Toni says yesterday: "Federer is GOAT without any doubt"

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
Toni Nadal: 'Federer is the GOAT, he is favourite to win Wimbledon title'
16 Jun 2017 -by Gatto Luigi

Toni Nadal assured his nephew Rafael's presence in Wimbledon is not doubtful. The world no. 2's mentality is to go as far as possible in the third Grand Slam event of the season: 'If he plays like he did in Paris I think he has chances to win,' Toni said.

'From 2011, year where he played the final, never played well there. But it was basically due to knee issues and when you cannot move well with legs in Wimbledon you struggle to play. If we go there is because we have chances to win.

Otherwise we would have fewer motivations. We believe the main favourite to win the title is Federer. Then others like Murray or Kyrgios, but if Rafa plays like at Roland Garros he can try to win.' About Federer's loss to Haas, Toni admitted how he was 'surprised that he lost.

It's because Federer has not been playing for a while and it affects a little bit. In Rafael's case it's different. This week he will rest, next week he will practice in Mallorca and the other one we will organize some exhibition matches so that we can compete.' Speaking about the decision not to play any tournament before Wimbledon, Toni said that "Rafael played more matches (49) than expected and we believe he needs to rest.' Toni finally commented about the subject of GOAT.

Who is the greatest player ever, Federer or Nadal? 'Federer without any doubt. It's true, Rafa won more Masters 1000 titles, but Federer is above him in terms of weeks spent as world no. 1 and Grand Slam titles won."

http://www.**************.org/news/news/Rafael_Nadal/44451/toni-nadal-federer-is-the-goat-he-is-favourite-to-win-wimbledon-title-/

 

Just-do-it

New User
Although Federer and Nadal competed around the same time when slams were the biggest measure for both and Federer has the edge, I just don't think it's fair to compare Federer's 18 slams with past players because back then players didn't know that slams were going to be the only argument otherwise they would have played more AOs, perhaps less tournaments per year to focuse on the slams, less doubles, etc. So it's hard to say GOAT when comparing with the Borg era or Laver era, although Federer certainly has a case regardless. Like I've read many times on internet, it's really when Sampras broke the slam record that it got promoted as (almost) the sole benchmark for greatness. But it certainly almost punishes everyone that came beforehand cause players didn't know that the slams were eventually going to be the only thing that matters. But even today, it feels reductive to just focus on the slams, otherwise might as well eliminate the rest of the tournaments and 90% of the tour. lol
 
Although Federer and Nadal competed around the same time when slams were the biggest measure for both and Federer has the edge, I just don't think it's fair to compare Federer's 18 slams with past players because back then players didn't know that slams were going to be the only argument otherwise they would have played more AOs, perhaps less tournaments per year to focuse on the slams, less doubles, etc. So it's hard to say GOAT when comparing with the Borg era or Laver era, although Federer certainly has a case regardless. Like I've read many times on internet, it's really when Sampras broke the slam record that it got promoted as (almost) the sole benchmark for greatness. But it certainly almost punishes everyone that came beforehand cause players didn't know that the slams were eventually going to be the only thing that matters. But even today, it feels reductive to just focus on the slams, otherwise might as well eliminate the rest of the tournaments and 90% of the tour. lol
Fed has great stats in all tournament levels, though. GS record, YEC record, ATP 1000 3rd place not too far from Djokodal, ATP 500 2nd place closely behind Nadal, ATP 250 2nd place behind Muster. Certainly the most illustrious career in the Open era. Pre-Open is fairly difficult to compare properly.
 
It is not as if uncle is stating anything earth-shattering...

It's a bit like saying, "You know, that water stuff... it may be the most vital thing around."

Not suggesting he's not profoundly wise, of course! Came to that conclusion at the get-go, and re-affirms his stance on the other end. ;)
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
Like I've read many times on internet, it's really when Sampras broke the slam record that it got promoted as (almost) the sole benchmark for greatness.
Well, I've read many times on the Internet that Hitler is living in Argentina with Eva Braun. :eek: If the Internet is your criterion of judging the worth of majors, you might want to read something serious on the subject. It wasn't Sampras at all who pioneered this mindset, it was primarily Lendl in 1984, though McEnroe, Edberg and Becker also freely discussed in the 80's that majors were the end all and be all. Borg even said this in 1982, when he walked away because of burn out, but also because he didn't think he could win majors anymore.

Pete passed Emerson in 1999 and this was a good 15 years since slams were accepted as the primary criterion of tennis greatness.

