Toni Nadal: Play like Federer if you want to beat Nadal

[PeoplesChamp]

Speaking at a conference at the Valencia Job Fair, Toni was asked what advice he would give a player if they had come up against Rafael and while he said Federer and Novak Djokovic were better placed to give an answer, he reckoned emulating the Swiss would be the way to go.

"It would be complicated because he is a guy who always looks for solutions,” he said.

“If anything, I would tell him to play as Federer."

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/1201449/Roger-Federer-Rafael-Nadal-Uncle-Toni

 

[Krish872007]

Fred is unbelievable when he's on so makes sense. Serving, forehand placement, variety and now the BH too.

But what about Novak Djokovic, the man who beat his nephew 28 times? 2 streaks of 7 wins in a row? Including that destruction throughout 2011? All in finals too, 3 of which Slam Finals. Or is Djokovic just too difficult to emulate...

Should add that God Mode Murray is basically unbeatable in any case.

 

[icedevil0289]

started from the bottom and now we're here. lmao never thought we'd get here after 2014.

 

[daggerman]

Fred is unbelievable when he's on so makes sense. Serving, forehand placement, variety and now the BH too.

But what about Novak Djokovic, the man who beat his nephew 28 times? 2 streaks of 7 wins in a row? Including that destruction throughout 2011? All in finals too, 3 of which Slam Finals. Or is Djokovic just too difficult to emulate...

Should add that God Mode Murray is basically unbeatable in any case.

The problem with playing like Djokovic to beat Nadal is that it depends on consistently outlasting Nadal from the baseline. You won't be able to do that unless you *are* Novak Djokovic.

 

[Third Serve]

Makes sense given the way Federer has played him since 2014. Obviously not accurate across his whole career but Fed has definitely done a great job mixing up the play when he faces Nadal.

 

[clayqueen]

Has Toni been to the Trollander university?

 

[octobrina10]

Has Toni been to the Trollander university?

He was joking.

 

[SpinToWin]

Loving you two jokesters above.

Clearly Fed is doing something right game plan-wise if he manages to reverse the trend of their matchup at this stage in his career. Toni is very much right that Fed's game plan is one of the main things one ought to consider. That said, consideration and execution are rather distinct from one another.

Djokovic is a similar issue, though I suppose even more difficult to execute in that you need to have amazing movement and be crazy solid off both wings to pull off what Novak does.

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

Ban Toni, no?

 

[BeatlesFan]

Fred is unbelievable when he's on so makes sense. Serving, forehand placement, variety and now the BH too.

"Now" Fed has a BH? You should have watched him in 2003-2007 when his BH was easily superior to anything he brought in 2017. Please spend three minutes of your life watching this.

 

[Sysyphus]

"Now" Fed has a BH? You should have watched him in 2003-2007 when his BH was easily superior to anything he brought in 2017. Please spend three minutes of your life watching this.

Oh please

yes, fed was an impressive player in 2004-2007 and did many things better then than now.

But there's a good reason that Fed has struggled with Nadal ever since the latter was an incomplete article of 17. And it's largely because Fed used to struggle to counter the predictable but effective backhand assault that Nadal wielded with his serve and forehand.

If you rewatch the actual tapes, you'll easily see that the old Fedal matches used to have endless streams of this pattern

Whereas with the confidence given by the larger and more stable racquet, Fed started to do quite a bit more of this.

 

[Lew II]

"Now" Fed has a BH? You should have watched him in 2003-2007 when his BH was easily superior to anything he brought in 2017. Please spend three minutes of your life watching this.

Highlights of one match against the mediocre Blake?

What is this supposed to prove?

 

[Robert Baratheon]

Oh please

yes, fed was an impressive player in 2004-2007 and did many things better then than now.

But there's a good reason that Fed has struggled with Nadal ever since the latter was an incomplete article of 17. And it's largely because Fed used to struggle to counter the predictable but effective backhand assault that Nadal wielded with his serve and forehand.

If you rewatch the actual tapes, you'll easily see that the old Fedal matches used to have endless streams of this pattern

Whereas with the confidence given by the larger and more stable racquet, Fed started to do quite a bit more of this.

I agree some with both you and belittle.
Fraud had a great BH in 2003-2007 but as you say he has gotten much more aggressive with it recently but it should be noted that Nadal wasn't quite his old self in 2017.

