Too good for 4.0, not good enough for 4.5?

[Hokiez]

I'm having this conundrum. I lost only a single match at 4.0 during the regular season to a guy who went undefeated in singles (11-0) and aside from that, have not lost a singles match against a 4.0 this year, even my tier of our club tournament beating a 4.5 in the final (I got trounced by the eventual champion in the first round). However, step up to the 4.5 level and at least at singles, I get smoked. I beat lower half 4.5 players who typically play doubles but against the guys who normally play singles, it's usually 2-2 or 3-3. Perhaps it's just my club (our 4.5 team went to sectionals) and our 4.5's are disproportionally good. I'm a bit screwed if I get bumped as I would essentially be left without a team. 3.5 to 4.0 seems to have quite a bit of overlap but there seems to be a chasm between 4.0 and 4.5.

Anybody else out there in a similar position?

 

[Nanshiki]

You were too good for 4.0 and you're just not quite good enough for 4.5...

Them's the breaks. I'd suggest working to bump up your game.

 

[nkbond]

In my area, same thing. 4.5 is the top level, so former college players, teaching pros, etc. participate at that level. 4.0 is way closer to 3.5 in most instances than it is to 4.5. 4.0s are mostly, like me, recreational players w/ no formal backgrounds. 4.5s (at least on the better teams) usually have experience like college, junior ranking, teaching pro, etc. It sucks, but as long as 4.5 is the top level, that's where the top players will play. And being a 4.0 who is a decent recreational player who gets bumped to 4.5, in a word, sucks,

Wait till next year when the USTA is opening up league play to 17-yr olds (that's right, they are bumping the 19-yr age requirement to 18, meaning you can play the year in which you turn 18). 3.5 and 4.0 singles is going to be littered w/ high school senior players. Not exactly what USTA league tennis is all about, IMO...

I think the solution is to bump and enforce the self-ratings so that 5.0 becomes a viable option w/ more participation.

 

[Tennisman912]

hakiez,

It is like that pretty much everywhere. There is a pretty big jump from good 4.0 to good 4.5 as you have experienced. Nothing you can do but work on your game and improve until you are competitive at 4.5. Play both if you can find a 4.5 team who needs a player. Being much more consistent and pretty solid all around is what it takes to be competitive at 4.5.

It will take some adjustment, as all your good shots at 4.0 don’t faze the 4.5 guys. You just have to raise your game to remain competitve.

Good luck

TM

 

[heninfan99]

In my area, N. NJ., there's not enough players for a 5.0 league. So many 5.0 are kinda forced to play as 4.5s hence the big jump from 4.0. I even know a part-time coach that plays as a 4.0. I'm sure it will be a fun challenge for you to move up. I guess it's really hard if you're top of the heap at 4.5. There's really no options above that.
Maybe self rating is to blame for the chasm. Not sure. Opening a can of worms but I think people playing down has warped USTA leagues. Sounds like its time for you to move up and lose for a while till you get better.

 

[Hokiez]

Seems like a common problem. Same here in VA, nearly all the teaching/club pros are 4.5 who have played for years. I've played for now my 4'th year. Also here there is no viable 5.0 leagues, only 4 teams who play each other twice and most of the players are a couple of 5.0's and better 4.5's. Even our local club challenge tournament, the 5.0 bracket is nearly forfeited by most of the clubs or the pro's do double duty. Ah well, I'll just hope I stay at 4.0 as I like playing and if I get bumped, I'm pretty much done outside of social tennis as I won't have a team to play for. It does get old though to play and realize you're "that guy" who's accused of sand bagging.

Ah well, at least it's a common problem, not a unique one. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Richard Pur]

Seems like a common problem. Same here in VA, nearly all the teaching/club pros are 4.5 who have played for years. I've played for now my 4'th year. Also here there is no viable 5.0 leagues, only 4 teams who play each other twice and most of the players are a couple of 5.0's and better 4.5's. Even our local club challenge tournament, the 5.0 bracket is nearly forfeited by most of the clubs or the pro's do double duty. Ah well, I'll just hope I stay at 4.0 as I like playing and if I get bumped, I'm pretty much done outside of social tennis as I won't have a team to play for. It does get old though to play and realize you're "that guy" who's accused of sand bagging.