I do agree that pros skipped the AO until Lendl really made a push to win it, even on grass at Kooyong. But anyone who watched the grass play in AO can confirm those courts played nothing like Wimbledon. Wilander never made it past the Wimbledon QF's yet trounced Lendl in the AO final in 1983 - on grass.
 

clayqueen

G.O.A.T.
This is interesting, Toni says:
"Otherwise we would have fewer motivations. We believe the main favourite to win the title is Federer. Then others like Murray or Kyrgios, but if Rafa plays like at Roland Garros he can try to win.' About Federer's loss to Haas, Toni admitted how he was 'surprised that he lost."

No Djokovic!
 

clayqueen

G.O.A.T.
Although Federer and Nadal competed around the same time when slams were the biggest measure for both and Federer has the edge, I just don't think it's fair to compare Federer's 18 slams with past players because back then players didn't know that slams were going to be the only argument otherwise they would have played more AOs, perhaps less tournaments per year to focuse on the slams, less doubles, etc. So it's hard to say GOAT when comparing with the Borg era or Laver era, although Federer certainly has a case regardless. Like I've read many times on internet, it's really when Sampras broke the slam record that it got promoted as (almost) the sole benchmark for greatness. But it certainly almost punishes everyone that came beforehand cause players didn't know that the slams were eventually going to be the only thing that matters. But even today, it feels reductive to just focus on the slams, otherwise might as well eliminate the rest of the tournaments and 90% of the tour. lol
Good point. It's also ironic that slams are not even ATP Events.
 

Mack-2

Professional
But Federer sucks on clay how can he be GOAT? To be honest, there is no GOAT as Just-do-it has pointed out.
Explain to me how Federer sucks on clay? According this statement, everyone but Nadal sucks on clay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Just-do-it

New User
Federer doesn't suck on clay, he just ran into the clay GOAT. If Federer wins Wimbledon and the US Open, 20 slams, will he be the GOAT then?
This is not a real argument, that's like saying if Nadal didn't run into hardcourt GOATs Federer and Djokovic, and grass GOAT Federer, he would have 3 AO, 3 USO and 5 Wimbledon. Lol

I think it's fair to say that both Federer and Nadal are all surface players. Nadal shouldn't be punished because his clay resume is so big. It is big compared to almost anyone else and anywhere.
 
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GabeT

Legend
Well, I've read many times on the Internet that Hitler is living in Argentina with Eva Braun. :eek: If the Internet is your criterion of judging the worth of majors, you might want to read something serious on the subject. It wasn't Sampras at all who pioneered this mindset, it was primarily Lendl in 1984, though McEnroe, Edberg and Becker also freely discussed in the 80's that majors were the end all and be all. Borg even said this in 1982, when he walked away because of burn out, but also because he didn't think he could win majors anymore.

Pete passed Emerson in 1999 and this was a good 15 years since slams were accepted as the primary criterion of tennis greatness.

I do agree that pros skipped the AO until Lendl really made a push to win it, even on grass at Kooyong. But anyone who watched the grass play in AO can confirm those courts played nothing like Wimbledon. Wilander never made it past the Wimbledon QF's yet trounced Lendl in the AO final in 1983 - on grass.

I have never once heard a pro say that winning Slams is all that matters. That argument only exists in online forums.

In the real world what I have heard pros say, over and over, is that they want to be number 1. That is the overriding concern. Even Fed last year said he'd love to be number 1 again but that was a more difficult goal than winning another slam.

And Toni says it right there in the OP. What separates Fed from Nadal are the greater number of Slams AND the greater time spent as number 1.
 
S

Stupendous1HBH

Guest
Time for clayqueen to retire from TTW. There is no sense in going on at this point.

GG!
 

RickDeckard

New User
It is not as if uncle is stating anything earth-shattering...

It's a bit like saying, "You know, that water stuff... it may be the most vital thing around."

Not suggesting he's not profoundly wise, of course! Came to that conclusion at the get-go, and re-affirms his stance on the other end. ;)
Now you are going to the other extreme. Yes Federer is the GOAT, as of now, but not by much, and it's still quite open. You sound like Federer=GOAT is the unchangeable fact and is set in stone or something, while you are overlooking the fact that Rafa has 5 years on Federer. Give Rafa some time, man. Also Federer is the third most successful player since 2008, the year when the other 3 members of the big 4 kind of emerged on the biggest scene, so your arrogance is out of place here.
 

