Too much topspin?

FiReFTW

Legend
So ive had a few guys tell me this already, that im spining the ball to much and that the ball is jumping extremely high and they have problems with it, and arguing that its hard to play such balls, and I should hit more flat, specially during warmup.

And mind you they have a problem even at start when you start casual with not alot of racquet speed.

And when I say its normal and pro players have huge amounts of spin, they say only Nadal spins the ball that Federer and other players hit flat.

So I made a short clip of a warmup with my coach just to show, and tell me if you think im spining the ball too much lol, it seems normal, and pro players spin the he*** out of the ball too.

Btw these balls are old and may not jump as high, but still, if you look at the technique and arc and all, it seems like a normal warmup (specially start of warmup) with smooth easy strokes, don't see any issue with too much spin, but maybe thats just me.

Thoughts?

 

FRV2

Semi-Pro
Tell them to suck it up. You do get a lot of net clearance, which tells me you are hitting with a lot of spin, but I don't see what's wrong with that.
 

TheIntrovert

Hall of Fame
Lmao what?! You can do whatever you want. If they can’t handle the spin, that’s their issue. You’re there to warm up and practice as much as they are. Gosh I’ve never heard people complain of such a thing.
 

samarai

Semi-Pro
u hit them as u wish . only thing i cant tolerate during warm ups is if people try to hit winners to the corners or intentionally do drop shots.
 

Morch Us

Semi-Pro
If someone asks to change strokes during warmup, usually it should be the opposite. Flatter strokes create more errors and winners, which is not really much helpful during warmup. Higher trajectory brings more time per shot, consistent depth and less errors, which is all helpful for better warmup.

Maybe time to find new partners (assuming you are still doing co-operative warmup, and not trying extreme depth or extreme spin).

I should hit more flat, specially during warmup.
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
There was a post about some WTA pro claiming her male hitting partner not hit that much topspin as it’s not what she faces on tour ;)
If you want to make it easier for them, go lighter, go shorter, but don’t alter the core of your preferred stroke.
 

Morch Us

Semi-Pro
:) I wondered about that too when reading the post. But the video does not look like anything extreme, so I will give him a benefit of doubt that it is probably not an effort to brag.

Real talk, Is this a humble brag about how much spin you got on your forehand?
 

StANDAA

Legend
lmao, as long as you’re playing by the rules, never ever let anyone complain about your style if it works for you. Their problem that they don’t get to return comfortable low medium pace balls that they please.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Real talk, Is this a humble brag about how much spin you got on your forehand?
No I swear its been like 4 people already that commented that, thats why I wanted to see what other people think, and I even get comments in warmups when you can clearly see im swinging casual and relaxed.

Last time after i played a match the guy after said its st*pid to play like this ur ball bounces so high that you cant play tennis like this.

And just this last day a guy i started to hit play with lately who also commented a few times about it got pissed even at mini tennis start of warmup and said can you at least f*** not spin the ball so much at mini tennis?

He also said im gonna fk up my wrist and elbow thats why nadal is injured so much cuz hes the only one that spins the ball, everyone else hits flat they only spin when on the run on defense
 

bitcoinoperated

Professional
The only time there is too much spin is when they drop short.

A warmup is to get your stroke warmed up not some alterna-stroke to give them balls they want. Maybe they should warm up with a ball machine.
 

BallBag

Semi-Pro
No I swear its been like 4 people already that commented that, thats why I wanted to see what other people think, and I even get comments in warmups when you can clearly see im swinging casual and relaxed.

Last time after i played a match the guy after said its st*pid to play like this ur ball bounces so high that you cant play tennis like this.

And just this last day a guy i started to hit play with lately who also commented a few times about it got pissed even at mini tennis start of warmup and said can you at least f*** not spin the ball so much at mini tennis?

