Federer have won slams on Grass, Rebound Ace, plexicushion, DecoTurf, and Clay.Federer doesn't have a better slam/surface diversity. Sorry!
Federer have won slams on Grass, Rebound Ace, plexicushion, DecoTurf, and Clay.Federer doesn't have a better slam/surface diversity. Sorry!
Indoor is not only a condition it's an unnatural condition that goes against the essence of our sport and our planet.
Federer have won slams on Grass, Rebound Ace, plexicushion, DecoTurf, and Clay.
10 hardcourt, 8 grass, 1 clay
10 clay, 4 hardcourt, 2 grass
He's had a couple of decent results indoor but they fit a rank and file top 10 guy like Berdych not an ATG and certainly not overall GOAT. In 10+ years on tour to have that few tournament wins indoor is actually pretty shocking tbh.
I'll grant you that indoors is a condition as you say not a surface, but its an important one and the WTF is the 5th most important tournament of the year.
As much as Nadal fans run and hide from it the WTF is a Grand Canyon sized hole in Rafa's resume and all the RG titles you stack up cant hide it.
Try to be more accurate rather than being deceptive.
Federer
Grass - 8
Rebound Ace - 3
Plexicushion - 2
DecoTurf - 5
Clay - 1
Nadal
Grass - 2
Rebound Ace - 0
Plexicushion - 1
DecoTurf - 3
Clay - 10
Impossible. Only four in one year.Nadal will have 19 titles within the next 2 years.
to be fair, Nadal's SD is lower if you go by surface but it's a bit disingenuous to consider AO and USO as one surface considering how differently they at least used to play.All of us are really embarrassing ourselves here.
Do all of you realize that this question of better slam spread is not a subjective opinion? There is a simple statistical measure called standard deviation to find out which spread of data is more uniform in distribution. A lower value of S.D. indicates a tighter distribution around the mean, while higher S.D. values indicate large variation in the data points.
This is basic high school math. Come on, people.
Fed's data set of 8,5,5,1 has a S.D. value of 2.487468.
Rafa's data set of 10,3,2,1 has a S.D. value of 3.5355.
Fed's slam wins spread is more uniform than Rafa's by a significant margin.
Next question.
... set by someone else, when you are 31.
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Even the spanish-writing media think that the Nadal has no brain of his own.
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"I don't read books" -Roger Federer, contemporary philosopher.
Few years ago, Nadal's target was to win 17 slams to catch Roger. Today, the target is 19.
In a few more years, the target could be at 21.
All of us are really embarrassing ourselves here.
Do all of you realize that this question of better slam spread is not a subjective opinion ..simple statisticalmeasure called standard deviation to find out ......
..... data points. ? is a
This is basic high school math. Come on, people.
Fed's data set of 8,5,5,1 has a S.D. value of 2.487468.
RNext question.![]()
Federer doesn't have a better slam/surface diversity. Sorry!
Rafa was very much in his prime since 2005. Gonzalez and Hewitt were too good for him on Rebound Ace. Blake, Youzny, Ferrer too good for him on Decoturf.Nadal wasn't winning any slams outside of RG pre-2007 as he was not in his full prime yet so that rebound ace stat is irrelevant to him. In tennis there are 3 surfaces: clay, grass and hardcourt. Stop being butthurt, nobody said that Nadal won on decoturf last week except you, they said hardcourt![]()
Interesting goalpost shift. He's gone from being coompletely "helpless" indoors to being a top 10 player indoors. Okay...
It's just a condition, and it's never been held as a criteria for GOAT, aside from desperate Federer fans who see the slam record falling to Nadal, and want to give more importance to everything else Fed has done.
It's just making up nonsense. Olympic Singles Gold has been an important target for champions for many years now. THe fact that it's called the Golden Slam (4 Grand Slams + Olympic Singles gold) is an argument that Olympic singles is actually the most important tournament outside the slams in terms of legacy. Nadal has it. Fed desperately wanted it, but never will. Hole in his resume. Federer can't be GOAT without Olympic singles gold.
I'm not stupid enough to really claim that, but i do believe if Roger had Olympic Singles Gold and Rafa didn't, Federer fans would be touting that as a big "hole" in Rafa's resume.
At the end of the day it's about the slams, baby. Not WTF's or Masters (where Nadal holds the record) or even Olympics. The slams is the number every single casual fan will remember when GOAT is talked about.
It's just making up nonsense. Olympic Singles Gold has been an important target for champions for many years now. THe fact that it's called the Golden Slam (4 Grand Slams + Olympic Singles gold) is an argument that Olympic singles is actually the most important tournament outside the slams in terms of legacy. Nadal has it. Fed desperately wanted it, but never will. Hole in his resume. Federer can't be GOAT without Olympic singles gold.
I'm not stupid enough to really claim that, but i do believe if Roger had Olympic Singles Gold and Rafa didn't, Federer fans would be touting that as a big "hole" in Rafa's resume.
At the end of the day it's about the slams, baby. Not WTF's or Masters (where Nadal holds the record) or even Olympics. The slams is the number every single casual fan will remember when GOAT is talked about.
Federer doesn't have a better slam/surface diversity. Sorry!
to be fair, Nadal's SD is lower if you go by surface but it's a bit disingenuous to consider AO and USO as one surface considering how differently they at least used to play.
Establishing once and for all that ""MY favorite MALE tennis idol is better than YOUR favorite MALE tennis idol" should be child's play: . just throw out a couple of applied math foundations along with some linear equations, exponents, polynomials, logarithms ...what have you ....in addition to a lot of sundry quadratic bullshlt. . wowwee..