MLRoy

Hall of Fame
Toni Nadal: 'Federer is the GOAT, he is favourite to win Wimbledon title'
16 Jun 2017 -by Gatto Luigi

Toni Nadal assured his nephew Rafael's presence in Wimbledon is not doubtful. The world no. 2's mentality is to go as far as possible in the third Grand Slam event of the season: 'If he plays like he did in Paris I think he has chances to win,' Toni said.

'From 2011, year where he played the final, never played well there. But it was basically due to knee issues and when you cannot move well with legs in Wimbledon you struggle to play. If we go there is because we have chances to win.

Otherwise we would have fewer motivations. We believe the main favourite to win the title is Federer. Then others like Murray or Kyrgios, but if Rafa plays like at Roland Garros he can try to win.' About Federer's loss to Haas, Toni admitted how he was 'surprised that he lost.

It's because Federer has not been playing for a while and it affects a little bit. In Rafael's case it's different. This week he will rest, next week he will practice in Mallorca and the other one we will organize some exhibition matches so that we can compete.' Speaking about the decision not to play any tournament before Wimbledon, Toni said that "Rafael played more matches (49) than expected and we believe he needs to rest.' Toni finally commented about the subject of GOAT.

Who is the greatest player ever, Federer or Nadal? 'Federer without any doubt. It's true, Rafa won more Masters 1000 titles, but Federer is above him in terms of weeks spent as world no. 1 and Grand Slam titles won."

http://www.**************.org/news/news/Rafael_Nadal/44451/toni-nadal-federer-is-the-goat-he-is-favourite-to-win-wimbledon-title-/
Later on that day, they hooked "Uncle Toni" to a polygraph, and it blew up.

"Federer's the favorite to win Wimbledon," is said to take the pressure off his nephew, even if it's true. And he qualified "GOAT" as number of slams and weeks at #1. I know you're a very smart person, since I agree with most of your posts. So, I'm sorry if I'm stating the obvious to you (but you know there are plenty of Roger fan boys who are oblivious): Roger's got 5 years on Rafa. I have no idea about the number of weeks each has at #1, so I don't know if Rafa can catch him. That isn't a consideration to me, anyway. But Nadal could catch up, and pass Roger -- as Toni knows. And, yes, I am psychic. ;^)B
 

dh003i

Legend
But Federer sucks on clay how can he be GOAT? To be honest, there is no GOAT as Just-do-it has pointed out.
That's one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen on TT. Only slightly less ridiculous and perhaps no less ridiculous than saying 2-time Wimbledon winner Nadal sucks on grass.
 

dh003i

Legend
it certainly almost punishes everyone that came beforehand cause players didn't know that the slams were eventually going to be the only thing that matters
Yes, but Borg, McEnroe and Lendl all placed enormous emphasis on the Majors, Connors too. The idea that none of them would have been very pleased to have broken Emerson's record or that none of them thought of it sounds ridiculous. if they didn't think of it, that's only because they were too far away from it.

However, even if we take away all of Federer's 5 AOs (!), he still has 13 Majors, just about twice as many as most of the late 70s to 80s greats, except Borg. So he still ties the record without one of his best Majors.

He also blows all of those guys away and even blows away Connors for weeks ranked #1. That is a way that we can compare across generations without worrying too much about what each generation considered most important. Federer was at the top of the game far longer than any of the 80s greats, with longevity that is thusfar similar to Connors but at a higher level.
 

octobrina10

G.O.A.T.
Toni Nadal: 'Federer is the GOAT, he is favourite to win Wimbledon title'
16 Jun 2017 -by Gatto Luigi

Toni Nadal assured his nephew Rafael's presence in Wimbledon is not doubtful. The world no. 2's mentality is to go as far as possible in the third Grand Slam event of the season: 'If he plays like he did in Paris I think he has chances to win,' Toni said.

'From 2011, year where he played the final, never played well there. But it was basically due to knee issues and when you cannot move well with legs in Wimbledon you struggle to play. If we go there is because we have chances to win.

Otherwise we would have fewer motivations. We believe the main favourite to win the title is Federer. Then others like Murray or Kyrgios, but if Rafa plays like at Roland Garros he can try to win.' About Federer's loss to Haas, Toni admitted how he was 'surprised that he lost.