The movement wasn't quite as effective in '17 and as a result the retrieval wasn't either.
Before 2012 I think Fraud would also hit such almost winners but Ned would put them back in play somehow, sometimes twice or thrice in a rally, finally agitating Fraud and making him make an error or hit an Inside Out Fraudhand while giving up a lot of the court to Nadal to run down Fraudhand and hit his own DTL Fraudhand in the open court.

Nad doesn't do that all that much now.
So I am not so sure if 2017erer would win against the original "topspin FH high to BH" strategy of Peakdal.

 

[SaintPetros]

Toni always giving Rafa a boost lol

 

[PeoplesChamp]

Has Toni been to the Trollander university?

He was joking.

Highlights of one match against the mediocre Blake?

What is this supposed to prove?

Toni always giving Rafa a boost lol

 

[Sport]

Whereas with the confidence given by the larger and more stable racquet, Fed started to do quite a bit more of this.

Federer was already with a larger racquet at the AO 2014 and still lost to Nadal. They have only played 4 Grand Slam matches with Federer having a bigger racquet. They are 2-2, but the sample size is quite small to see any significant difference in Slam matches.

 

[octobrina10]

Thanks for posting the GIF. Now I know what you look like!

 

[Sysyphus]

Federer was already with a larger racquet at the AO 2014 and still lost to Nadal.

well, naturally, we shouldn't expect anyone to make a serious gear change and not need some adjustment time.

The layoff at the end of 2016 was seemingly instrumental, also per his own words, as it allowed him to take a longer-than-usual time to adjust his game. It catapulted him into a very inspired start to 2017.

 

[Red Rick]

well, naturally, we shouldn't expect anyone to make a serious gear change and not need some adjustment time.

The layoff at the end of 2016 was seemingly instrumental, also per his own words, as it allowed him to take a longer-than-usual time to adjust his game. It catapulted him into a very inspired start to 2017.

Hmm. I think it was more the mental reset that was more important. I don't think he was much better in 2017 than he was in the Wimbledon-Australian Open stretch of '15/'16, big difference being Djokovic.

 

[Sysyphus]

Hmm. I think it was more the mental reset that was more important. I don't think he was much better in 2017 than he was in the Wimbledon-Australian Open stretch of '15/'16, big difference being Djokovic.

he quite clearly changed his approach to hitting backhands going into 2017, in a way that payed big dividends in the Nadal match-up, which what I'm talking in this thread, not whether he was in absolute terms better in 2017, 2015, 2012 or 2004 and so on and so on.

I agree that he wasn't appreciably worse in 2015 than in 2017, just slightly different. The seeds to the more compact, driven on-the-rise backhand of 2017 were planted with SABR in 2015 anyways, so it's a gradual process.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Oh please

yes, fed was an impressive player in 2004-2007 and did many things better then than now.

But there's a good reason that Fed has struggled with Nadal ever since the latter was an incomplete article of 17. And it's largely because Fed used to struggle to counter the predictable but effective backhand assault that Nadal wielded with his serve and forehand.

If you rewatch the actual tapes, you'll easily see that the old Fedal matches used to have endless streams of this pattern

Whereas with the confidence given by the larger and more stable racquet, Fed started to do quite a bit more of this.

Federer shoring up his BH return against doll's spinbotting has been a really pleasant development, indeed. Rally BH was edging back to a more measured approach already in Miami '17 though. Honestly Fred's rally BH was almost good enough even back in the dais, it was the return that let him down big time against topspindal.

 

[Apun94]

The problem with playing like Djokovic to beat Nadal is that it depends on consistently outlasting Nadal from the baseline. You won't be able to do that unless you *are* Novak Djokovic.

But the same goes for Federer. That serve, that Forehand, that movement. You cant do it all, unless you *are* Roger Federer

 

[Sysyphus]

Federer shoring up his BH return against doll's spinbotting has been a really pleasant development, indeed. Rally BH was edging back to a more measured approach already in Miami '17 though. Honestly Fred's rally BH was almost good enough even back in the dais, it was the return that let him down big time against topspindal.

Yeah, I think it's fair to say that the effect has been bigger on return.

I do think it has benefitted him slightly in rallies as well, in the sense that where he could get get passive with the backhand when Nadal got him onto the backfoot, he has become more at ease with just driving the backhand aggressively in those instances instead of getting caught in the headlock. It's risky and can leak errors, but it ends the rally on his own terms, and Nadal hates that. Which I do think is a tactical change that has benefitted him.

