaker, but she was much smarter and had better tactics.
agree completely, except i've always been a big fan of V.W.!

even a greatly diminished Venus was the near equal of the eventual champion...
 

krprunitennis2

Professional
Picture of Masha shows I like attractive woman, who also happen to be grand slam champions, and fierce, never give up, competitors.

Oh let me guess, the big, loud, powerful girl who shrieks scares the hell out of you? Go back to your clips of moon ballers in frumpy skirts from the 80's and Youtubing fencing matches....LMAO!

Dude what makes you think they're scared of Sharapova?

They're just saying that they'd prefer to see more strategic tennis rather than pure ball striking. And those moon balling women in frumpy skirts from the 80's are no way less fierce, persistent, or as strong competitors and grand slam champions than Sharapova. In fact, you may even argue that they are even more persistent as they are willing to play through long grueling points rather than outright ending the point with one amazing shot.
 
lol Breakpoint is a joker.

Anyone that agrees with his ranting and acknowledges they as having listened to it, gets a thumbs up and an 'excellent post mate, you get it'.

You just wanted to have some people to moan to and those to say, we acknowledge what you say and you're right. Everybody needs a moan at someone about something they feel aggrieved about. You are just the same. Needing someone to listen to it. lol

Well I listened breakpoint and I disagreed. So shove that in your pipe and then snort it.
Whoever wishes to play with a half a kilo racquet is free to do so.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
So I just watched the Wimbledon women's final and it was just ridiculous! Just two players blasting the ball at each other. These modern racquets have destroyed the beautiful sport of tennis. Gone are the strategy, point construction, finesse, touch, guile, etc. Now the entire strategy is just to hit the ball as hard as you can on every shot. Kvitova hit some shots that she had no business hitting. Give her a wood racquet and no way does she come close at hitting those kind of shots.

Tennis is supposed to like chess on a big board. A cerebral game. Now it's like nothing but a shoot 'em up video game. It's disgusting! If you want to play a video game, get yourself an Xbox. Tennis is supposed to be mano-a-mano using only your natural abilities with nothing to aid you. Today's tennis is like allowing boxers to bring weapons into the ring. Wouldn't that also ruin the sport of boxing?

This has gone way too far for too long. It's like allowing the players to bring AK-47's onto the court to blast each other away. Wood racquets were the closest thing to having no weapons at all. Tennis should be all you and you being the only only weapon. Tennis was never invented to be played the way it is today. Or else they would have made the court smaller and the net higher.

This is the way tennis was meant to be played: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0uoVeHmsIw

End of rant.
You pick one older video where the players are the opposite of the 2014 Wimbledon final...which is dishonest--at best--as it suggests no hard-hitting players existed before the current era, or that no player today utilizes--as you put it:

strategy, point construction, finesse, touch, guile, etc
Blanket assessments do not help your position.
 

West Coast Ace

G.O.A.T.
I don't agree with @BP too often, but do on this. The women hit the ball hard until it doesn't come back.

While I respect them for the time to ingrain those strokes, they just don't have the athleticism and guile that you see in the mens' game. Thus it's an inferior product.
 

Sander001

Hall of Fame
Have you ACTUALLY PLAYED Call Of Duty!?... serious tactical skills and strategies involved in that game.....
LOL very true. To the outside observer without knowledge it can look like a mindless shooting gallery but it's far from it. Sure, many people do play brainlessly but that doesn't bring success.

Same with tennis. Having a power game doesn't preclude one from employing tactics or forethought. It's just more difficult to observe. OP is having this difficulty.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Kvitova is a victim of mud surfaces and homogenization. She'd evolve as an entirely different player on fast indoor, carpet and actual fast grass of the 90's.
Wild fantasy. You are projecting a kind of player that the real Kvitova is not now, or ever would be in any era.

If she struggles to be a greater player under today's conditions, then it is her own issue, as others have played on the alleged changing surfaces, and it did not stop them from winning majors.
 

firepanda

Professional
Yeah. I'm of the opinion that the steady change from wooden racquets to modern racquets has improved the mens game but harmed the womens. For some reason the women don't cover the court as well as the men do while still hitting with similar power thanks to new racquets and strings. So rallies are shorter and a seeing a slice volley is like a shooting star hitting a blue moon.
 
So I just watched the Wimbledon women's final and it was just ridiculous! Just two players blasting the ball at each other. These modern racquets have destroyed the beautiful sport of tennis. Gone are the strategy, point construction, finesse, touch, guile, etc. Now the entire strategy is just to hit the ball as hard as you can on every shot. Kvitova hit some shots that she had no business hitting. Give her a wood racquet and no way does she come close at hitting those kind of shots.

Tennis is supposed to like chess on a big board. A cerebral game. Now it's like nothing but a shoot 'em up video game. It's disgusting! If you want to play a video game, get yourself an Xbox. Tennis is supposed to be mano-a-mano using only your natural abilities with nothing to aid you. Today's tennis is like allowing boxers to bring weapons into the ring. Wouldn't that also ruin the sport of boxing?

