Toni said yesterday, "Fed is the best ever, but it's more difficult to play against Djokovic"

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Federer is the best but Djokovic tougher for Nadal, says uncle Toni


Roger Federer is the best tennis player of the current generation but reigning world number one Novak Djokovic remains the most difficult opponent in Rafa Nadal's career, the Spaniard's uncle and former coach Toni Nadal has said.

The "GOAT" (Greatest of all Time) debate in men's tennis has divided opinion for a decade and remains a hot topic as the trio continue to dominate, having won the last 13 majors. Federer, who will be 39 in August, is nearing the end of a glittering career and leads the race on 20 Grand Slam singles titles, with Spaniard Nadal close on his heels with 19. Djokovic is three behind the Swiss with 17 majors and is a year younger than Nadal, who turns 34 next month.

"For me, Federer is a wonderful player. I like to watch Roger Federer a lot," Toni told Eurosport's Players' Cut programme, which features Nadal this week.

"If I wasn't the uncle nor the coach of Rafael, I would want Federer to win all the matches. But at the end, I like how he plays, because he's very elegant but he's very effective too. I know Federer is the best ever with I don't know who; maybe Rod Laver or maybe Rafael, he's not too far (behind). But at the moment Federer is the best."

Djokovic looked unstoppable this season before the novel coronavirus pandemic brought the tennis circuit to a halt in early March. The Serb has a slight edge on world number two Nadal, having won 29 of their 55 career meetings so far.

"For us it was always more difficult to play against Djokovic," Toni said. "Because it's not about who of them is better. For us, when we play against Federer, we have a way to beat him. In my mind, before going on court, I know what we have to do.
When we play against Djokovic, many times we didn't know exactly what we had to do. This is more difficult, for me. I prefer to play against Federer."

https://sports.yahoo.com/federer-best-djokovic-tougher-nadal-130548945.html
 
Toni pretty much lays out the value of match-ups. Nadal is simply a more difficult match-up for Federer than he is for Djokovic. No shame in admitting that. If Djokovic was raised to play with a one-hander, this discussion wouldn't even take place.

Fed was simply unlucky to have his worst match-up turn out to be an ATG himself, which is unique in tennis history. Djokovic's worst match-up, Stan, did not turn out to be an ATG.

So Nadal would tell you it is easier to play Federer, while someone like Stan would tell you it is easier to play Djokovic.
 
This is old news.

Is Nuncle napping again? :unsure:

Must be awake in order to plug the hole of the past 6+ years. Nadal's absorbed 7 L's at the hands of Federer in that time frame. :oops:
 
FedFosterWallace said:
This is old news.

Is Nuncle napping again? :unsure:

Must be awake in order to plug the hole of the past 6+ years. Nadal's absorbed 7 L's at the hands of Federer in that time frame. :oops:
Click to expand...

I doubt Toni is foolish enough to have any delusions about Nadal’s level the last few years. He’s not the same player he once was and anything he wins is gravy considering two people are clearly better than him. But at his peak Nadal could handle Roger and struggled with Djokovic
 
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Toni has been consistent with one thing since 2005, he likes and respects Federer's game a lot.

And one thing that he never misses while describing his game is to add "effective" to "beautiful"


I remember him once being asked whose game he thought was aesthetically best, he of course mentioned Federer but called his beautiful game deceptive and said something along the lines of how it makes people overlook it's lethality.




As for his opinion on GOAT or BOAT , I don't for a second believe that Rafael or Rafael's team doesn't believe he is the GOAT/BOAT.Just like Djokovic Entourage or Federer's team does.

Tony is downplaying Rafael.


As for Djokovic, Toni has seen it first hand how difficult it was for team Rafael to come up with a plan. Djokovic for me, is the most complete player of 2000s tennis. No wonder it's hard to make a plan against him.
 
ForehandCross said:
Toni has been consistent with one thing since 2005, he likes and respects Federer's game a lot.