Ah well, at least it's a common problem, not a unique one. Thanks for the feedback.

Join the party. I put out a thread "Just got bumped to 4.5" a while back expressing the same concern. It really depends on your priorities in life. For me at 46 years old with 7 and 10 year old kids and my body breaking down, I don't have it in me right now to play 3-4 times a week and keep up or elevate my game to the 4.5 level. I was only playing once every week or 2 weeks at 4.0.

If you're younger, and tennis is a priority, you're more equipped to take on the challenge.

If you do get bumped, the key would be trying to find a 4.5 team that is willing to take on a weaker player (only for now hopefully). Look at the weaker 4.5 teams in the district. Maybe they will take you on the team. Otherwise, there may be combo teams available. Good luck.

Rich

 

[kylebarendrick]

I'd argue that losing to good 4.5 players 2-2 or 3-3 indicates that you are ready to play 4.5, especially since you dominate at 4.0.

It should be true at any level that when you get bumped up, you go from being a strong player at the lower level to being a weak player at the higher level. Most people that get bumped then need to find a team that will give playing time to a weaker player. It happens to people bumped from 3.0 just as it happens to people bumped from 4.0.

 

[LuckyR]

I'm having this conundrum. I lost only a single match at 4.0 during the regular season to a guy who went undefeated in singles (11-0) and aside from that, have not lost a singles match against a 4.0 this year, even my tier of our club tournament beating a 4.5 in the final (I got trounced by the eventual champion in the first round). However, step up to the 4.5 level and at least at singles, I get smoked. I beat lower half 4.5 players who typically play doubles but against the guys who normally play singles, it's usually 2-2 or 3-3. Perhaps it's just my club (our 4.5 team went to sectionals) and our 4.5's are disproportionally good. I'm a bit screwed if I get bumped as I would essentially be left without a team. 3.5 to 4.0 seems to have quite a bit of overlap but there seems to be a chasm between 4.0 and 4.5.

Anybody else out there in a similar position?

Huh? Maybe I'm missing something. You essentially can beat everyone at 4.0

You beat half of the 4.5 guys, what about this picture isn't expected?

 

[smoothtennis]

I'm having this conundrum. I lost only a single match at 4.0 during the regular season to a guy who went undefeated in singles (11-0) and aside from that, have not lost a singles match against a 4.0 this year, even my tier of our club tournament beating a 4.5 in the final (I got trounced by the eventual champion in the first round). However, step up to the 4.5 level and at least at singles, I get smoked. I beat lower half 4.5 players who typically play doubles but against the guys who normally play singles, it's usually 2-2 or 3-3. Perhaps it's just my club (our 4.5 team went to sectionals) and our 4.5's are disproportionally good. I'm a bit screwed if I get bumped as I would essentially be left without a team. 3.5 to 4.0 seems to have quite a bit of overlap but there seems to be a chasm between 4.0 and 4.5.

Anybody else out there in a similar position?

Sounds exactly like what it is to me. What about all the 3.5's that win most 3.5 matches, but lose to the top half of 4.0's? Same thing I assume for a whole bunch of folks who play competitively.

If you think about it, there are only a small percentage of players that can beat all the people in their level 11-0 in match play. Then I mean...how can you expect to beat the top 4.5's right now?

Do you think you are maxed out? It may feel like it, but I'll bet if you are good enough to win 11-0 at 4.0, you have the foundation and skills to keep improving. I would look forward to playing great players every week! C'mon, enjoy the ride.

 

[goober]

Huh? Maybe I'm missing something. You essentially can beat everyone at 4.0

You beat half of the 4.5 guys, what about this picture isn't expected?

I think his conudrum is that he won't be able to play 4.5 league tennis because he will not be good enough to play against teams #1 and #2 singles players. No team will take him. If he is older and doesn't have enough time to improve because of work/kids well then he is stuck.

But of course there are alternatives-

1. Start his own 4.5 team

2. Play tourneys/flex leauges

3. Play nonUSTA leagues.

I will have the same problem if I get bumped, but it won't stop me from playing tennis. I'll just seek alternate ways to play other than USTA leagues.

 

[GPB]

Yeah, there are plenty of options other than USTA leagues. Check out 1stserve.com in your area and see what they offer, for example.

