Toni Nadal reacts to Federer's victory

[tenisdecente]

He had that run at the US Open where he changed his serve and was serving much bigger. There was a Sky Pad interview with Rafa post a WTF match where he says that he only served fast at the US Open for that one run and that he purposely has slowed down his serve for his game though I suspect the real reason was maybe an injury. Perhaps you can view Sky Pad interviews in europe, I can't in the states with one of the ones with Barry Cowan

Also here's a clip Rafa trying to change his serve.

I remember that, he was serving really big in that USO, flat and around 130mph. But what I meant is a solid improvement, meaning that he keeps a good serve for the rest of his career, like the improvement in his net abilities (his smash is GOAT BTW). He had seasons when his serve was really top 100 material. I am not sure if he can improve from now on, but who knows, if a guy can do something like that it is him

 

[fedtennisphan]

Actually he's changed his serve a few times and greatly improved his volleys to mastery over the years.

That’s why he can’t get free points on serve and hardly comes to the net except to shake hands.

 

[heninfan99]

I remember that, he was serving really big in that USO, flat and around 130mph. But what I meant is a solid improvement, meaning that he keeps a good serve for the rest of his career, like the improvement in his net abilities (his smash is GOAT BTW). He had seasons when his serve was really top 100 material. I am not sure if he can improve from now on, but who knows, if a guy can do something like that it is him

True. No long lasting impact that makes winning easier for him. Well, at least all his doubles play paid off on his volleys.

 

[heninfan99]

That’s why he can’t get free points on serve and hardly comes to the net except to shake hands.

Luckily he's a a kind person and shook Fed's hand 23 times after beating him. Nice to have a winning record over the Cryerer.

 

[JoshuaPim]

Luckily he's a a kind person and shook Fed's hand 23 times after beating him. Nice to have a winning record over the Cryerer.

Nah, it's 13-10 to Fed actually. That rubbish on dirt doesn't count.

 

[Pheasant]

I am curious to find out who now has the best 5th set win loss record

Your question caused me to look up 5 set records of various players. I'm not sure who has the best record. But here's a list of various players' records in 5-setters.

Djokovic 28-9, .757
Nishikori 16-6, .727
Berdych 21-8, .724
G. Muller, 15-7, .682
Murray 23-11, 676 is 0-4 since starting out 23-7
Cilic 27-13, .675
Nadal 19-11, .633, is 4-8 since his 15-3 start
Ferrer 22-13, .629
Federer 30-20, .600, has won his last 6 straight 5-setters
Wawrinka 26-20, .565

Federer for the longest time was known as an underachiever in 5-setters. However, he now has a respectable record after winning 6 consecutive 5-set matches.


Djokovic is the king of 5-setters.

 

[heninfan99]

Nah, it's 13-10 to Fed actually. That rubbish on dirt doesn't count.

lol

 

[donquijote]

“Today, as Roger has moved away a little more from him, ..

“I believe that his tennis is more relentless today, although the points also seem less colourful to me as the epic longer and more disputed exchanges get lost along the way.

less colorful ROFLOLMAO

 

[coupergear]

Sometimes I hang out in the tennis tips and instruction forum. Even at the recreational level, people always struggle with the same issue. It goes something like this "If I make a big change to my game, I know my game is going to suffer in the short-term...can I trust I will get back to my baseline and then start improving and reaping the rewards?

This can be hard call for a junkballer who plays solid 3.5 tennis with unconventional strokes. Nevermind a multiple major winner on the pro tour.

Federer has the talent to experiment and tweak his game with very little repercussions, where Nadal does not. Djokovic himself said it straight out at one point--Federer just has more talent than the rest of us.

This means Federer can do things like take more breaks between competing, practice less often, experiment with new rackets or different tactics, yet not significantly drop his level.

 

[Mike Sams]

If Federer wins Wimbledon and US Open this year, it's game over for Nadal in terms of ever surpassing Federer's Slam count.
Nadal is about to hit 32. And he's been extremely lucky in his last 2 Slams where he didn't face a single top 10 player other than Marin Cilic. And we saw what happened there as Nadal was forced to fight for his life and couldn't hang. I would imagine strong young players are now breaking through and it will only get tougher. Nadal still has clay though. If his health and his legs keep up, he can get another French, possibly 2 with good fortune. Everything else is up in the air.
He hasn't had much luck defending titles off clay. So it's going to be a big test for him to win US Open this year and likely he won't be seeded #1 and he may not get such a weak draw as last time.