But yes, he could certainly rally very well off the backhand back in the day as well, also against Nadal, at least on lower-bouncing surfaces.

 

[Apun94]

"Now" Fed has a BH? You should have watched him in 2003-2007 when his BH was easily superior to anything he brought in 2017. Please spend three minutes of your life watching this.

Exactly. People dont realise this but Fed actually had a very solid BH in his prime. And he could pull the trigger and go DTL very consistently, especially on faster courts. Agassi said it after the 2005 USO, there's no place to go against Federer. There's nothing in his game you could break down.
But I am not so sure about Fed dealing with high balls to his BH in his peak

 

[merwy]

The problem with playing like Djokovic to beat Nadal is that it depends on consistently outlasting Nadal from the baseline. You won't be able to do that unless you *are* Novak Djokovic.

This exactly. When Toni says to emulate Federer, I imagine he means to go for winners and hope to be perfect on that day. You can't beat Rafa while emulating Djokovic unless your bones are made of elastic and you've borrowed Eliud Kipchoge's lungs.

 

[steelcity32]

started from the bottom and now we're here. lmao never thought we'd get here after 2014.

“Here” = 1-1 vs. Nadal on the year with no slams and a masters

 

[Krish872007]

"Now" Fed has a BH? You should have watched him in 2003-2007 when his BH was easily superior to anything he brought in 2017. Please spend three minutes of your life watching this.

Seriously, I'm not talking about the greatness of his BH in general. Clearly the shot has been doing more damage to Nadal in the last 3-4 years.

 

[KINGROGER]

"Now" Fed has a BH? You should have watched him in 2003-2007 when his BH was easily superior to anything he brought in 2017. Please spend three minutes of your life watching this.

I think AO/IW/Miami 2017 is up there with any of his best BH showings.

 

[KINGROGER]

“Here” = 1-1 vs. Nadal on the year with no slams and a masters

Since 2017 he is 6-1 vs Nadal with the 1 being on clay. A clear improvement. I think a lot of it is down to Nadal’s decline though.

 

[SaintPetros]

"Now" Fed has a BH? You should have watched him in 2003-2007 when his BH was easily superior to anything he brought in 2017. Please spend three minutes of your life watching this.

Spent three years of my life watching him get run round the merry-go-round on the "predictable" assault from Nadal's forehand
2017 Fed finally manned up and did something about it

 

[SaintPetros]

Since 2017 he is 6-1 vs Nadal with the 1 being on clay. A clear improvement. I think a lot of it is down to Nadal’s decline though.

Then Fed was/is basically incapable of dealing with a high level Nadal?

 

[SaintPetros]

"Now" Fed has a BH? You should have watched him in 2003-2007 when his BH was easily superior to anything he brought in 2017. Please spend three minutes of your life watching this.

Also, Fed couldn't have prayed for a backhand as good as what he had in 2017, because it was beyond his ability to even visualize in those days.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Every time one of the other big 3 is entangled in a battle with Nadal for something significant (be it for a title, ranking, or just currently the in form opponent) Tio has something to say about the other one that poses no immediate threat and that hurts the former. One has to ask himself what would have Nadal's results been, if his uncle wasn't playing the psychological game all these years.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Hmm. I think it was more the mental reset that was more important. I don't think he was much better in 2017 than he was in the Wimbledon-Australian Open stretch of '15/'16, big difference being Djokovic.

Don't.

Federer tried to play with his new racquet after Wimbledon 2013, but couldn't adjust to it, as it needed a much larger transitional period than he anticipated, so he went back to his old frame for the rest of the year. The struggles of many a players to adapt to new frames after switching is a testament to how difficult actually is for even the pro players to start playing their current best after a switch. You "think" that, because you don't know any better, nor have you followed Federer's transition to the new frame.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Then Fed was/is basically incapable of dealing with a high level Nadal?

You are quite correct in saying that while the Nadal was declining Feddie boy was peaking all the time with every passing year.

 

[SaintPetros]

You are quite correct in saying that while the Nadal was declining Feddie boy was peaking all the time with every passing year.

Fed's words

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Fed's words

Funny that people like you listen to Fed's words only when it fits their agenda, and forget about them the moment they go against it. Also a sign of not knowing what you are talking about is when you lose your capacity to distinguish between when one trusts in himself and his actual abilities, let alone to distinguish the finer nuances of what is being said.