 

[LuckyR]

I think his conudrum is that he won't be able to play 4.5 league tennis because he will not be good enough to play against teams #1 and #2 singles players. No team will take him. If he is older and doesn't have enough time to improve because of work/kids well then he is stuck.

But of course there are alternatives-

1. Start his own 4.5 team

2. Play tourneys/flex leauges

3. Play nonUSTA leagues.

I will have the same problem if I get bumped, but it won't stop me from playing tennis. I'll just seek alternate ways to play other than USTA leagues.

OK, I can buy that. I thought he was saying that there was a black hole between 4.0 and 4.5 that he had fallen into unexpectedly.

 

[CyberInferno]

I will have the same problem if I get bumped, but it won't stop me from playing tennis. I'll just seek alternate ways to play other than USTA leagues.

Of course, after an unsuccessful season when you get bumped, you can always appeal to the USTA to lower your rating (which they seem to do when they think it's fair).

 

[Hokiez]

I think his conudrum is that he won't be able to play 4.5 league tennis because he will not be good enough to play against teams #1 and #2 singles players. No team will take him. If he is older and doesn't have enough time to improve because of work/kids well then he is stuck.

But of course there are alternatives-

1. Start his own 4.5 team

2. Play tourneys/flex leauges

3. Play nonUSTA leagues.

I will have the same problem if I get bumped, but it won't stop me from playing tennis. I'll just seek alternate ways to play other than USTA leagues.

That's it exactly. My club has probably 75 3.5 players, 30 4.0 players and perhaps 12 4.5 players. The 4.5 team has 4 VERY good singles players (former college players and former 5.0's) and even long-standing 4.5 players on the low end see little to no play. A bumped 4.0 who can beat some of the bottom half 4.5's would never get to play and there aren't enough people to form a separate team by any stretch.

I have no doubt I could play 4.5 within a year or two. I'm only 33 and have only played for now my 3rd full season and can beat about 1/2 the guys on the 4.5 team. Unforunately I'm not as strong in doubles yet since I hadn't played doubles much until this year (somehow I have a 10-1 record in 8.5&7.5) so my options for playing 4.5 doubles would be limited until I practice a great deal more.

Hopefully I'll stay at 4.0 for a while and maybe I'll just play doubles next year in league play to get more practice.

 

[Railbird]

I'm having this conundrum. I lost only a single match at 4.0 during the regular season to a guy who went undefeated in singles (11-0) and aside from that, have not lost a singles match against a 4.0 this year, even my tier of our club tournament beating a 4.5 in the final (I got trounced by the eventual champion in the first round). However, step up to the 4.5 level and at least at singles, I get smoked. I beat lower half 4.5 players who typically play doubles but against the guys who normally play singles, it's usually 2-2 or 3-3. Perhaps it's just my club (our 4.5 team went to sectionals) and our 4.5's are disproportionally good. I'm a bit screwed if I get bumped as I would essentially be left without a team. 3.5 to 4.0 seems to have quite a bit of overlap but there seems to be a chasm between 4.0 and 4.5.

Anybody else out there in a similar position?

It is a problem , 4.0 league play is 4.0's and 4.5's, sounds like you are a 4.5 beating 4.0's . 4.5 leauge play is 5.0 and 5.5's so your basically drawing dead against the 5.5's and still losing to the 5.0's but instead of getting 3 games you might win 5-7 games in the whole match. Sounds about right. 5.0 leauge is 6.0 and 6.5 guys. 3.5 leauge is 3.5 and 4.0 guys. I an expert at this stuff as A. a former usta captain and B. a proffesional atp tennis gambler. I often predict exact score of leauge matches and atp events.

 

[innoVAShaun]

HokieZ,

What part of VA are you from?

But it sounds just like this area. But our leagues for men top off at 4.0. Yes we have the occasional college player that sneaks through. But once guys get bumped up to 4.5, they're either stuck or forced to protest back down (if USTA accepts it). One 4.5 guy I know drives up to NOVA 2-3 weekends a season just to play on a 4.5 league. Some just wait their 3 years (2 years for seniors) and just re-self rate themselves.

It was a huge jump for me from 3.5 to 4.0. It took me 2 years of playing 4.5 local events to start appearing competitive in USTA 4.0 local leagues. It's beginning to look bleek for me to even hang with the 4.0s. i've been struggling with injury and have children on the way. But oh well, I play for fun everywhere else. The absence of intense competition will just turn me back into the "love for the game" player i use to be.