He also said im gonna fk up my wrist and elbow thats why nadal is injured so much cuz hes the only one that spins the ball, everyone else hits flst they only spin when on the run on defense
You need some better hitting partners then. That looks like an easy warm up unless those guys never see that kind of ball. Do those guys keep up in a match or is this just the best you have around?
 

FiReFTW

Legend
You need some better hitting partners then. That looks like an easy warm up unless those guys never see that kind of ball. Do those guys keep up in a match or is this just the best you have around?
They are decent players, play for 10 years+ but they dont rly have modern strokes or techniques, no spin no kick serves etc
 

FiReFTW

Legend
And just to make things clear i dont mean match play, i dont give a f*** about what ppl say about match play. I swing much faster than in this vid and get much heavier spin and dont care at all about what others say.

Im askin specificaly about mini tennis and warm up and so, since it seems to bother them here, but i dont see it being extreme amd i dont get how they dont like this amd would rather have me crush balls and miss every 2nd ball vs getting alot of balls back to hit, i rly dont get this.
 

dman72

Hall of Fame
Some people just don't like loopy shoots when hitting. There's nothing any less legitimate about them than flat lasers.
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
i dont get how they dont like this amd would rather have me crush balls and miss every 2nd ball vs getting alot of balls back to hit, i rly dont get this.
If you start this they’ll say you need to tone down and hit softer and with more safety, meanwhile feeling good because you are such a pitiful UE machine...
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Some people just don't like loopy shoots when hitting. There's nothing any less legitimate about them than flat lasers.
yeah but when watching any juniors warm up here or even pro players they all hit alot of net clearance and specialy at start they start control swinging and relaxed and loose.

For my logic isnt it better to get alpt of balls to hit in a warmup vs hitting fast flat lasers and missing every 2nd or 3rd ball?
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
If people are straight up telling you that it's hard for them to play your balls, you're clearly doing something right and should keep doing it.
yes, this is what I was trying to understand about his question.....seems they are giving him ques he is going in the right direction with things, although maybe tone it down in the warm up for 2 reasons. I thought the net clearance in the OP looked about like it should for rally shots behind the baseline and he could actually fire up a little bit more topspin.
 

BallBag

Semi-Pro
They are decent players, play for 10 years+ but they dont rly have modern strokes or techniques, no spin no kick serves etc
You might be a bit of a Warm-up Hero if you can hit those guy off the court in casual hitting but then have trouble with them in a match.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
I thought the net clearance in the OP looked about like it should for rally shots behind the baseline and he could actually fire up a little bit more topspin.
Interesting, in matches and points i hit with much less clearance I think but much more rhs and more pace/spin, maybe when im home i show a few points from todays training so you can see, but def much less clearance, this extreme clearance is just at start of warmups but they have a problem with both, however i dont rly care what they say about match play, but I am a bit bothered that they are frustrated about the warmup because my goal is to give them alot of balls to hit, i hate someone blasting balls in warmup also and making error after error.
 

Dan R

Semi-Pro
I don't think you are spinning it too much, but they may still have a point about the warm up. The warm up is a courtesy to your opponent your job is to warm them up, and their job is to warm you up. That means both players should be cooperating. If you watch the pros that's what they do. You don't see them BS'ing around - hitting balls their opponent can't get, or playing games during the warm up. If your opponent is struggling with balls your hitting during the warm up then you're not cooperating. Save the heavy stuff for the match.