 

[coupergear]

Speaking of h2h it's really interesting kind of looking at the stats how federer has beaten nadal 5 times in a row and then nadal got the better of fed 5 times in a row before that. I guess it has been more than few years where one has not completely dominated the other. Obviously overall we know who the match up/h2h favors but it looking at the last few years it is interesting how much of an,extreme it has been on both sides

Pundits predicted years ago that Nadal would decline quicker based on his violent style of play. This chart seems to show this...Rafa success greater in his younger years but slowing mid career...Roger more success mid and later years.

https://scroll.in/field/843310/thes...remarkable-nature-of-roger-federers-longevity

 

[Nadalgaenger]

This is an interesting quote, since Nadal basically plays the same tennis as when he was 17 years old. Where is the evolution in the serve or in the aggresion to win with less effort? You wonder how he says this and cannot see his nephem is stagnant in his own game, even if course it still enough to defeat most of the competition

The Nadal serve is significantly better than when he was 17. There is no way that 17-yr-old Nadal could have won a slam on grass or HC.

 

[tenisdecente]

The Nadal serve is significantly better than when he was 17. There is no way that 17-yr-old Nadal could have won a slam on grass or HC.

I dont think so. Improved yes, but significantly definitely not. And of course he has the advantage of being lefty, otherwise his serve it would be even more punishable

 

[Nadalgaenger]

I dont think so. Improved yes, but significantly definitely not. And of course he has the advantage of being lefty, otherwise his serve it would be even more punishable

Nadal’s ace count has never been high but he uses it effectively, when he’s playing well that as, to set up points and dictate play with his FH.

When his serve is on, Nadal is very tough to handle. When it falters, he is vulnerable, especially against guys like Djokovic that can attack his weak second serve.

 

[Apun94]

This proves that it is Nadal's obsession to have the Major record.

It is both Fed and Nadal's obsession to have the Major record

 

[Tennisanity]

It is both Fed and Nadal's obsession to have the Major record

Fed already has it, thanks.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

It is both Fed and Nadal's obsession to have the Major record

Can we blame Nadal for wanting the record?

At this point, it SEEMS out of reach, but you never know with these guys. Who saw Fed or Nadal winning more slams after 2015?

 

[tenisdecente]

Nadal’s ace count has never been high but he uses it effectively, when he’s playing well that as, to set up points and dictate play with his FH.

When his serve is on, Nadal is very tough to handle. When it falters, he is vulnerable, especially against guys like Djokovic that can attack his weak second serve.

I am not talking about aces, serve has a lot of variables.
He is tough to handle sometimes because is hard to handle a lefty, that was my point. His serve, bar that USO mentioned, always have been barely decent

 

[fedtennisphan]

It is both Fed and Nadal's obsession to have the Major record

No, it’s Nadal obsession to be mentioned with Federer. The sooner that Federer distance himself the better.

 

[heninfan99]

I am not talking about aces, serve has a lot of variables.
He is tough to handle sometimes because is hard to handle a lefty, that was my point. His serve, bar that USO mentioned, always have been barely decent

Yep but do you think "you're only as good as your 2nd serve"? Nadal is often #1 for % 2nd Serve Points Won

Obviously he backs it up with long rallies that kill the other person over time. These days he's older but it's an effective 2nd serve style the numbers show. Barely decent is a bit too far.

 

[tenisdecente]

Yep but do you think "you're only as good as your 2nd serve"? Nadal is often #1 for % 2nd Serve Points Won

Obviously he backs it up with long rallies that kill the other person over time. These days he's older but it's an effective 2nd serve style the numbers show.

Come on, be serious. Nadal wins a hell lot of second serve points because he is one of the best baseliners in the history of this sport, not because he has a Kyrgios/Isner second serve. You know that

 

[heninfan99]

Come on, be serious. Nadal wins a hell lot of second serve points because he is one of the best baseliners in the history of this sport, not because he has a Kyrgios/Isner second serve. You know that

I have to disagree. 2nd serves are pressure points. The guys you list will choke. How often does Nadal double fault or mangle a 2nd serve? If you're only as good as your 2nd serve Nadal is up there. That spin serve out wide that he can count on is no joke to deal with I'm sure. That serve started points at a huge advantage against Fed for almost a decade.

But if you're correct that Nadal's is barely decent than what must you think of Murray's 2nd serve???

 

[Apun94]

Fed already has it, thanks.

That's the thing. For now. You never know. Both want it. It's very obvious

 

[tenisdecente]

I have to disagree. 2nd serves are pressure points. The guys you list will choke. How often does Nadal double fault or mangle a 2nd serve? If you're only as good as your 2nd serve Nadal is up there. That spin serve out wide that he can count on is no joke to deal with I'm sure. That serve started points at a huge advantage against Fed for almost a decade.

But if you're correct that Nadal's is barely decent than what must you think of Murray's 2nd serve???