And one thing that he never misses while describing his game is to add "effective" to "beautiful"


I remember him once being asked whose game he thought was aesthetically best, he of course mentioned Federer but called his beautiful game deceptive and said something along the lines of how it makes people overlook it's lethality.




As for his opinion on GOAT or BOAT , I don't for a second believe that Rafael or Rafael's team doesn't believe he is the GOAT/BOAT.Just like Djokovic Entourage or Federer's team does.

Tony is downplaying Rafael.


As for Djokovic, Toni has seen it first hand how difficult it was for team Rafael to come up with a plan. Djokovic for me, is the most complete player of 2000s tennis. No wonder it's hard to make a plan against him.
Click to expand...
It's harder to make a plan for someone like Nadal who can't hit Djokovic off the court like Wawrinka and can't trouble Novak with his variety and serving like Federer can.
 
It seems Tony chose his fav player instead of the best.
Anyway Its a match up thing too.
Federer and Djokovic are both very even.
And Djokovic has a lot of problems with Wawrinka in Hard Courts Slams and Roger doesnt
Nadal_Django said:
"Federer is the best ever, but his game has a hole, so we prefer to play against him"- classic Uncle Toni.:D
Click to expand...
 
ForehandCross said:
Toni has been consistent with one thing since 2005, he likes and respects Federer's game a lot.

And one thing that he never misses while describing his game is to add "effective" to "beautiful"


I remember him once being asked whose game he thought was aesthetically best, he of course mentioned Federer but called his beautiful game deceptive and said something along the lines of how it makes people overlook it's lethality.




As for his opinion on GOAT or BOAT , I don't for a second believe that Rafael or Rafael's team doesn't believe he is the GOAT/BOAT.Just like Djokovic Entourage or Federer's team does.

Tony is downplaying Rafael.


As for Djokovic, Toni has seen it first hand how difficult it was for team Rafael to come up with a plan. Djokovic for me, is the most complete player of 2000s tennis. No wonder it's hard to make a plan against him.
Click to expand...

Toni saw Djokovic coming a mile away, as far back as 2005. He told Nadal we have a problem. So yes, he was always preparing for Nadal to take over tennis completely and was scouting potential threats, and is notorious for downplaying Nadal in public statements. But yes, every team thinks their guy is the best. The only one upfront enough to confirm it is Djokovic, since he said they already think he's the GOAT. Lol
 
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bhpower said:
It seems Tony chose his fav player instead of the best.
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Nothing wrong in choosing Federer at this point. Djokovic handling Nadal better doesn't make him the best since it's a match-up thing here. Djokovic is not a one-hander for starters.
 
ForehandCross said:
As for Djokovic, Toni has seen it first hand how difficult it was for team Rafael to come up with a plan. Djokovic for me, is the most complete player of 2000s tennis. No wonder it's hard to make a plan against him.
Click to expand...

Well, Nadal’s game in particular feeds into all of Djokovic’s strengths, from the mediocre serve to the high bouncing shots to the post 09 vulnerability defending the backhand. Djokovic spoke about this as early as Cincy 08, that he felt comfortable with Nadal’s style of play compared to Murray who he lost to in the final.

Djokovic also has the luxury though of being the youngest of the contemporary great players (Federer, Nadal, Murray, Stan) with no one even remotely great to follow him. Delpo if he didn’t get injured early on I guess. He didn’t overtake the H2H against Federer until the latter was into his 30s, and won 10/17 of his slams and really tilted his H2H with Fedal from 2015 on after his primary comp declined (Federer 2013, Murray 2013 back surgery), Nadal early 2014.