Just my opinion on this.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
You might be a bit of a Warm-up Hero if you can hit those guy off the court in casual hitting but then have trouble with them in a match.
Warm up hero? What do you mean?
Usually in warmups they tend to blast balls but in a match play completely different.
I hit alot of winners and force alot of errors but struggle alot with making too many mistakes and double faults specially in key points, so i tend to lose alot of games for st*pid mistakes and im quite nervious and need alot of mileage still during point play, but im working on that atm.
 

jga111

Hall of Fame
According to him only nadal ppays spin others hit flat, they only hit spin on the run.
The only flat shot you get in the men’s game these days is the attacking bullet high to low. Otherwise they play with spin and power. Nadal just takes it to a different level. Back in the day it was different
 

BallBag

Semi-Pro
Warm up hero? What do you mean?
Usually in warmups they tend to blast balls but in a match play completely different.
I hit alot of winners and force alot of errors but struggle alot with making too many mistakes and double faults specially in key points, so i tend to lose alot of games for st*pid mistakes and im quite nervious and need alot of mileage still during point play, but im working on that atm.
That's exactly what a warm-up hero is. Someone who looks great in warm-up but then doesn't compete as well. I'm not saying its a bad thing, sounds like you have a good coach and you are making amazing progress. So keep doing whatever you're doing. You might just be stuck playing against those guys until you are doing better in match play. Maybe hit with more juniors?
 

5263

G.O.A.T.
Interesting, in matches and points i hit with much less clearance I think but much more rhs and more pace/spin, maybe when im home i show a few points from todays training so you can see, but def much less clearance, this extreme clearance is just at start of warmups but they have a problem with both, however i dont rly care what they say about match play, but I am a bit bothered that they are frustrated about the warmup because my goal is to give them alot of balls to hit, i hate someone blasting balls in warmup also and making error after error.
I don't see this as extreme at all and at the US Open this week, we will see most of the ATP using a similar clearance when behind the baseline. This net clearance with more power and topspin will still come down in the court and kick up nicely to create errors and short balls.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
That's exactly what a warm-up hero is. Someone who looks great in warm-up but then doesn't compete as well. I'm not saying its a bad thing, sounds like you have a good coach and you are making amazing progress. So keep doing whatever you're doing. You might just be stuck playing against those guys until you are doing better in match play. Maybe hit with more juniors?
Yes my practice level is 10 times my match level.

Just last day me and coach played triangle and 8 drills if you know them?

Triangle she moves me left and right, fh to bh non stop.

8 drill one hits Cc and one ddl and then switch.

Anyway im progressing with these drills, this last time was the best yet, i was constantly making alot of exchanges and these are balls from movement and on the run and my balls were hit very strong, she said theres no difference between the ball i was hitting and the ball of her u18 juniors in terms of pace and mine have alot more spin (mind you junior girls not boys obviously..)

But thats practice, in a match i cant hit 1/5th of that many exchanges and with 70% of the pace.

But im gonna get there, i lack mileage, thats why we started playing more points now and shes finding me people to play so i start to play alot from now to next summer and get in alot of match play.

I also had a practice with one u18 female girl of hers and it was very good lots of exchanges and strong balls.
But if i would play that girl in a match she would crush me for sure.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Thoughts - turn to the side even in warm ups. You just stand there, and it’s a lazy habit that can creep into matches.

I don’t think you are generating that much spin to where someone decent should complain. You will know when you hit with a lot of spin because good players will say “heavy spin, love it” or something like that. Good players want to hit with a player who generates a lot of top, as long as they are consistent.
 

Goof

Semi-Pro
u hit them as u wish . only thing i cant tolerate during warm ups is if people try to hit winners to the corners or intentionally do drop shots.
My movement is my biggest strength, so I actually like it when a first-time opponent does that in a warmup before a competitive match. That way I can set the tone that I can get to and deal with anything they can throw at me. :)
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
Weird looking contact point.
Indeed. Possibly because much of the racquet lag is going in to going down rather than back

Yeah we told @FiReFTW to look at his contact posture earlier with handle significantly above racquet head:

I think it's associated with pulling up through the contact rather than extending/releasing and letting racquet head flip forward into the ball while executing ISR to help proper WW swing. Now with the grip drifting more than a full bevel from original "Extreme Eastern"...
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Yeah we told @FiReFTW to look at his contact posture earlier with handle significantly above racquet head:

I think it's associated with pulling up through the contact rather than extending/releasing and letting racquet head flip forward into the ball while executing ISR to help proper WW swing. Now with the grip drifting more than a full bevel from original "Extreme Eastern"...
No clue, im not even thinking about my grip, are u sure its western? And idk why my racquet is turned down at contact either.
 

rkelley

Hall of Fame
FWIW...