Well, Murray's 2nd serve as a benchmark is not exactly a good comparison. It stinks even worse than Nadal's one.
But Nadal also feel the pressure. In the past he usually did not commit double faults, but lately he is prone to get tight and thefore to encounter himself making more DF's than in the past
I remember that 4th set in W08 when he made that rare DF against Fed. And lately it is more a common event seeing him double faulting
And I am not talking about choking in serve, in fact I consider Kyrgios decently clutch with his serve. Problem of the two guys I mentioned is that his ROS is something that does not exist

 

[Apun94]

No, it’s Nadal obsession to be mentioned with Federer. The sooner that Federer distance himself the better.

Lol you dont think Fed wants the Slam Record only for himself?

 

[Tennisanity]

That's the thing. For now. You never know. Both want it. It's very obvious

Fed already has it.

 

[Apun94]

Can we blame Nadal for wanting the record?

At this point, it SEEMS out of reach, but you never know with these guys. Who saw Fed or Nadal winning more slams after 2015?

I am pretty sure, for both the players, at moment since they are both winning slams, the biggest motivation for training hard every day and playing in that extra tournament is the Major record and No.1 ranking, no matter how much they say that they still play only "for the love of the game"

 

[heninfan99]

Well, Murray's 2nd serve as a benchmark is not exactly a good comparison. It stinks even worse than Nadal's one.
But Nadal also feel the pressure. In the past he usually did not commit double faults, but lately he is prone to get tight and thefore to encounter himself making more DF's than in the past
I remember that 4th set in W08 when he made that rare DF against Fed. And lately it is more a common event seeing him double faulting
And I am not talking about choking in serve, in fact I consider Kyrgios decently clutch with his serve. Problem of the two guys I mentioned is that his ROS is something that does not exist

Okay. I'm just curious, what are you parameters for a great 2nd serve?

 

[tenisdecente]

Okay. I'm just curious, what are you parameters for a great 2nd serve?

Decent speed, good placement and avoid DF's. It is not rocket science to have a decent second serve right?

 

[Nostradamus]

“Each victory of Federer complicates things more for my nephew but, if the injuries steer clear, I hope I won’t see him abandon the fight mentally or accept things as they are.”

“Today, as Roger has moved away a little more from him, I share with many people the great value of this man and the magnitude of his achievements, but also today more than ever Rafael should want to fight to overcome his current setback and find the necessary conviction in his own passion.”

“When Roger Federer understood that he had to evolve the concepts of his game, he did and waited.”

“Good example of intelligence, patience and commitment.

“I believe that his tennis is more relentless today, although the points also seem less colourful to me as the epic longer and more disputed exchanges get lost along the way.

“Only a character subjected precisely to something as irrational as excessive passion and obsession for what one does is able to withstand what such a long and fruitful career involves.”


https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/912632/Rafael-Nadal-message-Roger-Federer-rivalry-uncle-Toni

did he say all this in Spanish ?? WOOW what a philosopher he is.

Also what he is really saying is,,,if my nephew plays Federer on Clay this year,,, he will kick his butt

 

[heninfan99]

Decent speed, good placement and avoid DF's. It is not rocket science to have a decent second serve right?

It's a little trickier to dig up stats on placement though they post a visual on tv sometimes.
Those are good parameters but I'd add spin/action. Nadal excels at two of your three.

I suppose Isner could kick it over one's head rather easily.

 

[tenisdecente]

It's a little trickier to dig up stats on placement though they post a visual on tv sometimes.
Those are good parameters, Nadal excels at two of the three.

I respectly dont agree about the DFs in the latest stages of his career. Placement, I can give you that, specially in the AD side
Still, his serve is barely good as I said. He does not win free points as an elite player, even if he holds mostly easy, but as I said it is not because of his serve but because his elite baseline game

 

[heninfan99]

I respectly dont agree about the DFs in the latest stages of his career. Placement, I can give you that, specially in the AD side
Still, his serve is barely good as I said. He does not win free points as an elite player, even if he holds mostly easy, but as I said it is not because of his serve but because his elite baseline game

His serve is not about aces it's a setup shot so in the context of his game it's great. Obviously we disagree but no one is winning 16 slams with a barely decent serve or however you phrased it. That's a bit too far.

I admit Goran/Kyrgios can really crush it on the 2nd but Nadal's 2nd is more effective than 90% of the ATP.

 

[tenisdecente]

His serve is not about aces it's a setup shot so in the context of his game it's great. Obviously we disagree but no one is winning 16 slams with a barely decent serve or however you phrased it. That's a bit too far.

I admit Goran/Kyrious can really crush it on the 2nd but Nadal's 2nd is more effective than 90% of the ATP.

Respectly disagree, specially in the last part
And lets talk sense here - RG doesnt require an elite serve to be won. Ask Gaston Gaudio for example, far from an elite server

 

[BHud]

No Nadal fan here, but my God...when you compare Fedal to the field, NOBODY has the passion and fight that they do...and over such a long time period. New Gen and Next Gen are pathetic compared to these two. Too bad DJesus is all love & peace now...he at least could have been in the discussion. Murray is just not as accomplished to be mentioned.