Again, mere child's play - why in heaven's name are we continuing to embarrass ourselves here?
good thread: . * 4 honks
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Imagine if all those non-clay slams were played on clay instead. He could aim for 100 slams by the end of his career.Not really. This US Open win killed that argument forever. 6 non-clay slams is all-time great level (Becker, Edberg). If he wins nothing but RG from now, it won't hurt his overall GOAT candidacy, because he has an all-time greats level of non-clay slams. But I expect he'll win Australia or US again at least once.
Yeah / I think this has merit.No one with a straight face can call him a GOAT when Fed is comfortably ahead than him at 4 of the 5 big events in tennis.
He can win 25 RG . It doesn't make any difference
This is an exercise in being deliberately obtuse.
If we are talking about even spread of slams, there's just a very simple, universally recognized method to do it, and that's what i demonstrated. I didn't say Fed was better or worse than Rafa because of it, just that he has a more even spread of Slams across surfaces.
I cannot believe there are educated people who say things like what you just did. Please read before commenting.
If it makes you sleep better at night to keep telling yourself that, knock yourself out.
In the real world, it's not going to work like that unfortunately. People will be calling Nadal GOAT from when he gets within 1 or 2 of Federer, never mind tying or passing him.
At some point, racking up titles at just one slam is going to be subject to the law of diminishing returns.
I think ten titles at one slam (especially when you only average two each at the other three slams) is probably where we can draw that line, if it hasn't been passed already.
Not saying thirteen RG titles isn't impressive (Jesus Christ that would be monstrous), but as other posters have pointed out, tennis is played on three surfaces, not one. Fed may only have one RG title, but he sure is closer to overall GOAT considering all three surfaces than Rafa is.
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This forum is a representation of the real world. Make a poll and ask if people would take Nadal as the GOAT at 19 majors
get off your (lecturing) high horse and ......and maybe learn to take a harmless joke while you're at it
LOL!
This forum is nowhere near representative of the real world. It's full of hardcore fans with their own biases and agendas. You'd probably have to poll a non-tennis site with casual fans. Tell them the H2H (23-14) and have them on the same number of majors, I'm guessing most casual fans will say Nadal is GOAT.
Nope. 6 majors of clay automatically puts him as a hall of gamer. Equal to Becker and edberg.Piling on even more RG titles will only reinforce his claim to CGOAT…not overall GOAT.
He did say it. His exact words were:
"Vamos a llegar a los 19 Grand Slams de Federer. Confío en ganar algún Roland Garros más y algún otro caerá".
Which translates as:
"We'll reach Federer's 19 Grand Slams (titles). I'm confident in winning another Roland Garros and others will fall (in Spanish this could also mean 'others will come', but it's open to different interpretations)"
Not really. The fact that Rafa is completely helpless indoor kills his chance at GOAT. No one can be considered overall GOAT when you are that bad on one surface.
Shoveling on more and more clay can't hide it.
rafa would never say it, toni though i could see him saying something similar.
What I find interesting is that Toni brought up matching the Federer 19 Majors, as well as Moya in another interview saying they need to correct the latest head2head results with Federer. So it's obviously something on the mind of the Nadal camp. It's not a bad thing, but I just chuckle when I hear the athletes mouth these platitudes that they don't consider such things. Of course they are more than aware of all these stats and records...
So you want a poll to be done with ignorant folks rather than nerds of the sport ? What logic is that ?
What's the logic of claiming a site full of sport nerds is representative of the "real world"? It isn't.
In the real word, casual fans matter. Once they believe something, it becomes real. That's why sports journalists work so hard to appeal to them, to tell them this guy or that guy is GOAT.
What's the logic of claiming a site full of sport nerds is representative of the "real world"? It isn't.
In the real word, casual fans matter. Once they believe something, it becomes real. That's why sports journalists work so hard to appeal to them, to tell them this guy or that guy is GOAT.
Logic of taking a poll here is to get representation of what real tennis fans and nerds all over the world think about who the GOAT is rather than some ignorant folks who tunes in occasionally during set 5 of one match or who sees Wikipedia to know who got more wins. This forum also has few players who play at a decent level, coaches and historians . Their view is more relevant than some ignoramus
But bias is an issue with hardcores. if there are more hardcore Federer fans on this site, than hardcore Nadal or Djokovic fans, then Federer is often likely to win a poll here. it's long been claimed that this site is owned by backers of Federer as well.
You ain't gonna get a fair and unbiased poll on a site like this.
All of us are really embarrassing ourselves here.
Do all of you realize that this question of better slam spread is not a subjective opinion? There is a simple statistical measure called standard deviation to find out which spread of data is more uniform in distribution. A lower value of S.D. indicates a tighter distribution around the mean, while higher S.D. values indicate large variation in the data points.
This is basic high school math. Come on, people.
Fed's data set of 8,5,5,1 has a S.D. value of 2.487468.
Rafa's data set of 10,3,2,1 has a S.D. value of 3.5355.
Fed's slam wins spread is more uniform than Rafa's by a significant margin.
Next question.
This is a myth propagated by Fed haters that the forum is Fed biased
Lol no.
It is as biased as the general population outside of the forum.
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Hola!
Nadal getting a clean sweep at the French this year really clouded things for people. I don't think he'll win more than 1. 2 more years of development for Zverev and Thiem should be enough especially if he got both guys in his draw.
The hard path would be something like Novak in quarters, Zverev in semi and Thiem in final I wouldn't bet on Nadal in that case.