This has gone way too far for too long. It's like allowing the players to bring AK-47's onto the court to blast each other away. Wood racquets were the closest thing to having no weapons at all. Tennis should be all you and you being the only only weapon. Tennis was never invented to be played the way it is today. Or else they would have made the court smaller and the net higher.

This is the way tennis was meant to be played: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0uoVeHmsIw

End of rant.
If anything, I think today's game is more mental than physical. With the new rackets and strings, you have so many different shots with different spins and angles you can hit. Conditioning is also a lot better.

Also, there is way more money on the line these days for the players. The pressure from that can easily double the mental pressure of any players.

So better equipments, physical conditioning, and loads of money actually make today's game very complicated and high pressure for players. Even though all we see is they hit harder.
 

AM95

Hall of Fame
BP has a point. Tennis channel aired the '99 final between Steffi Graf and Lindsay Davenport. While those weren't wooden racquets, the tennis was definitely much more interesting to watch.

However, the new racquet technology lends itself to ball bashing mostly just in the women's game. You can't really get away with that sort of stuff on the ATP tour.
 

cknobman

Legend
I just watched that match the other day, LOL

It was interesting to see how much more there was to tactics in that match vs today.
 

tacou

G.O.A.T.
I love when people include links with these posts. That match doesn't look at all special to me, and a lot more baseline play than i would have imagined
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
WHAT WAS SO TACTICAL ABOUT THE 99 WOMEN'S FINAL :confused:

WHAT I SAW WAS GRAF NOT BEING ABLE TO COME ACROSS HER BACKHAND AND THUS WAS CONSTANTLY SLICING, MOSTLY CROSS-COURT, ALLOWING DAVENPORT TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE VAST MAJORITY OF RALLIES...

now the 2005 semi (Davenport vs Mauresmo) was somewhat tactical and a good match, but no more entertaining than a so called women's basher match, which i guess many of the complainers on this thread would claim that the 2005 women's final was (Venus vs Davenport).

and if any of you detractors of women's 'basher' tennis happen to be a Janowic (sic) fan; please realize you're one of the biggest hypocrites ever...
 

big ted

Hall of Fame
most of the wta players dont seem to have alot of mental toughness either. many usually only play well when theyre behind and have nothing to lose. also once they reach no1 or win a gs, they cant sustain it and go downhill.

also many have errant tosses on their serve which suggest nerves coming into play
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
WHAT WAS SO TACTICAL ABOUT THE 99 WOMEN'S FINAL :confused:

WHAT I SAW WAS GRAF NOT BEING ABLE TO COME ACROSS HER BACKHAND AND THUS WAS CONSTANTLY SLICING, MOSTLY CROSS-COURT, ALLOWING DAVENPORT TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE VAST MAJORITY OF RALLIES...

now the 2005 semi (Davenport vs Mauresmo) was somewhat tactical and a good match, but no more entertaining than a so called women's basher match, which i guess many of the complainers on this thread would claim that the 2005 women's final was (Venus vs Davenport).

and if any of you detractors of women's 'basher' tennis happen to be a Janowic (sic) fan; please realize you're one of the biggest hypocrites ever...
I agree that the 2005 semi between Mauresmo and Davenport was a very good and tactical match but totally disagree that it was no more entertaining than today's baseline basher matches. I thought that semi was immensely entertaining, whereas today's baseline basher matches are snoozefests. Mauresmo's serve and volley plays were awesome, hitting some sublime volleys, and her 1HBH was great. She set up points beautifully. :)
 

DRII

G.O.A.T.
I agree that the 2005 semi between Mauresmo and Davenport was a very good and tactical match but totally disagree that it was no more entertaining than today's baseline basher matches. I thought that semi was immensely entertaining, whereas today's baseline basher matches are snoozefests. Mauresmo's serve and volley plays were awesome, hitting some sublime volleys, and her 1HBH was great. She set up points beautifully. :)
i meant that really good somewhat tactical match was no more entertaining than a really good basher match like the 2005 final or even the other semi from that year (Venus vs Sharapova)...
 

Graf=GOAT

Professional
Wild fantasy. You are projecting a kind of player that the real Kvitova is not now, or ever would be in any era.

If she struggles to be a greater player under today's conditions, then it is her own issue, as others have played on the alleged changing surfaces, and it did not stop them from winning majors.
You can't deny that Kvitova is a fast court player and grinders and pushers frustrate the hell out of her on modern mud surfaces. She has great serve, touch, powerful flat groundstrokes, she'd be insane on 90's grass, fast indoor hard and carpet. The fact that modern tennis rewards, moonballing, grinding and pushing is the reason why talented shotmakers like Kvitova cannot have any success.
 
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