I see the big 3 as very close in level peak for peak, and think the “undisputed Djokovic BOAT” arguments suffer from some recency bias. He was already 28 when he started his real assault on the record books, that doesn’t happen without a weak younger generation
 
Toni is stating what we all know but but don't necessarily realize. That Fed's greatness goes beyond just his accomplishments. There is his style of play, his persona, his role as the aging star fighting against father time. These are reasons why the majority of fans love cheering for him. Djokovic just has his accomplishments. I think he was arguably more appealing to root for in his younger days when he was the underdog against Roger and Rafa. But as the favorite, it's hard to cheer for a guy who wins with such ruthless consistency and superhuman movement. It's much easier to cheer for all-court, attacking tennis (with superb touch shots) from an aging star (Roger) or relentless fight and perseverance from another aging star (Rafa), than for a fit-as-a-fiddle, skinny but stretchy like Gumby, player who bounces the ball a lot, and slips and slides all over the back court.
 
I didnt say its bad.
I consider Federer game more appealing for the eyes but I like djokovic more..
mike danny said:
Nothing wrong in choosing Federer at this point. Djokovic handling Nadal better doesn't make him the best since it's a match-up thing here. Djokovic is not a one-hander for starters.
Click to expand...
 
Federer has had negative h2h against every Big4 member at some point. He seems to have match up problems with all the players who are very good at the game.
 
Lew II said:
Federer has had negative h2h against every Big4 member at some point. He seems to have match up problems with all the players who are very good at the game.
Click to expand...
That’s because Rafa has tailored his game to beat Federer. Djokovic has done the same w Fedal.
Federer never had that advantage. Djokodal would never be the players they are today if it wasn’t for Federer. Federer was leading and the man to beat.
 
Since 2017, Djokovic is 3-4 vs the best player from the 2 generations after him (Thiem), who is a pale shadow of the peak big 4 in quality. Even including Thiem’s younger years, they’re 2-2 in slams, with Thiem winning their next most important match (2019 ATP Finals). Food for thought
 
@TheGhostOfAgassi

Grand Slam matches won against players younger than them:

Djokovic 94.17% (best ever)
Nadal 89.58% (second best)
Federer 84.97% (8th best)

Have the current youngsters not tailored their game enough to beat Djokovic and Nadal? :unsure:
 
RelentlessAttack said:
Since 2017, Djokovic is 3-4 vs the best player from the 2 generations after him (Thiem), who is a pale shadow of the peak big 4 in quality. Even including Thiem’s younger years, they’re 2-2 in slams, with Thiem winning their next most important match (2019 ATP Finals). Food for thought
Click to expand...
Djokovic struggles with Thiem only at RG, where Thiem is objectively great (4 straight editions losing only to Djokodal in finals/semis).

He won 94.17% of Grand Slam matches against players younger than him. Others are not even close.
 
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Lew II said:
Djokovic suffers Thiem only at RG, where Thiem is objectively great.

He won 94.87% of Grand Slam matches against players younger than him. Others are not even close.
Click to expand...

What is Nadal’s record against players younger than Djokovic? For sure Nadal’s record is better against “NextGen”.
 
Year turned pro:
Federer: 1998
Nadal: 2001
Djokovic: 2003
Thiem: 2011

You have to go 8 years after Djokovic to find a younger player who’s truly great on even one surface. Still waiting on an all surface great
 
If you were the coach of a young player how would you tell him to tailor his game to exploit Djokodal's weaknesses? :unsure:
 
RelentlessAttack said:
Year turned pro:
Federer: 1998
Nadal: 2001
Djokovic: 2003
Thiem: 2011

You have to go 8 years after Djokovic to find a younger player who’s truly great on even one surface. Still waiting on an all surface great
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Federer is the real young new ATG that came to tennis in 2014.

Don't you see how he dominated Big4?

6-2 vs Nadal
5-0 vs Murray
6-1 vs Djokovic in minor matches

His only problem were the big matches against Nole (1-8). That serb was too good when it most mattered ;)
 
Lew II said:
If you were the coach of a young player how would you tell him to tailor his game to exploit Djokodal's weaknesses? :unsure:
Click to expand...
Nadal: Take away his time. Hit the ball flat.

Djoker: Endless variety. Keep him off balance with pin-point serving.
 