 

[Fedace]

I seen this problem alot in 4.0 guys. i would occasionally play the 4.5 guy thinking i am going to get a good match and i get 6-2 win easy, and they tell me they just moved up to 4.5. anyway, if you do get bumped, then go ahead and challenge yourself by playing there for a full year. USTA 4.5 teams are always looking for players cause there are much fewer players as you move up the level.

 

[Hokiez]

I'm in the Richmond area. I would love to play on a 4.5 team to improve, but it's really not an option. I might, might get to play in one match, in doubles, if at the end of the season the match doesn't really matter. The 4.5 team at my club is very strong and want to advance to districts so even guys who have played 4.5 for a while hardly get playing time. I'm sure I could join another club with a 4.0 team like mine (we're more in it for the drinking) but at 4.5, but I'm not willing to drive 45 minutes just to play tennis.

 

[LuckyR]

That's it exactly. My club has probably 75 3.5 players, 30 4.0 players and perhaps 12 4.5 players. The 4.5 team has 4 VERY good singles players (former college players and former 5.0's) and even long-standing 4.5 players on the low end see little to no play. A bumped 4.0 who can beat some of the bottom half 4.5's would never get to play and there aren't enough people to form a separate team by any stretch.

I have no doubt I could play 4.5 within a year or two. I'm only 33 and have only played for now my 3rd full season and can beat about 1/2 the guys on the 4.5 team. Unforunately I'm not as strong in doubles yet since I hadn't played doubles much until this year (somehow I have a 10-1 record in 8.5&7.5) so my options for playing 4.5 doubles would be limited until I practice a great deal more.

Hopefully I'll stay at 4.0 for a while and maybe I'll just play doubles next year in league play to get more practice.

So basically in your area, only the top half of the players in a rating get to play on a team. That is sad.

 

[goober]

So basically in your area, only the top half of the players in a rating get to play on a team. That is sad.

Well I don't see why he couldn't form a 4.5 team with a bunch of lower half 4.5s and strong 4.0s. What are all the lower half 4.5s doing? Just sitting around not playing tennis? Sure the team would probably lose most of its matches, but you will get lots of playing time.

 

[feistyrudegal]

Where and when did you hear of this and is this happening for all sections? and when will it take affect?

 

[Fedace]

Where and when did you hear of this and is this happening for all sections? and when will it take affect?

That must be fun. top HS kids that play #1,2 or 3 spots can play USTA 4.5 even. That should be GREAT to see all the Cheaters from HS litter the field of USTA tennis. not that adults don't cheat but these HS kids will give new meaning to League cheating.:?

 

[robby c]

USTA National enforced it's rule in '97 that no team can advance to playoffs without having played in a 3-team local league. At that time, most 5.0 teams from the smaller cities could only field one team so that districts(state) was their local league. With that option taken away, those teaching pros, ex-Div 1 players, and Nationally ranked ex-Juniors started self-rating at 4.5 just to play leagues. This hurt the small college, good high school, and state ranked ex-juniors. It's vital to small clubs that their pros lead by example(5.0 is the logical place), and its more fun to travel as a group to playoffs with each ability level represented.
The USTA ruined the balance at the upper levels of local leagues, and only they can fix their mistake. Common sense would be to allow exceptions to the mandatory 3 team local rule at the 5.0 level.
Robby C

 

[nkbond]

Where and when did you hear of this and is this happening for all sections? and when will it take affect?

Heard it from local and state coordinator in Alabama. What I remember hearing was that it was a USTA change, in effect for 2009 leagues. If I misheard, which is always a possibility, it would be a southern section change. I am positive about the date though, 2009.

 

[NLBwell]

Well I don't see why he couldn't form a 4.5 team with a bunch of lower half 4.5s and strong 4.0s. What are all the lower half 4.5s doing? Just sitting around not playing tennis? Sure the team would probably lose most of its matches, but you will get lots of playing time.

I agree with this. If you don't feel like you have to win many matches but want to get play against 4.5 players make a new team of other 4.0s and 4.5s who want to do this. I bet there are more players than you know of that would join your team because there are always some guys who try to get on a team and can't find one.