You either know what is up and hold the players to the same standard, or you talk out of your wrong side, because you have nothing meaningful to say.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

Fred is unbelievable when he's on so makes sense. Serving, forehand placement, variety and now the BH too.

But what about Novak Djokovic, the man who beat his nephew 28 times? 2 streaks of 7 wins in a row? Including that destruction throughout 2011? All in finals too, 3 of which Slam Finals. Or is Djokovic just too difficult to emulate...

Should add that God Mode Murray is basically unbeatable in any case.

It's almost impossible to play like djokovic or federer.
Play with your own style, hit freely to take down rafa

 

[Deleted member 763691]

Rafa has beaten Djokovic 26 times, and 9 times at slams, so definitely don't play like Djokovic

 

[Deleted member 763691]

It's almost impossible to play like djokovic or federer.
Play with your own style, hit freely to take down rafa

Dimitrov has been playing like Federer for years

 

[JackSockIsTheBest]

Speaking at a conference at the Valencia Job Fair, Toni was asked what advice he would give a player if they had come up against Rafael and while he said Federer and Novak Djokovic were better placed to give an answer, he reckoned emulating the Swiss would be the way to go.

"It would be complicated because he is a guy who always looks for solutions,” he said.

“If anything, I would tell him to play as Federer."

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/1201449/Roger-Federer-Rafael-Nadal-Uncle-Toni

Really? I would think he would support his nephew, the one & only Rafael Nadal, & his game.

 

[Krish0608]

Funny that people like you listen to Fed's words only when it fits their agenda, and forget about them the moment they go against it. Also a sign of not knowing what you are talking about is when you lose your capacity to distinguish between when one trusts in himself and his actual abilities, let alone to distinguish the finer nuances of what is being said.

You either know what is up and hold the players to the same standard, or you talk out of your wrong side, because you have nothing meaningful to say.

Hey you know about them b*tthurt Pete fans. They're still mad Federer overtook Pete. Nuff said.

 

[JackSockIsTheBest]

Dimitrov has been playing like Federer for years

hahaha yup his serve, groundstrokes, & net play are all similar but his flexibility is like djokovic's

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

Dimitrov has been playing like Federer for years

That's an insult for federer..
Copy paste like chinese manufacturers does not imply well in tennis

 

[SpinToWin]

Oh please

yes, fed was an impressive player in 2004-2007 and did many things better then than now.

But there's a good reason that Fed has struggled with Nadal ever since the latter was an incomplete article of 17. And it's largely because Fed used to struggle to counter the predictable but effective backhand assault that Nadal wielded with his serve and forehand.

If you rewatch the actual tapes, you'll easily see that the old Fedal matches used to have endless streams of this pattern

Whereas with the confidence given by the larger and more stable racquet, Fed started to do quite a bit more of this.

Oh yeah, took him a while (and probably also the new racquet with more real estate) to confidently step into the court and take the Nadal forehand on the rise on a consistent basis. For that he has noticeably changed the mechanic when playing Nadal. Not sure to what extent Ljube helped there, but it wouldn't surprise me if that feedback came from him

 

[ChrisRF]

Loving you two jokesters above.

Yeah, indeed. Normally every word from Rafa or Toni is viewed and preached by them like a gospel and an apodictical truth, but if Toni speaks positively about Federer, well then he’s obviously joking.

 

[Sudacafan]

Did Toni Nadal valuable piece of advise refer to Roland Garros performances?

 

[PeoplesChamp]

Federer shoring up his BH return against doll's spinbotting has been a really pleasant development, indeed. Rally BH was edging back to a more measured approach already in Miami '17 though. Honestly Fred's rally BH was almost good enough even back in the dais, it was the return that let him down big time against topspindal.

Yes, this has been the biggest difference in Fed's game when facing Nadal. Nadal is going to serve 8/10 to his backhand. It was always that way and Federer was at a disadvantage from the very beginning of the point almost all the time with Nadal's abnormally high serving percentage. It was always the most frustrating part of their matchup to me. Those days are over now. Fed stands his ground and comes over the top with a decent return eliminating what used to be so many free points for Nadal.

 

[yokied]

Ljube is overrated. I'm not sure how, but Fed finally received my transmissions after 15 years of yelling at my TV for him to step in and hit the ****ing BH.

 

[PeoplesChamp]

That's an insult for federer..
Copy paste like chinese manufacturers does not imply well in tennis

It's pretty obvious what Toni means here. Be aggressive. Of course no one else can play like Federer.