Your fh looks great.

In a cooperative rally, if they're complaining about your spin then you need to find better people to hit with. Generally the same in mini tennis, though there was one guy I used to hit with who would take a high speed swing at the ball, just all up. The ball was slow like it was supposed to be but had stupid amounts of spin. It is mini tennis - you're supposed to be helping your partner. It was typical for this guy though.

Roger Federer hits with insane amounts of ts. He hits closer to the base line and on the rise more often than Nadal, but their swing near contact is very similar. Male pros in general play tons of spin. Men's tennis is a high spin game. Less so with the women, though that's changing.
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
No clue, im not even thinking about my grip, are u sure its western? And idk why my racquet is turned down at contact either.
Well, I won’t say nothing more, last time we quit at you trusting your coach and your coach not allowing you to listen to forum advice :p I just got confused by the grip/racquet angle on the video recalling what you posted previously regarding your grip.
PS I like the shape of your shots, so this stuff works basically. Wonder how your lower penetrating shots look like.
 

FiReFTW

Legend
Well, I won’t say nothing more, last time we quit at you trusting your coach and your coach not allowing you to listen to forum advice :p I just got confused by the grip/racquet angle on the video recalling what you posted previously regarding your grip.
PS I like the shape of your shots, so this stuff works basically. Wonder how your lower penetrating shots look like.
Yea I just checked and its more or less semi western, but yeah, I was sure I was using extreme eastern before, but I guess its hard to know what your actually doing haha.

I will check my point footage and see if I can find lower shots, I hit lower and more aggressive during points, will get back at you if I find some.
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
Yea I just checked and its more or less semi western, but yeah, I was sure I was using extreme eastern before, but I guess its hard to know what your actually doing haha.

I will check my point footage and see if I can find lower shots, I hit lower and more aggressive during points, will get back at you if I find some.
I also remember you posting some practice video with discussion of forehands spinning in to bounce a bit short. Rather strong grip might explain those low and spinny balls, well, at least contribute.
 

Dragy

Hall of Fame
Yea I just checked and its more or less semi western, but yeah, I was sure I was using extreme eastern before, but I guess its hard to know what your actually doing haha.

I will check my point footage and see if I can find lower shots, I hit lower and more aggressive during points, will get back at you if I find some.
Also I recently paid attention to the difference between more spread pistol grip and more tight grip, and where the heel pad is placed on grip against index knuckle position (this was covered multiple times on here, but I didn’t get it fully). It appears more widespread grip on FH is associated with RF being more closed against “hammer” grip with same index knuckle position.
For example, Tsitsipas FHs look like easternish, but when you look at his index knuckle it’s true SW grip. Now consider he has his fingers pretty tight compared to other players, and his RF angle is actually very similar to Roger’s.
Your spread grip with index knuckle on at least fully 4th bevel makes for rather closed grip allowing you to hit high spin and not care about consciously closing your RF.
 

Wise one

Hall of Fame
Looks like the shots are okay to me, but your stance is awkward. You're facing the net, with stiff knees. I would slice you up until you begged for mercy.

 
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rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
Play better people. And you are very lazy with the footwork in that you should turn semi open on balls hit to you in warmup. Approx 45 degrees is what I like to see. Good compromise. That way you can get your hips into it more. Align for match strokes. If you were my kid I would be yelling at you to not be so uncaring and at the very least set your feet right.

Also the best junior and college players pretty much start the warmup on blast. Its right down the middle but no holding back. I tell my kid you should be able to walk on a court and serve up a match. No warmups. Most college matches are no warmups now anyways.



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