It's because Federer has not been playing for a while and it affects a little bit. In Rafael's case it's different. This week he will rest, next week he will practice in Mallorca and the other one we will organize some exhibition matches so that we can compete.' Speaking about the decision not to play any tournament before Wimbledon, Toni said that "Rafael played more matches (49) than expected and we believe he needs to rest.' Toni finally commented about the subject of GOAT.

Who is the greatest player ever, Federer or Nadal? 'Federer without any doubt. It's true, Rafa won more Masters 1000 titles, but Federer is above him in terms of weeks spent as world no. 1 and Grand Slam titles won."

http://www.**************.org/news/news/Rafael_Nadal/44451/toni-nadal-federer-is-the-goat-he-is-favourite-to-win-wimbledon-title-/
I wonder why you skipped the last paragraph
:

"I don't know if they [Rafa & Fed] are the only ones, there is also Rod Laver who made history but who I don't know very well."
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Now you are going to the other extreme. Yes Federer is the GOAT, as of now, but not by much, and it's still quite open. You sound like Federer=GOAT is the unchangeable fact and is set in stone or something, while you are overlooking the fact that Rafa has 5 years on Federer. Give Rafa some time, man. Also Federer is the third most successful player since 2008, the year when the other 3 members of the big 4 kind of emerged on the biggest scene, so your arrogance is out of place here.
Nadal and Djokovic are 5 and 6 years younger than Roger. It's only natural that they have accomplished more than Roger since 2008. Roger was going to decline eventually due to age, while the other 2 were only going to get better.

I don't get the point of this argument anyway. Nadal is behind Djokovic in terms of success since 2011, when Nole emerged. Should we say Djokovic is the greater player in that case?
 

MasturB

Legend
Toni is known for making these statements if he anticipates a Fed-Nadal match. He is actually enjoying a big laugh with his nephew right now. The strategy is to get into Fed's head.
Well considering Fed's beaten Rafa outside of clay in their last 4 meetings... I guess he can try whatever strategy he can.
 

Rina

Professional
I see nothing odd with this. Anybody knows Federer is the GOAT, and obviously people who are in the business know it better than fans. Love or hate Federer, he is the best.
 

marc45

G.O.A.T.
Toni Nadal: 'Federer is the GOAT, he is favourite to win Wimbledon title'
16 Jun 2017 -by Gatto Luigi

Toni Nadal assured his nephew Rafael's presence in Wimbledon is not doubtful. The world no. 2's mentality is to go as far as possible in the third Grand Slam event of the season: 'If he plays like he did in Paris I think he has chances to win,' Toni said.

'From 2011, year where he played the final, never played well there. But it was basically due to knee issues and when you cannot move well with legs in Wimbledon you struggle to play. If we go there is because we have chances to win.

Otherwise we would have fewer motivations. We believe the main favourite to win the title is Federer. Then others like Murray or Kyrgios, but if Rafa plays like at Roland Garros he can try to win.' About Federer's loss to Haas, Toni admitted how he was 'surprised that he lost.

It's because Federer has not been playing for a while and it affects a little bit. In Rafael's case it's different. This week he will rest, next week he will practice in Mallorca and the other one we will organize some exhibition matches so that we can compete.' Speaking about the decision not to play any tournament before Wimbledon, Toni said that "Rafael played more matches (49) than expected and we believe he needs to rest.' Toni finally commented about the subject of GOAT.

Who is the greatest player ever, Federer or Nadal? 'Federer without any doubt. It's true, Rafa won more Masters 1000 titles, but Federer is above him in terms of weeks spent as world no. 1 and Grand Slam titles won."

http://www.**************.org/news/news/Rafael_Nadal/44451/toni-nadal-federer-is-the-goat-he-is-favourite-to-win-wimbledon-title-/
wait, I thought FedFans despise Toni, he's the Devil!
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
I don't see anything wrong or underhanded about what Toni said. He answered openly and honestly. People just try to look for something in everything.

If someone says something against the grain, then they branded arrogant, or egotistical, or a jerk or a lot worse. If they say something which is sincere, then there are mind games, underhanded tactics and other things. Why is it so hard just to take the statement for what it is...his opinion on who is GOAT.
 

ultradr

Legend
Toni Nadal: 'Federer is the GOAT, he is favourite to win Wimbledon title'
16 Jun 2017 -by Gatto Luigi

Toni Nadal assured his nephew Rafael's presence in Wimbledon is not doubtful. The world no. 2's mentality is to go as far as possible in the third Grand Slam event of the season: 'If he plays like he did in Paris I think he has chances to win,' Toni said.