 

[heninfan99]

Respectly disagree, specially in the last part
And lets talk sense here - RG doesnt require an elite serve to be won. Ask Gaston Gaudio for example, far from an elite server

Well Rafa has won everywhere including grass and hard.

 

[tenisdecente]

Well Rafa has won everywhere including grass and hard.

I know but his success outside clay was backed up serving decently in those Slams. At RG, he barely needs it

 

[heninfan99]

Nadal is also in a 3 way tie for #1 fewest double faults for the ATP per match averaging 1.5. Kyrgios is #59.

Yep but do you think "you're only as good as your 2nd serve"? Nadal is often #1 for % 2nd Serve Points Won

Obviously he backs it up with long rallies that kill the other person over time. These days he's older but it's an effective 2nd serve style the numbers show. Barely decent is a bit too far.

 

[nikdom]

Lol you dont think Fed wants the Slam Record only for himself?

No he was going to share it with poor African kids.

 

[tenisdecente]

Nadal is also in a 3 way tie for #1 fewest double faults for the ATP per match averaging 1.5. Kyrgios is #59.

Kyrgios gambles a lot with his second serve. Come on, dont need to state the obvious

 

[heninfan99]

Kyrgios gambles a lot with his second serve. Come on, dont need to state the obvious

And that's stupid that he does that most of the time. Speed is overrated on the serve.

 

[nikdom]

@heninfan99 why did she retire?

 

[tenisdecente]

And that's stupid that he does that most of the time. Speed is overrated on the serve.

That's debatable. He does not only gamble in speed but trying to go for the lines. Still, he is not easy to break so...

 

[Slightly D1]

This proves that it is Nadal's obsession to have the Major record.

Woah a competitive athlete wants to set a major record in his sport? UNTHINKABLE!!!

 

[The_Order]

Yeah I don't see Federer winning the USO either, I think it's too late in the year for him - I simply don't think he'll fresh enough to contend there going forward. If they keep the AO fast then Federer can probably be a darkhouse at least for a couple of years IMO and he'll forever be some sort of threat at Wimbledon. But realistically time has to be running out for him as far as competing for the top titles.

Nadal looked decent on grass last year, but as he's getting older I think he'll need something of a break after clay to be fully fit for the US HC's. Barring injury I think it will be 2019 before anyone can stop him at the FO.

Yeah not quite seeing Nadal going far at WIM unless he gets a bunch of clay courters in the first 4 rounds and easy finals opponents.

Fed will still be the fav this year but he'll be under more pressure this year too and at his age if he gets a tough draw it would be quite the task.

 

[heninfan99]

@heninfan99 why did she retire?

Which time?

 

[Soul_Evisceration]

Your question caused me to look up 5 set records of various players. I'm not sure who has the best record. But here's a list of various players' records in 5-setters.

Djokovic 28-9, .757
Nishikori 16-6, .727
Berdych 21-8, .724
G. Muller, 15-7, .682
Murray 23-11, 676 is 0-4 since starting out 23-7
Cilic 27-13, .675
Nadal 19-11, .633, is 4-8 since his 15-3 start
Ferrer 22-13, .629
Federer 30-20, .600, has won his last 6 straight 5-setters
Wawrinka 26-20, .565

Federer for the longest time was known as an underachiever in 5-setters. However, he now has a respectable record after winning 6 consecutive 5-set matches.


Djokovic is the king of 5-setters.

So Federer played the most 5 setters, Djokovic being king of 5 setters is not a surprise to me.

I am amazed to see Berdych so high on the list and Nadal being all the way down since the vag brigade declared him as "unstoppable" in 5 sets.

Very interesting list. Thanks for the info @Pheasant

 

[Keystoner]

He will be, that is for sure. His year revolves around Wimbledon and I think he knows, if he wins that, regards of whether Nadal wins RG this year or not, the race is effectively over. I simply cannot see Nadal getting 22 slams from this point on.

Do you see him getting 21? Wouldn't at least tying make the GOAT argument all the more interesting and make the H2H all the more relevant?

 

[JMR]

Do you see him getting 21? Wouldn't at least tying make the GOAT argument all the more interesting and make the H2H all the more relevant?

If the slam count were tied, why wouldn't things like slam finals, YEC titles, weeks/years at No. 1, or any other field-based achievements be the appropriate tiebreakers? (That's assuming that attempting to break the tie would be more sensible than simply acknowledging two greats of roughly equal stature.)

 

[nikdom]

Which time?

The last time. I thought she was doing fine. Remember something about her being inspired by Federer's FO win to come back.

Anywho, miss Henin's game. Ever since she retired, the women's game has been unwatchable.

Henin v Serena matches used to be awesome.