Lew II said:
Grand Slam matches won against players younger than them:

Djokovic 94.17% (best ever)
Nadal 89.58% (second best)
Federer 84.97% (8th best)

Have the current youngsters not tailored their game enough to beat Djokovic and Nadal? :unsure:
Click to expand...

Yeah the youngsters suck. You like ELO right......
Grand Slam Matches vs. Younger players with ELO> 2200

Federer = 56
Djokovic = 9

You bought up something similar a while ago - https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...m-losses-to-under-21-yo.664067/#post-14131587
 
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Lew II said:
Federer is the real young new ATG that came to tennis in 2014.

Don't you see how he dominated Big4?

6-2 vs Nadal
5-0 vs Murray
6-1 vs Djokovic in minor matches

His only problem were the big matches against Nole. That serb was too good ;)
Click to expand...

Shows how weak the field was. I argue that Nadal and Murray were past their best by early 2014/late 2013 respectively, this helps prove my point. 2015-present, unprecedentedly weak era
 
RelentlessAttack said:
Shows how weak the field was. I argue that Nadal and Murray were past their best by early 2014/late 2013 respectively, this helps prove my point. 2015-present, unprecedentedly weak era
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Circular argument. Is Federer too good or is the field too weak? Impossible to answer therefore irrelevant.
 
Excluding matches against each other, Big3 all have a better win percentage against players younger than them than they do against players older than them.

vs older / vs younger:

Federer 88.1% / 91.4%
Nadal 87.1% / 93.0%
Djokovic 88.7% / 94.2%


So is it really an advantage to be younger or is it just Djokodal being too good? :unsure:
 
Djokovic lost to a clay specialist on indoor HC with his #1 ranking on the line, and then nearly lost to him again at his pet slam. Meanwhile, Nadal still swats Thiem away like a fly at RG, despite Thiem being much better on clay than on hard.

Slam finals lost to non tier 1 ATGs:
Federer - 1 (Del Potro)
Nadal - 1 (Wawrinka)
Djokovic - 4 (Murray x 2, Wawrinka x 2)

Slam finals lost on your best surface
Federer - 3 (Djokovic x 3 on grass)
Nadal - 0
Djokovic - 4 (Nadal x 2, Murray, Wawrinka on HC)

Clearly the problem is lack of great younger competition in this weak era.

Also, Nadal GOAT
 
mike danny said:
Toni pretty much lays out the value of match-ups. Nadal is simply a more difficult match-up for Federer than he is for Djokovic. No shame in admitting that. If Djokovic was raised to play with a one-hander, this discussion wouldn't even take place.

Fed was simply unlucky to have his worst match-up turn out to be an ATG himself, which is unique in tennis history. Djokovic's worst match-up, Stan, did not turn out to be an ATG.

So Nadal would tell you it is easier to play Federer, while someone like Stan would tell you it is easier to play Djokovic.
Click to expand...
Since when is a 19-6 lead for Djokovic his worst match-up?
 
ForehandCross said:
Toni has been consistent with one thing since 2005, he likes and respects Federer's game a lot.

And one thing that he never misses while describing his game is to add "effective" to "beautiful"


I remember him once being asked whose game he thought was aesthetically best, he of course mentioned Federer but called his beautiful game deceptive and said something along the lines of how it makes people overlook it's lethality.




As for his opinion on GOAT or BOAT , I don't for a second believe that Rafael or Rafael's team doesn't believe he is the GOAT/BOAT.Just like Djokovic Entourage or Federer's team does.

Tony is downplaying Rafael.


As for Djokovic, Toni has seen it first hand how difficult it was for team Rafael to come up with a plan. Djokovic for me, is the most complete player of 2000s tennis. No wonder it's hard to make a plan against him.
Click to expand...
I - internally and externally - debate whether Novak is more complete than his two great rivals, or equally complete, but more balanced - from wing to wing. For example, you rarely see him run around his BH to hit a forehand - not the case for Roger or Rafa. To me, this is one of the reasons that his game looks more clinical, and not as spectacular.
 
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