'From 2011, year where he played the final, never played well there. But it was basically due to knee issues and when you cannot move well with legs in Wimbledon you struggle to play. If we go there is because we have chances to win.

Otherwise we would have fewer motivations. We believe the main favourite to win the title is Federer. Then others like Murray or Kyrgios, but if Rafa plays like at Roland Garros he can try to win.' About Federer's loss to Haas, Toni admitted how he was 'surprised that he lost.

It's because Federer has not been playing for a while and it affects a little bit. In Rafael's case it's different. This week he will rest, next week he will practice in Mallorca and the other one we will organize some exhibition matches so that we can compete.' Speaking about the decision not to play any tournament before Wimbledon, Toni said that "Rafael played more matches (49) than expected and we believe he needs to rest.' Toni finally commented about the subject of GOAT.

Who is the greatest player ever, Federer or Nadal? 'Federer without any doubt. It's true, Rafa won more Masters 1000 titles, but Federer is above him in terms of weeks spent as world no. 1 and Grand Slam titles won."

http://www.**************.org/news/news/Rafael_Nadal/44451/toni-nadal-federer-is-the-goat-he-is-favourite-to-win-wimbledon-title-/

LOL, Toni and Rafa has been saying these kind of stuff many times.
But they usually don't treat Federer like a GOAT in real matches.
 

Get A Grip

Hall of Fame
Toni Nadal: 'Federer is the GOAT, he is favourite to win Wimbledon title'
16 Jun 2017 -by Gatto Luigi

Toni Nadal assured his nephew Rafael's presence in Wimbledon is not doubtful. The world no. 2's mentality is to go as far as possible in the third Grand Slam event of the season: 'If he plays like he did in Paris I think he has chances to win,' Toni said.

'From 2011, year where he played the final, never played well there. But it was basically due to knee issues and when you cannot move well with legs in Wimbledon you struggle to play. If we go there is because we have chances to win.

Otherwise we would have fewer motivations. We believe the main favourite to win the title is Federer. Then others like Murray or Kyrgios, but if Rafa plays like at Roland Garros he can try to win.' About Federer's loss to Haas, Toni admitted how he was 'surprised that he lost.

It's because Federer has not been playing for a while and it affects a little bit. In Rafael's case it's different. This week he will rest, next week he will practice in Mallorca and the other one we will organize some exhibition matches so that we can compete.' Speaking about the decision not to play any tournament before Wimbledon, Toni said that "Rafael played more matches (49) than expected and we believe he needs to rest.' Toni finally commented about the subject of GOAT.

Who is the greatest player ever, Federer or Nadal? 'Federer without any doubt. It's true, Rafa won more Masters 1000 titles, but Federer is above him in terms of weeks spent as world no. 1 and Grand Slam titles won."

http://www.**************.org/news/news/Rafael_Nadal/44451/toni-nadal-federer-is-the-goat-he-is-favourite-to-win-wimbledon-title-/
Hmmm, your link doesn't work, so I can't see this in the original. Have trouble beleiving it, or trouble beleiving some of the context of the comment has been removed.
However, if true, Toni prob said it to keep Rafa humble. He's fired soon anyway. LOL
 

Get A Grip

Hall of Fame
I wonder why you skipped the last paragraph
:

"I don't know if they [Rafa & Fed] are the only ones, there is also Rod Laver who made history but who I don't know very well."
Thanks. I thought there was selective editing going on.

Liar, liar ... Beatles fan.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
He's just getting his nephew (who thrives on being considered the underdog) psyched before Wimbledon.

People read too much into statements from players/coaches/commentators. They don't really have as much weight as advertised and quite often turn out to be just plain wrong.
 

Semidios

Semi-Pro
Yeah right.Federer with just 1 FO,who is not even top 5 on clay in the open era, never held the four slams at the same time.No stand alone record of most titles at any slam.So much for the so called goat.
 

Tennisanity

Legend
Yeah no doubt this is just mind games. They didn't like that Rafa was the overwhelming favourite at AO17 and want to reverse that here.
 

dh003i

Legend
Yeah right.Federer with just 1 FO,who is not even top 5 on clay in the open era, never held the four slams at the same time.No stand alone record of most titles at any slam.So much for the so called goat.
Yeah, he only shares the records for most at Wimbledon with Sampras (7) and at the USO with Connors and Sampras (5), and trails Djokovic and Emerson (6) by 1 at the Australian Open (5). What a shame.
 
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